Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

@01micko
Will http://slacko.eezy.xyz/ continue?
Otherwise there is a link on the webpage that needs changing.....

+ http://slacko7.eezy.xyz/ ??

just for info, the archives waybackmachine has these sites copied

01micko wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:14 am

As for "Puppy Master" - that term has never sat well with me. I don't think we need a "master". I'm actually a jack of all trades and master of none (well except for my current job).

Than the info posted on the puppylinux.com needs to get changed.

List of current Puppy Linux stewards

Puppy Linux Master Steward - Mick Amadio (01micko).
Role: Appoint which distribution is considered as “Official Release”. Also responsible for puppylinux.com domain as well as main Puppy Linux distribution site in ibiblio.org

@bigpup Just saying, that's not the only thing that needs to be corrected there. Most "official" releases in this page don't match this site's definition of an official release, and some releases in the list of "unofficial" releases are more "official" than most "official" ones. IMO this site needs to be rewritten to reflect today's reality and become more inclusive.

dimkr wrote: ↑Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:43 pm

@bigpup Just saying, that's not the only thing that needs to be corrected there. Most "official" releases in this page don't match this site's definition of an official release, and some releases in the list of "unofficial" releases are more "official" than most "official" ones. IMO this site needs to be rewritten to reflect today's reality and become more inclusive.

I'm assuming this means re-organising the 'Puppy-sphere' so that only the very newest builds are considered to BE 'official', yes?

Mike.

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:35 pm

I'm assuming this means re-organising the 'Puppy-sphere' so that only the very newest builds are considered to BE 'official', yes?

No, this means two things:
1) The distinction between "official" and "unofficial" makes some Puppy family distros second-class citizens, and sometimes promotes the use of old releases that no longer work well. I think the downloads list should be re-organized so recent stable releases ("official" or not) take the top spots, while old releases nobody would recommend to new users are moved to some archive.
2) The decision what to put in that list should be more ... democratic.

dimkr wrote:

No, this means two things:
1) The distinction between "official" and "unofficial" makes some Puppy family distros second-class citizens, and sometimes promotes the use of old releases that no longer work well. I think the downloads list should be re-organized so recent stable releases ("official" or not) take the top spots, while old releases nobody would recommend to new users are moved to some archive.
2) The decision what to put in that list should be more ... democratic.

Well said, and I agree with points 1 and 2

hi all

in my opinion

everyone working together to get a new distrowatch page
demonstrates that the forum is the key to puppy management

assignment of official puppies
(and all other matters)
should be determined by nominations discussion and votes on the forum

since that is the case
everything should simply point to the forum

at the top of the forum should be

1. a section with all the current basic info about puppy (and links to additional info)

2. a section with "suggested stable releases" and download links

this would allow forum members to update the basic info about puppy
(which is always changing)
and developers to post their stable releases
(which are always changing)
without having to mess with any other page
so no one would have to keep the homepage constantly updated
which is a chore that no one really wants to take on as a life mission

i also believe that all relevant completed puppy inspired projects
should be included in the suggested stable releases

that includes
wiaks weedogs
and
fredx debian dogs

it is both foolish and illogical
to exclude alternative build methods
used to make puppy inspired distros

"it is impossible to reach such a great truth by a single path"

and thank you rockedge for providing the forum

wanderer

I'll put my two cents in...

I have been using puppy for a long time as a regular user. I always went to the home page to get new versions and information about new versions and only went to the form for information about how something worked or how to customize something.

As my current version of puppy got older I started checked the home page looking for info on new versions and saw nothing...making me wonder if anyone was making a new version.

It was only when I really starting looking on the forum that I started to see how much work was going on.

So I agree the home page should be setup to point at the forum where all the current information is. That way people like me looking for a updated version won't think puppy not be maintained.

Who actually has the control of what goes on pupplinux.com?

Who can edit it?

That really seems to be it's problem.

No one is keeping it updated.

puppylinux.com redirects to https://puppylinux-woof-ce.github.io/
puppylinux-woof-ce.github.io is a repo at https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE

you would make a pull request for your edit, as was done earlier https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=7273

have you seen the most recent commit? https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/p ... 6e0790ac4b

williwaw wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:44 am

have you seen the most recent commit? https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/p ... 6e0790ac4b

Not any more

Now there is no more "Puppy Master".

The rest is up to the community, and that's you!

hi all

i would suggest we just have puppylinux.com point to the forum

that would allow the updates to be done on the forum by forum members rather than on a complex webpage

over time we can decide how to move the info from the webpage to the forum

wanderer

01micko wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:04 am

williwaw wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:44 am

have you seen the most recent commit? https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/p ... 6e0790ac4b

Not any more

Now there is no more "Puppy Master".

The rest is up to the community, and that's you!

We already figured that out.

But who can actually edit the https://puppylinux-woof-ce.github.io/ ???

bigpup wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:54 am

But who can actually edit the https://puppylinux-woof-ce.github.io/ ???

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/p ... .io/people

williwaw wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:44 am

puppylinux-woof-ce.github.io is a repo at https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE

you would make a pull request for your edit, as was done earlier https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=7273

puppylinux-woof-ce.github.io is a repo for the source code of https://puppylinux-woof-ce.github.io/
anyone can make a PR

peebee wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:15 am

bigpup wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:54 am

But who can actually edit the https://puppylinux-woof-ce.github.io/ ???

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/p ... .io/people

This link is not working.
Get 404 not found.

bigpup wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:19 am

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/p ... .io/people
This link is not working.
Get 404 not found.

Logged in to github?

So the info here is still going to apply.
viewtopic.php?t=6247&sid=4d9e5c0f45fb09 ... 2656f886a0

I guess this needs to be a sticky topic someplace in the forum.

It is in Announcements.

I guess we could make it always the first topic.

peebee wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:28 am

bigpup wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:19 am

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/p ... .io/people
This link is not working.
Get 404 not found.

Logged in to github?

I do wonder why Puppy Linux has made it a requirement that interested Puppy users need to log in to github before being allowed to access links there. That is not a requirement of github. Very few forum distro users are probably github registered (why would they be?). I am, but that's because I use github and similar personally.

Shouldn't that restriction (re: requiring github login) be lifted? I've noticed such links being supplied on this forum before, and then, inevitably lots of users find the link won't open for them. Users can freely decide to later join github if they so wish (for example to join discussions there or, if technically inclined, create pull requests or whatever. Oh well, up to the non-puppy-masters since no master to blame. Is there a good reason why login is required simply to read information?

I guess I am the wrong person to ask; it doesn't affect me one way or the other.

I realise our devs know exactly how it all works, through long use & practice. But how many ordinary Puppy users honestly understand the arcane "ins & outs" of a global source code repository?

I have to agree with Will. Why should it be a requirement to HAVE to create an a/c, simply to be able to read stuff? Seems a bit one-sided.....almost as though - pardon the "tongue-in-cheek" response! - it were 'hallowed ground', where only the faithful should be permitted to enter!

I don't recall why, but I created an a/c there myself a couple of years ago. I don't really know why I bothered, 'cos the way the place works is like so much Greek to me.....

Mike.

I am at a loss of words here. First of all not having a "Puppy Master" or somebody with the authority to actually do real world required actions to keep all of this going just adds layers of stress for anyone who isn't the master of puppy yet is attempting to manage the Puppy Linux presence.

I am speaking from experience here. This entire presence is dependent on having someone or some well defined group taking charge of the controls.

There are challenges EVERY SINGLE DAY to keep things going smoothly and most of the problems that arise need immediate action. No discussions or voting because there is usually NO TIME to spare getting something repaired or dealing with the admin's of host providers or registrar's. And who is dealing with all the email that comes in from the entire planet, inquiring, demanding or commenting??? Is there a committee? No because there is no actual organization to lean on.

I don't agree with what @01micko is implying.

And SO I am saying get rid of the GitHub restrictions to have to be logged in to GitHub to get a freaking link to SOMETHING BEING ADVERTISED AS AVAILABLE!!!!! This fact has bothered me for a awhile because it's happened enough that I've gone to exactly where @dimkr and Co. have directed me to a woof-CE generated distro ISO and I can not just download it. Link only works if I'm logged in. What is that good for because I'm missing out on the reasoning.

@wanderer No. Not removing the redirect to the current main puppylinux.com pages and merging that into the forum. Not going to add more work load for myself changing something that already works. What I would recommend is making the web pages for the distro downloads static html hosted on the puppylinux.com server and save me of worry maintaining URL rewrites for seamless operation.

I do not have a github account but as far as I can see the entire puppylinux github site with its 25 different repositories, is open to the public.
The only thing that is not open is the “people” section, I guess because people there do not want their identity (full name e-mail etc) public.
Τhe same way that in this forum we are going by our avatar and do not have visible other personal information unless you are signed in .
To find the avatars of persons that have access or contributed to each github repository just look at the right side of the page that lists the contributors or go to the contributors page
So I really can see no good reason for the harsh words and the dismissal.

I also feel the need to point out that currently there is only 1 person working in the woof-CE internals (dimkr) and another (peebee) that updates his build recipes.
That is one of the reasons that there is such a long time without any new puppies I believe.
In the past developers where pushed away by the forum vocals.
If the last couple of developers go away, then all this discussion will be irrelevant.
In contrast there are at least 20 persons in this forum posting 1-5 messages a day, some very lengthy, so they have pleanty of time, linux experience and abilities.
May want to contribute in puppy development and building instead and who knows, THEY may become the missing puppy masters.

@retiredt00 I am talking about the links to the ISO artifacts are not enabled with out being logged in to GitHub.

I have an account and have been using GitHub for other projects before Puppy Linux but how many non-developer's interested in testing out a Puppy do have an account to a software version control service?

rockedge wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:42 pm

And SO I am saying get rid of the GitHub restrictions to have to be logged in to GitHub to get a freaking link to SOMETHING BEING ADVERTISED AS AVAILABLE!!!!!

If that was some build artifact of a development build, then yes, GitHub requires authentication to grab build artifacts. Development builds are intentionally available only as build artifacts and not as publicly available releases with release notes and an announcement, because that's what they really are: development builds for testing.

But if you have technical difficulty with download of releases (yes, releases, not build artifacts) from GitHub (like the ones @peebee publishes at https://github.com/peabee/woof-CE/releases), we can talk about this and automate upload of releases from GitHub to some other location you're more comfortable with. For example, if anyone volunteers to set up a web server with SCP credentials with permissions to upload files to the server root directory, I can automate upload of releases from GitHub to that server.

retiredt00 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:45 pm

If the last couple of developers go away, then all this discussion will be irrelevant.

To avoid surprises: this is going to change soon. My priorities are going to change in the upcoming weeks and my plan is to focus on bug fixes and polish, but no new features that go into upstream woof-CE.

@dimkr I understand the way it's setup. That makes sense and works for me. But you are not looking at this from a non-developer's viewpoint. Without this link you just posted, how many new to Puppy or new to Linux and never heard of GitHub would think of tracking down peebee's Git account to find this fork of woof-CE and look at the releases? I use GitHub enough but I never have been to this link ever before.

if anyone volunteers to set up a web server with SCP credentials with permissions to upload files to the server root directory, I can automate upload of releases from GitHub to that server.

Could probably do this and I am considering dedicating a server to be the repo to allow automated uploads of the releases. I don't think it's practical to use the root of puppylinux.com's current host server for this function but it might be an option if we are talking about a few of the actual releases.

My priorities are going to change in the upcoming weeks and my plan is to focus on bug fixes and polish, but no new features that go into upstream woof-CE

That doesn't sound so good actually on the surface. Like the bug fixes and polish but then what? The new features at this point suffice? Or is it winding down to no further advancements and these polished versions will be the last and how many have enough insight to eventually continue working on future woof-CE development?? Alarm bells are suddenly ringing here on my end.

@dimkr

SourceForge provides various upload mechanisms............
https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/documen ... anagement/

I use sftp all the time.

They also automatically provide mirrors around the world

rockedge wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:52 pm

I use GitHub enough but I never have been to this link ever before.

Links in https://puppylinux-woof-ce.github.io/download.html and https://vanilla-dpup.github.io/ point to my dpup releases, so not a lot of guesswork is needed to find my GitHub releases.

The same can be done with other releases, so I don't really see a problem.

rockedge wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:52 pm

but then what?

Puppy is a do-ocracy

peebee wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:05 pm

SourceForge

For various technical reasons, I'm not a fan of SourceForge. Sorry.

Puppy is a do-ocracy

It is.

This forum and the continued existence of the Murga forum are a result of that so I'm well versed in the theory.

The wiki is a good example. I'm hours away from removing it as in deletion. It's a hack waiting to happen but I felt like there was a lot of good information left in it. But all telemetries say almost no one uses it. Only one user ever signed on since restarting it and I've not had the registration mechanism enabled for months with no requests at all to do so. I heeded the few requests from a few to keep it on but it is not worth my efforts to keep EOL software going. Not a single page edit has occurred since 2019 so I am going to "do" and remove it. My own sentimental feelings have kept it going this long. But those faded.

so I don't really see a problem

You don't deal with the forum's email

hi rockedge
.
your massive amount of effort has kept everything going

and you have also born the expense

for this we all cannot thank you enough
.

you really are the one who has to make the day to day decisions

i was only referring to having a discussion on the forum for general direction and organization
.

in my opinion everything must be done to minimize and economize things

the forum is the key since that is the actual community

everything else is peripheral
.

the developers have to figure out how they want to develop their systems

i think it should be as open as possible to allow as many people to participate as possible

i did like the idea of a tarball that everyone could download to run on their own system

but like i said that is up to the developers
.

could the wiki page be used as the home page so any member can edit it

and thus take it off your plate
.

wanderer