Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Governor wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:30 am

@geo_c

Before I do anything, I would like to know why my drives are locked. I thought maybe it was because the boot flag was on, so I turned it off. Didn't help.

Thanks!

It's quite simple. Any file-system, while it is 'mounted', is seen by the OS as being 'locked', and 'in-use'. No great mystery there.

Mike.

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:49 pm

Governor wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:30 am

@geo_c

Before I do anything, I would like to know why my drives are locked. I thought maybe it was because the boot flag was on, so I turned it off. Didn't help.

Thanks!

It's quite simple. Any file-system, while it is 'mounted', is seen by the OS as being 'locked', and 'in-use'. No great mystery there.

Mike.

But doesn't a drive need to be "mounted" in order to be read or written to? when I try to access an unmounted drive, I get a blank field in ROX where there would be a file listing if it were mounted.

When I run Grub4dos and try to install a bootloader onto my internal NVME (SSD) drive, which has two ext4 partitions, the message I get is:

"No supported file systems found"

My current session is from a CD boot where I chose 0 savefile in the boot menu, so it ought to be a clean CD-only session, right?.

So how do I proceed from here?

Thanks!

When I run Grub4dos and try to install a bootloader onto my internal NVME (SSD) drive, which has two ext4 partitions, the message I get is:

As far as I know Grub4Dos can't be installed to an ext4 formatted partition (but I may be wrong).

Governor wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:09 pm

But doesn't a drive need to be "mounted" in order to be read or written to? when I try to access an unmounted drive, I get a blank field in ROX where there would be a file listing if it were mounted.

Yes it does need to be mounted. If you are using rox filer and click on for example /mnt/sb2 and you see a blank screen, you are viewing what would be a mount point for for a partition which is not mounted. If the partition is mounted you will see the files contained. /mnt/sdb2 would be the mount point for the partition on a drive identified as /dev/sdb2.

If your desktop has icons which shows drives attached to your computer, if you click those, an unmounted partition will be mounted and its contents displayed in your file manager (rox).

grub4dos* and grub2config can only work with Unmounted partitions which they, themselves, mount (I'm guessing in some special way) in order to write to.

Grub4dos can not be used as boot-loader on a computer employing the UEFI* mechanism. Grub4dos can not write to a Linux Ext4* partition which was created as a 64-bit file-system. That's how most Linux Operating Systems format drives/partitions when Linux Ext4 is selected.

Because many Puppys are destined for deployment to older computers that do not include the UEFI hurdle, Puppy's gparted application creates a 32-bit file system when Linux Ext4 is selected. That way, grub4dos can still be used as boot-loader for those computers.

* Grub4dos predates UEFI and 64-bit Linux Ext4 by over a dozen years. How to you attach a steering wheel to a horse? Which is why the title of shinobar (author of both grub4dos and grub2config for Puppy's) is "Grub2config replaces Grub4Dos", https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 703#p29703

Governor wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:10 pm

@geo_c

Ok, I forgot to mention that I re-booted from my new fassapup64_9.5 CD and I chose 0 (zero) so this should be a clean boot from the CD. I have not re-booted since. I don't remember if I chose "copy files to RAM" on boot, but I would not think that running programs from a CD vs. running programs from RAM would have anything to do with drives being locked.

It is a mystery why some of my drives are locked.

Well, it's not just the save, remember that when you checked Pup-SysInfo awhile back, your CD had booted the fossapup install on your SSD drive. Your SSD drive isn't locked, you can write to it. It's locked to gparted, because gparted doesn't perform partition operations on mounted drives. So in order to set that drive up again using gparted you will need to be able boot from the CD proper.

Boot from the CD again. Do you get a grub menu? And if so, what are your options? Is there a choice for "Advanced" menu? In the advanced menu you should have a choice to run in RAM, if not from the main grub menu.

amethyst wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 4:26 pm

As far as I know Grub4Dos can't be installed to an ext4 formatted partition (but I may be wrong).

I do it all the time, and I think @mikeslr answered the question as to why this is possible using gparted in puppy.

geo_c wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:04 pm

amethyst wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 4:26 pm

As far as I know Grub4Dos can't be installed to an ext4 formatted partition (but I may be wrong).

I do it all the time, and I think @mikeslr answered the question as to why this is possible using gparted in puppy.

Can you boot from the ext4 partition?

amethyst wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:30 am

Can you boot from the ext4 partition?

Yes all my computer hard drive and usb drive installs are usually one ext4 partition using legacy boot with grub4dos installed on the partition. That would be at least 14 different device/drive installs of grub booting the following systems:

fossapup64.9.5
vanilladpup9.2.17
S15pup64-22.11-RC
KLV-airedale-RC1
jackalpup-0.0
Fatdog64-811
bionicpup32

All are ext4 partitions with grub4dos and all systems boot consistently. I have a single USB stick with all 7 of these systems booting also. I'm installing grub4dos by running it from fossapup64.9.5 (except for one Toshiba 32bit machine in which I used a usb bionic32 install to run grub4dos on the Toshiba ATA drive)

These installs span a variety of computers and drives:
2 USB SSD drives
3 USB thumb drives
2 Internal SSD laptop drives ( 1 Dell, 1 HP)
6 Internal ATA laptop drives (2 Dell, 2 HP, 2 Toshiba)
1 UEFI USB hard drive

Man, I've got puppy systems installed all over the place. That's the first time I did a mental inventory. And again all using grub4dos on ext4, even used grub4dos on the UEFI drive (first partiton is ntfs for that one), though I blew that one once and recovered it: viewtopic.php?t=6051

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:49 pm

@geo_c

It's quite simple. Any file-system, while it is 'mounted', is seen by the OS as being 'locked', and 'in-use'. No great mystery there.

Mike.

Not simple to someone who doesn't know. I am having a hard time getting this.

In GParted, drives shown as locked are in use by the OS and must be unmounted before partitioning?
In Pmount, drives shown as locked are in use by a program?

There must be a difference between drives being used by the OS itself and drives the are in use by a program independent of, or separate from the OS, right?

Thanks!

Governor wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:35 pm

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:49 pm

@geo_c

It's quite simple. Any file-system, while it is 'mounted', is seen by the OS as being 'locked', and 'in-use'. No great mystery there.

Mike.

Not simple to someone who doesn't know. I am having a hard time getting this.

In GParted, drives shown as locked are in use by the OS and must be unmounted before partitioning?
In Pmount, drives shown as locked are in use by a program?

There must be a difference between drives being used by the OS itself and drives the are in use by a program independent of, or separate from the OS, right?

Thanks!

Actually it's the other way around. A lock icon in gparted means the drive is mounted. Gparted doesn't want to perform partition operations on mounted drives.

A lock icon in pmount means the OS is running from that partition and can't be unmounted for the reason the OS will crash. I suppose there might be other reasons that pmounted would show a locked partition, but I don't what they would be.

If you find a locked partition in gparted that isn't the home partition of the OS, then you exit gparted, run pmount, unmount it, then start gparted again.

Governor wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:35 pm

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:49 pm

@geo_c

It's quite simple. Any file-system, while it is 'mounted', is seen by the OS as being 'locked', and 'in-use'. No great mystery there.

Mike.

Not simple to someone who doesn't know. I am having a hard time getting this.

In GParted, drives shown as locked are in use by the OS and must be unmounted before partitioning?
In Pmount, drives shown as locked are in use by a program?

There must be a difference between drives being used by the OS itself and drives the are in use by a program independent of, or separate from the OS, right?

Thanks!

To change the filesystem, partition or re-partition, the drive needs to be unmounted and "locked" (not in use or accessible by an operating system). To make a drive ready and accessible to run an operating system, it needs to be partitioned and a filesystem created first (vfat, ntfs, ext2,3,4 etc.) To run a program the drive needs to be mounted so that the filesystem can be accessed. To use any program, you need some sort of operating system running on a partitioned drive with a filesystem and the drive must be in a working state (mounted).

geo_c wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:51 pm

A lock icon in gparted means the drive is mounted. Gparted doesn't want to perform partition operations on mounted drives.

Pmount keeps showing my external USB drives as locked, but not the internal drive I booted from. Meanwhile Gparted shows both internal partitions as locked, which I fully understand since I can't partition the drive hosting the OS.

But suppose you have the choice (which I no longer have) to copy the OS files to RAM, and you have a swap drive; wouldn't it be possible to format the main drive since the OS is operating from memory?

Governor wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:39 pm

But suppose you have the choice (which I no longer have) to copy the OS files to RAM, and you have a swap drive; wouldn't it be possible to format the main drive since the OS is operating from memory?

Have you tried this yet?:: viewtopic.php?p=74406#p74406

At the very least boot from the USB CD drive and look at grub4dos very carefully and make notes about what's available, in particular, the "Advanced Menu." If the advanced menu option is there, choose it and see if gives you another menu, and then see if that menu gives the run-in-RAM option I described earlier the linked post.

Governor wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:39 pm

Pmount keeps showing my external USB drives as locked,

I'm not much of an expert on these things.
From your screenshot it doesn't look like your usb drives are greyed out in Pmount. Can they be accessed with the "mount" button in Pmount?

A simple (perhaps pointless) question comes to mind:
could the lock icon in Pmount mean an encrypted drive?

geo_c wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:19 am

1) Boot from the CD and when the GRUB4DOS boot menu comes up choose Advanced Options. This should give you a choice of Puppy fossapup64.95 (whatever location) RAM mode. This will boot into a fresh fossapup and shouldn't be mounted in any way to any of your drives. A good way to check this is open a Rox window and look for /mnt/home, /home shouldn't be there present in /mnt, because there is no drive where the system is running, it's all in RAM. If the boot process gives you an option of pupsaves, choose option: 0, no pupsave.

2) optional: try and backup your pupsaves from the SSD drive to another drive, not your USB hard drive fromatted ntfs since you can't write to it. LIke I said above, I wouldn't necessarily trust those current pupsaves and would be more comfortable starting from a clean and fresh properly installed system. You can back them up simply by copying the pupsave files onto any other available drive that isn't locked. You'll have to mount your SSD drive first, then open it in Rox. Mount the drive you want to back up to, and copy the files (drag from one window to the other) to the backup drive.

3) Reformat your SSD drive to one ext4 partition using gparted. First create a partition table and choose msdos format. Then add an ext4 partition, and I suggest just one large one. There are various reasons to create other partitions (like swaps and other system or data partitions, but puppy can also use a swap file rather than partition, and I find it usually runs better that way.) Also one partition can save you headaches in the long run when things grow beyond where you may have expected. The partition can be shrunk with gparted later if you feel it's necessary.

I booted from my CD and chose the copy to ram option.
I don't know where to find any pupsaves.
All my drives seem to be locked. I took a screen shot to upload, but unfortunately, was unable to save it to any drive.
I was unable to re-partition my target internal drive. It says the drive is unmountable.

When I am on my death bed looking back on my life, I will see that I wasted quite literally years of my life trying to get computers to work.
What keeps me going is the fact that others seem to have somehow gotten it to work, and I really have no alternative.

Thanks!

Well, if all of your drives are locked, I would have to ask one question that has been asked a couple times in these threads.

Do you think's it's possible that at some point in time you encrypted these drives?

I don't know anything about encrypting drives, but a drive that is not mounted, and not running a system shouldn't really be locked. It should be accessible, especially if you were running a system from it previously, which by all information presented so far, seems to be the case.

Your pupsaves are on the internal SSD drive from screen shots you have posted previously. If you were able load those pupsaves before, then the drive had to be mounted.

You have a multi-variable situation going on, so the process of elimination is the only route I know to figure it out.

One final question, when you booted in RAM, did fossapup come up clean and fresh like first boot, with none of your settings saved (as is the goal here) -- meaning all the first run menus popped up, OR was it setup with your saved settings?

If booting loaded the pupsave from nvme, then that drive would be mounted. But you should still be able write to it, but not be able to unmount it.

geo_c wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:05 pm

You have a multi-variable situation going on, so the process of elimination is the only route I know to figure it out.

Really the question at this point is how to erase your internal drive install and boot soley from the CD to be able to reformat the SSD drive and re-install.

So because you said in the Thunderbird topic that you're still running from the internal drive, not only do you have to boot in RAM, it also has to be from the CD, AND not loading any pupsaves. You should be able to do that by choosing the run-in-ram mode from grub boot menu, and if later prompted to load a pupsave choose "0" no pupsave. However, if that doesn't seem to be achievable, then I would suggest maybe trying the Knoppix CD to delete all the puppy and grub files from the internal drive.

Once the hard drive is cleared of any puppy stuff, and no other drives are attached to the system. Then the hope is you can boot clean from the CD and reformat the internal drive and re-install puppy there.

So a possible procedure here would be:

1) Test the CD boot once more to see if you can choose the run-in-ram mode from grub boot menu, and if later prompted to load a pupsave choose "0" no pupsave. You can check pupsysinfo to see where the system is running from, and if there are any pupsaves loaded, etc.

2) If that test is successful, we can go from there with a new procedure.

3) If that test is unsuccessful, and you find you're still running from the internal drive, then we can try the erasing puppy from it procedure.

geo_c wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:21 pm

geo_c wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:05 pm

You have a multi-variable situation going on, so the process of elimination is the only route I know to figure it out.

Really the question at this point is how to erase your internal drive install and boot soley from the CD to be able to reformat the SSD drive and re-install.

So because you said in the Thunderbird topic that you're still running from the internal drive, not only do you have to boot in RAM, it also has to be from the CD, AND not loading any pupsaves. You should be able to do that by choosing the run-in-ram mode from grub boot menu, and if later prompted to load a pupsave choose "0" no pupsave. However, if that doesn't seem to be achievable, then I would suggest maybe trying the Knoppix CD to delete all the puppy and grub files from the internal drive.

Once the hard drive is cleared of any puppy stuff, and no other drives are attached to the system. Then the hope is you can boot clean from the CD and reformat the internal drive and re-install puppy there.

So a possible procedure here would be:

1) Test the CD boot once more to see if you can choose the run-in-ram mode from grub boot menu, and if later prompted to load a pupsave choose "0" no pupsave. You can check pupsysinfo to see where the system is running from, and if there are any pupsaves loaded, etc.

2) If that test is successful, we can go from there with a new procedure.

3) If that test is unsuccessful, and you find you're still running from the internal drive, then we can try the erasing puppy from it procedure.

I simply do not understand how Puppy OS can be running from my internal drive when I boot from the CD and choose the copy to ram option. As I said before, this can only be due to a programming error on the CD.

Can anyone explain this? I doubt it, but let me ask this:.
Suppose I download and install a fossapup64_9.5 image file to a thumb drive. Would the same (programming) error be embedded in the image file that is apparently embedded in the iso?

BTW, where can I download an official verified fossapup64_9.5 image file that I can install to a thumb drive?

I can try the Knoppix CD, or maybe my EasyOS thumbdrive to boot with and re-partition my internal drive (from FAT32 to ext4) and remove all files from the drive. This is really pathetic, that I have to do this, IMO.

I haven't tried Konppix except to boot from it, but it looked a little sparse compared with Puppy and has a commercial Chromium browser as standard. EasyOS was far worse than Puppy and had a typical commercial FF browser as standard. And all these dozens of times I am rebooting requires a re-configuration because my settings do not stick anywhere or to anything, even though it always tells me my settings are saved. But, how can settings be saved when booting from a CD and copying to RAM?

Thanks!

Governor wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:15 pm

I simply do not understand how Puppy OS can be running from my internal drive when I boot from the CD and choose the copy to ram option. As I said before, this can only be due to a programming error on the CD.

no, I don't think it is. Although anything is possible with the number drive formats out there. It could be that some firmware or driver is missing from fossapup64.9.5. It's not a bug. I've done probably 100 installs using the fossapup64.95 iso. No one has ever seen your error.

Can anyone explain this? I doubt it, but let me ask this:.
Suppose I download and install a fossapup64_9.5 image file to a thumb drive. Would the same (programming) error be embedded in the image file that is apparently embedded in the iso?

In the unlikely event it is missing something like a driver or firmware to address your particular SSD drive, I suppose. Again it's not a bug. The easiest way to install fossa and most pups is downloaded the iso, format the target drive, copy the relevant system files to the drive, and run grub4dos. But you're not at that phase yet, because you haven't followed the process of elimination to it's conclusion..

BTW, where can I download an official verified fossapup64_9.5 image file that I can install to a thumb drive?

I gave you a link, and I believe you said you downloaded it and burned a new CD. Is that not the case? I presumed that new burn was what you've been booting from.

I can try the Knoppix CD, or maybe my EasyOS thumbdrive to boot with and re-partition my internal drive (from FAT32 to ext4) and remove all files from the drive. This is really pathetic, that I have to do this, IMO.

Certainly if you can boot EasyOS use that.

I haven't tried Konppix except to boot from it, but it looked a little sparse compared with Puppy and has a commercial Chromium browser as standard. EasyOS was far worse than Puppy and had a typical commercial FF browser as standard.

The only reason for Knoppix (or Easy) is to delete your internal hard drive. You shouldn't be connecting to the internet or need to browse internally with it all. Every major browser available can be run from a portable available on the forum or installed through a package manager. The only reason to include a browser in a pup distro is to get things started.

And all these dozens of times I am rebooting requires a re-configuration because my settings do not stick anywhere or to anything, even though it always tells me my settings are saved. But, how can settings be saved when booting from a CD and copying to RAM?

This circular questioning is not helping. If you're reading my posts carefully, at this point in time you shouldn't even be considering saving your settings. Why are you trying to doing do that? Your objective is to get a boot from your hard drive that actually works. I've been paying close attention to what you say and post, and unless I'm missing it, you are booting grub from a USB CD drive into a fossapup installation on your internal SSD drive. And the bottom line is: It's FUBAR.

So, I can't help you until you take your SSD internal drive out of the picture completely, and we can look at it from a system running in RAM, establish that it can be formatted and files written to it. Then and only then, would I begin to troubleshoot installing a system of any type or flavor, and booting from it, and from it alone involving no USB or external help. That's the only way I know to eliminate all the variables that could be causing this confusion.

geo_c wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:21 pm

geo_c wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:05 pm

You have a multi-variable situation going on, so the process of elimination is the only route I know to figure it out.

Really the question at this point is how to erase your internal drive install and boot soley from the CD to be able to reformat the SSD drive and re-install.

So because you said in the Thunderbird topic that you're still running from the internal drive, not only do you have to boot in RAM, it also has to be from the CD, AND not loading any pupsaves. You should be able to do that by choosing the run-in-ram mode from grub boot menu, and if later prompted to load a pupsave choose "0" no pupsave. However, if that doesn't seem to be achievable, then I would suggest maybe trying the Knoppix CD to delete all the puppy and grub files from the internal drive.

Once the hard drive is cleared of any puppy stuff, and no other drives are attached to the system. Then the hope is you can boot clean from the CD and reformat the internal drive and re-install puppy there.

So a possible procedure here would be:

1) Test the CD boot once more to see if you can choose the run-in-ram mode from grub boot menu, and if later prompted to load a pupsave choose "0" no pupsave. You can check pupsysinfo to see where the system is running from, and if there are any pupsaves loaded, etc.

2) If that test is successful, we can go from there with a new procedure.

3) If that test is unsuccessful, and you find you're still running from the internal drive, then we can try the erasing puppy from it procedure.

Nothing else has worked. What is the erasing puppy procedure?

Thanks!

Governor wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:19 pm

Nothing else has worked. What is the erasing puppy procedure?

Thanks!

Okay,

1) If you have successfully booted EasyOS from a USB thumb drive in the past, then boot it up. See if your internal SSD drive comes up on the desktop as an icon, click on it or run pmount to mount it (or whatever mounting utility is available in EasyOS, I haven't used @BarryK's system.)

2) If you are able to successfully mount the drive, then look for these files on it:

adrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
fdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
zdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
initrd.gz
vmlinuz

3) The above files are the complete fossapup system minus a bootloader. Delete them. If it's possible that there are copies in more than one location on the drive, delete them all.

4) If you happen to have grub installed on the SSD drive, that may also cause confusion. On the drive, look for these files:

grldr
menu.1st
menu-advanced.1st
menu-[some date].1st

5) If you have any files on the SSD drive labeled "fossapup64save-" delete those also.

6) At this point it's time to shut down EasyOS and remove the USB thumb drive.

7) Insert your USB CD drive and try to boot the fossapup64.9.5 CD. It would help to try and make some notes of what happens, any significant screen messages. If that boot is successful, you should be running a clean fossapup system from the CD. No other drives will be mounted. To be honest, I don't think the CD drive will actually be mounted either.

8) If steps 1-7 go as planned, then report back. You could either connect to wifi while running fossapup from the CD, or use EasyOS, or another computer. Whatever works.

And if these steps are successful, you are ready to attempt an install of fossapup to the SSD drive, but let's do it one thing at a time.

I simply do not understand how Puppy OS can be running from my internal drive when I boot from the CD and choose the copy to ram option. As I said before, this can only be due to a programming error on the CD.

Can anyone explain this?

I do not know what how Puppy OS can be running from my internal drive means.

Puppy creates a tmpfs file system in ram.
copy to ram option means copy the Puppy sfs files to the tmpfs file system that is in ram.
copy the sfs files to ram is the default way that Puppy works, if you have enough space in the tmpfs file system. If you do not have enough space, then Puppy does not copy the sfs files to ram.

Either way, the sfs files are mounted and become part of the layered file system.

A save file is an ordinary file, like any other file that can be copied or moved or deleted or edited or zipped etc etc. The data in a save file is not compressed, it is byte for byte identical to the data in a hard drive partition.
A save file is not an sfs file. It will typically have a file name extension 2fs or 4fs or 4fs.

My BionicPup64 has 3 sfs files copied to the tmpfs file system, in ram.

ll /initrd/mnt/tmpfs/*sfs
-rwxrwxrwx 1 128M Feb  2  2022 /initrd/mnt/tmpfs/adrv_bionicpup64_8.0.sfs
-rwxrwxrwx 1 279M Apr 26  2019 /initrd/mnt/tmpfs/puppy_bionicpup64_8.0.sfs
-rwxrwxrwx 1  57M Apr 26  2019 /initrd/mnt/tmpfs/zdrv_bionicpup64_8.0.sfs

The normal way the Puppy works:

1) boot your machine, choosing to boot the Puppy CD.
Normally Puppy will copy the sfs files to the tmpfs in ram,
so you can take the cd out and use the cd drive for other purposes.
If you do not have enough space in the fie system in ram, it will mount the sfs files where they are, on the cd. which means you can not take the cg out and use the drive for other purposes.
If the sfs files are on the hard drive, it will copy the files from there, then unmount the hard drive.
If the sfs files are only on the cd, it will copy the
If you do not have any Puppy sfs files on the hard drive it will copy the sfs files from the cd to the ram fs.
Some Pups offer to cop the sfs files to the hard drive. Or maybe it will do that automatically. I do not remember exactly.

2) It will mount the sfs files and the save file and make a layered file system. with the writable file system in the save file on top of the layered fs. Like this:

save.3fs
pup.sfs

3) When you shut down, If you do not have a save file, Puppy will ask if you want to create a save file.
All the changes you that were made to the system will be copied from the ram file system to the save file.

When you boot the next time, Puppy will find and mount the save file, with all your changes.

Of course, if you choose the boot loader option to boot not using the save file (pfix=ram), It will boot without any of your changes.

That is:
1) the first time you boot when Puppy shuts down (reboot or poweroff) create a save file.
2) then every time you boot Puppy, it will automatically find and use the save file.

how can settings be saved when booting from a CD and copying to RAM?

copying to RAM has nothing to do with a save file. It allows you to take out the cd and use the cd drive.

How can settings be saved when booting from a CD

The first time you boot, create a save file. You only do this once.
Every other time you boot, your changes are in the save file
If you boot without a save file (pfix=ram) your changes will be gone, until you boot using the save file again.

That is, choose the boot loader's boot normally option.
Shut down, and make a save file.
Then every time you boot Puppy, choose the normal boot option and the save file will be mounted with all your changes in it.

That is, normally you always boot choosing the normal boot option.
Do not use the boot in ram option if you want to have your changes.

A typical cd boot loader should have the option pmedia=cd
which should tell Puppy to search everywhere for the save file.

Hi @williams2, governor has things configured in such a way that the cd boots his files from his nvme internal SSD drive, and the system still thinks it's running from the CD. He posted a screenshot of pup-sysinfo here: viewtopic.php?p=73929#p73929

thoughts? I'm completely stumped about it.

Also, he is unable to perform any operations on the partition, even when he chooses run-in-ram from grub boot menu (presumably the cd, because he has no working bootloader on nvme) and chooses opton "0" no save, though I don't know if he's getting that option. It's been hard to focus the information.

above I'm suggesting and giving a procedure to delete puppy completely from his hard drive and re-install.

@TerryH
@williams2

geo_c wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:50 pm

Governor wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:19 pm

Nothing else has worked. What is the erasing puppy procedure?

Thanks!

Okay,

1) If you have successfully booted EasyOS from a USB thumb drive in the past, then boot it up. See if your internal SSD drive comes up on the desktop as an icon, click on it or run pmount to mount it (or whatever mounting utility is available in EasyOS, I haven't used @BarryK's system.)

2) If you are able to successfully mount the drive, then look for these files on it:

adrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
fdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
zdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
initrd.gz
vmlinuz

3) The above files are the complete fossapup system minus a bootloader. Delete them. If it's possible that there are copies in more than one location on the drive, delete them all.

4) If you happen to have grub installed on the SSD drive, that may also cause confusion. On the drive, look for these files:

grldr
menu.1st
menu-advanced.1st
menu-[some date].1st

5) If you have any files on the SSD drive labeled "fossapup64save-" delete those also.

6) At this point it's time to shut down EasyOS and remove the USB thumb drive.

7) Insert your USB CD drive and try to boot the fossapup64.9.5 CD. It would help to try and make some notes of what happens, any significant screen messages. If that boot is successful, you should be running a clean fossapup system from the CD. No other drives will be mounted. To be honest, I don't think the CD drive will actually be mounted either.

8) If steps 1-7 go as planned, then report back. You could either connect to wifi while running fossapup from the CD, or use EasyOS, or another computer. Whatever works.

And if these steps are successful, you are ready to attempt an install of fossapup to the SSD drive, but let's do it one thing at a time.

I tried with Fossapup, Lucid Puppy, Slacko 5.6 PAE, EasyOS, and Alpine (which asked me for a password which I know nothing about).

Finally, I was able to repartition and format the harddrive (from FAT32) using Tails, to a ext4 partition as suggested.
After that I booted the fossapup CD with copy files to RAM.
I then chose the Frugal install to the harddrive.
However, I can't boot from the harddrive and it says cannot find GRLDR.

I think I discovered the problem with booting from the CD. In Slacko there was a message "Searching for Puppy files..." It looks like the problem is when Puppy files are found on my harddrive, they are automatically loaded and the drive is locked. So, apparently it is not really booting from the CD and the CD is acting as a bootloader. From what I can gather, this a mistake. IMHO, this should definitely not be the default behavior, but an option on boot.

I have been trying to get this to work properly since Nov. 12.

Governor wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:33 pm

It looks like the problem is when Puppy files are found on my harddrive, they are automatically loaded and the drive is locked. So, apparently it is not really booting from the CD and the CD is acting as a bootloader.

yes exactly.

And now it's time for you to provide a whole lot more well thought out and presented information, as my instructions were to boot from the CD, see that it was successful and report back, not to go ahead with the install. But since you did, now tell me exactly what you did with the install -- everything, install choice, grub4dos menus, the whole nine yards.

If you don't have grld on the hard drive, you don't have a bootloader on it. So what did you do to skip that step? But don't just answer this question. Read the above paragraph carefully and address it.

For perspective, your realization about the fact that the CD boot was looking for pupsave files on the hard drive has been addressed in previous answers to your posts at least 5 times.

Just for the record, I didn't tell you to reformat to ext4, but that's a good thing anyway, because that's for the best in the end. Basically what I said to do was find the puppy files and delete them to see if you could boot fossapup from CD without loading pupsaves from the hard drive.

Either way, you're in a position to knock this out. Hasty boot decisions make for unecessary headaches though.

We still need all the info, because you will need to put a boot flag on the internal SSD before installing grub. And I want to know what kind of install you did. Can you list the puppy files present on the SSD?

edit: and it may be necessary to reformat the SSD to ext4 using gparted from fossapup. But now that you have an install on the hardrive, don't make a pupsave!

read my words carefully, they mean things...

geo_c wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:54 pm

Governor wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:33 pm

It looks like the problem is when Puppy files are found on my harddrive, they are automatically loaded and the drive is locked. So, apparently it is not really booting from the CD and the CD is acting as a bootloader.

yes exactly.

And now it's time for you to provide a whole lot more well thought out and presented information, as my instructions were to boot from the CD, see that it was successful and report back, not to go ahead with the install. But since you did, now tell me exactly what you did with the install -- everything, install choice, grub4dos menus, the whole nine yards.

If you don't have grld on the hard drive, you don't have a bootloader on it. So what did you do to skip that step? But don't just answer this question. Read the above paragraph carefully and address it.

For perspective, your realization about the fact that the CD boot was looking for pupsave files on the hard drive has been addressed in previous answers to your posts at least 5 times.

I chose "Frugal Pup - Flexible Puppy installer" from the menu and targeted my harddive. That was it. The boot flag is set.

Linux is completely new to me. I have made 75 posts and have gotten a lot of responses, so please be patient with me,
By rights, a CD boot has (or should have) nothing to do with any harddrive . . .
So, how do I prevent Puppy from loading files on the harddrive on CD boot?

Thanks!

williams2 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:49 pm

I simply do not understand how Puppy OS can be running from my internal drive when I boot from the CD and choose the copy to ram option. As I said before, this can only be due to a programming error on the CD.

Can anyone explain this?

I do not know what how Puppy OS can be running from my internal drive means.

Puppy creates a tmpfs file system in ram.
copy to ram option means copy the Puppy sfs files to the tmpfs file system that is in ram.
copy the sfs files to ram is the default way that Puppy works, if you have enough space in the tmpfs file system. If you do not have enough space, then Puppy does not copy the sfs files to ram.

Either way, the sfs files are mounted and become part of the layered file system.

A save file is an ordinary file, like any other file that can be copied or moved or deleted or edited or zipped etc etc. The data in a save file is not compressed, it is byte for byte identical to the data in a hard drive partition.
A save file is not an sfs file. It will typically have a file name extension 2fs or 4fs or 4fs.

My BionicPup64 has 3 sfs files copied to the tmpfs file system, in ram.

Code: Select all

ll /initrd/mnt/tmpfs/*sfs
-rwxrwxrwx 1 128M Feb  2  2022 /initrd/mnt/tmpfs/adrv_bionicpup64_8.0.sfs
-rwxrwxrwx 1 279M Apr 26  2019 /initrd/mnt/tmpfs/puppy_bionicpup64_8.0.sfs
-rwxrwxrwx 1  57M Apr 26  2019 /initrd/mnt/tmpfs/zdrv_bionicpup64_8.0.sfs

The normal way the Puppy works:

1) boot your machine, choosing to boot the Puppy CD.
Normally Puppy will copy the sfs files to the tmpfs in ram,
so you can take the cd out and use the cd drive for other purposes.
If you do not have enough space in the fie system in ram, it will mount the sfs files where they are, on the cd. which means you can not take the cg out and use the drive for other purposes.
If the sfs files are on the hard drive, it will copy the files from there, then unmount the hard drive.
If the sfs files are only on the cd, it will copy the
If you do not have any Puppy sfs files on the hard drive it will copy the sfs files from the cd to the ram fs.
Some Pups offer to cop the sfs files to the hard drive. Or maybe it will do that automatically. I do not remember exactly.

2) It will mount the sfs files and the save file and make a layered file system. with the writable file system in the save file on top of the layered fs. Like this:

save.3fs
pup.sfs

3) When you shut down, If you do not have a save file, Puppy will ask if you want to create a save file.
All the changes you that were made to the system will be copied from the ram file system to the save file.

When you boot the next time, Puppy will find and mount the save file, with all your changes.

Of course, if you choose the boot loader option to boot not using the save file (pfix=ram), It will boot without any of your changes.

That is:
1) the first time you boot when Puppy shuts down (reboot or poweroff) create a save file.
2) then every time you boot Puppy, it will automatically find and use the save file.

how can settings be saved when booting from a CD and copying to RAM?

copying to RAM has nothing to do with a save file. It allows you to take out the cd and use the cd drive.

How can settings be saved when booting from a CD

The first time you boot, create a save file. You only do this once.
Every other time you boot, your changes are in the save file
If you boot without a save file (pfix=ram) your changes will be gone, until you boot using the save file again.

That is, choose the boot loader's boot normally option.
Shut down, and make a save file.
Then every time you boot Puppy, choose the normal boot option and the save file will be mounted with all your changes in it.

That is, normally you always boot choosing the normal boot option.
Do not use the boot in ram option if you want to have your changes.

A typical cd boot loader should have the option pmedia=cd
which should tell Puppy to search everywhere for the save file.

I have a swap file on a separate partition on my internal harddrive..
I don't want a save file on my harddrive.
Is it possible to choose the location of the savefile on shutdown, or can it be chosen before shut down?
What I want is to have a bootable thumb drive with a savefile on it so I can update my settings each time I shut down.
I will see if I have the (pfix=ram) option.

Thanks!

Governor wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:00 pm

So, how do I prevent Puppy from loading files on the harddrive on CD boot?
Thanks!

Don't put savefiles on the hard drive.

Think about it. A CD iso is designed to boot a complete system from a CD, but there are no pupsave files on the CD, so the boot routine as defined in the stanzas of the grub menu look for a savefile to load. If it finds one I believe it will automatically load it. But if there are two, it should give you a choice.

If your goal is to boot from USB, then there is no reason to install to the hard drive. Instead install to USB. If your goal is to boot from the hard drive, then install to the hard drive. You can install to both, and the bios boot order will come into play, but depending on the stanzas in grub, it may find save files in more than one drive. In fact grub on a USB thumb drive can be configured to boot pups from any other drive, and many of us use that technique to dual boot with windows.

So, you already wasted a month on having files all over the place and getting balled up in a confusing mess. How will you prevent that from happening again?

The easiest way to run a puppy is install it to the target drive and save the pupsave on the same partition, same directory as the install. It will find the pupsave every time that way.

I was going to step you through booting from a clean CD, setting up an install on the internal hard drive, and creating a save folder. From that point you could do all kinds of other installation simply by plugging in drives.

You have forged ahead. So my work is finished. I will soon be riding off into the sunset.

Good luck. People are very helpful around here.