01101001b wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:50 am
sc0ttman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:01 pm
I did a test... Gave my bro the URL to this forum.. A long time FreeBSD user. I asked him to do the following:
1. Find the latest official release
2. Find the official build tools
3. Find the user contributed software for any specific puppy version
4. What packages are available in the base system ("built-in packages")
He failed on all four... Described the forum as "an absolute mess".
That's because you misguided him. You set him in a false quest
How on earth is it a "false quest"? .. I asked someone to go to forum find some important stuff, in a quick an efficient way...
They couldn't. Simple. Why? Cos they didn't spend half their life on the OLD forum, getting used to its terrible organisation.
In fact, I even did a jargon/glossary for him before hand.. So he knew that our "base packages" are called "builtins" etc... Even with this help/guidance he failed. I genuinely wanted to see how he'd do..
He's actually my twin brother - a clone of me, but a BSD user that didn't use the old forums. It's a perfect test.
You KNOW this forum is just the continuation of the former and you KNOW also WHY.
Should we not improve Puppy at all then? Or its websites? Shall we never try to improve anything, or talk about what it might look like?
I'm so fed up with "superheroes" wannabes pretending to take a stand allegedly for the sake of the "new users", "wind*ws users" and the like...
This is all just insults and whining. You are offering nothing of any worth at all.
Of course I care about new users.. Puppy Arcade brought in more new users than most Puplets combined..
Puppy will still continue, one way or another (or not. It's the cycle of things.)
..or not.. exactly...
sc0ttman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:01 pm
...Recruiting NEW developers, packagers, and end-users, is vital... This is what none of you seem to understand.
What you and others don't understand is that Puppy was never meant to be massively used or popular. And this talking of yours about "recruiting"...
OK, so lets try to make it less popular, harder to use, harder to find. Just to keep you happy.
If you don't like the word "recruiting", how about "welcoming" or "encouraging" ?
Should we welcome new users with good docs, clear forum, easy to get started?
Should we encourage people to submit fixes, patches, updates to the puppy codebase?
Or should we seem hostile and bitter that someone might even try? (Like you are)
... Why all this nagging of yours? You seem full of butthurt because your "proposals" for the forum were not ipso facto regarded as "superior wisdom". Or is it because you found yourself not regarded as one of those "rank-and-file members"?
This is so stupid. Read the section of this forum we are in. I am on topic.
You lot have no idea.. If i were being a dictator, you wouldn't EVER see me on the forums, I would only be on Github, changing stuff there without ever talking to the "community"... And most of you on the forums would only find out about it months after, when you downloaded a new puppy..
I'm one of the ONLY people here who bother to run ideas past people before trying to get them rolling on github... Others run off to github and "just do it" ... But I only ever get grief for it..
And AGAIN, I did not prose a structure that I would choose myself, but one that should work better for SEO, basic semantic organistion, (which BTW the Japanese Puppy Forum has done), and clearer separation between forum sections for the build tools, official releases, additional software.. just to make it easier for everyone..
And just to be clear - I don't care if you guys think I'm the least important person in "puppy world" ... Not my issue.. I'm thinking about other users ... You lot just think about yourselves.
Anyhow, IF your concern for the new users is genuine
It is... Prove otherwise mr genius.
If I didn't care about other users, why make a package manager (a lot of work) that can do the following:
- lets users create their own packages easier
- lets users create, and share, their own repos (for first time)
- lets users install third-party repos way easier than before - including PPA repos
- lets people use "wrappers" for Pkg, so they can use the `yum` or `apt` commands they're used to (i don't use them)
- offers about 5 different UI/GUI frontends, if you inc the fzf-based `pkgmenu`... (u think i use them all?)
- is still 100% compatible with the existing PPM that everyone knows and uses (i dont use PPM)
But even so, as Hitchens once said, "what can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed, without evidence".
(Unlike many of you, I use Puppy 24/7 - only ONE version installed at any time... No distro hopping, no using many pups, cos thingX works there, another pup cos thingY works there... just to avoid fixing things..
I want others to be able to do as many things in shitty old laptops and PCs as I can, thanks to Puppy. Out of the box.
it would be great if you also find the time to answer their questions now and then, because I don't remember seeing you doing it... my bad, I guess.
Now you're just being plain rude and stupid.
I've shared posts on how to build packages, host your own repo, better documentation using new man page readers.. I built the damn software that lets you do it. Don't say I don't offer anything - without Pkg Puppy would already be looking way more dated and irrelevant.
Go read up on GitHub how keen the devs are to get rid of PPM completely, and finally move over to Pkg... If you think these proposed forum section changes are a big deal, wait till PPM is replaced with Pkg...
No one devving woof-ce on github is gonna "check in" with you "forum-only" guys before they do it, FYI.
...And there's no (even slightly prominent) space on the forum to discuss it before they do, either....
Or maybe people should just do more woof-ce github changes, without appearing on forums? ....You would get the changes whether you like it or not...
Starting to get me yet??!
Should've kept in it in your pocket.