Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

moose on the loose wrote:Ideally someone who is not me should check to see if the download works for them.

electropupCD1.iso downloaded complete for me.

@wanderer Could it be that you downloaded to /root and that there's not enough space there?

Fred

hi moose on the loose and fredx
yes probably the size of the isos
will try again

hi darry tried your barebones strech
very nice

moose on the loose try corepup (made from tinycore 641)
it is made to run on 486 it should work for you

which brings me to my suggestion
since we are talking about all 32 bit deb based (or can be made deb based) systems
and not just puppy

we have

debian based - fredx busterdog
woof-ce based - many
tinycore based - corepup dcoredog
others of which i am not familiar with slitaz etc

by far the most minimal modular and easiest to work with are tinycore based

barebones for them is 9 megs (core) you can't get any more barebones than that

the iso consists of

a bootloader - can be syslinux or grub whatever
a kernal - whatever you like
an initrd (6 megs) which is the skeleton of the system
modules to add to the system (tcz which are sfs files)

and thats it

you can replace add and subtract pieces of the system
just by removing and adding them to the iso

if you convert debs to tcz it is deb based

(edit) in dcore there is a script that downloads debs and bundles them into sce
if that script could be modified to just make individual tcz
it would be a major improvement
(but way beyond me)

for all of these systems just convert the pet deb sfs or tcz to the proper format and it may work
if not you may have to fiddle with the dependencies
like i mentioned i got fredx portable firefox to work in corepup just by adding newer libs from a newer tinycore firefox

i have no dog in this race
since that is what i am working on now
and have been for a while

but

you can have an iso to work with in a few minutes
and a new iso in a few minutes more
and a new iso in a few minutes more
no need to wait for complex build systems

just something to consider

wanderer

fredx181 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:14 pm electropupCD1.iso downloaded complete for me.

@wanderer Could it be that you downloaded to /root and that there's not enough space there?

Fred

Thanks for checking.
I thought that if you stuffed your save file full it made a rude message happen so I had sort of ruled out a full save file. Still setting it up so that Downloads is actually a directory under /mnt/home is a good thing to do for this.
Maybe I should make some nifty little script that makes that happen.
I have also, from time to time, made it so that /tmp is also a directory under /mnt/home.

A few thoughts:

I may be dreaming this but it seems to me that I heard that a new kernel version used PAE if available but didn't choke if it wasn't. If so that seems a good thing to include in a 32bit version.

Ideally the distro should come with a web browser on the CD (In the ISO image) somehow.
Not everyone has fast internet and the delay in getting a basic browser can be trouble.
So far, seamonkey seems to be the least awful option. Palemoon also seems OK

Ideally the system should be usable on a 640x480 display. Some people have high-res monitors but low-res eyeballs. Most monitors will still go 640x480.

To the degree we can, stuff that doesn't need to go fast, should be scripts. For example, the help system being all HTML and firing up the web browser is a good start. My script for making it easy to add help, is the improvement on this I suggest. Some javascript games in the "fun" menu are nice too.

We may also want to define the term "works on xxx" for software as meaning you boot from the original ISO, add the "xxx" and it works with no further action. No "oh by the way you also need yyy" allowed.

well it looks like 32 bit debian stuff is alive and well

are you guys still thinking of a barebones 32 bit debian based iso
maybe with appimages

wanderer

wanderer wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:26 pm well it looks like 32 bit debian stuff is alive and well

are you guys still thinking of a barebones 32 bit debian based iso
maybe with appimages

wanderer

My thinking goes a lot like this:
On the CD (In the ISO) there is enough to boot the extremely simplified system plus a second SFS.

When booted with only the first SFS there is practically nothing but the very minimum for rescuing files off a broken Windows machine. There is only one simple background. There is nothing in the "fun" menu. No music playing or anything like that. There may not even be help in this one.
After boot a "welcome" message appears from a script that offers to load the 2nd SFS and explains a little.

When booted with the 2nd SFS included, you have what is still a fairly stripped down system but quite a few additional features are in there. Basically, things are added with a limit of it still fitting onto one CD.
This system has all the "basics" on it. Sound files and videos will play. There is some sort of web browser that can do HTTPS well enough so that the user can go get the rest from a web site if that gets set up.

From here, the system allows specialized features and a better web browser to be added etc.

hi moose on the loose

sounds interesting

the most important thing is that it works on your system

have you tried to put fredx portable firefox in it
that would be an up to date browser with no extra overhead

wanderer

Moose On The Loose wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:55 pm
My thinking goes a lot like this:
On the CD (In the ISO) there is enough to boot the extremely simplified system plus a second SFS.
...
When booted with the 2nd SFS included, you have what is still a fairly stripped down system but quite a few additional features are in there. Basically, things are added with a limit of it still fitting onto one CD.

Hi MOTL - i just booted CD1.iso (CD2.iso does not boot for me) and this is quite a nimble and flexible system.
I was surprised that i was able to mount the "ADDED sfs" by mounting "CD1" (sr0) after boot as i have previously been told that it is not possible to include extra software inside an iso - yet it certainly works here.

And i did not make a savefile.

I like the idea of a stripped system that can then immediately clickload an extra sfs from boot CD after boot.

Have you thought about starting a thread for this? This is a pup design that deserves to be used and optimised. Keen to ask further questions.

greengeek wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:40 am Hi MOTL - i just booted CD1.iso (CD2.iso does not boot for me) and this is quite a nimble and flexible system.

What happened when you tried?
You said you didn't make a save file.
CD2 presumes that you booted CD1 and followed the instructions about making a save file etc etc.
CD1 puts the ElectroPup.sfs into your /mnt/home after you made a save file and boot again
It the begs (or is it whines) about wanting the other added stuff from CD2.

I was surprised that i was able to mount the "ADDED sfs" by mounting "CD1" (sr0) after boot as i have previously been told that it is not possible to include extra software inside an iso - yet it certainly works here.

Files other than the expected ones that may be on the CD are OK.
Thus I coded a script to pick the added stuff off the CD and it seem to work.

And i did not make a savefile.

That may explain the problem

I like the idea of a stripped system that can then immediately clickload an extra sfs from boot CD after boot.

Have you thought about starting a thread for this? This is a pup design that deserves to be used and optimised. Keen to ask further questions.

I think about many things. At one point I was thinking of making a thread about all the things I changed to make 528 better including the idea of 2 or 3 SFS files.

BTW: As it is the "Help" system should adapt to whether you added 0, 1 or 2 "added" SFSs
The way it works is the help script scans the directory tree of the help and if it sees a directory with no index.html it makes one.
If there is a HTML file in the directory, it grabs the title out of it as the label in the index.
If there is a directory like "Watching_Cat_Videos", it replaces the "_" with spaces and uses that as the label.
This way, what files come in via a SFS are added to the help system.

BTW-BTW: Some of the help files are a bit of a work of art. Some are a bit short on detail.

wanderer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:43 pm hi moose on the loose

sounds interesting

the most important thing is that it works on your system

Perhaps "works and is useful" is a better standard.
I have found that some programs "work" but turn out to make life harder rather than easier.
I class MS-Word among those. I really can't fathom why people use it to make some types of documents. It really sucks at doing ordered lists.

have you tried to put fredx portable firefox in it
that would be an up to date browser with no extra overhead

wanderer

I got an old version of seamonkey to work and left it as that.
I figured getting all the basics done was the most important 1st step.

BTW: There seems to be no web browser that really get is right.
1) If the page takes a long time to actually load, Chrome says it crashed.
This shows up when your network connection is very slow so downloading a different browser is not an option.
2) There should be a "stop" button that really-really means "stop". When some page with a zillion scripts etc is loading and taking minutes or some page won't let you leave or any of 100s of other things happen, you want to be able to tell the browser to stop absolutely everything but paying attention to the user.
3) When the rendering engine sees something that is not good HTML, it should turn on some sort of marker in the user interface. I am well aware that this marker will be on more than it is off given how crappy web sites are these days.

hi moose on the loose

i do think its a good idea to start a thread for your project

i also think its a good idea to explain the project
and the changes you made to the original iso
on the thread

as i played with corepup
doing these things has helped me organize the project in my mind
and also allowed others to understand and give input to the project
which has been of immense help to me

i look forward to following your thread should you decide to start one
otherwise i will read what you post on this one

wanderer

Moose on the Loose I use Mike Walsh's seamonkey 2.48 portable with glibc 2.19 this may work on your system,

darry19662018 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:09 am Moose on the Loose I use Mike Walsh's seamonkey 2.48 portable with glibc 2.19 this may work on your system,

I am using version 2.48 hacked like the portable but built into the system.
I built it into the "stripped down" SFS
It makes for a 230M "stripped down" SFS file.
I have been thinking of removing some more stuff.
Basically it is:
rm -R Contents/usr/share/abiword-2.6
rm -R Contents/usr/lib/abiword-2.6
rm -r Contents/automake
rm -r Contents/usr/share/backgrounds_original
rm -r Contents/usr/share/backgrounds/free_3d*
rm -r Contents/usr/share/backgrounds/logo*
rm -r Contents/usr/share/backgrounds/lucid*
rm -r Contents/usr/share/backgrounds/pup-paint*
rm -R Contents/usr/share/examples
rm -R Contents/etc/bash_completion.d
rm Contents/usr/bin/ffmpeg
rm Contents/usr/sbin/get_libreoffice
rm -R Contents/usr/share/doc/get_libreoffice
rm Contents/usr/share/pixmaps/libreoffice-main.png
rm Contents/usr/share/locale/es/LC_MESSAGES/get_libreoffice.mo
rm Contents/usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/get_libreoffice.mo
rm Contents/usr/bin/htop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/htop.desktop
rm Contents/root/Startup/install-flashplayer
rm Contents/usr/sbin/flash_install
rm Contents/usr/bin/lxtask
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/lxtask.desktop
rm Contents/root/.config/openbox/*.bak
rm Contents/root/Startup/check_installed_packages
rm Contents/usr/local/bin/pcd
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/pcd.desktop
rm Contents/usr/local/bin/pprocess
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/pprocess.desktop
rm -r Contents/usr/local/baconrecorder
rm -r Contents/usr/local/decksetup
rm -r Contents/usr/local/EmbeddedBookmarks
rm -r Contents/usr/local/firewallgtk
rm -r Contents/usr/local/pcd
rm -r Contents/usr/local/filesearch
rm -r Contents/usr/local/pfind
rm -r Contents/usr/local/Pictureviewer
rm -r Contents/usr/local/pmirror
rm -r Contents/usr/local/ppg
rm -r Contents/usr/local/prun
rm -r Contents/usr/local/psnapshot
rm -r Contents/usr/local/ptag
rm -r Contents/usr/local/ptiming
rm -r Contents/usr/local/ptmtimer
rm -r Contents/usr/local/PupApps
rm -r Contents/usr/local/PupMenu
rm -r Contents/usr/local/pupradio
rm -r Contents/usr/local/quickpet
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/quickpet.desktop
rm -r Contents/usr/local/sysfreedos
rm -r Contents/usr/local/video_upgrade
rm Contents/usr/sbin/pcur
rm Contents/usr/local/bin/pmusic
rm Contents/root/my-applications/bin/AppStarter
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/baconrecorder.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/desksetup.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/getflash.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/get_libreoffice.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/Gimp-image-editor.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/PupApps.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/PupMenu.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/menumaker.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/Pictureviewer.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/pRun.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/PupApps.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/PupMenu.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/Puppy-Podcast-Grabber.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/fbpanel-refresh.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/pcur.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/pmusic.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/AppStarter.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/pupRadio.desktop
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/gexec.desktop
rm Contents/usr/bin/gexec
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/PRename.desktop
rm Contents/usr/local/bin/prename
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/gwhere.desktop
rm Contents/usr/bin/gwhere
rm Contents/usr/local/bin/ppg-gui.sh
rm Contents/root/Startup/run_fixmenus
rm Contents/usr/bin/smbclient
rm -R Contents/etc/samba
rm Contents/sbin/probediskRETIRED
rm Contents/usr/bin/screenshotbrowser.sh
rm Contents/usr/share/applications/screenshot-browser.desktop
rm Contents/opt/winemenu/*
rmdir Contents/opt/winemenu

Hi Moose On The Loose,

In the very early times of the Puppy development did Puppy begin without any ability to save somewhat . We did order a CD from Barry Kauler (yes, BK did offer long years that formidable service) or burn a CD ourself depending of the equipment. I did meet that certain BK at the forum of an early community trying to build a 1 Floppydisc graphic OS in 86-assembler . I did not really have a good equipment: 486 / 64 Mb / perhaps 4 GB on my old Book-PC made in China.

Puppy were growing fast. The iso, initially ab. 20 MB (rel. 0.4) were growing till 50 MB. It was for a long time the wall don't to exceed because of the check card CD' s (at a time where USB sticks were not available...).

but run a packed OS with 50 MB packed size on 64 MB RAM was not evident...

...but possible

opposite from other live OS Puppy did always prefer to run completely in RAM so that it was possible to load the OS first and remove it's CD and preserve the CD drive for other usages.

but in case of to lack of RAM memory size, Puppy did also work well but without free CD drive (for other purposes like listen music etc.): it did start loading itself until a certain minimal point into the RAM and wait for some keyboard or other entries. and it did hold the rest of the software by demand not out the RAM but from CD. The price for that possibility was only to accept that the CD drive was buzzy (the user did know: if Puppy gives the CD not free it is because I have to low RAM).

I suppose it continue to be the same thing today.

One of the best 32 bit Puppy's I am really use intensive is Dpup Buster without PAE with a size from more than 400 MB. josejp2424 is one of our best developpers and his Puppy's are all in the ranking for best and highest quality at the head of the ranking list. and he develop those with best software in it like Debian high compatibility through apt or synaptic, with PulseAudio because it is a MUST for modern usage of computer, with XFCE4, not such with cripple software.

my own main PC is a laptop i7 8 GB 3/4 TB with high resolution screen, USB 3.0 and 2.0 and best audio. it is more than 10 y old (and the design very older!!!)

but for my bike travelling I did buy a second latop, same supplyer DELL, for only 90 Euro including sending cost with telefon card with technical performances being about equivalent, see yourself: i5, 4 GB 250 GB with good resolution!

it is not attractive any more to develop for really aged PC's. only those already in house can PERHAPS be interesting until a certain, low, point...

the French Linux distributor emmabuntüs is a branch of the charity institution Emmaus. they work for the most poor people of the earth! they wish to offer poor people PC support with best and wide scope of software. but they did abandon 32 bit completely in newer releases (as they publish emmabuntüs since 9 y. with best actual versions of software, they are enough older 32 isos being not too old to be used: they continue to be top for the concerned PC's and can be updated through the official depositories of Ubuntu in the first years and Debian now!.

josejp2424 did yet publish to absolutely up to date ISO's with Buster, the actual Debian stable, in 32 bit (Dpup Buster with PAE, and the same without!) as well as he did add in his depository at sourceforge a 32 bit compatilibility package for the 64 bit versions (without XPCE4 and with) and a lot of other most actual software in his own depository at sourceforge and I find there are a lot of excellent Puppy's with best software for older PC's. (*1

some ISO's have only the size of 100 MB in 32 bit (Slacko 5.3; note: doesn't support ext4! HAS OWN PACKAGES DEPOSITORIES) without the included browser (is definitively to old!) and 140 MB (Quirky test version, depreciated but good! I did use it daily about 1 y !!!) /160 MB (Quirky April; HAS OWN PACKAGES DEPOSITORIES) in 64 bits:

the needs for old PC's are richly covered very small, small and actual versions depending of the hardware ressources used by the owner!

that, what would be needing, would be actualisation's *.pet's / *.sfs to reactualize the old libraries to allow the use of actual browsers with the old Isos...

it is needing to avoid the message NOT FOUND Error 440 !



(*1 also with better 32 bit Puppy's it would not be possible any more to use then with sensible software like Skype, a very important software in my eyes in countries like Afrika, South America, Indonesia etc. because no new 32 bit version will come! Emmabuntüs will not continue illusions...

dancytron wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:26 am Radky's Stretch Puppy and Buster Puppy

^ these two are indeed fantastic ... the network tool used for mounting samba shares in dpup stretch32 is the best IMHO.. dunno why the horrible YASSM is there instead in most pups...