Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Well... a bit faster now so maybe a usb3 stick, but... still slower than I am happy with... Should I install to hard disk? No thanks. I can't believe anyone here actually likes this! Like most larger Google projects has that horrible Microsoft control feel about it - analytics and tracking and so on. I don't mind using Gmail, and even a bit Google Drive, but really I expect this ChromeOS Flex I'm currently posting from to end up sucking its users into having to pay for either subscriptions to endless annoying updates to ChromeOS Flex, or find themselves using up online google resources such as google drive or whatever until they basically have no choice but to pay for most space. I may be wrong. I watch with interest...

I like to feel somewhat in control of the distro(s) I run; I feel like I have no control with this (okay so possible to parallel load or something some other Linux to install their apps, but why bother? Just install Linux per usual I say. Main thing is, sorry, this is really not my cup of tea and certainly not coffee.

@wiak - staying free for individual use is vital. Hopefully the advertising revenue will suffice. Should they want money, well I have a Chromebook I like already. Also, I disable Google Drive first up. By using Crostini's Debian apps, I save locally.

ozsouth wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 8:46 am

@wiak - staying free for individual use is vital. Hopefully the advertising revenue will suffice. Should they want money, well I have a Chromebook I like already. Also, I disable Google Drive first up. By using Crostini's Debian apps, I save locally.

Well, always good to keep an open mind as best we can so will wait and see. Would be another thread, but more interesting to me when I tried it long time back was Intel Clear OS, which I also found to be a fast distro (maybe somehow optimised for Intel processors?). https://clearlinux.org/

Additional advantage to Intel Clear was that I was able to also boot it using FirstRib initrd and thus use it as a frugal install with save on demand flexibility. Whether that stopped other aspects of it working I never tested.

I certainly don't want to knock ChromeOS Flex or even Chromebooks, but I am curious to know if there is anything about say a Chromebook that is better than can be provided by a well set up Linux distro. My son uses Chromebooks at school and could only say, well they are cheap machines to buy, but so is a secondhand laptop which can run Linux. I therefore wonder what those of you who also have Chromebooks think these machines can do better than Linux? I certainly saw nothing in ChromeOS Flex that appealed to me personally.

I do realise and accept of course that non-technical users pretty much have no idea how to install Linux and likely never will.

Apparently, only Enterprises have to pay & that's because dedicated support is included.

How much does Chrome OS flex cost?

Chrome OS Flex is free to download — full instructions here via the Chromebook Recovery Utility (Chrome) extension — and use for all users. For enterprise customers, there’s no standalone license cost compared to CloudReady, but the Chrome Enterprise or Education Upgrades are required for fleet management and support.

@wiak that was the problem!

Doing too much at the same time. But no worries I am no fan of ChromeOS at all so the install will be completed so I can say I tried it out!

Don't over look that ChromeOS's target market is schools. Apple previously dominated that market, with MS always trying to get in too. Both kept trying to fit their existing OS's to the users needs, both failed on several key levels.

You have to give Google credit for one, identify a large market, and two, building an OS from the ground up to meet the users needs. If you want a good example of target marketing and how to make an operating system hack proof, then look no further than ChromeOS.

wizard

Frankly, for me it was only EVER the software itself - the OS - that I was interested in. I never saw the point in buying dedicated hardware just to run it.....

Which led to my experimenting, on & off, with ChromiumOS over a period of years. I have to say that, fun as ChromiumOS is, ChromeOS is definitely more 'polished' & stable. Yeah, it doesn't have that freedom aspect to it that Linux has. But I run over a dozen Puppies and other Linux OSs as it is. I have the space, I have the RAM, I have the resources.....and I have the interest.

Who cares? What the hell; why not? Mind you, I'm hanged if I can figure out what all those tiny wee partitions do.....and I AM having a hard time understanding why a cloud-based OS takes up quite so much space!

(I DO get the impression that for many Puppians, Chromebooks are seen more as a way to obtain relatively cheap, new hardware for Puppy than any particular love for Big Brother..... Heh. I'm a cynical old bugger, aren't I? )

(*shrug*)

Mike.

@mikewalsh

Chromebooks are seen more as a way to obtain relatively cheap, new hardware for Puppy than any particular love for Big Brother..... Heh. I'm a cynical old bugger, aren't I?

Here in the US there are thousands of old Chromebooks available on Ebay. With a little research you can pick up a very capable model to convert to Linux. You should consult mrchromebox.tech for models that are supported since they supply the Seabios needed for USB booting. The last two I bought were Thinkpad 11e's with a quad core cpu and 4gb of ram and included the AC adapter. Cost was $25 US, including shipping, doesn't get much cheaper than that. They're small, light and have great battery life.

In case you missed my post over in Bookworm Pup64 RC, @radky 's new creation runs everything OOTB.

And, yes, now that you mention it, I have detected some cynicism in your post from time to time.

wizard

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 2:54 pm

Mind you, I'm hanged if I can figure out what all those tiny wee partitions do.....and I AM having a hard time understanding why a cloud-based OS takes up quite so much space!
Mike.

Well I just spent a good 5 hours with my mother-in-law who I set up a chromebook for about 6 months ago. Turns out she used it twice, then a friend borrowed it and has been watching movies on it, so they decided her friend should buy her an HP with Win11 on it. Great! I had a chance to spend half a day on ChromeOS and Windows 11. So I got some "impressions" so to speak.

1) First, from what I can tell, anyone can log in using their google log in credentials, and their activity is containerized and separate from anyone else who has logged in on the device.

2) Apparently, my mother-in-law's password was changed at some point, and I resorted to using the "forgot password" option, which worked to log in, but required letting it delete any local data on the machine.

3) Her friend using it to watch movies never logged in, all one has to do is use the device as a guest, which requires nothing, you get a browser and the OS features that require no local access. So you could literally pick one of these up and use it as a "netbook" in the truest sense of the word.

4) Windows 11, now that's a sore spot, It SucKS!

5) Trying to get an HP Envy 7900e printer to work on an HP elite book i7, brand new was impossible. HP insists that you install HP-smart which has to be installed from the Microsoft App Store, and it wouldn't do anything but hang. I couldn't even cancel the attempted install routine. I fooled with it a million different ways.

6) Windows 11 is slow, buggy, and dumb, I could detail specifics, like the App Store not working and different screens conflicting with each other, etc, but all in all it's everything I hate about Microsoft. Their own software doesn't work on their own OS, and settings are buried in cascading smartphone gui interfaces.

Ultimately, I factory reset the Chromebook to give to her friend, and downloaded Chrome browser on Windows 11 and set her google account to automatically log in and bookmarked all the Chrome apps, like photos and gmail that are synced to her phone.

So in other words, I set up her Win11 machine to operate like a Chromebook.

Neither of these OS's are in my future plans.

What does it give you that Debian Dog or Puppy with Chrome installed wouldn't give you if you signed up for all the Google stuff?

There could be another advantages, but for me, the main one is Privacy:

Puppy Linux is privacy-focused operating system. It prioritizes user privacy by minimizing data collection and providing users with more control over their information, but signing up for Google services typically involves sharing personal data with Google, which may be used for targeted advertising and other purposes.

As I told u, there could be other advantages, but I consider this the main one.

Cheers

dancytron wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:01 pm

What does it give you that Debian Dog or Puppy with Chrome installed wouldn't give you if you signed up for all the Google stuff?

a happy mother in law who read somewhere that you need a new machine every other year to remain safe

williwaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:18 am

dancytron wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:01 pm

What does it give you that Debian Dog or Puppy with Chrome installed wouldn't give you if you signed up for all the Google stuff?

a happy mother in law who read somewhere that you need a new machine every other year to remain safe

Well this was my conclusion after my adventures with the Chromebook and Win11 HP laptop discussed earlier. After setting up Chrome browser on Win11 to login and access all data on the cloud, I thought, "Well why use a chromebook which is limited in scope, when you can do the same thing from basically any browser on any other OS and hardware?

There's even a google app to backup your cloud data locally.

Well here's the best of both worlds - my Acer A315 has both nvme AND ssd - I can toggle boot in bios. Puppy on one, ChromeOS Flex on the other - excellent! Did have to turn off secure boot & leave vtx set in bios though.

@ozsouth :-

Well, I doubt I shall be performing that full install to an SSD after all. I've discovered a serious flaw with ChromeOS Flex; you can download files to its native file-system.....but it refuses to let me move them outside the system!

I don't know if this is simply one of those "limitations" - like no updaters - inherent in running it from the USB. Is Big Brother attempting to 'force' adoption on those who try it?

I know you're supposed to be able to 'expand' the 'STATE' partition to fill the USB drive, but I notice it cannot be done from outside the OS. Do you happen to know how this can be achieved?

Mike.

@mikewalsh - the usb is very limited - basically there to check it out & use some google options.
Once installed, the whole disk is available to read/write, as is Crostini.
Flex, like standard Chromebooks, can read ext but only write to ntfs/fat & it's own system.
I can copy from install stick to full install's drive, but not write to it. Maybe they think folk will use google drive.
So I make an ntfs partition on my other usb sticks to read/write data (can't create it on the install stick).
Same with my secondary (puppy) hard drive (Flex reads ext, read/write ntfs/fat).
I tried to expand 'state' on install stick, to add 6gb - gparted can't do it. I get 'overlapping partitions' error.
Can't see how to manage it on full install either. I'm looking into it.
Some interesting reading here: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chrom ... OS-devices

@ozsouth :-

Ah! Well, it's simple enough to set-up a FAT32 "transfer" partition. I can adapt the mechanism from my "Spot-to-Root" permissions changer and do it that way for the short term, while I make up my mind what I shall do....

Yes, of course they expect you to use the Drive, but I have an in-built aversion to leaving all my files in somebody else's hands.....especially if it then involves paying them for the privilege of accessing my stuff ever after!

In all honesty, that's my only niggle. If I can get that functional, I'll be happy enough to keep it running from USB - it'll do everything I want from it, like that - and just periodically 'update' the whole thing by 'dd'-ing a new image. That'll do me. And it's not like it needs setting up every time; once signed-in, everything's just as you left it.

Thanks for the info..!

Mike.

I successfully installed xfce Thunar on Chromebook Linux. Works great!

But, is there a way to associate file types in Thunar with the Chromebook apps?

For example, so PDF's open with Chromebook Chrome web-browser, instead of trying to find an associated app inside Linux.

@johnywhy - Welcome! Glad you succeeded with thunar. Unfortunately, I think only Crostini apps will associate with it (that's the linux subsytem that comes with ChromeOS - found under Settings/Advanced/Developers). I installed Evince in Crostini to run pdfs (& installed several other .debs), by running (in a terminal) sudo apt update, then sudo apt install evince. Then I could do the association in ChromeOS's filemanager.
Other than that, you can manually edit some .desktop files (in a terminal, set root passd, then su root then cd /usr/share/applications & edit with vi).

ozsouth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:01 am

Then I could do the association in ChromeOS's filemanager.
Other than that, you can manually edit some .desktop files (in a terminal, set root passd, then su root then cd /usr/share/applications & edit with vi).

Thx for great info. How do you set association in ChromeOS's file manager?

@johnywhy - right-click on a file in filemanager then click 'open with', then click 'change default' & select desired program.

bigpup wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 8:14 am

Sick and depraved

Guilty as charged.

The ChromeOS experience reminds me of puppy. Quick and responsive, but sometimes flaky, and certain limitations.
Webpages certainly load faster, even with many tabs open, than my Windows machine.

ozsouth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 6:58 am

@johnywhy - right-click on a file in filemanager then click 'open with', then click 'change default' & select desired program.

i don't have that option. I'm using the stock Files that came with my Chromebook (i believe this is Flex).

@johnywhy - Below is a screenshot from my filemenager. By clicking on a file, 'OPEN' options appears, with 'change default' in its drop-down box.

ozsouth wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:37 am

@johnywhy - Below is a screenshot from my filemenager. By clicking on a file, 'OPEN' options appears, with 'change default' in its drop-down box.

I'm seeing that for image files, but not .docx files.

I guess that means ChromeOS has only one app that recognizes .docx files: Google Docs.

As an experiment, i installed a .docx editing app. I found the 10 MB, no-ads Aspose.Words docx reader.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... pose.words

Lo and behold, now i get the Open With menu on docx files.

Thx!

I use ChromeOS with Debian Bullseye Linux on Crostini and Android apps installed - I have two Chromebooks, an Asus Flip C302CA not officially getting ChromeOS updates but I have a separate Chrome browser (LaCros) still being updated and a second Lenovo Flex 5i Chromebook with updates until June 2030 that I bought because I didn't know about the LaCros project.

The advantage of a Chromebook is that the quality is good enough for watching TV programs and that the display is configured properly, WiFi connects properly and my printer-scanner is automatically recognized and easy to use and the Chromebook places all icons for the apps in a common launcher menu.

I found a script for Crostini using kde and it gets me an app to update Debian Bullseye (maintmenu) and another to find/update programs (Discover). From maintmenu, I activated Flatpaks and made them a priority. While Crostini allows a user to double-click a deb file to install it, the LibreOffice website offers about ten deb files when downloaded with no indication of the installation order, while the flatpak is one file with an icon in the launcher. I use LibreOffice for ods spreadsheets and OnlyOffice as a flatpak when working with Microsoft Office documents.

Contrast that with Puppy Linux, which I used for over 12 years. I had to fight to get my wireless printer to work with it and after Puppy went with automatic video display recognition, I had to abandon updating because of my crazy Benq monitor. I would have used the Flip to install Puppy but I don't need to with LaCros.

I run the same apps, a mix of Android, Linux and ChromeOS, with both Chromebooks: Character Pad (insert special characters), CherryTree, Chrome, Cog, Dictionary Pro, Discover, Double Commander (Linux File Manager), Emacs, eMap FD, eWeather HDF, Files, KOReader, LibreOffice, MaintMenu, Messages (from mobile phone), OnlyOffice, Opera, pCloud, Sigil, Stellarium, Symphytum (Databases), Telegram, TreeLine, TreeSheets, Unit Conversion, Waterfox, YouTubeMusic, Zoom.

I also have three Amazon Fire tablets, running Google Play Store unofficially. An old Fire 7 runs Styletap to give me back my old Palm Pilot apps. The other two, a Fire 10 and an 8 basically are used to browse on the Internet and read DRM-free (either bought free or stripped via Windows) ePub books (I abhore the Kindle format) via KOReader plus the Android apps that I have on the Chromebooks.

I have a dual boot laptop that I bought used. Microsoft managed to bork the Windows and I have an old version of Easy OS and Puppy on another partition. I can't get my WiFi to work with the newer versions of Easy.

@myke - Welcome (back). Nice to hear someone else's experience with Crostini. I think it's the best thing since sliced bread. I use it with a Lenovo Chromebook (pentium silver, 8gb ram 128gb emmc) - just so flexible. Then to find ChromeOS Flex runs it too - fantastic. My Acer Aspire 3 allows me to dual (toggle) boot with puppy (has 240mb ssd & 128mb nvme & F12 at startup lets me choose). Great. I now mostly do puppy stuff either to help someone or if I feel I need a challenge.

ozsouth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 11:30 pm

@myke - Welcome (back). Nice to hear someone else's experience with Crostini. I think it's the best thing since sliced bread. I use it with a Lenovo Chromebook (pentium silver, 8gb ram 128gb emmc) - just so flexible. Then to find ChromeOS Flex runs it too - fantastic. My Acer Aspire 3 allows me to dual (toggle) boot with puppy (has 240mb ssd & 128mb nvme & F12 at startup lets me choose). Great. I now mostly do puppy stuff either to help someone or if I feel I need a challenge.

^^^ Lololol!!

Mike.

@mikewalsh - I didn't express that very well. Not meaning all puppy stuff is a challenge, rather my taking on a challenge like my fossa64 series.