Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

mikeslr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:52 pm

GusCE6 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:32 am

... another chance are Wheezy based light distros like DebianDog Wheezy and Antix 13.2.
...
Are those actual Puppy Linux distros? Those are the only ones LICK can install. How does, say, DebianDog Wheezy compare to Lucid?

First, No there are no Anti-X Puppys or DebianDogs. No, Lick does not automatically create a boot-menu for DebianDogs. You'd have to edit the menu it does create.

You have a difficult problem but are looking for an easy solution. Don't wed yourself to LICK. It was developed to provide an easy way for those who only had access to a Windows operating system to obtain a functioning Puppy. Once you have a functioning Puppy you have access to its tools for putting together the two components needed to boot into other Puppys or DebianDogs: (1) The files which make up the operating system; and (2) the boot-loader and associated menu.lst/grub.cfg that will find the OSes and boot them.
I don't know how many USB-Ports the 2001 Sony Vaio has [you never identified the model]. But it certainly has at least one. The Vaio long predates the employment of UEFI booting mechanisms and the complications that brought. [Just for those who don't know, computers employing UEFI can't use grub4dos as its boot-loader]. Using Lupu or precise or whatever Puppy you now have located on the Vaio's internal drive you can create a bootable Puppy or debiandog on a USB-Stick and (setting your bios to boot USB-Ports first) boot into it.
You can test a Puppy or DebianDog on a bootable USB-Stick without jeopardizing the operating systems you have installed to the internal drive. Once you have a bootable USB-Stick, you can replace the OSes on it and edit the boot-loader's menu.lst/grub.cfg to provide for the replacement. The downside is that booting from a USB-Stick will be 10-15 times slower. Once booted, there's little difference.

From a Puppy or DebianDog on a USB-Stick, you can reverse the process: copy a Puppy’s or DebianDog’s system files to the internal drive and install a NEW BOOTLOADER to the Vaio's internal drive.
Gyrog and shinobar have published new ‘boot-installers’: Frugalpup-Installer and grub2.config. You’ll find links to them on the System Section of the Addition Software Sub-Forum. AFAIK, they can be installed into older Puppy and used by them. But I don’t think they offer anything beyond the application you already have.
All older Puppys have Grub4dos built-in. When grub4dos runs it will install the boot-loader to whatever drive/partition you select, search the entire computer for operating systems it recognizes and create a menu.lst so that on power-on you can choose between them. [Optionally, you can select to have grub4dos only search the drive it is going to be written to.] Windows is one of the operating systems it recognizes. So, you can Multi-boot Windows and Puppys.
Grub4dos’ menu.lst is a simple text file. You can create or edit it using any text-editor.
Unfortunately, the DebianDogs are not among the operating systems Grub4dos recognizes. [I think that’s also true of Frugalpup & grub2config]. You can install grub4dos and choose to have it NOT write a menu.lst. And when it does write a menu.lst before terminating it offers you the chance to edit it. Either way, you can end up with a menu.lst among whose choices offered are the debiandogs.
A grub4dos menu.lst for a Debiandogs, including Wheezy, is similar to that for a Puppy. You can obtain DebianDog Wheezy, and some older ‘Dogs’ from here, https://github.com/DebianDog/Wheezy/releases/tag/v1.0. That site also provides a lot of information.[Newer Dogs have threads on this Forum]. Having just checked the site I discovered that a recommended DebianDog installer is available. About it, I know nothing. You can ask on one of the DebianDog threads. What I do know is that included in the ISO is a text file named Examples-boot-codes.txt which provides information consistent with its title. Other examples can be found on this and the ‘Old’ forum. And, of course, you can ask.
DebianDog Wheezy may well provide a solution. But one of the first question I would ask is what would be necessary to obtain a web-browser that would work with DeviantArt.

PCG-SRX77, I believe. It does have one USB port...1.0. That could be a problem.

When you boot from a USB stick, assuming 1.0 even works, aren't you limited to whatever RAM the device itself has? In my case that would be 256MB, total.*

There would be no way then to run even Lucid and run a browser on a website like the new Deviantart, it would freeze the works up, unless what you are describing works differently- if so, how?

I'm still learning about this, and would like to modify existing browsers (e.g. Palemoon 27 SSE Linux seems a good place to start). But someone here is going to have to get me started.

* It has been suggested several times to boost the RAM of the Sony. Note that its official limit is 256MB RAM, but if if people here are certain that 512MB would work and not require a reinstall of XP AND- above all!- a 512MB chip that is the same PHYSICAL size and shape as the existing 256MB one exists and would work what the heck, I'll try it. It may at least get Basilisk 52 SSE for Windows to work faster via WINE.

Thank you here!

@GusCE6 :-

Best to put you out of your uncertainty on one thing, at least. And it's not good news, I'm afraid.

Many have recommended increasing your RAM, but it's become clear that nobody has in fact put any effort in to corroborate this. IF they had, they would have found out the following:-

Most current (-ish) laptops use what are called 200-pin SoDIMM modules. (Small Outline, Dual In-line Memory Modules). Your Vaio uses a 144-pin, SDR (Single Data Rate) MicroDIMM. These haven't been made for well over a decade, but more importantly, 256 MB was the absolute maximum data capacity these were ever manufactured in.

Sorry to burst the bubble, but at least you now know for definite.

Mike.

PCG-SRX77, I believe. It does have one USB port...1.0. That could be a problem.
When you boot from a USB stick, assuming 1.0 even works, aren't you limited to whatever RAM the device itself has? In my case that would be 256MB, total.*

No it's not a problem, you cold boot even from usb 1.0 with Plop Boot Manager, you could install it to Win Xp mbr or Linux grub, it' slower of corse then usb 2.0 but for test or install it's ok.

* It has been suggested several times to boost the RAM of the Sony. Note that its official limit is 256MB RAM, but if if people here are certain that 512MB would work and not require a reinstall of XP AND- above all!- a 512MB chip that is the same PHYSICAL size and shape as the existing 256MB one exists and would work what the heck, I'll try it. It may at least get Basilisk 52 SSE for Windows to work faster via WINE.

Thank you here!

No you don't need to reinstall Windows Xp if you expand your ram, only needed if you change the mobo wich has different chipset (Linux doesn't care it all ). Anyway the density of rams it handles depends on the chipset, you could find out your chipset type under Windows is a program called Aida64. P3 chipsets usually can handle 512 mb sd sodimm ram, you could buy even new from e-bay, i've linked few post before, but you could find usually in second hand pc store too...

Your Vaio uses a 144-pin, SDR (Single Data Rate) MicroDIMM. These haven't been made for well over a decade, but more importantly, 256 MB was the absolute maximum data capacity these were ever manufactured in.

It's wrong 512 mb sd sodimm was the maximum size, but until we don't know the laptop chipset type is safest staying with 256mb parts.

TBH, @Fenyo is right.

According to Dell, ye anciente Inspiron lappie was only capable of using a maximum of 1 GB. This is with a P4, using the 82845 chipset. Some time ago, I came across a white paper from Intel, published all the way back in 2001, which quite clearly stated that the chipset would in fact support a maximum of 2 GB. So I decided to put this to the test, and purchased two 1 GB PC-400 DDR1 SoDIMMs.

It fired up, and ran quite happily. The only reason it's actually running 1.5 GB nowadays is because one of the 1 GB SoDIMMs proved to be faulty.....so I whipped it out, and replaced it with one of the 512 GB SoDIMMs that had previously been in residence. It's enough for what it occasionally gets used for these days, so I've left it as-is.

So, yes; you need to find out what chipset you're running, and then we can have a look around and see if we can find out Intel's official figures for that particular chipset. You may, however, be constrained by the RAM socket; if it will only accept 144-pin modules, you won't be any further forward, unfortunately.

Don't "hold your breath", that's all I can say.

Mike.

This should be mentioned where memory is concerned: that PCG-SRX77(UC) Sony VAIO came with 128MB RAM. Its official maximum is 256MB, meaning you add 128MB to it. It has exactly one slot for doing this, so you can only add one memory chip at any one time.

This means you will always have that original 128MB added to whatever memory you buy. If you put in a 256MB chip you will have 384MB RAM. If you put in a 512MB chip you will have 768MB RAM. 1GB means 1152MB. These are weird figures so I wonder if it would work. To keep it "normal" would require chips with 384MB RAM, 896MB RAM, that sort of thing. Do they exist?

And any chip would have to be shaped and built exactly like the normal 128MB RAM chips so it will fit- and it must work for 2001 Sony VAIOs.

This is from the user's manual:

"For memory upgrades, use only unbuffered PC100 (CL2) SDRAM μDIMM modules. (Sony offers the optional 128 MB PCGA-MM128T memory module.)"

The current chip has the model code "M463S1654CT1-L7A." Again, any other chip must be the same exact shape and size but with more memory or it cannot possibly fit. There are no other memory slots anywhere. As mentioned the model number is "PCG-SRX77(UC)," SR series.

Mike, Fenyo- can either of you get me started on how to modify browsers like Palemoon 27 SSE Linux? I have narrowed down the Deviantart problems, Modal trouble included, so maybe- if Palemoon 28 cannot be made to run on it- Palemoon 27 can be improved.

The official maximum is just sure at the time when the laptop was manufactured, later came out larger sd-rams which maybe can handle the laptop, its depend on mobo chipset, many P3 laptops can handle 512mb sd-rams with two slots are altogether 1Gb ram of total. Probably the second memory slot in your case is under the keyboard (another side of the mobo), it was not customary to solder on the motherboard at the time, but you could replace only one stick too, if replace to 256mb you will get 384 mb total with 512mb will 640mb total, it's work.
Did you try DebianDog Wheezy? It' seems lighter then Precise Light, i've a fully updated antiX 13.2 system somewhere with mesa-dri1-legcacy-drivers (Matrox, S3 Savage, Ati Rage128, 3Dfx, Sis, i810) enabled which distro has the same speed that Debiandog (but it needs larger hdd space of corse), if i find i could make live iso from it...

There is just one slot, and it is under the keyboard. As this is a 2001 laptop it is remarkably easy to get to- remove three screws, slide the keyboard up a bit, lift it, there is the memory card/chip. But there is just the one.

I have not tried those distros yet. I am not sure how to install them or use them yet.

GusCE6 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:22 pm

I have not tried those distros yet. I am not sure how to install them or use them yet.

The easiest way for you step by step;
- Install Plop Boot Manager to Windows Xp mbr to able to boot from usb
- Download DebianDog Wheezy iso only eats around 40-50 mb ram
- Download Rufus 2.18 (the latest version which compatible with Xp) to write a bootable iso to the pendrive
- Restart the laptop and choose usb from plop boot manager menu, and now you could test any distro whatever you want to decide which is the most suitable for your hardware.

My time on the Internet is limited. Can anyone here link me to a PET file that would allow Puppy Linux Precise Lite to use a Panda
Wireless USB plugin?

The one for Lucid does not work. The numbers indicate the wrong kernel.

This must be the definition of irony.

If your browser is old, and that even seems to include the default Palemoon 28.4.0 in Bionic, mega.nz refuses to allow it to download a new one from the links in this thread. It gripes that - wait for it - "Your browser seems a bit outdated. Please update to the latest version or switch to a recommended browser."

Does puppylinux.com by any chance have a file storage/sharing facility? That would be nice ...

Alternatively, some folks have used archive.org for Puppy files, and that's worked out well, as far as I know. I'm pretty sure that archive.org is more open and universal than commercial file sharing websites.

Just a thought.

Thanks.

@ahoppin :-

Let me know which browser you're interested in. I'll transfer it over to MediaFire; you can try a download from there, if you like.....they're usually less bothered about browser age.

Mike.

Mike, thanks! I'm trying to help out a friend. I set her up with Tahr 32 bit on a Thinkpad T400 probably about 4-5 years ago, and then she moved overseas, so I haven't been able to do anything with the computer lately.

She's OK with installing software, but doesn't want to update to a more recent Puppy. So I'm trying to find a modern browser that she can download and install, that will work with Tahr.

A recent Chromium 32 bit would probably be ideal. But it would have to work with the Tahr glibc (2.29, I think).

I saw Chromium 65 for Tahr somewhere here, but that's pretty old now, early 2018.

So I suggested that she download Fenyo's Palemoon 28.17.0 - but mega.nz wouldn't let her have it.

I guess what I'm looking for is the latest Chromium (preferably) or Palemoon (or similar) that will still run on Tahr 32 bit.

Do you have any suggestions?

@ahoppin :-

O-kay. I've uploaded you a selection to my MediaFire a/c, all right?

You've got:-

Firefox

Firefox-portable32 (v91 at the time of building, but it'll soon update)
Firefox 91 ESR-portable32

Pale Moon - these are the current v29.4.1, courtesy of Steve Pusser over at the Pale Moon forums

PaleMoon-portable32
PaleMoon_glibc228-portable32 (with Bionicpup's glibc)

Slimjet

Slimjet-portable32 - a Chromium-based 'clone', this one is at 32.0.4.0, and is, I believe, based around Chromium 92. Not absolutely bang up-to-date, but it's the newest Slimjet release (maybe one version behind), and is fairly current.

-----------------------------------

I finally figured out why I couldn't get Tahrpup32 to get to desktop on this new-ish rig of mine. It did when I first got it around 22 months ago, but at that point it was running on the standard on-die Intel GPU. Ever since I installed my Nvidia GPU in spring last year, it's never got to a desktop since then....

"nouveau.modeset=0" on the kernel line fixed that, so these have all been tested on Tahrpup32 in the last hour or so. All fire up fine. I included the glibc-tweaked version of Pale Moon, but I can't see you needing it.

Unless your friend's machine is seriously ancient, you won't really need Fenyo's "New Moon" builds. That's for Pentium III or older; we're talking at least 20 years old+ before these are really needed.

I can upload those to MediaFire if you want, but try the ones I've provided first (if they'll download, that is!), and let me know what happens. If you definitely need the New Moon SSE-only build, there's a 'current' v29.4.1 version of that, too.

Let me know if you have any success with these, which can all be found here.....(along with MD5 checksums if required):-

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/7souro ... or+Tahrpup

Mike.

These all downloaded successfully - a million thanks, Mike! I'll take them out for a wander tomorrow (maybe even yet tonight) and see how it goes. Cross your fingers....

Just checked out the Slimjet portable. You, Mr Walsh, should be wearing a cloak and carrying a wand, because you're surely a Puppy wizard. This browser works like the squirrels and chipmunks in my yard, piling up their winter stores. Well done!

Now to add a few privacy tweaks, build a .pet with a pre-configured profile, and it's settled.

This takes care of my friend's problem, but I'm going to check out the other browsers for my own use. I still run Lucid on one machine here - my first Puppy; you know how it is. Maybe I can tweak one of these browsers further to give the grey-muzzled guy a more up-to-date browser.

Thanks for all your aid, and for understanding the situation.

@ahoppin :-

Well, I DO still understand the issue. I may have a fairly powerful set-up now with the new HP desktop rig this last year or two, but I haven't yet given up on ye anciente Dell lappie, despite that it's almost 20 years old.....because it still works 100%.

Yes, the single-core Pentium 4 is rather like "watching paint dry" compared to the 8th-gen quad-core Pentium 'Gold' I'm running in the new rig, but it's still gamely chugging away. Truth to tell, I've got rather attached to it over the years; we've been some places together. PaleMoon is the only browser that will run with any degree of normal speed now; in fact, Fenyo's SSE-only builds run faster, because they don't place so much demand on the old P4.

Slacko 5.6.0 & DPup 'Stretch' from radky share the honours on the PATA/IDE SSD, and share a common "NewMoon" portable between them.....

Mike.

Indeed! Congrats on your new HP speeder there. Sounds like fun!

Still hanging in here with mostly early- to late-aughts hardware.

I suppose it's heresy, but now that Moore's Law has been effectively repealed, the main reasons for new hardware seem to be a need for the utmost speed - IIRC you do video so that would definitely apply to you - and an outright failure of the old friends.

Linux has always been there for well-seasoned hardware like ours, but that's changing, I fear. I blame the systemd attitude. :-\

Enough yammering from me. Thanks again for your hard work on these portable browsers.

@ahoppin :-

Heh. Trying to do anything video-related with a single-core P4 equates to CPU pegged at 100% and frozen solid.

Intel had the cheek to describe the P4s as "multimedia-ready". Mind you, that WAS 20 years ago.....and things have moved on a hell of a long way since then, both in capability AND code complexity.

As you say; video-processing does need "grunt". There's no getting away from that. This Pentium 'Gold' G5400 is far from being a powerhouse by today's standards, it's true, but it's so much better than what I had before that it's a real "eye-opener", for sure.....

Tempus fugit.

(*shrug*)

Mike.

Any news for that poor 2001 Sony VAIO? I've been away because of a covid quarantine and other weird stuff.

It's good to be back.