Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Change_kernels program and how to use it
viewtopic.php?p=28154#p28154

Make sure to use a 32bit kernel.

pae or no pae kernel, is all about being able to support, more than 4GB of RAM.
does not matter which one to use, if you do not have more than 4GB of RAM.

Do not try any raspup kernels.
Those are for ARM Raspberry Pi computers not X 86 computer you have.

There is about a 30% chance, changing the kernel, will make any difference.
Definitely only try series 3 or 4 kernels.

Series 5 kernels are too new for the hardware.
Good chance they dropped any/some support for that hardware.
That is the unknown with kernels.
What do they still support and what support, is no longer in them.
But the newer the kernel, the more chance they dropped support for some older hardware.
The kernel is constantly needing updated, for providing support, for the very newest hardware.

@williwaw

williwaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:29 pm

Maybe ask in the bionic32 thread?
viewtopic.php?f=115&t=165

That sounds like a good idea.

williwaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:29 pm

A new topic asking how to could be useful to others

It appears bigpup has written a very good tutorial on how to do this.

@bigpup

bigpup wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:04 pm

Change_kernels program and how to use it
viewtopic.php?p=28154#p28154

That's a comprehensive guide! And I guess I'm not entirely surprised that there is a program to do the job.

bigpup wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:04 pm

Make sure to use a 32bit kernel.

Looking at the list of kernels, there seem to be a number of different "families" of kernels:

tahr
slacko
s32
xenial

Would BionicPup32 be likely to work better with any particular one of these families (given its Ubuntu Bionic compatibility)?

I have now added "replacing the kernel" to my skills. It didn't solve the problem though...

Since the other two versions booted directly into the right resolution, I tried their kernel versions first. Neither 3.14.56-tahr_noPae (Precise Light 5.7.2) nor 3.14.55-slacko_noPAE (Slacko 6.3.2) changed anything. The resolution was still stuck on 800x600.

Next I tried the oldest kernel on on the list, 3.0.103-tahr_noPAE_retro. With this kernel I lost function of the mouse as well as of the trackpad.

My last attempt was 3.14.20-tahr_noPAE. With this kernel, the boot gut stuck on "Performing a 'switch_root' to the layered filesystem..."

Allthough I haven't yet tried ALL of the other kernels, I strongly suspect, primarily based on the fact that the two I tried first could handle the screen resolution on my test rig running on other versions of Puppy, that the problem might after all NOT be the kernel.

Does anyone have any other suggestions to why BionicPup23 8.0 will not change the screen resolution, and what solutions there might be to the problem??

You could try @mistfire 's xorg-autoconf to create a new xorg.conf file that might (or might not) work better.

http://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtopi ... 9#p1050639

Install the pet (it's just a script)
then run xorg-autoconf > /etc/X11/xorg.conf
then restart X

You could try putting the modeline that works in an other Linux OS, for example XenialPup.
Type xvidtune -show to show the modeline it is using.

As far as I know, the timings should be coming from the monitor's EDID data, or from the data built into Xorg.

EDIT: output needs to be redirected to /etc/X11/xorg.conf

what is the output of

xrandr

if 1280 x 800 doesn't show there you could try adding a new modeline see ...
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xrandr ... esolutions

Let's go back to basics.

Well we now know it has nothing to do with the kernel being used.

The graphics driver is what provides graphics and resolution.
ATI hardware has always been a little buggy with Linux OS's.

Graphics driver setup, is being tweaked in Puppy, and is a little different, from Puppy version to Puppy version.

Boot one of the Puppy versions, that will give you the correct resolution.
Let's see what they are using for the graphics driver.
menu->System->Pup-Sysinfo->Devices->Display->Video-info
Post everything it gives for info.

Looking at the list of kernels, there seem to be a number of different "families" of kernels:

tahr
slacko
s32
xenial

Not families of kernels.
Just the kernels used in different versions of Puppy. (tahrpup, Slacko, Xenialpup, etc....)
Some Puppy versions, tried out several different kernels, during development of it.
Those kernel packages, are setup for how Puppy uses the kernel, and has it packaged.
So, we know they should work in a Puppy version.

@williams2 @666philb @bigpup

From BionicPup32 8.0:

# xrandr
xrandr: Failed to get size of gamma for output default
Screen 0: minimum 800 x 600, current 800 x 600, maximum 800 x 600
default connected 800x600+0+0 0mm x 0mm
   800x600       61.00* 
#

From Precise Light 5.7.2:

VIDEO REPORT: Precise Puppy, version light-5.7.2
Processor: Mobile AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 3500+

X.Org X Server 1.11.3
Release Date: 2011-12-16

Chip description:
01:05.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RS482M [Mobility Radeon Xpress 200] [1002:5975]
Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI] Device [1025:009f]
Kernel driver in use: radeon

Requested by /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
Modules requested to be loaded: synaptics dbe

Probing Xorg startup log file (/var/log/Xorg.0.log):
Driver loaded (and currently in use): ati
Loaded modules: dbe dri dri2 exa extmod fb glx kbd mouse radeon ramdac record synaptics

Actual rendering on monitor:
Resolution: 1280x800 pixels (338x211 millimeters)
Depth: 24 planes



Monitor : card0-LVDS-1
Model : QUANTADISPLAY
WxH (cm) : 33x21

Modeline:

# xvidtune -show
"1280x800"     68.90   1280 1301 1333 1408    800  804  808  816 -hsync -vsync

#

From Slacko 6.3.2:

Video-Info 1.5.1 - lör 3 jul 2021 on Slacko Puppy 6.3.2 - Linux 3.14.55 i686

Chip description:
5.0 VGA compatible controller: AMD/ATI [Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.] RS482M [Mobility Radeon Xpress 200]
oem: ATI RADEON XPRESS 200M Series

X Server: Xorg Driver used: radeon

X.Org version: 1.14.3
dimensions: 1280x800 pixels (338x211 millimeters)
depth of root window: 24 planes

Modeline:

# xvidtune -show
"1280x800"     68.90   1280 1301 1333 1408    800  804  808  816 -hsync -vsync

#

I haven't had time to test the xorg-autoconf or changing modeline yet.

@666philb

666philb wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:33 am

if 1280 x 800 doesn't show there you could try adding a new modeline see ...
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xrandr ... esolutions

I tried this, but it didn't go quite as I hoped:

# xrandr --newmode "1280x800"     68.90   1280 1301 1333 1408    800  804  808  816 -hsync -vsync
xrandr: Failed to get size of gamma for output default
X Error of failed request:  BadName (named color or font does not exist)
  Major opcode of failed request:  140 (RANDR)
  Minor opcode of failed request:  16 (RRCreateMode)
  Serial number of failed request:  19
  Current serial number in output stream:  19
#

@williams2

williams2 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:25 am

You could try @mistfire 's xorg-autoconf to create a new xorg.conf file that might (or might not) work better.

http://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtopi ... 9#p1050639

Install the pet (it's just a script)
then run xorg-autoconf > /etc/X11/xorg.conf
then restart X

The pet was successfully installed, and then I got the following:

# xorg-autoconf > /etc/X11/xorg.conf
ls: cannot access '/sys/class/drm/card*/device/vendor': No such file or directory
BusyBox v1.30.1 (2019-04-24 21:49:26 +08) multi-call binary.

Usage: basename FILE [SUFFIX]

Strip directory path and .SUFFIX from FILE
#

You might be able to use more modelines by editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf
and adding one of these lines to Section "Device" or to Section "Screen"

Option “ModeValidation” “NoVertRefreshCheck”
or
Option “ModeValidation” “AllowNonEdidModes”
or
Option “ModeValidation” “AllowNonEdidModes; NoVertRefreshCheck”

Be careful, you can damage the hardware using timing values that are wrong for the hardware.

Pressing ctrl+alt+backspace will kill X immediately.
Then you can edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Or if you delete /etc/X11/xorg.conf Puppy will create a new one.

You can try a modeline by adding it to xrandr.

Looking at the driver info that each version of Puppy provides by Pup-Sysinfo.

With that xpress 200 graphics card being as old as it is.

Bionicpup32 is probably using a newer Radeon/ATI driver, that does not support that card very well, if at all.
Seems you are getting the very basic operation and nothing else.
They do that with drivers.
The newer the driver, the less it still supports older hardware, for newer hardware support.

Here is the ATI recommended driver for the express 200
https://www.amd.com/en/support/graphics ... xpress-200
You need the Linux X86 version.

I know nothing about using this AMD driver package.
Maybe someone that has used them, will come along and help.

I am guessing you need to load the Bionicpup32 devx.sfs and kernel souces.SFS for the kernel being used. (you need to be back to using the original kernel, Bionicpup32 comes with)
Run the AMD driver run file in a terminal.
It is a run file, so it should auto do what is needed to compile and install the driver.
Those needed Bionicpup32 files are here:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... cpup32.htm

Place these Bionicpup files in /mnt/home.
Use SFS-load-on-the-fly program to load them.
Then run the AMD driver run file in a terminal.

@williams2

williams2 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:14 am

Be careful, you can damage the hardware using timing values that are wrong for the hardware.

This is where I draw the line. I'm not ready to risk damaging my hardware, especially not with my limited Linux skills.

williams2 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:14 am

You can try a modeline by adding it to xrandr.

I tried that, as you can see from my earlier post, but it failed, and I don't really understend the error messages.

@bigpup

bigpup wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:30 pm

you need to be back to using the original kernel

Already done. I had to redo the bootable USB twice while testing to change kernels. I see that there's a new version, BionicPup32 8.0+28. Could it change anything to change to this version?

bigpup wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:30 pm

Run the AMD driver run file in a terminal.
It is a run file, so it should auto do what is needed to compile and install the driver.
Those needed Bionicpup32 files are here:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... cpup32.htm

Place these Bionicpup files in /mnt/home.
Use SFS-load-on-the-fly program to load them.
Then run the AMD driver run file in a terminal.

Just to check if I understood right: The Bionicpup32 devx.sfs and kernel sources.SFS for the kernel being used need to be downloaded and loaded (="installed"?) before I try to run the AMD driver run file in a terminal.

The way I understand it the steps would be:
1. Download Bionicpup32 devx.sfs and kernel sources.SFS
2. Place them in /mnt/home
3. Load them using the SFS-load-on-the-fly program
4. Download the AMD driver run file
5. Run the AMD driver run file in a terminal (how is this done?)

Is this correctly understood?

@bigpup

I went ahead and tried (Google helped me find out how to execute a run file from the terminal). The first four steps went fine, but the run file returned error messages that I don't understand (as ususal):

Uncompressing ATI Proprietary Linux Driver-8.593...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
==================================================
 ATI Technologies Linux Driver Installer/Packager 
==================================================

Error: ./default_policy.sh does not support version
default:v2:i686:lib::none:4.9.163-lxpup-32-pae; make sure that the version is being
correctly set by --iscurrentdistro

Removing temporary directory: fglrx-install.qTkd0f
#

That was what I was hopping would not happen.

This is the answer for that error.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/101198/ ... deo-driver.
the problem is the driver package needs to see kernel 2.6.28 (or earlier) and Xserver 1.5 (or earlier) in the operating system.

The radeon/ATI driver in all Puppy versions, is a generic, general purpose driver, hacked together by Linux people, to hopefully just work, on any AMD/ATI hardware.
But, like any driver, there is a constant updating of it, to work on whatever hardware, is now available.
The version in Bionicpup32 8.0, seems to not work very well, with your xpress 200 card.

Still not sure if you really tried to get Vesa driver being used.
That driver works on anything, because everything supports the Vesa driver.

So, try this.
When you see the boot menu.
Choose this entry "Start upupbb 19.03 - RAM only"
It is going to start not using any save, so we know the save is not causing any of this or going to conflict with what you are going to do.
It is going to boot like a brand new install.
Do not try to config anything.
This is to see what selecting the Vesa driver does.

Go to Applications menu->Leave->Exit to Prompt
At the prompt.
Enter xorgwizard and press enter key.
Should now be running the xorgwizard.
Select vesa for driver
Set the resolution you want.
Set the color depth to 24
Select done.
Xorgwizard will close. (screen may not look like it, but it is closed).
At left bottom of screen will be a flashing prompt.
Enter xwin, press enter key.
Should now be at desktop and using the vesa driver.

Can check in Pupy-Sysinfo to see what driver is being used.

Any luck with this?????

If this works.
Will need to make a new save file/folder.
Because you are running with no save, it will ask, at shutdown, to make one.
Give it a name, so you can understand it is a different one, from the old save.
On boot up, if there is more than one save.
It will ask which one to use.
Select this new save, that is setup to use the vesa driver.

@bigpup

bigpup wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:01 am

The version in Bionicpup32 8.0, seems to not work very well, with your xpress 200 card.

Not very. Would it be possible to replace it with the one from Precise Light 5.7.2 or Slacko 6.3.2, since they work?

bigpup wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:01 am

Still not sure if you really tried to get Vesa driver being used.
That driver works on anything, because everything supports the Vesa driver.

Yes, I did, but it was still stuck in 800x600.

bigpup wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:01 am

So, try this.
When you see the boot menu.
Choose this entry "Start upupbb 19.03 - RAM only"
It is going to start not using any save, so we know the save is not causing any of this or going to conflict with what you are going to do.
It is going to boot like a brand new install.
Do not try to config anything.
This is to see what selecting the Vesa driver does.

Go to Applications menu->Leave->Exit to Prompt
At the prompt.
Enter xorgwizard and press enter key.
Should now be running the xorgwizard.
Select vesa for driver
Set the resolution you want.
Set the color depth to 24
Select done.
Xorgwizard will close. (screen may not look like it, but it is closed).
At left bottom of screen will be a flashing prompt.
Enter xwin, press enter key.
Should now be at desktop and using the vesa driver.

Can check in Pupy-Sysinfo to see what driver is being used.

Any luck with this?????

Sadly, no.

bigpup wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:01 am

Can check in Pupy-Sysinfo to see what driver is being used.

Kernel Module - radeon, Description ATI Radeon

@bigpup

VIDEO REPORT: BionicPup32, version 19.03
Processor: Mobile AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 3500+

X.Org X Server 1.19.6
Release Date: 2017-12-20

Chip description:
01:05.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RS482M [Mobility Radeon Xpress 200] [1002:5975]
Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI] Device [1025:009f]
Kernel modules: radeon

Requested by /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
Resolution (widthxheight, in pixels): 1280x800
Depth (bits, or planes): 24
Modules requested to be loaded: dbe
Drivers requested to be loaded: vesa

Probing Xorg startup log file (/var/log/Xorg.0.log):
Driver loaded (and currently in use): vesa
Loaded modules: dbe ddc evdev fb glx int10 shadow synaptics vbe

Actual rendering on monitor:
Resolution: 800x600 pixels (333x212 millimeters)
Depth: 24 planes

direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.4
OpenGL vendor string: VMware, Inc.
OpenGL renderer string: llvmpipe (LLVM 10.0.0, 128 bits)
OpenGL core profile version string: 3.3 (Core Profile) Mesa 20.0.8


...the above also recorded in /tmp/report-video

Still going on and on and on. My goodness. Does a kernel swap work?

@amethyst

amethyst wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:42 am

Still going on and on and on. My goodness.

Call me stubborn, but I don't like to give up...

amethyst wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:42 am

Does a kernel swap work?

Nope, tried four different ones, including the two from Precise Light 5.7.2 and Slacko 6.3.2, which booth work witout problems with their respective distributions.

Had it not been for the fact that two related distributions boot up directly to the correct screen resolution without any problems whatsoever, I would perhaps have given up by now. If two work, the third ought to as well!?!

If two work, the third ought to as well!?!

No!
There is no way to make a 300 to 400 MB OS able to support all possible hardware.
That is why there are several versions of Puppy.

That last post with the Pup-SysInfo, says it is using the Vesa driver.

What I do not understand is why you are not able to choose some other resolution.

When I run xorgwizard and select Vesa driver.
It provides a long list of possible resolutions, I can choose.

when running xorgwizard.
You get no list of resolutions to choose from?

Could it be that the Xorg version is too "new" for that old hardware? Could be a reason why you have no problems with the resolution running the older Puppy's.

I suspect that XenialPup's older Xorg has modelines (resolutions) for your monitor in it's database.
So there are a selection of modelines known to work that you can choose from.

BionicPup no longer has modelines for your monitor in the database, so it must fall back on the generic modelines (the vesa modelines and the standard generic modelines) that are in the database.

I suspect Bionic is using the EDID information in the monitor to reject modelines that might not work with your monitor. Xenial does not need to use the EDID data to reject modelines that might not work.

If you really want it to work, you need to add the modeline that works in Xenial to the xorg.conf file, and add a line to xorg.conf telling it to use that modeline. You might need to add options telling it to ignore the EDID data, and maybe the option to not test the vert refresh rate.

Apparently, the EDID data in monitors often go bad, and apparently, the EDID data is often wrong anyway.

it is also possible that the monitor and/or video card is really incompatible with Bionic's Xorg and/or video drivers. In which case, adding a working modeline to xorg.conf might not work.

You can get a lot more information adding the debug option.in xorg.conf.

This lists my video "cards":

ls /sys/class/drm/
card0  card0-HDMI-A-1  card0-LVDS-1  card0-VGA-1  renderD128  ttm  version

This lists the resolutions available for my HDMI card:

cat /sys/class/drm/card0-HDMI-A-1/modes
1920x1080
1920x1080
1920x1080
1920x1080i
1920x1080i
1920x1080i
1920x1080
1920x1080i
1920x1080
1920x1080
1680x1050
1280x1024
1280x960
1366x768
1280x800
1280x720
1280x720
1280x720
1280x720
1024x768
800x600
800x600
720x576
720x576
720x576
720x576i
720x576i
720x480
720x480
720x480
720x480
720x480
720x480i
720x480i
720x480i
720x480i
640x480
640x480
640x480
720x400

@bigpup

bigpup wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:32 pm

when running xorgwizard.
You get no list of resolutions to choose from?

Yes, I do.

When I boot in RAM only mode, The Graphics part of the Quick Setup screen states "Current resolution: 800x600 (24 bit)".

I Exit to Prompt and start the xorgwizard. Here I choose option 1) set video driver. In the next step I chose option 2) vesa (Generic VESA video driver).

Next I choose option 2) Set screen resolution. Here I get 10 preset resolutions to choose from. I select option 3) 1280x800.

Next I choose option 3) Set color bit depth. Here I choose option 2) 24 bit.

Next I choose Done and type xwin at the prompt.

The screen comes back up, still with 800x600 resolution.

When I open Puppy Setup and select Graphics / Screen, the xorg.conf option now indicates 1280x800, with 10 different options to chose from should I wish to change the resolution, whereas the xrandr option indicates 800x600 61.00*, with no other options to choose from.

If I try to change the screen resolution using the xorg.conf option of the Puppy Setup, the screen resolution still sticks to 800x600, regardless of which resolution I choose.

This is exactly the same that happens when I boot in regular mode.

@amethyst

amethyst wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:59 pm

Could it be that the Xorg version is too "new" for that old hardware? Could be a reason why you have no problems with the resolution running the older Puppy's.

In the xorgwizard in BionicPup32 8.0+27 it states "Xorg server 1.19.16 regular"
In the xorgwizard in Precise Light 5.7.2 it states "Xorg server 1.11.3"
In the xorgwizard in Slacko 6.3.2 there's no version information.

Is that information sufficient to answer your question? If it's too new, could it be changed to an older?

@williams2

williams2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:49 pm

This lists my video "cards":

Code: Select all

ls /sys/class/drm/
card0  card0-HDMI-A-1  card0-LVDS-1  card0-VGA-1  renderD128  ttm  version

This is my result from the same command:

# ls /sys/class/drm/
ttm  version
#

Does that make any sense?

@williams2

williams2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:55 pm

I suspect that XenialPup's older Xorg has modelines (resolutions) for your monitor in it's database.
So there are a selection of modelines known to work that you can choose from.

That sounds reasonable.

williams2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:55 pm

I suspect Bionic is using the EDID information in the monitor to reject modelines that might not work with your monitor.

Is it possible to extract the EDID information to find out?

williams2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:55 pm

If you really want it to work, you need to add the modeline that works in Xenial to the xorg.conf file, and add a line to xorg.conf telling it to use that modeline. You might need to add options telling it to ignore the EDID data, and maybe the option to not test the vert refresh rate.

Is there some step by step guide available on how to do this?

williams2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:55 pm

You can get a lot more information adding the debug option.in xorg.conf.

How do I do that?

Is it possible to extract the EDID information to find out?

yes, this should display the EDID data (works in BionicPup64):

get-edid | parse-edid

You can get a lot more information adding the debug option.in xorg.conf.

Well, maybe not a lot more, but some extra info about the EDID data and the modelines
Edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf and add Option "ModeDebug" "On" to the Section "Device", like this

Section "Device"
   Device     "Card0"
   Option "ModeDebug" "On"

Is there some step by step guide available

you can find a lot of information using Google.

you can put something like this in xorg.conf:

Section "Monitor"
   VertRefresh 48.0-75.0
   Modeline "1280x800"     68.90   1280 1301 1333 1408    800  804  808  816 -hsync -vsync
   Option          "PreferredMode" "1280x800"
etc, etc

and something like this:

Section "Screen"
	Subsection "Display"
	   Depth       24
	   Modes       "1280x800"   

Actually, Xorg is supposed to be able to run without an xorg.conf file.
If you delete the xorg.conf file, Puppy will create a new one.
You can start Xorg without any configuration in xorg.conf by replacing all the text in xorg.conf with a comment character, like this:

echo "#" > /etc/X11/xorg.conf