Discussion, talk and tips
https://forum.puppylinux.com/
I'm back using this distribution with a new kernel. Definitely the lightest on resources of all "more modern" Puppys I have used (clearly noticeable). Most definitely recommended for older machines. Is there a newer pure debian version of this Puppy (I know about Vanilla but it seems a bit different)?
PS: Forgot about Jose's DPupBuster which I have. Have to check it out again to compare with stretch7.5
@amethyst
There is Buster-8.0 by radky, it is similar to the stretch 7.5, very good too.
http://www.smokey01.com/radky/Woof/
proebler wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:06 am@amethyst
There is Buster-8.0 by radky, it is similar to the stretch 7.5, very good too.
http://www.smokey01.com/radky/Woof/
Thanks. I did try Jose's Buster and the pure Debian Puppys do seem to be less demanding on hardware. I also notice the step up in size from 7.5 to Buster is quite big. I think I'll stick with Stretch 7.5 for now as everything is still working. But it's good to know that newer alternatives are available.
proebler wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:06 amThere is Buster-8.0 by radky, it is similar to the stretch 7.5, very good too.
http://www.smokey01.com/radky/Woof/
Any idea if there is a support thread?
@rockedge Buster8 should be added to the mainline distribution section like Stretch7.5, I think.
Hello All.
My OS is BionicPup 32-8.0+28-uefi
However, I do try out different Puppy versions to get a feeling for how they work too.
At the moment I am trialling Dpup Stretch 7.5 K4.19.56-i686-PAE by radky.
I noticed that this version was last issued a very long time ago.
Also, I understand, that it is based on Debian 9 Stretch.
I came across this
https://linuxiac.com/debian-9-stretch-reached-eol/
So I am wondering if there will be any more Dpup Stretch in the future.
Unless I am completely off of the track, because:
Upgrade Debian 10 Buster to Debian 11 Bullseye: A Step-by-Step Guide
I really don’t mind carrying on with Dpup V7.5, although If there were an updated version somewhere then I would go for it.
If, through lack of knowledge of why Dpup V7.5 by radky has not been updated, I have caused any distress to anyone with this post then I apologise.
Best regards
Chelsea80
@Chelsea80 He did release dPupBuster 8.0 here: https://archive.org/download/Puppy_Linu ... .19.56.iso Another user (josejp2424) also realeased his version of DPupBuster 8.0, see this page: https://sourceforge.net/projects/dpup/files/
Note that the latest debian release is Vanilla dpup from user dimkr here: https://vanilla-dpup.github.io/. The latter is a rolling release (spanking new release of dpup continuously).
.....er; huh?
3 years, a "very long time ago"? Are you sure you're not inhabiting a different time-line to the rest of us..? 
3 years is nothing in Puppy-land. Not given the age of some of the machines our members still use. Sometimes, you have to use date-sympathetic software to be gentle on elderly machines.....
It's been said many times; "There's a Puppy for every possible machine out there". And that's very true. Often, it's kinder to run, say, a 10-yr old Puppy on a 12-15 yr old 'puter than it is to try & force it to run something 'modern' that's way too demanding for it.....
Mike. 
amethyst wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:58 amNote that the latest debian release is Vanilla dpup from user dimkr here: https://vanilla-dpup.github.io/. The latter is a rolling release (spanking new release of dpup continuously).
Small correction: it's not a rolling release in the sense of Arch or Void. They constantly update packages to the latest versions and add new functionality.
The Vanilla Dpup 9.2.x release series is built from a stable woof-CE tree that receives only fixes, it uses Debian "stable" packages (which receive only bug and security fixes) and sticks to the 5.10.x "longterm" kernel branch (like Debian 11). Vanilla Dpup 9.2.x receives only stability, security and usability fixes, but no new features, so it's a stable distro with weekly stable builds, not a rolling release distro.
I publish a detailed changelog at https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=6105: if you're hit by a bug fixed in a 9.2.x build newer than the one you use or want extra security and stability fixes, you can upgrade. If you're happy with the build you use, you don't have to upgrade. And the 9.2.x builds are compatible with each other: if you do want updates but not as often as once a week, you choose your own update schedule (for example, update once a month by updating from 9.2.4 to 9.2.8, then to 9.2.12).
dimkr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:02 amamethyst wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:58 amNote that the latest debian release is Vanilla dpup from user dimkr here: https://vanilla-dpup.github.io/. The latter is a rolling release (spanking new release of dpup continuously).
Small correction: it's not a rolling release in the sense of Arch or Void. They constantly update packages to the latest versions and add new functionality.
The Vanilla Dpup 9.2.x release series is built from a stable woof-CE tree that receives only fixes, it uses Debian "stable" packages (which receive only bug and security fixes) and sticks to the 5.10.x "longterm" kernel branch (like Debian 11). Vanilla Dpup 9.2.x receives only stability, security and usability fixes, but no new features, so it's a stable distro with weekly stable builds, not a rolling release distro.
I publish a detailed changelog at https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=6105: if you're hit by a bug fixed in a 9.2.x build newer than the one you use or want extra security and stability fixes, you can upgrade. If you're happy with the build you use, you don't have to upgrade. And the 9.2.x builds are compatible with each other: if you do want updates but not as often as once a week, you choose your own update schedule (for example, update once a month by updating from 9.2.4 to 9.2.8, then to 9.2.12).
Thanks for the info. I just mentioned your distro, I'm not a user myself (still use Stretch 7.5).
Hello All,
Laptop = lenovo ThinkPad T500 - 20 GB Hard Drive.
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P8400 @ 2.26GHz.
Core Count: 2.
64-bit capable: Yes.
OS = Puppy Dpup Stretch 7.5 frugal. Kernal = 4.19.56-stretch.
As an exercise I am trying to install the above OS to an external hard drive.
This external hard drive is an IBM Travelstar 20 GB ATA/IDE 2.5”.
Partition = 1 (primary). Format = FAT32. Flag = boot, lba.
It is attached to the laptop via a pin connector / usb.
I used Menu > Setup > Puppy Installer.
Whatever option I use in Puppy installer USB, the error box shows:
Nothing to choose. If a plugin device, did you plug it in?
If I use BootFlash USB installer, the error box shows:
No USB drive plugged in
I tried connecting the Travelstar after the laptop booted and before the laptop booted
I tried mounting and unmounted.
I tried using Menu > Setup > Grub4Dos bootloader config.
The icon for the Travelstar shows on the desktop as sdb1.
GParted partition manager recognises sdb1 and shows the normal information.
If I click on sdb1 on the desktop ROX Filer file manger recognises it as /mnt/sdb1/(Thumbs), but of course there is no information.
I have tried, on my lenovo IBM ThinkPad T60 Win XP Pro (SP3), using UNetbootin to try the install to the Travelstar from the Dpup Stretch ISO and failed, Travelstar not recognised.
Used above method to install Dpup Stretch ISO to USB stick then booted USB stick on this laptop then used Puppy installer from USB stick to this hard drive, so that worked OK.
Which worked on the USB stick. Also installing from the USB stick to this laptop using Puppy installer worked.
I have tried every combination I can think of without success, so.
Perhaps I have approached this exercise from the wrong direction or it’s just not possible to achieve this type of install or I am just a dumbo.
If you know how to get this to work please let me know because an unsolved problem remains an unsolved problem.
Best regards
Chelsea80
Be sure your bios is set to enable legacy USB. Also, take a look here on pg 3 to see if that helps.
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 6&start=20
wizard
@ wizard
Thank you for your reply.
Checked out the bios and all is as should be, so no problem there.
Followed your lead on the link and although a lot of info there I could not determine a resolve to my problem.
I can not understand that if Gparted and Rox recognises the Travelstar why does Puppy installer not.
Perhaps this was not such a good idea as an exercise to what I thought it would be.
But as the saying goes "To give in is to give up" so I will persist, slowly by the looks of it.
Best regards
Chelsea80
Did you use Puppy installer>Universal installer>USB hard drive to try to install to the drive?
wizard
@ wizard
Yes.
See my first post.
I used Menu > Setup > Puppy Installer.
Whatever option I use in Puppy installer USB, the error box shows:
Nothing to choose. If a plugin device, did you plug it in?
If I use BootFlash USB installer, the error box shows:
No USB drive plugged in
I am glad it's just an experiment and not mission critical!
Best regards
Chelsea80
@Chelsea80,
The following is my 'layman's view'. Remember that even to use an external hard-drive to store and access files from a running Puppy:
(1) The external drive must be plugged in;
(2) It must be receiving power; and
(3) It must be mounted/opened.
After mounting there's a delay. Depending on the size of the external hard-drive, that delay can be for a comparatively long time. What's happening during that delay is that Puppy is (4) indexing its contents. What's missing from the above list is something you may not have realized happened. Call it (2a).
(2a) Puppy recognizes the existence of the external-harddrive and assigns it a location in its file-system through which to communicate with it. [The desktop-drive icons which appeared are 'short-cuts' to that location].
Bootloaders are simple programs. They lack modules to perform 2a and 4. Now take another look at wizard's recipe. https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 6&start=20
Note that it does two things: it places the boot-loader on the external hard-drive AND employs the computer's bios to in boot from the external-harddrive, i.e, press f12, select external drive. Booting from the external-harddive, the boot-loader doesn't have to mount a drive. Bios did that. It only has to find the boot-configuration files (grub.cfg or menu.lst) which are on the same drive as the boot-loader, itself, and already mounted.
Reading/following the instructions of the boot-configuration files, the boot-loader doesn't have to assign a location to a different storage medium.
The above would explain why trying to boot from an external-hard drive doesn't otherwise work. What it doesn't explain is why you can write a boot-loader (and menu.lst/grub.cfg) to a USB-Key, give boot-priority to the key, and have its menu.lst/grub.cfg boot operating systems on the internal hard-drive but not an external hard-drive. [To be noted: On bootup, the bootloader and its menu.lst/grub.cfg have been copied into RAM. After boot-up the USB-Key can be removed; and if it is not removed it assignment on the system is not as the first drive (e.g. sda) but as a device assigned a later designation, e.g. sdb. ]
It may be that a computer's bios 'always' recognizes the existence of a internal hard-drive, if present. A piece of this puzzle my be filled in if with a boot-loader and menu.lst/grub.cfg on the external-drive, there's a stanza on menu.lst/grub.cfg to boot an operating system on the internal hard-drive. Another piece could be added if the menu.lst/grub.cfg on the external drive chainloads a bootloader and its menu.lst/grub.cfg on the hard-drive.
Timing may also be involved. An internal sata hard-drive is read 10 to 15 times faster than even the fastest USB-device.
@ mikesir
Thank you for your response. All protocol has been correctly observed.
From your and wizards comments it seems I have not expressed myself clearly enough.
So I will put it another way.
I have Puppy Dpup Stretch 7.5 frugal installed to an internal fixed hard drive on my laptop.
I want to install that Puppy Dpup Stretch 7.5 frugal from the internal fixed hard drive on the laptop to an external USB hard drive.
The only way I know of attempting that is to use (the included) Puppy installer.
From: Menu > Puppy installer > Universal installer > USB > USB hard drive
I get a message box that says:
Nothing to choose. If a plugin device, did you plug it in?
The desktop icon identifies the external USB hard drive as sdb1.
If I click on the sdb1 icon on the desktop ROX opens and identifies sdb1 as /mnt/sdb1 (Thumbs).
In Gparted from Select drive to work on, I choose sdb USB drive, Gparted opens and gives all the correct information for the external USB hard drive.
This leaves me with not being able to install Puppy Dpup Stretch 7.5 frugal from the internal fixed hard drive on the laptop to the external USB hard drive.
So,
Why does: Menu > Puppy installer > Universal installer > USB > USB hard drive NOT identify the external USB hard drive?
When
The sdb1 external USB hard drive icon is shown on the desktop.
ROX identifies the sdb1 external USB hard drive and gives correct information.
Gparted identifies the sdb1 external USB hard drive and gives correct information.
I hope this makes my problem a bit easier to understand and is more helpful for you.
Best regards
Chelsea80
OK, using your detail above I could duplicate the error on my Thinkpad x220, Dpup Stretch 7.5, and USB 40gb IDE fat32 drive. Looks like you've found a bug in the installer. I installed frugalpup-35 (installer) and it recognizes the USB hd so you should be able to install using it.
wizard
If dpup-Stretch does not already have frugalpup you can download it from here, viewtopic.php?p=50416#p50416. In fact, I'd recommend that you install the latest (improved) pet if dpup-stretch has a builtin; or download and sfs-load the latest sfs if you didn't install an older pet. [Applications installed and, thus, in a SaveFile/Folder have priority over loaded SFSes].
Puppy's builtin 'Puppy Installer' has been around for a decade, maybe two; maybe even pre-dating USB-external drives. It's hard to write applications to work with things which don't yet exist; or to realize that modification is needed for something not mentioned because it isn't commonly used.
Both frugalpup and grub2config only a couple years old; written to fill the needs their Devs knew existed. It's likely grub2config can also be used. But as wizard has already been successful using frugalpup that's the logical application to try.
@ Wizard
Thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to look into this for me. What a relief that you were able to get the same result, I thought it was me some how.
I did a search for frugalpup-35 (installer) and came up with
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... installer)
but unfortunately that is above my pay grade (a polite way of saying I haven’t got a clue).
Brain gears start to grind.
So, I used the (Puppy Dpup Stretch) Puppy installer from the internal fixed HD to a USB stick and it worked, no problems at all. Booted from that USB and was presented with a ‘virgin’ Puppy Dpup Stretch working OS.
Set up the options from the fist time use menu
Set up the options from the fist time shut down menu
Re-booted, no problems. Working OS.
I guess your right in that a possible bug is in the Puppy installer, but only for an external HD install.
Then I went to my other laptop (OS BionicPup32)
Attached the external HD. Used Gparted to format external HD to ext2 and made Flag = boot.
Then used Easy DD with the Puppy Dpup Stretch ISO to write the ISO to the external HD. I know it’s for an .img but I thought I would try it with the .ISO. My knowledge is not too great and it might be they are one of the same but with different names.
Anyway, it worked, great joy.
Re-booted the external HD and was presented with a ‘virgin’ Puppy Dpup Stretch working OS.
Set up the options from the fist time use menu
Set up the options from the fist time shut down menu
Booted the external HD and everything was how it should be. A working Puppy Dpup Stretch OS.
Easy DD, I understand, is the work of Barry K, so thanks to him for giving it to us.
Perhaps, if you have the time, you might give it a go and see how you get on.
I wonder what the next task will be for me to try and work out.
Thanks once again wizard.
Best regards
Chelsea80
@ mikesir
Saw your post after I submitted mine.
As you can see I’m not too clued up (yet) with the ins and outs of Puppy.
So while I appreciate the information you gave this time, I have found a working solution that I can understand. Perhaps when I get a bit more adventurous I will learn more.
Thanks again for your thoughts on this.
Best regards
Chelsea80
but unfortunately that is above my pay grade
Just download the file from the link, then click it. It will install and put an entry in your menu. Keep working at it and don't be afraid to experiment, you'll learn a lot.
wizard
@ wizard and @ mikesir
As both of you offered help for my problem It is only right I should give an update.
Joy was short lived with Easy DD. It appears, I don’t know why, that although the first shut down was completed correctly (with a save) when re-booted there was no save. So I had to re-enter everything again.
So I turned to the suggested FrugalPup V37, thanks gyrog.
Long story short. Complete success. I now have what I intended to have error free.
I understand that rockedge is the ‘guv’ of this forum. So I wonder if it would be possible that a dedicated sub section for FrugalPup be made and all relevant submitted posts moved to here.
Board index Advanced Topics Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) System
Or where ever it is thought to best sit. Not asking for much am I (rhetorical).
Best regards to you both
Chelsea80
Congradulations, Chelsea80, on perservering. 
Frugalpup has its own thrad, viewtopic.php?t=337 which is linked to on the "How to >Boot" Section, posting.php?mode=edit&p=17958.
Linux's strength is that it is open source: Anyone has the right to try to develop an application to accomplish a task and, when successful, publish it so that others may use it.
Linux's weakness is that it is open source: there can be a multitude of applications to accomplish the same task.
Puppy's strength is that it is open source. Anyone can develop and publish a Puppy operating system. That provides the potential that some Puppy may be able to efficiently function on one of the multitude of computers. One of Puppy's weakness are that to achieve that potential Puppys operate differently than almost every other Linux; certainly differently than those Linuxes which attract 95% or more of Linux users. Puppy' other weakness is that it is open source: each Puppy is slightly different than every other Puppy: not every application developed for one Puppy will function under another.
This Forum's strength is that it enables the creation of a community where everyone interested can ask questions and make suggestions. It's weakness is that even newbies can ask questions without having taken a semester long, college level course on How Puppys Work and How to Navigate the Forum. 
The result is an information tree like this:
requiring a college level, semester long course on How Puppys Work and How to Navigate the Forum and a place where those who enjoy solving puzzles and helping others find their way can hang out. 
I can't scan network in Pnethood. I switched on Samba and Samba Client in Firewall on fresh installation, computer can ping resources, can mount them with YASSM, i can browse net with nbtscan 192.168.0.0/16. But when I press 'Rescan Network' or 'Refresh' buttons in Pnethood, it blinks and writes 'no servers found, try refreshing'. Trying to connect with pnethood <server name> show me resources in pnethood and I can connect and show them. Shares are anonymous and works on same machine in Bionicle32 and WinXP.
What should I try?
The problem was in /usr/sbin/nbtscan. I replaced it with another one from bionicle and pnethood starts to scan network.
Congratulations, zedward. I about 12 days you've gotten the 'hang of Puppy': think outside the box.
Applications under debian-binary-compatible Puppys are often functional under ubuntu-binary-compatible Puppys of the same architecture (32 vs 64); and vice-versa.
In the future, this application may come in handy: gnewpet,
Taersh has packaged it as an SFS named LP2_GNewpet-6.5.sfs available from here, http://smokey01.com/RSH/LazY-Puppy-201/ ... ngle-apps/. SFS-Load it into any Puppy when you need it; unload it when you don't. Or the AppImage from here, viewtopic.php?p=18174&sid=7e759c30dc12f ... 078#p18174. Just Left-Click to use when you need it.
jpeps created it 10 year ago. https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtop ... c7#p598673 That post explains its usage.
I tried dpup. WoW! 
I like! Whose work is this? Vraiment sympatique!