Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

mikewalsh wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:42 am

Using the GT710 is no real advantage over the onboard UHD 610 graphics - specs are all but identical - apart from one very important reason; the onboard graphics 'borrows' from system RAM for its VRAM.....

Thanks. I have no idea how the onboard graphics 'measures up' against the GTX1050 but according to the m/b manual it has 1 x HDMI port, supporting a maximum resolution of 4096x2160@24 Hz and I only want 1920 x 1080 HOWEVER it also states that it uses a maximum shared 1GB RAM which I guess isn't too bad (out of 8GB). Also if it is faster than the onboard graphics it probably doesn't matter anymore as I use my 1 year old i7-9700K 16GB RTX 2060 OC 6GB PC now to run Flight Simulator (now MSFS 2020) - yes I am a FS tragic.

"Try a different driver if you have further problems by running Xorg video wizard. perhaps found under menu > setup? (I am not running fossa so it may be in a slightly different location.)"

Thanks for bringing Xorg to my notice.

" Select this entry: fossapup64 9.5 - RAM only"

I had tried that some time ago which made no difference.

I might try removing the graphics card and reseating it HOWEVER not sure it that is an issue as Windows happily runs with it - if bad connections and/or problem capacitors affect Fossapup wouldn't they also affect Windows?
All onboard m/b temperature monitors are normal.
No children around to stuff sox into the PC and it 'resides' inside a desk behind a closed door when not in use.

"A actual Nvidia manufactures driver, has to be downloaded and installed, to use it."

I will looked for an Nvidia driver and found a web page at nvidia with options to
download driver as a .run file
OR
an .exe file which according to the web page "notifies of driver updates and allows automatic update with a single click without leaving the desktop"
Still learning so not sure what is the best method.

Once again it is all that more strange that Fossapup was working very happily with the GTX1050 until 2 days ago.
Just to remind all when everything went 'belly up' I also could not boot windows as the boot order (BIOS) had mysterious changed and attempting to 'navigate' the BIOS settings was almost impossible with the 'cursor' 'jumping' all over the place and not remaining on the 'setting' I navigated to using the keyboard arrow keys. It seemed that something had changed the BIOS settings. I reflashed the BIOS as I did not have any other ideas what to do at the time which at least allowed me to easily 'navigate' the BIOS settings. It seems from what I have read since I first should have tried clearing the CMOS (remove battery and wait, bridge the 'clear CMOS' pins on motherboard while power cord DETACHED).

Thanks again.

Fossapup already has some compiled Nvidia drivers to download and install.
Quickpet->Drivers

If you need to get back to booting using the Nvidia card.

If this is some kind of issue with the nouveau driver.
Go back to using the Nvidia card.

When you get to the boot menu.
Select the correct menu entry.
Press E key to enter edit mode.
(This will edit the menu entry, but only for this boot)

Add this option to the end of the kernel line or the linux line. The line that has options in it.

nouveau.modeset=0

Example:

kernel /xenialpup6475uefi/vmlinuz   psubdir=xenialpup6475uefi nouveau.modeset=0

If this gets you to a working desktop.
Installing the correct Nvidia driver will give full supported hardware features.

After getting the correct Nvidia driver installed and using it.
Stop using the nouveau.modeset=0 option.

I am wondering if you actually have some part of the original Fossapup SFS files, that are on the USB, messed up.
Could be with some kind of file system corruption, maybe

Thanks bigpup

I am wondering if you actually have some part of the original Fossapup SFS files, that are on the USB, messed up.
Could be with some kind of file system corruption, maybe

I thought that too but the same problem occurs when booting up from a bootable DVD and the files on that cannot be changed.

I had previously tried to get a new nvidia driver via Quickpet/Drivers and opened the (uk) nvidia website with a menu to select language, product, operating system etc but everytime I used a drop down menu to select operating system and selected Liux 64 it would 'jump back' to Windows. Same the the product (select correct product from drop down menu and it would the n jump back to the one which it displays when first entering the web site. Once again I am frustrated.
There are other options such as nvidia 340 and nvidia 450 which will allow down load of driver but I have no idea if they are correct for my graphics card.

bigpup wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:42 am

This is what I do.

Using Gparted program
Delete all partitions on the USB drive, so it has all unallocated space.
Setup the USB with 2 partitions.
First one, small 300MB, fat32 format, flagged boot. (location for boot loader files, boot partition)
Rest of drive, whatever other partition(s), but one ext3 or 4 format. (location to put frugal installs)
(this is UEFI standard requirement, and some computers, look for a fat32 partition, for boot loader files)

Ok I am back to creating a bootable SD card to share with Windows.

I have created the following partitions on the SD card
sdk1 fat32 300Mb MIB Boot
sdk2 ext4 3.26 Gb GIB
sdk3 fat32 3.91 Gb GIB
DO I assume corrrectly that sdk1 and sdk2 are for Linux Fossapup and sdk3 is where I can access/store files in Windows.
Do I assume correctly that when running Frugalpup and install the iso file I select (drive) sdk2 for the install (it seems that way as your instructions state to select the small 300MB partition as the location to install the boot loader?

Thanks

John

That is correct,
However, I was personally suggesting to use just 2, sdk1 can be 4gig and be used for bootloaders AND the windows/linux shared data. sdk2 will be for the frugal install.

Just a personal preference but seems more "tidy" as a third (fat32) partition could be considered redundant.
Could also make the third partition ntfs. Comes down to your needs and preferences at this point.

I forgot to mention earlier that since booting up using the onboard (motherboard) graphics, booting to the menu (to select Fossapup, ... with RAM, etc) is MUCH faster than when I was using the nvidia card AND the menu screen is NOT in color.

I am wondering if you actually have some part of the original Fossapup SFS files, that are on the USB, messed up.
Could be with some kind of file system corruption, maybe

I thought that too but the same problem occurs when booting up from a bootable DVD and the files on that cannot be changed.

So, you are 100% sure you got a good download of the Fossapup64 9.5.iso?

I suggested to make a small first partition formatted fat32, flagged boot to be used as the boot partition.
Only put the boot loader on it.
Only use it for that, and only that.
Why?
If nothing else uses it.
There is little chance of file corruption, fragmentation, accidental deletion, etc... of the stuff needed for booting.

I had previously tried to get a new nvidia driver via Quickpet/Drivers and opened the (uk) nvidia website with a menu to select language, product, operating system etc but everytime I used a drop down menu to select operating system and selected Liux 64 it would 'jump back' to Windows. Same the the product (select correct product from drop down menu and it would the n jump back to the one which it displays when first entering the web site. Once again I am frustrated.
There are other options such as nvidia 340 and nvidia 450 which will allow down load of driver but I have no idea if they are correct for my graphics card.

That web site seems to be not working.
I looked up your card using this web site.
https://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us
It says you could use a lot of different drivers.
Including the Quickpet->Drivers->Nvidia 450 one.
It being the newest.
I would use it.

Nvidia when they produce a new driver, still keeps support for a lot of cards in it.
But the newest ones slowly start dropping support for the really old cards.
A Nvidia Geforce GTX 1050 is not that old a card.

Thanks bigpup.

bigpup wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:01 am

So, you are 100% sure you got a good download of the Fossapup64 9.5.iso?

I suggested to make a small first partition formatted fat32, flagged boot to be used as the boot partition.
Only put the boot loader on it.
Only use it for that, and only that.
Why?
If nothing else uses it.
There is little chance of file corruption, fragmentation, accidental deletion, etc... of the stuff needed for booting.

How can I be sure I got a good copy of the iso file?

I used the same iso file to create my original bootable usb and bootable DVD and they both worked well until the nvidia 'problem' (and I can't see a file on a DVD becoming corrupted as it is 'closed' for updates.

I have downloaded another copy using fossapup onto the bootable usb downloads folder.

Thanks for you suggestion about placing the boot loader only on the first partition. I assumed that but good to have it pointed out.

This is what is making a solution hard.
If the first time you booted the Fossapup live DVD and it had no problem with the Nvidia card.
It should be able to boot the same way, if you use boot menu entry ram only.
Both ways are booting not using any save.

Usually, problems after making a save, are due to something wrong with the save.
Yes. It can cause anything to happen, if the save has something wrong in it.

Sometimes there could be a save on the internal drive, that was made when using the live DVD.
Maybe there is one and something is wrong with it, but it is seen at boot up and is being used by both USB install and live DVD.

Something could be broken in the Nvidia card, but you say it seems to work OK using Windows.

I really need to get answers from you if I suggest doing something, you try it, and it does not work or help.
What does not work is also a clue to what may be the problem.
You do what?
You see what?
Is us looking over your shoulder, seeing what you see.

bigpup wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:02 am

This is what is making a solution hard.
If the first time you booted the Fossapup live DVD and it had no problem with the Nvidia card.
It should be able to boot the same way, if you use boot menu entry ram only.
Both ways are booting not using any save.

Usually, problems after making a save, are due to something wrong with the save.
Yes. It can cause anything to happen, if the save has something wrong in it.

Sometimes there could be a save on the internal drive, that was made when using the live DVD.
Maybe there is one and something is wrong with it, but it is seen at boot up and is being used by both USB install and live DVD.

Thanks again bigpup
I just changed my monitor back to use the nvidia card and tried booting to fossapup using 'use RAM only - no pupsave' and still I have the same problem.

I like your suggestion that something may have been saved to a hard drive and fossapup uses that during boot especially as I also have an even more recent nvidia card on this my main 'working' PC (I do all my 'work' on my older 'test' PC) and the same bootable usb stick and dvd works fine with it.
HOWEVER booting using 'use RAM only - no pupsave' prevent it attempting to access some file which may be on one of my hard drives.

Just now!
Not what has worked.
What works if you try it NOW!!!!
Can you get anything to boot up on the computer using the Geforce GTX 1050?
Any operating system?
If yes.
What OS?

Booting RAM only eliminates a bad save file/folder on the internal hard drive causing problems.
When you boot RAM only. You should not see any info about loading the save.

Look on the internal hard drive for any of the Fossapup sfs files.
adrv, fdrv, zdrv, or puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
If you find any.
Delete them from the drive.

Those could be causing problems if they are being used by the DVD or USB. Maybe!

Only boot with the DVD or the USB only plugged into computer. Only one!!!

Did You Ever Try This??????

When you get to the boot menu.
Select the correct menu entry.
Press E key to enter edit mode.
(This will edit the menu entry, but only for this boot)

Add this option to the end of the kernel line or the linux line. The line that has options in it.

Code:

nouveau.modeset=0

Example:

Code:

linux /vmlinuz pfix=fsck pmedia=cd nouveau.modeset=0

bigpup wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:23 am

Just now!
Can you get anything to boot up on the computer using the Geforce GTX 1050?
Any operating system?
If yes.
What OS?

Booting RAM only eliminates a bad save file/folder on the internal hard drive causing problems.
When you boot RAM only. You should not see any info about loading the save.

Look on the internal hard drive for any of the Fossapup sfs files.
adrv, fdrv, zdrv, or puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
If you find any.
Delete them from the drive.

Those could be causing problems if they are being used by the DVD or USB. Maybe!

YES as mentioned earlier I have no trouble booting to Windows 7 and using Windows 7 with all the apps I have used recently.

Also mentioned earlier all the text displayed during boot looks the same EXCEPT the last three lines (on separate screen) which normally show in white text on a black screen show in white text of a black background within a small WHITE area on screen (top left of the screen). This ONLY happens when booting using the nvidia card. When using the motherboard graphics all screens are totally black with white text during boot. I have attached an image from my mobile phone. Sorry it doesn't show the text but there are 3 lines and the second line is
"Setting up services..."

I found a fossapup save sfs file on one hard drive but deleting it did not fix the problem.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
I just located a boot DVD for SLACKO64.
IT too will not complete booting using the nivia graphics card. IT hangs when the message
"Loading kernel modules" is displayed. Is this a clue?
Yet it too boots ok using the motherboard onboard graphic card.

Once again I CAN boot to WINDOWS using the nvidia card.

this small white box with the setting up services, could it be the kind of box that appears in a monitor when making adjustments to the monitor? what happens when you change out the monitor?

A summary of exactly what I did -
with the nvidia card connected to the monitor and the BIOS set to use the PCIe

Windows 7 boots successfully and correctly and is usable

power off

Boot from fossapup usb memory stick
Press F12 (boot menu) while booting
select the usb memory stick
fossapup boots to menu
select Fossapup and press 'E' key
edit mode 'opens' and I see
kernel /vmlinuz pfix=fsk pmedia=usbflash
initrd /initrd.gz

I select the first line and add nouveau.modeset=0 at end of line
and press enter (key)
the line then displays as
kernel /vmlinuz pfix=fsk pmedia=usbflash nouveau.modeset=0

press 'b' to boot

Still will not work

BTW I also re seated the graphics card.

How can I be sure I got a good copy of the iso file?

when you right click on the downloaded iso, can you find gHasher? check the hash against the value in text file usually found right next to the iso in the repo.
alternately, go to the directory of the the downloded iso. and open a terminal in this directory and run md5sum name-of -the -iso.iso

to confirm. your puppy works fine with the integrated graphics?
are you trying to create a bootable sd card or troubleshoot a specific video card?

Just to put you in the picture. For many days after I created a bootable usb memory stick it worked perfectly with the nvidia card.
I had then created this thread to work out how to create a bootable SD card with a partition for use with Windows and that was going fine until a few days ago my PC seemed to go crazy and BIOS settings somehow became changed. I got that sorted out and then I could not boot using the SAME bootable usb memory stick. I then discovered that if I changed over from using the nvidia graphics card to the onboard graphics the same bootable usb memory stick worked ok.
Please also note that I had burned a bootable DVD at the same time as I created the usb memory stick and it now also won't work with the nvidia card AND I can boot to Windows 7 with either (in case you wondered if the usb memory stick had become corrupted).

So the 'scenario' is this - I have a bootable usb memory stick that worked perfectly with the nvida card for many days and no it won't.

Maybe it's time to put that problem to bed as I can live with using onboard graphics but it still would be good to know why it worked for a while and then not.

Thanks for the advice how to determine if an iso file is correct.

Maybe it's time to put that problem to bed as I can live with using onboard graphics but it still would be good to know why it worked for a while and then not.

Perhaps take it up later in a thread started in a section more dedicated to hardware problems? Not sure if someone keen on graphics cards would notice your problem in the beginner section under sd cards. The forum is frequented by a surprising number of talented folks. Linux in general has not always enjoyed the full support from every hardware vendor, but things have improved, and I guess we all have a piece of hardware laying around that we wished was not so finicky with whatever we throw at it.

Alternately, problems specific to fossa or whatever flavor under discussion are often directed to the specific thread relating to the development. It seems like once a lot of bugs get shook out of a puppy, it's almost time for a new release.

one of the nice things about puppys and dogs is the ability to make quick installs. once you have a puppy to work from, just starting over with a fresh iso or different flavor seems to work out effectively.

You are completely correct.
It all happened as part of creating a partitioned bootable SD card which this thread was created for and as it occurred in the middle of trying to do that I just reported it here.
I just had a look from the top and could not find a hardware related forum. Amy ideas?

maybe just the user section with the card in question in the title. This forum is kind of new and only recently organized. a hardware question area for hardware might be useful.

still watching to see how the sd card goes, a friend asked me recently about a similar project, and I expect hin by any day now. older machines were not very accommodating. it will be interesting to see what kind of read speeds you get and how it affects a frugal install.

We are trying all the things that should be making this work with the Nvidia 1050.
That is a well supported graphics card and should just be working.

all the text displayed during boot looks the same EXCEPT the last three lines (on separate screen) which normally show in white text on a black screen show in white text of a black background within a small WHITE area on screen (top left of the screen).

This is something I have never seen or anyone has ever told us about.
Really not normal!!

One idea.
On the monitor.
Look for any buttons that allow you to make setting changes to the monitor.
My monitor has them.
One it has is an auto adjust button.
Press it and the monitor self adjusts to the signal being inputted by the computer.
Resolution conflicts with what the monitor is wanting to use (the default resolution) and the resolution the computer is trying to use, can be a problem.

Running out of ideas!

Fossapup has the program take a shot.
menu->Graphics->Take a Shot

Open Rox file manager showing what is on the USB or DVD.
Take a image or it using Take a Shot.
Attach the image to a post.
Maybe we will see something in it not correct.

There is an auto adjust button bottom right of screen on the monitor but pressing/touching it displays 'auto adjust not available'. That is using the onboard graphics. It is getting late so will try using the nvidia tomorrow.
I took a screen shot of what is on the bootable usb stick (displayed as a list) and it is attached. Not sure if that is what you requested. I converted it to jpg and resized to fit into max filesize allowed.

Not seeing anything wrong with what is on the USB.

The menu.lst file is the config file for the boot loader.
Could open in a text editor.
Post what is in it.
Maybe something about the entries is wrong.

Noticed you have a lot of drives.

Some computers have problems if any other USB drive is plugged in other than the Puppy one.
Only have the Fossapup USB plugged in.
Any help?

Take a Shot has option to just select the window and not the complete full screen.
When window is selected.
You click take a shot button.
The mouse cursor turns into +
Place the cursor over the window you want to make image of.
Left mouse click and it takes a shot of that window only.

Thanks again bigpup

Firstly I tried booting with nothing plugged into usb sockets except mouse and k/b - still no good.
Yes I have 3 or 4 hard drives in that PC some partitioned - that is the reason for so many drives.

Not sure if this helps solve my problem but if I choose 'Fossapup - No kernel mode setting' from the menu it boots successfully to the fossapup pinboard using the nvidia graphics card.

I 'extracted the contents of the menu.1st file and pasted it at the end.

BTW I have been looking at other 'slim' linux operating systems and downloaded and created a bootable usb stick for FATDOG64. Guess what? It boots using the nvidia graphics card. I mainly did this just to see if it would and maybe that also helps solve why fossapup64 won't fully boot up using the nvidia.

Could there be a bug in fossapup?

#
# menu.lst
#

#color NORMAL HIGHLIGHT HELPTEXT HEADING
# f/b f/b f/b f/b
color light-gray/black yellow/red cyan/black light-blue/black

timeout 10
default 0

# 0.4.6a
graphicsmode -1 800 600
splashimage /boot/splash.jpg

title fossapup64 9.5
kernel /vmlinuz pfix=fsck pmedia=usbflash
initrd /initrd.gz

title fossapup64 9.5 - Copy SFS files to RAM\n
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck,copy
initrd /initrd.gz

title fossapup64 9.5 - Don't copy SFS files to RAM\nIf you want more RAM available
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck,nocopy
initrd /initrd.gz

title fossapup64 9.5 - Force xorgwizard (xorgwizard)\nForce xorgwizard (if you are having problems booting puppy)...
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pfix=xorgwizard,fsck
initrd /initrd.gz

title fossapup64 9.5 - No X\nTry 'xorgwizard' after bootup succeed to start graphic mode.
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pfix=nox,fsck
initrd /initrd.gz

title fossapup64 9.5 - No Kernel Mode Setting\nNo KMS
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash nomodeset pfix=fsck
initrd /initrd.gz

title fossapup64 9.5 - Safe mode, no X\nTry 'xorgwizard' after bootup succeed to start graphic mode.
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pfix=ram,nox,fsck
initrd /initrd.gz

title fossapup64 9.5 - RAM only - no pupsave\nBoot up Puppy without pupsave
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pfix=ram,fsck
initrd /initrd.gz

title fossapup64 9.5 - Ram Disk SHell\nExecute 'init' then dropout to prompt in initramfs
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pfix=rdsh
initrd /initrd.gz

title
root

title Help - Boot Params
configfile /boot/grub/menu_phelp.lst

title
root

# Boot from Partition Boot Sector

title Boot first hard drive (hd0,0)
root (hd0,0)
chainloader +1 || chainloader /grldr || chainloader /bootmngr

title
root

# additionals

title Grub4Dos commandline\n(for experts only)
commandline

title Reboot computer
reboot

title Halt computer
halt

Not sure if this helps solve my problem but if I choose 'Fossapup - No kernel mode setting' from the menu it boots successfully to the fossapup pinboard using the nvidia graphics card.

I thought you had said you tried that before and it did not work.
Yes, big clue!!

If you used this boot menu entry:
title fossapup64 9.5 - No Kernel Mode Setting\nNo KMS
Then the problem is with the nouveau graphics driver.

Anyway, if you can use this menu entry and get to a working desktop.
Use Quickpet->Drivers
Download and install the Nvidia 450 driver.
Reboot.
The normal 1st boot menu entry should now work and you should now be using the Nvidia driver.

Note:
On reboot. If it opens Xorgwizard.
May have to type in Nvidia in driver selection slot.
Select the default monitor resolution.
24 is the highest color depth Linux has. (actually it is the same as Windows 32)

The Nvidia driver will install a Nvidia control program.
Nvidia X server Settings
Use it to make any changes to how the Nvidia driver is used.

Thanks bigdog

No I NEVER said that I tried booted with no kernel mode setting. I mentioned that I had tried a few different boot types from the menu and especially the one without RAM which I was asked to do but never said I had tried them all or I had tried the one without kernel. I possibly got tired of trying so many things.

Also I have tried to download the nvidia 450 driver from Quickpet->Drivers but each time I try I get an error message that it can't be downloaded. Maybe there wasn't an internet connection at the time as that brings another question - when you start a fossapup session do you always have to manually connect (click on the connect icon). I though that once it was set up it would always automatically connect but I have noticed at time when I use a web browser and attempt to open a web site I get reminded that I am not connected.
I just booted up with kernel and I was able to download the nvidia driver (without manually connecting to the internet) so don't know if in the past I was unable because of no internet (I would have thought there would have been an message to advise).

I installed the driver and rebooted as advised and chose the normal fossapup boot option ( top line of menu) but it still doesn't boot.
Any suggestion now?
I guess I can always use the option without kernel and/or use the onboard graphics. I HAVE options.

Lastly after the nvidia graphic driver was installed and I rebooted I find in the Menu>System nVidia server settings but when I select it nothing happens /nothing appears on the screen.

Anyway there has been some SUCCESS and I do thank you for your patience too working through this.

OK.
This computer does not like you!

The Nvidia driver got installed, but not selected to use.

Try this:
Use the boot menu entry "fossapup64 9.5 - No X"
That should boot to a prompt.
Type xorgwizard
Press enter key.
Now running xorgwizard.
In the driver selection input slot.
Type in nvidia
Select a resolution you know should work.
24 bit depth.
Finish.
Back at the prompt.
Type xwin.
Press enter key.
Hopefully that will load the nvidia driver and now be using it.
Reboot and save.
Should now be able to use normal boot menu entry and now boot using the nvidia driver.
Nvidia X server Settings program should now work.