dimkr wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:50 am
When I introduced the term "free-riders" to this thread, what I meant is, non-Puppy distros that don't help Puppy grow: distros that benefit from Puppy's SEO to get people here
Anyway, lets assume rockedge's stated interpretation, which you are saying was indeed your meaning, is correct.
Calling other distros 'free-riders' was an unfortunate term to use then; perhaps I personally think Puppy (a distro belonging to the community) is tending to become a 'free-rider' that relies on these 'Other' distros to keep its forum relevant, but would me calling it that be appreciated by those who use and help develop it, whether the belief of some or not?
I don't myself have much if anything to say about Puppy Linux when I join in discussions in the KL threads. In more general forum discussions, concerning topics such as overlayfs versus aufs, security, matters that effect the popularity of this forum, I have my opinions like everyone else and express my feelings on such matters. Once again, if you re-read the thread, however, I was not attacking Puppy Linux whatsoever, but then the comments about free-riding FirstRib came up, so I replied. What do you expect?
As for the ganging-up behaviors, despite my being used to that painfully re-occurring when I post outside of KL section, the bully-boy gang-pal behaviour is not acceptable to me, and I don't need to keep letting it go on.
I do not have time or wish to help develop Puppy Linux, but I do like to see it progressing beyond the supported traditional old Puppy situation, which certainly, to me, threatens the popularity and usefulness of this forum. I don't care if that also meant that projects I do spend some time on were not noticed or becoming used by anyone - I am not as a person free-riding on anyone... (and no distro has any soul I believe, not even if AI is involved). I only support FR-based distros here nowadays because others put time into that KL-related work so it is only fair to go along with that, and help when I have time. If it were better for the forum as a whole to concentrate on Puppy Linux discussion, that is fine to me, but I don't make such decisions at all.
Once upon a time Puppy Linux was the creative efforts of a single person, who provided it in opensource form to those who wanted to use it (and if they wish add their own enhancements, for their own use, though Puppy Linux creator did emphasize trademarks and so on). Nowadays things are certainly different when it comes to Puppy Linux - it is a product of a build system that has been given to the Community, (to you, and to me, to all) a Community-owned distribution (maybe), for the good and bad of that.
FirstRib is young and not in my opinion of any importance to the outside Linux world; not at all like Puppy Linux was in its BK benevolent dictator years. It is a family-oriented distribution (build system), for my own and family's use, but released as open-source for anyone that finds it useful. I don't make any fuss about trademarks in other usage; it isn't an important enough distro to me or anyone really, but it is (liberal MIT) licensed and since I wrote the main build system code, copyright to me. With that license I also have no issues with it being used for commercial purposes - I can't guarantee some of the code doesn't fall under GNU restrictions - some parts might - I think I do, for example, use readline somewhere. I'm not sure - the matter doesn't concern me personally. Certainly no programmer should copy anyone else's hard work without polite acknowledgement, but legalities and lawyer talk is nothing I am ever interested - would be ridiculous in such a small venue. Like rockedge, I have little or no time for lawyers or those who claim to be in that field somehow - so frightening not. FirstRib has no value or importance in my view - but I enjoy it for various reasons in my own use.
So, no, FirstRib (the build scripts and initrd I have created) are not like Puppy Linux in terms of now being a community-owned system; it's open-source, like Puppy was, but I have not retired from developing it and I have family members who will likely take it over from me from our family's point of view. Of course, lots of utilities and much of the individual new distro plugin build code was not written by me at all - my family have no copyright over any such work of others, but that has to be same liberal MIT licensed.
I don't value FirstRib in any big dream sort of way at all. It is what it is, but what it isn't is purposively free-riding on anyone else's back.
Nor does its existence (in KL form here) prevent me having opinions as a long-time Puppy Linux Discussion Forum member about the Community-given distro, Puppy Linux. As a released to the community system, Puppy belongs to me too, and if I think some aspects of it are awful and need improved, then I can and will say so, just like you, whether you support, create, or use other distros too, or not.
So hope that answers some questions and demands. It's not owned by the community. It is my family's build system. What others add to using it, is theirs. No-one outside my family has a right to demand to know who its developers are or force how it is managed (tho there are no secrets); no right whatsoever to change-logs and so on - none of my family time will be wasted on such demands or matters beyond what we chose to release when we feel like it. Since those who have made the demands for information and so on have no interest in FirstRib anyway, and no rights beyond its provided MIT license there is nothing more that should need said on that topic, here or anywhere else. Puppy Linux as a community-given distro/build-system is different - its appointed stewards have inherent responsibilities to the community they represent (to me and to you...), and also to this forum since they have designated it as official and it promotes Puppy Linux first and foremost.
Until Puppy Linux was released as a community build system and distro to you, and me, we had no such rights either. I haven't read the small print for a long time, but I have a feeling Puppy Linux remains under the claims trademark of its creator. FirstRib isn't into any such claims, so at least you don't need to worry about that.
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