Recent discovery using an ISO file boot over PXE on the LAN

[Clarity]

Booting ISO files directly to desktop has several advantage to any user.

The forum is full of descriptions on booting ISO files directly to desktop for the followings:

• ]QEMU

• VM

• ISObooter

• Super GRUB2 Disk

• Ventoy

Each of these work well assuming one follows "best use" approaches that are published.

There is a new approach (approximately 1 year-old) in the Linux world, that is open source that has popped up in this forum community: Namely "iVentoy".

BUT, SO FAR, ONLY 1 Forum distro works. That forum distro's test results are published here. No other forum distro over the past 3 months have successfully booted, while at the same time I have tested many non-forum distros using it without boot issues.

WHY???
Excepting this forum distro's FATDOG, all others when launched are attempting to use GRUB4DOS and this is and has been a root problem in the past; both in and out of the forum. FATDOG, unlike all others in the forum launches via GRUB2 and works straight-away.

This is NOT to say that GRUB4DOS is bad. But, with the issues I have personally been aware of for several years in booting forum distros, I wonder if having GRUB2 as the default selection in ISO file booting would stop the multitude of user reports of boot failures seen in this forum for many years.

For me, iVentoy only exposes a suspicion I have had for several years with forum distros.

If I knew how to change a forum distro such that it would only use GRUB2 to test this suspicion, I would. But, I dont know how. All of these boot managers (SysLinux, GRUB4DOS, GRUB, GRUB2, Windows Boot Manager, LILO,Limine) ONLY serve to properly launch the OS so that a user can get to productive use of their PCs...nothing more. Thus, for me, my only concern is that it works to boot the presented materials...not whether it come from Debian or MS or Apple or ???. The Linux worldwide community continues to invest time and provide security and features for some of the mainline boot methods. In most of the modern forum distros they have a combination that the developers have to spend time jumping from one to another of these to help users boot. This means that the knowledge pool to address all of these combinations in each single forum distro is spread thin just for something so short in its use to get the unit booted.

REQUEST
If there is a forum distro beyond FATDOG that only uses GRUB2 to boot, please post here so that I can test and report back of the experiences I find.

Disclaimer: This thread is NOT an encouragement for anyone to abandon approaches they like; RATHER this thread highlight method that some will find benefit and favor due to its simplicity and lack of need to do ANYTHING except to boot an ISO file's contents to have the full benefit of the forum distro(s). Its mission is to show an ease of use to booting forum distros.

[wiak]

WHY???
Excepting this forum distro's FATDOG, all others when launched are attempting to use GRUB4DOS and this is and has been a root problem in the past; both in and out of the forum. FATDOG, unlike all others in the forum launches via GRUB2 and works straight-away.

The boot folder mechanism @rockedge uses in his KL releases, which I simply copy (albeit with my config changes added such that normal Ventoy boot, via grub2, and so on work on a per distro basis), uses a mix of isolinux, grub4dos, and grub2 EFI configs. I have considered changing that to grub2 only, but there are issues:

This forum, by tradition, has always supported booting on older machines (very old machines even) and, also for Qemu, booting directly from iso (including bare metal). For that purpose, rockedge uses isolinux, but once that finds the iso, the isolinux config in there passes control over to grub4dos, which completes the 'cdrom' boot; at least that's my understanding.

It is a different matter with normal Ventoy: Ventoy finds the grub2.cfg and thus the vmlinuz and the FirstRib initrd (.gz usually). Now neither vmlinuz nor initrd know anything about Ventoy so the initrd has to itself re-find where the iso is, mount it, and access all the required boot component: sfs addons, modules, firmware and so on - I use special Ventoy-related code inside the initrd for that purpose. I know nothing at the moment about the iVentoy you mention, so don't know its boot principle difference from standard Ventoy; sounds like it is different. Note that normal Ventoy booting isn't using that isolinux included stuff at all - and nor is the FR initrd since by the time FR initrd is loaded the boot process is already past that boot-loader choice situation.

SGD2 is a different case again. It doesn't use the isolinux boot mechanism either, but instead searches for a loopback.cfg file and the SGD2 grub2 uses that.

So the issue is to do with actual cdrom booting (including when doing so in Qemu iso-file form), which is the isolinux bootloader part that passes control to grub4dos (using menu.lst thereafter). I suspect the question becomes "can grub2 be used instead of grub4dos?" at that stage, or maybe "can grub2 be used instead even of the isolinux part"?- Since I've not looked into these boot-loader mechanisms much myself, I frankly don't know for sure. What I do know is that some older computers seem unable to boot from gpt formatted partitions (I've tried and failed - though maybe my test was faulty). Also they can't boot using simple EFI files (which modern computers can directly and easily).

But can these really old machines boot from actual cdrom (or similar in Qemu) straight from grub2 (rather than needing that isolinux intermediatery)? If they can't, that would be a reason rockedge elected to use isolinux since on this forum we tend to feel obliged to support pretty much ancient machines (else we'd all simply be using EFI and modern bootloader such as grub2).

I 'suspect' grub2 could be used straight away to boot iso on bare metal in similar fashion to isolinux (and I don't mean as a loopback type boot), but I simply don't have enough knowledge about that. If grub2 can boot ancient machines straight away then that would no doubt be better than current arrangement. Perhaps someone interested in boot loaders should check out how FatDog does it and see if that works on ancient machines too? Eventually using the likes of grub2 only would be best, I feel, since other technologies such as Ventoy definitely also use that.

Having said all that, it 'could' be that the currently relatively simple search-iso type code I provide in FR initrd, which is sufficient to work with standard Ventoy, simply isn't sufficient to work with iVentoy PXE type booting. I wouldn't at all know at this stage. If FR initrd needs expanded with much more thorough 'search' partitions code, then don't hold your breath at this time - it is pretty simple at the moment and for many reasons I like keeping its design/code as simple and direct as possible without too much auto-searching-for-anything.

[Clarity]

... What I do know is that some older computers seem unable to boot from gpt formatted partitions ... Also they can't boot using simple EFI files (which modern computers can directly and easily) ...

Yes, this is well known by many. And, I have a team of old horse where I experience inconsistencies in booting that has me scratching my head depending on both the distro AND the ISO AND the partition AND the partition format AND the disk format and ...

Nothing simple, per se.

I am only indicating an observation and questioning if there is a way to prove some validity or if the manner I am looking at the problem, accurate.

If there is such a GRUB2 only PUP/DOG in the forum community, I would like to test it via PXE to see if it will pass all the tests I do on each of these old horses I have. My newest desktop is a 2016 All-in-One AMD and its touch capability died a year ago. My 2008 HP touch laptop boots and works with all of my tests so far with KLs and DOGs. Some PUPs, like Vanilla v10+ have problems on the HP lappie, so I am aware ... no I am accustomed to inconsistencies and look for them. Then, when found, I try replication on other test PCs.

Like me, its a family of old, tired horses trying to keep up in survival. What I do know and have reported over the years is that SG2D boots all forum distros. It is the one I go to when I experience a boot failure using Ventoy. If it works, I then test similar on another horse. If it fails similarly, then I know the Ventoy exposure is consistent for that PUP/DOG. If its inconsistent, then I it is probably machine related. If SG2D fails across the board, then for a WoofCE PUP, I know that development made some change that is the root cause of the problem is SG2D's exposure of a boot failure.

For months, now, KLs seem to have extinguished the issues seen early on in both Ventoy and SG2D. And I have reported the wonderful work they have done resultantly.

I just recently noticed 1 or 2 of @peebee's most recent distros are booting via both Ventoy and SG2D. This was not the case in the past as they were SG2D ISO file booting only.

My @fatdog REPORT shares that it is the exception to all of this forum's distros in that it is the ONLY 1, so far,which boots via iVentoy's PXE technology. In my analysis, I decided to post this thread to see if my guess to what is observed (evident in the test done thus far with iVentoy and forum distros) really is the issue. And if so, it just might explain a host of other observations we all have had with PUPs over the years with varied issues in booting from time to time.

I wont know so I have made a request for any forum distro which is a GRUB2 only distro to evaluate and test booting. If it boots via iVentoy then that may be a solution that will remove a headache for development and certainly will insure users will be on their merry way with no need to engage development to understand an unnecessary problem.

Anyone who has or knows of a GRUB2 only forum distro, please alert me to test it.

Thanks.

[Clarity]

It anyone wants to test on their own and dont want my involvement, it is simple to do assuming you have a wired lan where one PC can see another.

For me, I already have the PXE service handy from setup. So it takes me 30 seconds to start the service via a simple terminal command. Following this, I merely boot any LAN PC and observe.

If one chooses on there own, I provided the instructions for iVentoy on the FATDOG thread where everything works. My estimate of anyone's time is as follows

1. 4 minutes TOTAL: To download the tiny file and extract iVentoy for Linux to a folder, add an FATDOG ISO file, run iVentoy script and open a browser to complete the PXE service.

2. Then, you merely boot any LAN PC via its network card (via your PC's boot-selector) and observe.

Also, you can add any ISO file of your choosing. I have tested several non-forum mainstream distros validating that they work.

All of what I am doing is with Open-Source, seasoned Linux facilities. This is NOT some sort of creative experimenting.

Report your finding should you test.