BookwormPup64 10.0.8

[dimkr]

can one download the files without it being installed immediately like the standard/old Puppy Package Manager?

apt download

(And PPM also has package lists, that's how it knows what packages exist)

[amethyst]

can one download the files without it being installed immediately like the standard/old Puppy Package Manager?

apt download

(And PPM also has package lists, that's how it knows what packages exist)

Which location is the package and the specific package list file downloaded to (before installation)? BTW - I would like to have (and others I reckon) that option of just downloading without installing when using the apt package manager...

[amethyst]

Thanks, amethyst for the smplayer pet. I'll install it into my SaveFolder. When radky publishes the updated version of Bookworm I'll remove it, or not use the SaveFolder at all.

Just wanted to remind you that your Utility's Save2SFS and Remasters are even more important under Bookworm than Puppys that can more easily manage SFSes. You could have used apt/synaptic to install smplayer; test it, then update 'ydrv' and again operate without a Save or, as I do, use two 'menu.lstings', one with pfix=ram.

Yes, I did actually try to load it as an ydrv but got a kernel panic at reboot. Don't know what happened there must have been related to experimenting with loading sfs's during a session. Best way to go if not using a save file/folder is indeed to pack added packages in a ydrv because loading sfs's on the fly remains iffy with overlays in my view... BTW - I made a new .pet for smplayer using my extraction tool (all of the application package files were not included in the previous package although it works). See the new link for new pet in my previous post.

[radky]

can one download the files without it being installed immediately like the standard/old Puppy Package Manager?

I didn't get an answer for this question of mine (been ignored). So I gather you can't, it must be installed in one go with the apt package manager? If not, I think the apt package manager should have an option just to download the package first without installing it. It seems the whole apt thing is based on a package list which needs to be updated regularly. If you don't work from a package list, it's useless. I mean it seems that you can't just visit a repository site, search for an application and download it...

@amethyst

Yes, the APT package manager can download packages (and dependencies) without installing, but an updated local package list is still required to automatically identify packages currently available in the Debian repositories.

Note: Downloaded packages and dependencies are stored in the APT cache (/var/cache/apt/archives/).

First, run the following command in a terminal to clear the APT cache of all archives previously downloaded:

apt clean

Then, run the following command to (1) update the current package list and (2) download the designated package and requisite dependencies to /var/cache/apt/archives/:

apt update && apt install --download-only <package-name>

---

If you have no interest in APT's ability to automatically find and download a Debian package and all requisite dependencies, you can do it manually.

For example, to manually address your prior request for SMPlayer Media Player, use Google or other search engine to find the package at debian.org (where there are more than 60,000 packages):

https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=smplayer

Choose the package smplayer and click the bookworm option.

This will provide the download link for smplayer, plus multiple individual links for all requisite dependencies.

At this point, you can manually download smplayer and each dependency, and then create your own pet or sfs package that will have all the dependencies required for BW64. Of course, the base BW64 already has many of the dependencies so reinstalling those would be duplicative, but you won't know which to install until you run ldd to check for unmet dependencies.

There are several forum members who graciously do the time-consuming work of compiling applications and/or searching various repositories for requisite packages and dependencies -- all of this to provide a complete application in pet or sfs format for easy installation by other forum members. This is an important legacy method for installing packages in Puppy Linux, and many of us still find such packages useful today. However, for many users, APT/Synaptic (or similar package manager) can greatly simplify package installation in modern Pups.

[amethyst]

There are several forum members who graciously do the time-consuming work of compiling applications and/or searching various repositories for requisite packages and dependencies -- all of this to provide a complete application in pet or sfs format for easy installation by other forum members.

Yes exactly, I'm one of them, I do the odd pet for the community so that's why I'm asking. Personally I don't install stuff, just use sfs's. BTW - Users can use my package extraction tool to extract packages that they have already installed and make it available for the community. The extraction tool extracts the package contents from the running system and repacks it as an sfs.

[dimkr]

apt update && apt install --download-only <package-name>

or:

Code: Select all

root@puppypc:/tmp# apt download smplayer
Get:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 smplayer amd64 22.7.0~ds0-1 [2,032 kB]
Fetched 2,032 kB in 1s (1,912 kB/s)                            
root@puppypc:/tmp# ls smplayer_22.7.0~ds0-1_amd64.deb 
smplayer_22.7.0~ds0-1_amd64.deb

[gyrog]

FYI,
The "yad" in Bookworm doesn't play nicely if you have 2 monitors and you use the "--center" option.
If you

Code: Select all

yad --center

the resulting window ends up half on each monitor, i.e. in the center of a single logical screen.
It seems to be a "yad with gtk3" thing.

[amethyst]

It identifies my old samsung phone but that's it. The application stalls if I want to mount the device and I have to kill it. With Bionic Pup it identifies but I get a mount failure message, however, PupCamera opens then automatically and I have access to the device.

[radky]

It identifies my old samsung phone but that's it. The application stalls if I want to mount the device and I have to kill it. With Bionic Pup it identifies but I get a mount failure message, however, PupCamera opens then automatically and I have access to the device.

@amethyst

PupCamera is a legacy Puppy Linux application which (if I remember correctly) depends on the gphoto utility for digital camera support.

On the other hand, PupMTP depends on libmtp for relatively broad support of MTP devices. The spectrum of supported MTP devices will change with each release of libmtp, and device detection generally improves with each new release.

For the next BW64 release (10.0.3), we can update libmtp from 1.1.16 to 1.1.20 and this which will support additional MTP devices, though not necessarily your old Samsung device.

[amethyst]

It identifies my old samsung phone but that's it. The application stalls if I want to mount the device and I have to kill it. With Bionic Pup it identifies but I get a mount failure message, however, PupCamera opens then automatically and I have access to the device.

@amethyst

PupCamera is a legacy Puppy Linux application which (if I remember correctly) depends on the gphoto utility for digital camera support.

On the other hand, PupMTP depends on libmtp for relatively broad support of MTP devices. The spectrum of supported MTP devices will change with each release of libmtp, and device detection generally improves with each new release.

For the next BW64 release (10.0.3), we can update libmtp from 1.1.16 to 1.1.20 and this which will support additional MTP devices, though not necessarily your old Samsung device.

It detects the device but then the application stalls completely so that you have to kill it. It can detect but still does not support?

[Clarity]

... It detects the device but then the application stalls completely so that you have to kill it. It can detect but still does not support?

Firstly, I want to THANK you for the constant efforts to help with packages. Muchly appreciated by many of us.

Cell-phones
I am not sure you want this, but I'll offer it. For many years, since discovery back in the early days of @01micko over a decade ago, I connect to PUPs via the PUP's SAMBA. I haven't used wires in decades for any reason. And there are certain times using SAMSUNG (Android) that you will use the phone where it can come back and ask you if you want to save something locally or on a LAN PC (automatically). The intelligence for this is great, IMHO.

On my phones (assuming you are on the same LAN subnet as your PUP), I open apps and connect to transfer files to and pull files from the PUP's SAMBA or to any LAN PC that provides SMB protocol services. There are file-manager apps, VLC app, MPlayer app, etc which have the intelligence to connect without any issues.

Assuming you have your PC sharing some Public folder to your network, open one of these apps on your cell phone for network access, select the server (samba) that it sees. Then move or use features of the app for your uses and pleasures. Its the same as if you would use another LAN PC to connect to a SAMBA.

No wires are required or used; and its secure.

IIRC, Samsung has several apps on their own which directly cooperate with a PC, wirelessly. DEX included.

If this is helpful info, run with it.

[dogcat]

It identifies my old samsung phone but that's it. The application stalls if I want to mount the device and I have to kill it. With Bionic Pup it identifies but I get a mount failure message, however, PupCamera opens then automatically and I have access to the device.

I just tested with a samsung android version 10 on a galaxy a02 model (2021 model year)
It connects for file transfer.

1. boot bookworm64
2. plug in my samsung phone to usb port
3. start pupmtp from menu (or whatever it was called, i forget lol)
4. then this window pops up on computer screen

Screenshot1.png (21.9 KiB) Viewed 10709 times

5. phone gives notification "usb file transfer, tap for more options"
if it says something besides "usb file transfer" then tap it to go to the options screen,
then choose "usb file transfer"
6.on computer click mount, it will not mount yet but gives another notification on the phone screen
"allow access for phone data, allow or deny (tap allow )
7. on computer click mount again (so you clicked this same button twice now)
8. and now this new screen pops up

Screenshot2.png (21.33 KiB) Viewed 10709 times

choose open to launch rox and see your phone stuff

[radky]

It detects the device but then the application stalls completely so that you have to kill it. It can detect but still does not support?

@amethyst

If I understand correctly, PupMTP calls simple-mtpfs (which uses libmtp) to identify and mount the MTP device.

The current PupMTP package uses simple-mtpfs version 3.0 (released in 2016), however the most recent version is 4.0 (released in 2020).

If you or other forum members are interested in testing an updated PupMTP package, the following link provides pupmtp-1.2.1_bookworm64_test.pet which includes updated components: libmtp 1.1.20 and simple-mtpfs 4.0.

EDIT: removed testing version of updated PupMTP. Next release of BW64 (10.0.3) will have the update.

[wizard]

When trying to burn an ISO to CD/DVD the Burn Options window opens to large and the buttons cannot be seen. The window will not resize and requires you hold down the ALT key and use the mouse to move the window up in order to continue. Note that the Information text is compressed into the center of the window.

Thanks
wizard

[dogcat]

If you or other forum members are interested in testing an updated PupMTP package, the following link provides pupmtp-1.2.1_bookworm64_test.pet which includes updated components: libmtp 1.1.20 and simple-mtpfs 4.0.

https://www.smokey01.com/radky/Testing/ ... 4_test.pet

hi radky,

just tested the new pupmtp-1.2.1_bookworm64_test.pet against 5 different manufacturers android phones, ranging from android 5 to android 12. they all connected and mounted/unmounted properly. the phone models/android versions were:

LG android 5 (2015 model)
ZTE android 6 (2018 model)
Samsung android 10 (2021 model)
Nokia android 11 (2020 model)
Teracube android 12 (2023 model)

android 5 & 6 versions did not need to be manually put into file transfer mode (not an option for android versions yet)
android 10, 11. 12 needed to be manually put into file transfer mode (a new requirement implemented sometime after android 6)

[MochiMoppel]

When trying to burn an ISO to CD/DVD the Burn Options window opens to large and the buttons cannot be seen. The window will not resize and requires you hold down the ALT key and use the mouse to move the window up in order to continue. Note that the Information text is compressed into the center of the window.

@wizard This is a general problem with gtkdialog applications running in GTK3.

Go to file /usr/local/pburn/pburn and change line 38 to
export GTKDIALOG=gtk2dialog

Even better would be to comment out this line and uncomment and edit the preceding line
if type gtk2dialog > /dev/null 2>&1; then export GTKDIALOG=gtk2dialog; else export GTKDIALOG=gtkdialog; fi #puppy specific
# export GTKDIALOG=gtkdialog

This will most likely fix the length problem and also other issues, e.g. the centered text.
Please report back if this works.

[wizard]

@MochiMoppel

The export GTKDIALOG=gtk2dialog edit fixes pburn, thanks.

wizard

[radky]

just tested the new pupmtp-1.2.1_bookworm64_test.pet against 5 different manufacturers android phones, ranging from android 5 to android 12. they all connected and mounted/unmounted properly. the phone models/android versions were:

LG android 5 (2015 model)
ZTE android 6 (2018 model)
Samsung android 10 (2021 model)
Nokia android 11 (2020 model)
Teracube android 12 (2023 model)

android 5 & 6 versions did not need to be manually put into file transfer mode (not an option for android versions yet)
android 10, 11. 12 needed to be manually put into file transfer mode (a new requirement implemented sometime after android 6)

@dogcat

Thanks for testing, much appreciated !

[amethyst]

It detects the device but then the application stalls completely so that you have to kill it. It can detect but still does not support?

@amethyst

If I understand correctly, PupMTP calls simple-mtpfs (which uses libmtp) to identify and mount the MTP device.

The current PupMTP package uses simple-mtpfs version 3.0 (released in 2016), however the most recent version is 4.0 (released in 2020).

If you or other forum members are interested in testing an updated PupMTP package, the following link provides pupmtp-1.2.1_bookworm64_test.pet which includes updated components: libmtp 1.1.20 and simple-mtpfs 4.0.

https://www.smokey01.com/radky/Testing/ ... 4_test.pet

Same result. Nevermind I'll use an older Puppy with PupCamera which does work for my phone.

[gyrog]

A couple of comments:

1) I hope we are getting great benefits from this "usrmerge" thingo.
I just did a "create new linux-firmware sfs files", and it's doubled the work.
I now need to produce 2 of everything, one for other Puppies, and one for Bookworm.
So I've created and uploaded 'linux_firmware_20230925.sfs' and 'linux_firmware_usr_20230925.sfs'.
And similarly for the targeted firmware sfs's I do for each of my machines.

2) FYI:
I'm now running Bookworm on kernel 6.1.53, which I downloaded form woof-ce github, "kernel-kit-output-usrmerge-6.1.x-x86"

[mikeslr]

gyrog, "1) I hope we are getting great benefits from this "usrmerge" thingo... and it's doubled the work."

It's not our choice. It's something debian and Ubuntu decided to implement; and Slackware didn't. Puppys are woofed to use the binaries (and libraries) of those Major Linux Players and/(so as to be able to) use applications built for them OOTB.

The only alternative we have --something I don't have the skill set to do-- is to modify both woof and Puppy Package Manager (and as Bookworm and some others now include apt & synaptic, those as well) to provide a consistent file-structure across all Puppy Versions regardless of what source is used. A daunting, but not impossible, task.

Something similar happened when 64-bit architecture was implemented. Debian/Ubuntu chose to add three new folders for 64-bit libraries at the Top level, under /usr and under /usr/local, all named x86_64-linux-gnu. Slackware chose instead to create a series of /lib32 and /lib64 folders. ItsMeRSH's application PaDS 1.1.4 --which had worked flawlessly to combine multiple source packages into an SFS under any 32-bit Puppy-- did not work under debian/ubuntu Puppys. His solution, published as PaDS 1.1.7, was to automatically move libraries from folders named x86_64-linux-gnu to corresponding /lib folders.

My recollection was that that procedure was not required for Slackware packages to be used in either Slacko OR debian/Ubuntu based Puppys. [And, if I recall my exploration of the problem at that time, a different working solution was to rename debian/Ubuntu folders to /lib64]. My suspicion was that Puppy's initrd contained instructions to recognize /lib32 and /lib64 folders. At that time, 01micko headed woof development; and 01micko specialized in creating Puppys that were binary compatible with Slackware.

My exploration of the 'use-merge rule' is that it is a restriction rather than an command: Other than the OS creator --and a Puppy Dev is not a creator in that sense as Puppy is derivative via woof-- files can NOT be located in Top level folders. But they don't have to be located under /usr. Unique to Puppys is the /root/my-applications folders: bin and lib. I had some, but not consistent, success converting the applications which use Top-level folders by moving their content into appropriate folders under /root/my-applications. Sorry, can't locate my posts about this.

[dimkr]

1) I hope we are getting great benefits from this "usrmerge" thingo.

A working package manager that doesn't break your system and installs dependencies correctly (apt) > unmaintained package manager that doesn't really work or destroys your system (PPM)

A kernel built from the Debian kernel source plus firmware from Debian, plus out-of-tree drivers installable using apt > having to maintain and test everything ourselves, and no easy way to install things like the NVIDIA driver unless we develop an alternative to DKMS

Easier future development of Puppy > consistency with old Puppy releases

It is possible to build dpup without the /usr merge (configurable in woof-CE and this is the default - I know because I implemented this). However, the traditional layout is no longer the default in Debian (one of the few distros that let you choose instead of forcing the new structure) and that means many consequences. Ubuntu has switched long ago, and some applications don't work when you install them with apt in a Puppy built from Ubuntu 22.04 packages, unless you opt-in to use the new layout: expect a similar situation in dpup, and more frequent problems once Debian completely drops support for the traditional layout.

[mikeslr]

Comparing the alternatives --the theoretical work-arounds of my post-- with the practical consequences explained in dimkr's, creating and maintaining two versions of kernels is obviously the more efficient and preferable.

[wiak]

I only tried this because of other thread about HDMI audio use. The provided kernel modules firmware combination wouldn't boot on my newish hp laptop but easy just switching to alternative, which I did. Probably nicest full-featured Pup I've seen in a long time. Good that it's moved to usrlib arrangement like Arch Linux used for long long time. The old unix days of wanting to mount /boot, /bin, and /sbin on separate partition from read-only /usr are long over. Back then /usr was often only attached to already boot system later; as an nfs network mount.

Only thing not used here that will be dominant later is Wayland. But as an X windows release it is particularly nice, probably best, modern Pup release.

[radky]

The provided kernel modules firmware combination wouldn't boot on my newish hp laptop but easy just switching to alternative, which I did...

@wiak

Thanks for testing Bookworm Pup64.

The Woof-CE generated kernel and firmware of BW64 derive from upstream Debian, so hardware support is relatively broad. Does your Hp laptop have very new hardware that might require driver/firmware support not yet available in BW64 ?

[wiak]

The provided kernel modules firmware combination wouldn't boot on my newish hp laptop but easy just switching to alternative, which I did...

@wiak

Thanks for testing Bookworm Pup64.

The Woof-CE generated kernel and firmware of BW64 derive from upstream Debian, so hardware support is relatively broad. Does your Hp laptop have very new hardware that might require driver/firmware support not yet available in BW64 ?

No, it is newish for me, but not that new or state of the art. Odd it didn't boot then. I don't have time to check why just now, but will look into that sometime. Possibly some module I need to blacklist.

[dimkr]

Possibly some module I need to blacklist.

Or a module that needs =y instead of =m. If this is the case, it's an easy fix if you share the output of lsmod and dmesg.

[wiak]

Possibly some module I need to blacklist.

Or a module that needs =y instead of =m. If this is the case, it's an easy fix if you share the output of lsmod and dmesg.

I would have, but can't - it crashes prior to any commandline becoming available. A quick debug with breakpoints in /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit revealed that with provided kernel/modules/firmware my system crashed at

udevadm trigger
udevadm settle -t 20

I can tell you that replacing its vlinuz/zdrv/fdrv with that from most recent Vanilla Dpup and it boots fine. See attached screenshot after booting with that kernel.

All I have time to say further is that my computer is a HP Probook 430 G8

with
11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1165G7 @ 2.80GHz
RAM 32GB
Type DDR4
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics] [8086:9a49] (rev 01)
DeviceName: Onboard IGD
Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics] [103c:87df]
Kernel driver in use: i915
Kernel modules: i915
Multimedia audio device [0401] Intel Corporation Tiger Lake-LP Smart Sound Technology Audio Controller [8086:a0c8] (rev 20)
• Kernel Driver sof-audio-pci-intel-tgl
▶—— Input Devices ——◀

• AT Translated Set 2 keyboard
• USB Optical Mouse
• Intel HID events
• Sleep Button
• Lid Switch
• Power Button
• Power Button
• PC Speaker
• ELAN072F:00 04F3:316C Mouse
• ELAN072F:00 04F3:316C Touchpad
• Video Bus
• sof-hda-dsp Mic
• sof-hda-dsp Headphone
• sof-hda-dsp HDMI/DP,pcm=3
• sof-hda-dsp HDMI/DP,pcm=4
• sof-hda-dsp HDMI/DP,pcm=5

[dimkr]

I can tell you that replacing its vlinuz/zdrv/fdrv with that from most recent Vanilla Dpup and it boots fine. See attached screenshot after booting with that kernel.

From 9.3.x, 10.0.x or a 11.0.x development build?

Bookworm Pup64 should use the same kernel as 10.0.x, but probably lags behind by one or two Debian stable updates.

(You can use pfix=rdsh to extract logs at an early stage)

[wiak]

I can tell you that replacing its vlinuz/zdrv/fdrv with that from most recent Vanilla Dpup and it boots fine. See attached screenshot after booting with that kernel.

From 9.3.x, 10.0.x or a 11.0.x development build?

10.0.x

The issue isn't worth bothering about, using further time over, if likely to be updated for Puppy users later anyway.