Some Qs about installing and operating Puppy on an externally mounted SDD

[williwaw]

As a matter of interest, how difficult is it to create a portable? I have no Linux coding expertise at all

not all that hard. I find "how to" sites like the following quite useful
https://linuxconfig.org/linux-tutorials

specific examples close to your project needs can often be found with search at......
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/257 ... -line?rq=3
lots of free resources on line with linux

[mikewalsh]

@ChrisH :-

Mm. 'Kayyy...

You might have trouble "breaking free" from Windows if you have to run Vassal. Although Java works just as well under Linux, it requires Java 11 OR NEWER.....and the newest version of the 'standard' Java runtime available for Linux is, I'm afraid, only Java 8.

There's nothing to stop you from downloading a newer version of Java.....but I've never explored the newer versions, because they've now moved to a subscription model, along with totally changing the way Java functions, and introducing a ton of features that are essentially optimised for developers. Naturally, the newest Java 17 is available for Windows - - and the Windoze version works just like it always has.

But not, apparently, for Linux....

Which leaves you with the scenario of either trying to run it under WINE, or - worst case scenario - setting up a VM, installing Windoze inside it, then running current Vassal on that. Seems a LOT of hard work just for a single game...

Mike.

[ChrisH]

I think it would have been best to partition the SSD as follows:

Partition 1 FAT32 4GB (or whatever size you require to allow storage or transfer of the files you want to read across all OSes). FAT32 is happily read by either Windows, Mac or Linux. This partition holds bootloader files and data files.

Partition 2 EXT4 Storage for Puppy files and any data files or programmes/utilities/portables you plan to use. Not readable by Windows so don't use this to transfer files between OSes. Can use this for personal files too (or could add a second EXT4 partition for that purpose)

Partition 3 Linux SWAP. If you are using save file or save folder techniques then set this to 1GB - 2GB range. If you are not going to use save file or save folder (ie using personalised sfs or adrv instead of savefile) then make this SWAP partition 20-30GB

Hi @greengeek , I actually partitioned the SSD into 1 x FAT32 @ 512Mib (the size @shinobar recommends in another post) for the boot files, 1 x ext4 @ 19Gb for the Puppies, save folders and portables, etc., and then another ext4 using the remaining space (less a small, 1.5Gb reserve) for the data. I've also now partitioned most of the remaining space as NTFS, at the behest of @williwaw just to see whether Windows would see it . I've omitted the swap as I've sufficient ram and never seen the need. Regards, Chris

[ChrisH]

@ChrisH :-

Mm. 'Kayyy...

You might have trouble "breaking free" from Windows if you have to run Vassal. Although Java works just as well under Linux, it requires Java 11 OR NEWER.....and the newest version of the 'standard' Java runtime available for Linux is, I'm afraid, only Java 8.

There's nothing to stop you from downloading a newer version of Java.....but I've never explored the newer versions, because they've now moved to a subscription model, along with totally changing the way Java functions, and introducing a ton of features that are essentially optimised for developers. Naturally, the newest Java 17 is available for Windows - - and the Windoze version works just like it always has.

But not, apparently, for Linux....

Which leaves you with the scenario of either trying to run it under WINE, or - worst case scenario - setting up a VM, installing Windoze inside it, then running current Vassal on that. Seems a LOT of hard work just for a single game...

Mike.

@mikewalsh Thanks Mike. Sigh. I'll have to give that some thought. The Vassal engine is pretty tolerant of running with mismatched versions, so I could try one of older versions. If the worst comes to the worst I'll just have to play on the Acer desktop using Windows.

[ChrisH]

@mikewalsh Hi Mike, it appears that version 20 of Java is available for Linux here https://www.oracle.com/uk/java/technologies/downloads/. I'm not sure whether you didn't spot this (less likely) or I'm misunderstanding whether this version is in fact usable in Linux (maybe more likely). Maybe I should give it a try and see? Regards, Chris

[mikewalsh]

@ChrisH :-

Heh. It's not quite as simple as it at first appears, mate. You need to understand a wee bit about how the Java eco-system is structured. I'm no expert on this subject, but as I understand it, there's two main types.....Java SE (Standard Edition), and Java EE (Enterprise Edition). For our purposes, ignore the Enterprise Edition, because for personal use it's completely irrelevant.

As I understand it, Java SE is further sub-divided into two main categories:-

• The JDK - this is the development kit, for those wishing to write/build their own applications - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Development_Kit

• The JRE - this is the 'run-time environment', built specifically for actually running Java applications. Of necessity, this is the part that interests the end-user.....the PC owner - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(sof ... nvironment

Your link there is for the Development Kit, the 'JDK'. This will NOT run a Java application, because it's not built to do so. And just to further 'muddy' the waters, although Windoze has a 'run-time' version of the latest 20-series release, M$ have frequently been accused of not adhering to the cross-platform specifications, and of including Windows-specific code in Windows builds that make it incompatible with the cross-platform nature of Java.

Typical MyCrudSoft anti-competitive 'bullying' tactics. As usual.

-----------------------------------------

For Linux, the most up-to-date, current build of the JRE 'runtime' that is generally available is the "8u371" build, released sometime in April this year.....just a matter of weeks ago. This translates to 'Revision 371 of the 8-series build'. The 8-series was first introduced almost 7 years ago, and as I understand it, Oracle plan to support the 8-series indefinitely. There is NO planned 'termination' date for it anywhere in the calendar.

Bottom line? Ya want to run a Java app requiring a much newer runtime, you're stuck with Windows. Or MacOS. 'Cos Linux ain't getting anything beyond the 8-series anytime soon.

(On your link page, over to the right, near the top, is the bit end-users need - the button marked 'JRE for consumers'. Follow that through, then hit the big green download button.....and it takes you to the following page:-

https://www.java.com/en/download/

.....where it clearly tells you that the recommended current build is "Version 8 Update 371", along with the release date of April 18th this year, literally just a few weeks ago.

I tried running Vassal from the terminal with the current Linux JRE run-time. It immediately complains that the installed JRE is too old to run the application, and to install a newer runtime environment. Which for Linux, simply isn't available. Newer development kit, yes. Newer runtime......mmm; apparently not.)

Looks like you'll be stuck with the Acer for some time to come.

(*sigh...*)

Mike.

[wiak]

For Linux, the most up-to-date, current build of the JRE 'runtime' that is generally available is the "8u371" build, released sometime in April this year.....just a matter of weeks ago. This translates to 'Revision 371 of the 8-series build'. The 8-series was first introduced almost 7 years ago, and as I understand it, Oracle plan to support the 8-series indefinitely. There is NO planned 'termination' date for it anywhere in the calendar.

Bottom line? Ya want to run a Java app requiring a much newer runtime, you're stuck with Windows. Or MacOS. 'Cos Linux ain't getting anything beyond the 8-series anytime soon.

I think you are wrong there, Mike.

If you are in a Ubuntu Jammy distro, for example, you can install the following:

openjdk-19-jre - OpenJDK Java runtime, using Hotspot JIT

via:

Code: Select all

apt update && apt install openjdk-19-jre

assuming use of sudo or root user login

that just installs the JRE as far as I'm aware.

Next ubuntu dev version probably has openjdk-20-jre in its repository, but I haven't checked.

More generally, the site you want to go to is: https://openjdk.org/

Whether there is any difference with these openjdk variants I wouldn't know (but doubt there would be really for running most java apps - just different license). Try and see!

[mikewalsh]

@wiak :-

I thought of that, Will, and tried it earlier before I went out into the garden for a couple of hours weeding/lawn-cutting, etc. No good.

You use any of the JDK variants, and trying to run any 'end-user' Java app from the terminal, they all insist there's no 'run-time' installed. Comparing the contents of the JRE packages with that of the JDK packages, I can't say I'm surprised. The components are totally different; the 'libs' in the JRE actually ARE libs, while those in the JDK package are more like binaries, with some weird suffix that I've never seen before (probably all to do with compiling/assembling into the 'bytecode' format that Java uses).

Be that as it may - I'm no programmer, and don't pretend to be! - all I know is you can't use the JDK to 'run' anything. For the average 'end-user', it doesn't appear to work.

(I could, of course, be wrong. As we all know, I frequently AM.....I've never thought of myself as any kind of expert where computers are concerned. A 'Jack-of-all-trades', perhaps..? )

(*shrug*)

Maybe somebody else can figure this one out. I, personally, don't have the required interest; JRE 8u371 works for me, and does what I want. That's good enough.

EDIT:- Perhaps this JRE component you're talking about is in the /ubuntu/pool/ archives? I may take a look, and see what I can find....

Mike.

[ChrisH]

@ChrisH :-

Heh. It's not quite as simple as it at first appears, mate. You need to understand a wee bit about how the Java eco-system is structured. I'm no expert on this subject ...

@mikewalsh Hi Mike, sorry to be slow to reply, we've been on holiday acting as unpaid babysitters for our grandson . You say you're no expert on this subject but trust me, your way ahead of me. So I'll just thank you for taking the trouble to reply so fully and leave it there. Apart from that the only possible answer for me is to go back to a much earlier version of Vassal and try that. The system itself is pretty tolerant of using out of date versions because the majority of the game modules are old and rarely updated so it's quite possible that I'll still be able to play most of my favourite games using an earlier version. The only snag will be if the Vassal server refuses access. Regards, Chris