Partition information for Puppy

[Black Knight]

I know this subject has been addressed on the forum many times, that is where most of my info came from and some from the basic mad web. I'm trying to put the info that I've learned together to either validate or improve it. I found bits and pieces in different areas and hope to get it consolidated a little bit.

I know that sizing and choice of type of partition can be quite subjective to the individual.

This is what I have so far. Thanks in advance for any input.

All this is going onto a 500G SSD usb. I would like to set it up frugal with multiple partitions.
I may even create a partition for a Puppy full install as on some occasions I use it to get onto the computer to fix faults in my Frugal Puppy. I could just probable set up a thumb drive and do the same.

Partition 1: boot
Partition 2: basic data
Partition 3: swap file (NOT on SSD as write/rewrite can damage the SSD)
Partition 4: save file & sfs etc.
Partition 5: Puppy full install (optional)

I'm aware it can all be put onto one partition, but for ease of restore/reloads/future expansion it will be safer with several partitions.

Partition 1: boot - FAT16, FAT32, Ext2, Ext3, Ext4 can all be made bootable. (Is this correct?)
Recommended size 1-2G, as that can handle anything from a Frugal to full install,
which makes the partition more usable if I change my mind.

I'm considering using Ext2 format as the bootable partition.

Partition 2: data - As a separate partition that may use TRIM for cleanup as this is where the data
will change more often. Considering using Ext3 or Ext4.
Size of partition is what ever I think I need.

Partition 3: Swap, 2x RAM size. As I only have 2G RAM I might need swap.

Partition 4: Save file/save folder?
And/or sfs files and similar.
Size: 1-2G. May be a bit large, but I have the space.

Thanks for teaching me what you already have. Now it's time to find out if I pass my first test.

Once I get the basic info above straightened out, I can start formatting my disc and move to loading my OS and all supportive info.

This is getting fun.

Big thanks.

BK

------------------------------------------------------------------
This is edited in after what I learned to share the outcome. Hope it helps.

After some great support on this forum and some very good links for education, I think that the SSD is up and running just fine. Below I am showing how I set it up, one: to verify that I got it right and, two: to share with you what appears to be a good way to set up a SSD USB.

Partition 1: FAT32, 2GiB, boot
Extended: 12GiB
Ext4: 10GiB
Ext4: 10GiB, swap
Unallocated: 40GiB
I created a save file of 2GiB
I chose Ext4 because of journaling and TRIM

[williwaw]

Partition 1: boot - FAT16, FAT32, Ext2, Ext3, Ext4 can all be made bootable. (Is this correct?)

yes, EXT,2,3,4 if you want to stick with MBR bootloaders. If you want the option of booting with an EFI bootloader, then the boot partition needs to be FAT. I have a USB with FAT and both EFI and MBR.
Make the first partition on the drive FAT for the EFI bootloader and allow a bit oversized if you think you might want to have some files on the drive accessible when plugged into a windows machine.
(windows only sees the first partition and refuses to let you see ext-2,3,4)

why segregate frugals from save files?
I simply have an ext4 partition for my frugals and their saves, each frugal and save kept in it's own folder. An ext- for the saves allows the use of save folders in addition to save files,
FAT partitions requires the exclusive use of savefiles. (the older way and less convienent)
(every once in a while I back up the entire second partition to a different usb connected disk with rsync)
you can always leave some of the 500G unallocated for now

to fix faults in my Frugal Puppy. I could just probable set up a thumb drive and do the same.

easiest

[sucuklu yumurta]

I'm considering using Ext2 format as the bootable partition.

ext4 has been recommended as a bootable file system for the last few years, I wanted to pass on what the experts have written

[Chelsea80]

@ Black Knight

I offer this web site for your reading on file systems -

https://www.howtogeek.com/33552/htg-exp ... ou-choose/

OR

Enter into your search engine:

Difference between ext2 ext3 ext4

As you would expect a load of results come up -

I would go along with @ sucuklu yumurta seeing as you are going to use a modern 500GB SSD USB -

Good luck -

Best regards

Chelsea80

[Black Knight]

@ Black Knight

I offer this web site for your reading on file systems -

https://www.howtogeek.com/33552/htg-exp ... ou-choose/

OR

Enter into your search engine:

Difference between ext2 ext3 ext4

As you would expect a load of results come up -

I would go along with @ sucuklu yumurta seeing as you are going to use a modern 500GB SSD USB -

Good luck -

Best regards

Chelsea80

That link is what I was looking for.
Thanks

I took a quick look at it and will read it fully later.

I can see more learning and question coming from it.

Good

BK

[Black Knight]

Partition 1: boot - FAT16, FAT32, Ext2, Ext3, Ext4 can all be made bootable. (Is this correct?)

why segregate frugals from save files?

I have my puppy os on a thumb drive now and the save file on the main system hard drive.
I boot the OS from the thumb drive then I remove it.
Why?, you ask.
I might be wrong with this. I thought that the save file should be separate from the fugal OS on the thumb drive.
I also had the impression that if it was on the thumb drive I could not remove the thumb drive from the usb port and have access to the save file until I plugged the thumb drive back in so I could update the save file.
I am sure you know more and will get me on the right track.

I am missing something here.
I will learn something here.

Thanks

BK

[mikewalsh]

@Black Knight :-

Chelsea80's link is worth a read. I'll offer this one, too:-

https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gparted.html

It's from a guy who goes by the handle "dedoimedo". His blog offers a quirky, humorous look at the modern world of computing, with reference to Linux in particular. This, from him, is the most comprehensive guide to partitioning with gParted that I've ever seen.....all written in nice, clear, easy-to-read English. Definitely worth perusing, too.

------------------------------------------------------

I'll echo williwaw. Don't separate saves and SFSs from your frugal installs. Puppy will expect to find both alongside its own system SFSs.....the main Puppy SFS, the zdrv (kernel modules), the fdrv (firmware), possibly an adrv (additional apps, etc). It might look "messy" to the untrained eye, but trust me, everything works far more efficiently that way!

However, you CAN run a save-file / folder from a faster HDD/SSD if running from a flash drive (if you want to). This is personal preference. As far as removing Puppy to free up a USB port, I know it can be done, but I don't know the ramifications of doing so. I've never done things this way myself!

Each Puppy can live in its own dedicated, uniquely-named directory (folder) on the same partition. Pup's modified Grub4DOS bootloader will search two layers "deep" to find a bootable kernel.

------------------------------------------------------

As far as formats go:-

• FAT16/32 - necessary for EFI booting, but for installs will necessitate the older save-FILE (it contains a Linux file-system within, under an Ext- format). These are 'fixed' in size. Can be enlarged easily, but shrinking is rather involved (involves creating a new, smaller empty save-FILE and copying the contents over). Not recommended until you're a bit more familiar with Puppy's modus operandi!

• Ext2 - okay for flash drives (sort of) because of its lack of 'journalling" (file-system metadata).....but it corrupts easily, and when it does it cannot be recovered.

• Ext3 - has "journalling". Absolutely fine for all Puppies.

• Ext4 - has "journalling". Newer version of Ext3. Used by all mainstream distros. Also fine for Puppies.

With the use of Ext (2, 3 or 4), a save-FOLDER can be used. This has the advantage of being able to expand or contract in size, depending on contents, up to the maximum amount of free space available in that partition. It's probably fair to say that most of us use the save-FOLDER nowadays; the save-FILE hails from an earlier period in Puppy's history.

Any queries, ask away. We'll get you "sorted", one way or another.....sooner or later.

Mike.

[williwaw]

I thought that the save file should be separate from the fugal OS on the thumb drive.
I also had the impression that if it was on the thumb drive I could not remove the thumb drive from the usb port and have access to the save file until I plugged the thumb drive back in so I could update the save file.

not neccesarily should be seprate but can be if you want
there is also a feature in EasyOs to run with drives locked down or physically removed as a security enhancement

[bigpup]

Partition 4: Save file/save folder?
And/or sfs files and similar.
Size: 1-2G. May be a bit large, but I have the space.

Way to small in size.

If this is the stuff on the partition.

Needs to be in much bigger size.

10GB or more will be usable.

A save can eat up 2GB of space in not too long a time.
All programs you run will use space in the save.
Depending on the program depends on how much space.

SFS packages are getting bigger and bigger and will use more space. Well depends on how many SFS packages you have stored in the partition.

A swap file or a swap partition work the same way.
Both are a set amount of space on the drive to use as swap.

Yes a Puppy version on a USB stick is what you want for a repair OS.
Who knows, the Puppy install that is bad, may be also a bad drive, that may not even boot to any OS, installed on it.
Plus the bad drive is not mounted in any way, so can be fully worked on by Gparted or any repair programs.

[Black Knight]

@Black Knight :-

Chelsea80's link is worth a read. I'll offer this one, too:-

https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gparted.html

I

Any queries, ask away. We'll get you "sorted", one way or another.....sooner or later.

Mike.

Another great help with a link.

I would rather have good links to learn from and do my own learning work instead of repeating the same questions and answers of a beginner. Keeps the forum less congested.

I can not be offended from being told I am wrong.
I am only offended if I don't learn it.
That is on me.

I prefer to be sorted SOONER that later.

Thanks

BK

[Black Knight]

Thanks to the help and support to the people on this forum, I am ready to share what I think I have learned and get it validated or improved about partitions.

The links sent to me by two people here were very helpful. Good read.

Any and all advice would be great. Thanks.

Here's where I'm at with partitioning and structuring of the SSD usb.
I'll be making this SSD dedicated to Linux.

Partition 1: Linux OS, bootable, 1-2G, Ext4.
Partition 2: Extended, will contain my logic partitions. Ext4. I'll be making it bigger as I have the space.
Swap folder is located on the hda so as not to wear out the SSD.
Save folder should be closer to 10G in size to hold the saves and any other SFS etc.

I have chosen to use Ext4 because of journaling and TRIM abilities.
I would like to open a new thread on the subject of journaling and TRIM later so as not to confuse this thread.

I have a question about the save folder location. It's been recommended I put it on the same partition as the OS. I currently have the Linux OS on a thumb drive usb and the save folder on the system hard drive and it works. Yes, it was in the belief it would increase security and limit any corruption on the thumb drive because I can simply remove the thumb drive and still have access to the save folder.

So my question is: is there really any security risk by having the save folder on the same drive as the OS?
Am I just fooling myself by thinking there actually is a security benefit by removing the thumb drive after it's been loaded into RAM? Remember, I am a beginner, and my viewpoints might be a little off.

I don't want to delve into security risks too deeply here and confuse this thread. If needed, I can start another thread on this later.

If it's been proven it's okay the save folder be on the same partition as the OS, then it's okay for me too.

Please let me know of any and all corrections.

BK

[Black Knight]

@ Black Knight

I offer this web site for your reading on file systems -

https://www.howtogeek.com/33552/htg-exp ... ou-choose/

Thanks for this link. Good read.

I've posted what I think will work best from what I've read. I would like your input to see if I am correct.

Thanks again.

BK

[Black Knight]

@Black Knight :-

Chelsea80's link is worth a read. I'll offer this one, too:-

https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gparted.html

Thanks for this link. Great help.

I have posted my new learning on partitions. Please take a look and let me know if I got it right or I need to learn more.

Thanks again.

BK

[Black Knight]

@Black Knight :-
However, you CAN run a save-file / folder from a faster HDD/SSD if running from a flash drive (if you want to). This is personal preference. As far as removing Puppy to free up a USB port, I know it can be done, but I don't know the ramifications of doing so. I've never done things this way myself!

I don't want to go too deep into removing the thumb drive for security because you've been leaving it plugged in for years without any issues. So it might just be my "beginner" idea? I have been running it this way for a number of years without any issues that I know of. Maybe if I do it the conventional way and make it a saved folder, not a saved file, and have it on the same drive as the OS, the save function might be quicker and cleaner and with no loss in security. What do you think?

Should this be another thread to stop any confusion?

Thanks.

BK

[williwaw]

the save folder location. It's been recommended I put it on the same partition as the OS.

why not the same folder as the install ?

perhaps a thread outlining your specific security concerns?

if you are concerned something might be modified or infected such that it would persist until a later boot, then it would have to persist in your savefile/folder
If I understand your present setup correctly, you are unplugging the device that is immutable.

you can always boot into a session without using the save file/folder

Partition 1: Linux OS, bootable, 1-2G, Ext4.

good size, and make it the first and a primary partition,
you can always make it FAT later, but why not now?

[mikewalsh]

@Black Knight :-

I think you'll be fine in this thread for now. It IS all related, anyhow.

O-kay. Let's see if we can correct one or two "misconceptions"......easy to form; most of us have been there in our early days with Puppy, if only because many Puppy concepts/practices are just sufficiently different enough from 'normal', mainstream Linux that it can sometimes leave you doubting yourself, and thinking, "Well.....that can't be right, surely....?"

Welcome to the wonderful, slightly 'offbeat' - but fun! - world of the Puppy 'kennels'!

--------------------------------------------------------

This whole business of 'wearing out' flash memory is something of a moot point these days. Especially SSDs. Yes, they were somewht 'fragile' in the early days of the technology, but we've now reached the stage where BackBlaze - a major cloud storage provider, who have been publishing wear & tear reports on their fleet of thousands of drives for many years - have now decreed that SSDs are in fact AS reliable, if not MORE so than traditional hard drives.

That's a pretty solid endorsement of just how far SSD technology has advanced over the last decade or so, wouldn't you say?

I treated myself to a 1 TB Crucial MX-500 SSD last year, to replace the original 1 TB Toshiba HDD that came in this HP rig. Not because there was anything wrong with the Toshie, but just as part of a general upgrade campaign I've been waging on this rig since I took delivery of it 3 years ago. TBH, with the kind of read/write speeds possible with these things, in addition to the huge leaps forward in reliability, it simply made sense to keep the save for each Puppy in that Pup's own sub-directory, alongside the main Puppy system files.

250 MB/s 'write' and ~500 MB/s 'read' speeds are quite fast enough for this old dog...

(Save-folders don't need to be 'sized' in the same way as the traditional save-file; simply tell Puppy to create one when it asks you at the end of your first session, and it automatically expands/contracts to suit the contents. Like ANY directory does, in fact...)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, regular usage of SSDs then means you need to attend to T.R.I.M, or 'rubbish collection & general tidying-up'.....to put it in layman's terms.

The necessay binary for T.R.I.M to work - fstrim - comes as standard with most current, modern Puppies.....but even for older Puppies it simply needs installation of the "util-linux" package, available through the Puppy Package Manager in most cases.

You CAN set this up to run as a regular 'cron' job, but since it really only wants doing once a week for most folks (unless you're a very 'heavy' user, in which case every 2-3 days would probably be beneficial), I built my own, wee GUI utility for running this thing manually, and have set up a weekly reminder that puts up a gtk-dialog box once every hour for 24 hrs.....so I have NO excuse for forgetting it!

If you're interested in giving 'TRIM4SSD' a look, you can find the thread here:-

TRIM4SSD

Perhaps some of the above may help.

Mike.

[Black Knight]

@Black Knight :-

I think you'll be fine in this thread for now. It IS all related, anyhow.

O-kay. Let's see if we can correct one or two "misconceptions"......easy to form; most of us have been there in our early days with Puppy, if only because many Puppy concepts/practices are just sufficiently different enough from 'normal', mainstream Linux that it can sometimes leave you doubting yourself, and thinking, "Well.....that can't be right, surely....?"

Welcome to the wonderful, slightly 'offbeat' - but fun! - world of the Puppy 'kennels'!

--------------------------------------------------------

This whole business of 'wearing out' flash memory is something of a moot point these days. Especially SSDs. Yes, they were somewht 'fragile' in the early days of the technology, but we've now reached the stage where BackBlaze - a major cloud storage provider, who have been publishing wear & tear reports on their fleet of thousands of drives for many years - have now decreed that SSDs are in fact AS reliable, if not MORE so than traditional hard drives.

That's a pretty solid endorsement of just how far SSD technology has advanced over the last decade or so, wouldn't you say?

I treated myself to a 1 TB Crucial MX-500 SSD last year, to replace the original 1 TB Toshiba HDD that came in this HP rig. Not because there was anything wrong with the Toshie, but just as part of a general upgrade campaign I've been waging on this rig since I took delivery of it 3 years ago. TBH, with the kind of read/write speeds possible with these things, in addition to the huge leaps forward in reliability, it simply made sense to keep the save for each Puppy in that Pup's own sub-directory, alongside the main Puppy system files.

250 MB/s 'write' and ~500 MB/s 'read' speeds are quite fast enough for this old dog...

(Save-folders don't need to be 'sized' in the same way as the traditional save-file; simply tell Puppy to create one when it asks you at the end of your first session, and it automatically expands/contracts to suit the contents. Like ANY directory does, in fact...)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, regular usage of SSDs then means you need to attend to T.R.I.M, or 'rubbish collection & general tidying-up'.....to put it in layman's terms.

The necessay binary for T.R.I.M to work - fstrim - comes as standard with most current, modern Puppies.....but even for older Puppies it simply needs installation of the "util-linux" package, available through the Puppy Package Manager in most cases.

You CAN set this up to run as a regular 'cron' job, but since it really only wants doing once a week for most folks (unless you're a very 'heavy' user, in which case every 2-3 days would probably be beneficial), I built my own, wee GUI utility for running this thing manually, and have set up a weekly reminder that puts up a gtk-dialog box once every hour for 24 hrs.....so I have NO excuse for forgetting it!

If you're interested in giving 'TRIM4SSD' a look, you can find the thread here:-

TRIM4SSD

Perhaps some of the above may help.

Mike.

Very nice well put together info.

Absolutely interested in learning trim and more as I become ready.
I don't want to get ahead of my self and miss some basic foundation part of setting up the puppy os.
Trim kinda reminds me of ms defrag. Compressing and cleaning up a drive. Am I close?
Offbeat works for me. That is why I have chosen to use linux Puppy for 4 years now.
I also chose puppy because of it's flexibility and a form of freedom.
Now it is time for me to learn more about it so I can take advantage of what puppy can do.
I know I have more to learn than I know now. Good.

Thanks for clearing up the issue on ssd wearing out. Got it now. Not an issue.
Might give the areas that write and rewrite a lot a bit more space just in case.

I will not think "that something can't be right that I read on this forum" I know I am here to learn what I don't know.
I know many on this forum know what I need to learn and I will read and learn.

Thanks

BK

[Black Knight]

the save folder location. It's been recommended I put it on the same partition as the OS.

why not the same folder as the install ?

perhaps a thread outlining your specific security concerns?

if you are concerned something might be modified or infected such that it would persist until a later boot, then it would have to persist in your savefile/folder
If I understand your present setup correctly, you are unplugging the device that is immutable.

you can always boot into a session without using the save file/folder

Partition 1: Linux OS, bootable, 1-2G, Ext4.

good size, and make it the first and a primary partition,
you can always make it FAT later, but why not now?

I will follow the normal way of setting up the savefile/folder as there seems to be no real security risk doing so. I could just make backups of the save folder and if I get some corruption just delete and replace it.
Or I could have a complete puppy OS back up with it's save file and reload this if I have issues.
Am I going in the right direction here?

I will read again on the primary boot partition being Fat32 or ext4 so I can learn what is correct.
I may have misread that part.

Thanks for the input.

BK

[mikewalsh]

@Black Knight :-

Personally, I would have said T.R.I.M is one of those things that needs learning about at an early stage of the process. It may not be a Puppy-specific item, but it's fairly fundamental to keeping this type of hardware in good working order.

Trim kinda reminds me of ms defrag. Compressing and cleaning up a drive. Am I close?

Um.....sort of. But not really. SSDs work very differently to HDDs.

Recommendation with SSDs is to leave around 10% of the total drive space unformatted. The reason for this is quite simple.....because it makes life much, much easier for the "controller" chip. Which, in its turn, all contributes toward a longer life-span for the drive as a whole.

An HDD will simply overwrite data 'in-situ'. Not so an SSD. An SSD deals with 'blocks' & 'pages' of data at a time, so the controller 'maps out' the entire drive to look at it that way. And the 'block' is the smallest unit the controller will work with (this is larger than a 'page'). If one single byte of data needs to be changed/deleted in any given location, the block containing the 'page' where that byte is located has to be temporarily copied off to one side. The original 'block' has to then be deleted. A new block is created, the contents of the 'copy' PLUS the changed byte of data are then written to the new 'block', and finally the original, temporary copy is deleted.

The controller chip needs some space to perform this stuff, as blocks/pages are taken 'out of service', modified, then marked as ready for re-use & rotated back into service again. And this is going on millions of times a second, all over the drive, in lots of different locations simultaneously..... Naturally enough, even with the best 'house-keeping' routine in the world, given the sheer scale of all this, 'artifacts' WILL get left behind, here and there.

And that's where T.R.I.M comes in. To clear away those left-overs, and - working hand-in-hand with "garbage collection" - to just generally tidy-up.

These guys can explain it better than I can:-

https://www.crucial.com/articles/about-ssd/what-is-trim

(Sorry if we're giving you information overload..! Take it in at your own pace; as I've remarked before, it's not a race. The objective is that you digest that information, and ultimately manage to retain it in a way that you can understand it...for future reference.)

Mike.

[Black Knight]

Things are looking good as far as partitions go and I will be trying different set ups so I can learn more.

Now my next question. Please excuse my limited terminology.

I have read there can be an image file I think is called ISO that can be installed on the boot drive.

I also saw some indications that you can just load the needed OS files on to a bootable partition and that can work also.

Are there two ways of doing it and is one better than the other?

Or are there two ways for different set ups?

I hope my limited terminology is not confusing.

Thanks again

BK

[Black Knight]

you can always make it FAT later, but why not now?

Good question.
I think the answer you need is: I am making a dedicated Puppy linux drive, so no need to have file transfer with windows.

Do I have this correct yet?

Thanks

BK

[williwaw]

you can always make it FAT later, but why not now?

Good question.
I think the answer you need is: I am making a dedicated Puppy linux drive, so no need to have file transfer with windows.

Do I have this correct yet?

Thanks

BK

a fat partition is required if you ever need to boot with UEFI and most linux distros are by default nowadays
most hardware made in the last 10 years supports UEFI, some earlier hardware expects to find it on the first partition and I would not be suprised if future hardware will be unable to boot on the older bios (non-UEFI)

[Black Knight]

you can always make it FAT later, but why not now?

Good question.
I think the answer you need is: I am making a dedicated Puppy linux drive, so no need to have file transfer with windows.

Do I have this correct yet?

Thanks

BK

a fat partition is required if you ever need to boot with UEFI and most linux distros are by default nowadays
most hardware made in the last 10 years supports UEFI, some earlier hardware expects to find it on the first partition and I would not be suprised if future hardware will be unable to boot on the older bios (non-UEFI)

Thanks Each bit of learning helps.

All versions of Puppy (UEFI or non-uefi), will install and work, on the old legacy bios.
Found this info by bigpup

So, on older hardware, like my lenovo r60 with legacy bios, if I want to use newer puppy distros I would need
fat32 to work with the newer distros?

So, if I understand correctly fat32 is more flexible and compatible making it a better choice?

Would this set up work?
primary partition fat32 bootable
extension partition could be ext4 with journaling and trim for the ssd???

I am still learning.

Thanks for the input and questions.

BK

[williwaw]

So, on older hardware, like my lenovo r60 with legacy bios, if I want to use newer puppy distros I would need
fat32 to work with the newer distros?
Not neccesarily "need" at this time with Puppys, but if you have other OS's on the disk in the future, then most likely

So, if I understand correctly fat32 is more flexible and compatible making it a better choice?
yes

Also, if the ssd is tethered by USB, you might want to use it on other machines, especially if you decide to travel with just your USB SSD. Most machines are set up to boot from UEFI.
Its one thing to tell a machine to boot from the USB disk, but if you also have to reconfigure the machine BIOS from UFEI boot to legacy boot, then it's more research and work to boot.
you can have both a UFEI bot loader and a MBR bootloader installed, but UEFI still needs a FAT, and MBR works fine with either FAT or EXT-4

[williwaw]

I have read there can be an image file I think is called ISO that can be installed on the boot drive.
there are various ways to install and each drive needs a bootable partition, but the install does not have to be on the boot partition

I also saw some indications that you can just load the needed OS files on to a bootable partition and that can work also.

Are there two ways of doing it and is one better than the other?

Or are there two ways for different set ups?

BK

It would help to link to something explaining each of the alternatives you are considering before one can say if one is better than the other.

there are also more than two ways to skin a cat!

[Black Knight]

So, on older hardware, like my lenovo r60 with legacy bios, if I want to use newer puppy distros I would need
fat32 to work with the newer distros?
Not neccesarily "need" at this time with Puppys, but if you have other OS's on the disk in the future, then most likely

So, if I understand correctly fat32 is more flexible and compatible making it a better choice?
yes

Also, if the ssd is tethered by USB, you might want to use it on other machines, especially if you decide to travel with just your USB SSD. Most machines are set up to boot from UEFI.
Its one thing to tell a machine to boot from the USB disk, but if you also have to reconfigure the machine BIOS from UFEI boot to legacy boot, then it's more research and work to boot.
you can have both a UFEI bot loader and a MBR bootloader installed, but UEFI still needs a FAT, and MBR works fine with either FAT or EXT-4

This is starting to help a lot.
Thanks

So. let me try again to test what I think I have learned.

Fat32 is cross compatible and reverse compatible with more machines, bios and distros?

This makes my portable ssd work more often with less issues?

I am sure there is more to this, but am I getting closer?

Then can I use ext4 in the extension partitions for journaling and trim for the ssd needs?

You say we can install both ufei and mbr. How is that done??? Sounds like a good idea.
I am getting the impression that if ufei and mbr are both loaded that I may not need to change the bios boot order??? Not sure I am even close on this question.

This is getting good.

Thanks

BK

[williwaw]

pretty much yes to the Q's above

You say we can install both ufei and mbr. How is that done??? Sounds like a good idea.
I am getting the impression that if ufei and mbr are both loaded that I may not need to change the bios boot order??? Not sure I am even close on this question.

you could install a mbr bootloader with Grub4dos, available on most puppies.

you will tell it to install the needed files on the first partition (along side any efi directories that may install with your puppy of choice)

when you partition, you would need to set both the boot flag (to make mbr work) and the esp flag (to make UEFI work) on the first partition

the boot order that is set in BIOS orders which disk is scanned for first.

a typical order might be
1. cd (if your machine has an optical drive)
2. USB
3. HDD

if there was no cd in the tray nor any USB device plugged in, then the HDD would boot with whatever OS is on that device, possibly windows?

If your USB was plugged in then the menu on your boot loader as configured on the USB SSD would allow the choices
should you have both a UEFI bootloader (and corresponding menu) installed and the machine was set to priortize UEFI. then the UEFI bootloader would do its thing.

If the machine does not have UEFI, or legacy boot is configured in bios, then grub4dos would load your boot menu and OS

After you install your first puppy on the USB SSD you could boot it and make your save on the first boot. on second boot, run grub4dos and test by reconfiguring your BIOS

the above scenario presumes your machine is set to boot UFEI first.
what puppy are you booting now and which bootloader brings up the menu choices.

[Black Knight]

pretty much yes to the Q's above

You say we can install both ufei and mbr. How is that done??? Sounds like a good idea.
I am getting the impression that if ufei and mbr are both loaded that I may not need to change the bios boot order??? Not sure I am even close on this question.

you could install a mbr bootloader with Grub4dos, available on most puppies.

you will tell it to install the needed files on the first partition (along side any efi directories that may install with your puppy of choice)

when you partition, you would need to set both the boot flag (to make mbr work) and the esp flag (to make UEFI work) on the first partition

the boot order that is set in BIOS orders which disk is scanned for first.

a typical order might be
1. cd (if your machine has an optical drive)
2. USB
3. HDD

if there was no cd in the tray nor any USB device plugged in, then the HDD would boot with whatever OS is on that device, possibly windows?

If your USB was plugged in then the menu on your boot loader as configured on the USB SSD would allow the choices
should you have both a UEFI bootloader (and corresponding menu) installed and the machine was set to priortize UEFI. then the UEFI bootloader would do its thing.

If the machine does not have UEFI, or legacy boot is configured in bios, then grub4dos would load your boot menu and OS

After you install your first puppy on the USB SSD you could boot it and make your save on the first boot. on second boot, run grub4dos and test by reconfiguring your BIOS

the above scenario presumes your machine is set to boot UFEI first.
what puppy are you booting now and which bootloader brings up the menu choices.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am glad you said "pretty much yes to the Q's above" yay! about time.

Now it looks like I can set up my ssd in a good way and start installing Puppy OS.
I want to try different puppys to find out what works best for me and my system.

We currently have puppy xenial 7.5 on thumb drive, frugal and works good.

On start up of thumb drive I see a puppy live window with boot options.

xpup normal start up
xpup file system check
xpup with no save file
xpup with out graphical desk top
for machines with severe vidio problems

When looking at puppy system info we do have grub4dos and legacy options.

Thanks for the info on how to set the rom bios. I have done this before and it works great.

Now I can start partitioning the ssd correctly.
Load an OS or two.
Play with grub4dos
Then find out what more I don't know and ask more questions.

Thanks much

BK

[Black Knight]

I now have an operating SSD USB.
This SSD will be dedicated to Puppy Linux only.

This has been a very good journey working with the Puppy forum. I had a pretty good understanding of how to install Puppy on a thumb drive but I am very glad that I worked with the forum and learned a lot more about how to do it and the great supportive links and knowledge that came with it. My installs are much better now and I think I might know a little more on how to do it right.

One of the links that helped me learn what I did, the writer of the article helped me to understand an attitude change that happened with Puppy Linux. It seems to have changed from some forum members being anti-other distros and anti-new ideas to now being very progressive and helpful. Nice change. Helps the learning curve tremendously.

Big thanks for the help I've had personally. I know I will need more soon.

And another big thanks for Puppy being what it is and the changes you did to the forum.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is where I'm at now.

After some great support on this forum and some very good links for education, I think that the SSD is up and running just fine. Below I am showing how I set it up, one: to verify that I got it right and, two: to share with you what appears to be a good way to set up a SSD USB.

Partition 1: FAT32, 2GiB, boot
Extended: 12GiB
Ext4: 10GiB
Ext4: 10GiB, swap
Unallocated: 40GiB
I created a save file of 2GiB
I chose Ext4 because of journaling and TRIM

Any corrections to this are still welcome.

BK