System Updates?

[steve46814]

Before landing on Puppy, I test drove several other distros. Each of them had a small icon in the tray that, when clicked on, checked for, and installed, system and application updates. Now, I don't see anything like this in Puppy. I find versions of Package Manager, NG, NG (cli) and (legacy), with no explanation as to why there are three, or how they differ. And "legacy" only has an Uninstall button, no add or update.

So how does Puppy get the needed updates? It is done automatically? I noticed after I booted up my Puppy session that, without touching my keyboard or mouse, there was a lot of Network activity. Right now, I see Net:"TDown:4.94MiBTUp:3.0 on the statistics display on the right side of the screen. Is the system "phoning home", spying/sharing data on me, or am I seeing system/apps being updated with no input from me?

I didn't really find clear explanations of how updates are triggered. If someone was kind enough to direct me to, documentation, or better yet, or take a moment to explain to me how system and application updates are handled, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks, Steve

[dogcat]

how programs are updated depends entirely on puppy version, some of them are all manual, some of them not
which puppy version are you asking about?

[steve46814]

Looks like my system is FossaPup64 CE, Linux 6.0.12-FP, from the conky display.

So, is this a version that auto-updates? How does one know?

Thanks, Steve

[dogcat]

FossaPup64 CE has the auto update feature removed. Just did an install and had minor network activity after saving and rebooting.

Network activity in conky should be minimal when established, mine is Tdown 1.55k and Tup 2.66k

Maybe you installed a program that is doing an update?

Also a good idea to activate the firewall using the default settings, right click on red shield in the tray and it walks you through.

[dogcat]

One more info, there are programs that auto start. Those have files that start the programs in two directories.

/root/Startup
/root/.config/autostart

For what its worth, in this screenie are the default files in those locations that autostart stuff, you can compare with yours to see if something snuck in there.

[steve46814]

Well, we're getting into the weeds here, so thanks for the screenshots. The weeds are a bit over my head at this point, the screenshots really help.

When I go into /root/.config, and /root/.config/autostart, everything looks the same as your example. So that must be good.

But that doesn't tell me which files are the one(s) that check to see if there are any updates available, so could you please indicate to me which are the ones that accomplish this, or explain how all that magic happens - if indeed my system does the auto-update thing.

Also, I struggled some getting this data as the only app I could find was Menu->Filesystem->MM_View, which looks completely different from your screenshots, and is of little value. Could you share with me which app you used for your screenshot examples, so I can see if I can find and install that same one? I did eventually find the files through a terminal session.

Thank you very much for your time and effort to respond to my question.

Steve

[dogcat]

I misunderstood what you were asking, forget about what I wrote about auto starting programs and such. I thought you were concerned about the network activity that you did not ask it to do. I will try to actually answer your concerns this time

FossaPup64 CE has no official update mechanism. It is totally up to you to add programs that you choose.

As a convenience, there are some commonly used programs (browsers, etc.) in the quickpup program located at
Menu-->Setup-->quickpup fossa

The Puppy Package Manager is the package manager for installing and removing software.
Menu-->Setup--> Package manager (Legacy) - this is the legacy old package manager

The file manager in the screeny is ROX, it is the default file manager in puppy linux. It opens when you click on a drive icon or the "File" icon at upper left of screen. Or launch Rox-filer using the menu at
Menu-->Filesystem-->Rox-filer

Another file manager in the menu is Xfe. Many people like it better than Rox-filer, it is similar to the old windows file manager.
Menu-->Filesystem-->Xfe

To do a screen shot use
Menu-->Graphic-->Take a shot!

This is the specific thread dedicated to FossaPup64 CE with a lot of info. Everyone friendly no matter what you ask
viewforum.php?f=197

FossaPup64 User Contributed Packages are here, compiled and built using Fossapup
viewtopic.php?t=1239

The best way to find out what something in the menu does is open the program and take a look. Or do a forum search of the program name will bring up some info.

[dimkr]

Puppy has no update mechanism, it's up to you to decide if and when to replace the Puppy you're using with a newer one.

The "update" thing in 9.5's quickpet just downloads and extracts http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... a64fix.zip, last changed 2021-Jul-04

[peebee]

dimkr is correct - Puppy does not have an automatic update mechanism - the user is in control and initiates updates as and when they feel / detect they are necessary.

The main "update" mechanism centres on the fact that Puppy is installed as a small number of read-only .sfs files (frugal install only - full install is NOT recommended) and these can be replaced by obtaining an updated .iso and extracting the new .sfs files from that .iso

In some instances as well as complete new .isos, developers can provide xdelta files which generate a new .iso from a previous .iso

In the particular case of FossaPup64 no new .iso has been produced for quite some long time.....

Builds on Github are more likely to have regular .iso updates

There is no list of which builds are being regularly updated - you have to obtain this info from the threads on the forum.

[Jasper]

You can choose to have switch your kernel by simply switching over to a different build. These typically include fixes to security loopholes, bug fixes to problems, better hardware compatibility, improved stability, more speed, and occasionally major updates also bring some new functions and features.

This is a manual process and there is a subsection "Kernels" that contain these.

Also, a useful tool to add another layer of security to your OS is to use Firejail

https://firejail.wordpress.com/

[dimkr]

You can choose to have switch your kernel

Upgrading the kernel without updating userspace components like X, openssl, etc' is better than nothing but not the same as having a fully patched system. (And if you don't update userspace, it probably won't take advantage of new features in your upgraded kernel.)

[xenial]

In my experience regular updates will or could break something..i think it is more important to keep your chosen browser updated rather than individual applications which if they are working correctly then why update them.

[Jasper]

.........is better than nothing

hahahahha I will take that as a small win

[geo_c]

As has been mentioned, puppies do not autoupdate or do what we call system updates, they are not "rolling releases" or anything of that nature. They are basically fixed at the point they are released in iso format in .sfs read-only files.

This is considered a feature and not a bug, as it has many advantages: once working on hardware (especially older hardware) it will not be updated to the point of failing on older hardware, it will always work on that hardware. It can be copied anywhere easily and installed and run anywhere by simply copying the system files and the savefile/folder and installing a bootloader to launch it.

If using a system "frozen in time" is not your cup of tea there are other options available in the puppy community. The standard puppy is updateable in the manner that a user can install newer versions of applications/system frameworks manually using the package manager, but this may require working out conflicts and configurations.

The updateable distros on the forum are known as dogs and kennel-linux distros. KLV-airedale is perhaps the most polished Kennel-Linux distro and has a graphical package manager called Octo-Xbps which allows for easy system updates. It's basically a Void-linux distribution installed frugally. Moving around and installing saved copies of Dogs and Kennel-Linuxes is more complicated than moving Puppies. Portability is the feature set of a Puppy imho, system updating is the feature set of a Kennel-Linux/Dog.

I use both. I may have 10 or more puppy-forum OS installed and available at any given time. But I usually focus on 3 or 4 as daily drivers.

They all have their strengths and conveniences.

At the moment those are:
F96
fossapup64_9.5
KLV-airedale
KLV-Xfce

[steve46814]

Whew! Kicked up a bunch of dust here. A lot to digest.

Conclusion: Puppy does not auto-update, or update (most) distros. I get it, compatibility is a significant asset and makes a lot of sense. However, there are a lot of bad guys out there trying, and frequently seceding, in compromising otherwise stable software - both OS and Apps. So the network activity I see after booting into my Puppy is not any updating of the operating system, and I presume this holds true for any of the bundled applications as well.

My experience goes way back to DOS 3.1. My first computer was a TI-99a (yes, I am amongst the elderly), which I still have, (and still works). I've seldom seen an OS or application that does not benefit/need upgrading from time to time - many times because of security issues.

So now, I am really curious as to why there is so much network activity right after booting. Who/what is downloading and uploading so much data on my system at boot up. Does the fact that I am currently running my Puppy distro from a persistent USB Memory Stick factor into this?

Is there telemetry going back to developers who use this data to "enhance" the user experience, as one might see in the Windows environment? What can be the explanation for this traffic?

Thanks to all you took the time to get involved in this discussion, and for the tips - I found it most enlightening.

Steve

[mistfire]

So how does Puppy get the needed updates? It is done automatically? I noticed after I booted up my Puppy session that, without touching my keyboard or mouse, there was a lot of Network activity. Right now, I see Net:"TDown:4.94MiBTUp:3.0 on the statistics display on the right side of the screen. Is the system "phoning home", spying/sharing data on me, or am I seeing system/apps being updated with no input from me?

I didn't really find clear explanations of how updates are triggered. If someone was kind enough to direct me to, documentation, or better yet, or take a moment to explain to me how system and application updates are handled, I would greatly appreciate it.

Puppy by default does not have update package feature. If you want system update capable Puppy, QuickPup64 was capable to update package (main puppy packages only).

[bigpup]

So now, I am really curious as to why there is so much network activity right after booting.

This is because Puppy is setup to boot to a working desktop as quick as possible.

Run the needed software and procedures to get a network connection up and running as one of the last things to complete.

It is normal to have a network connection established a little time after getting to a working desktop.

If you have a Web browser running.

A lot of them (if set to auto update) will go look to see if there is browser update to download and install.