No "x' from USB live session

[steve46814]

I have an older Dell desktop running Windows that I would like to set up to dual boot with Fossapup64 9.5. Booting up from a USB flash drive fails to start "x". I have made several attempts to get xwin to start, using xorgwizard, with no luck.

I went out searching the forums and find that Nvidia graphics card don't play nice with Fossapup, apparently. Using xorgwizard I did specify Nvidia under the "set video driver" section. It came back and said, "xorg video driver set to Nvidia. However, xwin still fails to start x.

I have tried 3 other distros and all run just fine on my system. But Fossapup64 seems really interesting, and I would like to get a little deeper into it by getting to run on my system, so I thought I would seek assistance on this forum to see if this can be accomplished. I am an experienced Windows user, but understand/know very little about Linux.

With all the distros that are apparently available, someone surely has created one that works with Nvidia.

Looking forward to all the help,

Thanks - Steve

[mikeslr]

Hi steve46814, and to the Forum.

I've got a couple of questions. But first, read this post, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... p=816#p816. As bigpup writes at the end, "The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem."

What are the specs of your computer? Specifically, which Nvidia card? How did you install Fossapup64 to the USB-Key?

The reason for the last question is that Puppys are modularly built and to boot any operating system requires a boot-manager which reads instructions from a text file. Modular building ordinarily enables a user to swap the Kernel and the hardware drivers compiled against it; if one set of drivers doesn't work, a different kernel with its associated drivers might. And ordinarily the text file providing instructions to the boot-manager can be edited. For example, in order to install nvidia drivers it sometimes is necessary to first include in the text file an argument such as "puppy nouveau.modeset=0 vga=776" https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtop ... 95#p981695 in order to boot into Puppy at all. But most boot-installers don't understand Puppy and create a READ-ONLY USB-Key.
There's a work-around for the problem of not being able to edit the boot instructions. But it's of little value as it would have to be used at every boot-up if you can't write to the USB-Key.

But before you get 'deep into the weeds', may I suggest that rather than Fossapup64 you consider F96-CE_4, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 882#p85882. Like Fossapup64 it is binary-compatible with Ubuntu 20.04 (focal fossa) and can use the same software. Not that using F96-CE_4 will solve the nvida problem. But it (and the default kernel it uses) include 3 years of Ubuntu and Kernel developers 'bug fixes' and 'security patches' along with improvements Puppy Devs have themselves developed.

There are several other Puppys that you might consider, such as S15pup64 (Slackware Current binary compatible) and Another Jammy64pup (Ubuntu 22.04 binary compatible). Those and others will be found in the Mainline and Puppy Derivatives Sections. All are good operating systems, each a little different; and everyone has a favorite. F96-CE_4 is just currently my 'go-to' Puppy. Having primarily used Fossapup64 for a couple of years, I've built up quite a menagerie of applications both can run. F96-CE_4 just runs a little better. So I can think of no good reason a 'new-comer' should start with the 'older model'.

[steve46814]

Wow! What a great response. A bit overwhelming though. Again, let me say that I am coming from Windows and pretty much lost here. But here is what I do understand, and that is, what is the computer that I am attempting to use here? So here goes:

Dell desktop XPS8500
OS is Windows 8.1
CPU is i7-3770
GPU is Nvidia GeForce GT 640
SSD Samsung 870 EVO 2TB
16MB Memory
Dell U2312HM Monitor
Netgear A6210 Wi-Fi USB3.0 Adapter
Nord VPN
Boot Mode: UEFI with Secure Boot disabled.
Loading Fossapup64 from a USB memory stick/thumbdrive created from an .iso file formatted using Rufus.

This computer has been relegated to a "backup" machine, but I do need to keep it in working order, so I must be careful with what I do to it. I was hoping to setup a dual boot configuration to get some additional use out of it by installing a Linux system to learn on. I have tried three other Linux distros, loaded into "Live" mode, from a USB memory stick with no issues, having the use of the graphical interface.

I have read the entire post and followed the links, several times. However, I have to admit. I'm still pretty lost. Got the part about 'include in the text file an argument such as "puppy nouveau.modeset=0 vga=776" ', but don't comprehend the how and where to accomplish this.

Appreciate the suggestion to use F96-CE_4, and I think I will, but there are four download choices from that link, and I don't know which to use - and where/how to get that destro to work with my Nvidia GPU.

Again, thank you for such a comprehensive response to my plea for help. I hope my ignorance won't dissuade you from further assisting me.

Thanks, Steve

[mikeslr]

@bigpup. I've never had a computer using nvidia graphics. I think I flinched the advice about modifying the Kernel line to provide use "puppy nouveau.modeset=0 vga=776" from one of your posts. Perhaps you can take it from here, or alert someone you know who can.

steve46814, running Windows rufus is one of the two programs I know will properly deploy Puppy to a USB-Key. Lick is the other. But even with rufus there are two hurdles. One is that rufus versions 3.18 and 3.19 can't be used. The other is explained in this post, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 522#p40522.

Hopefully, this short 'Layman's version' will explain the above. Puppys consist of a number of READ-ONLY files included in the ISO. These are copied into RAM on boot-up. On first shutdown --or until you do-- you'll be offered the opportunity to Save your settings, configurations and user-installed applications. To Save them requires a Write-able partition. For a technical explanation see, How Puppy Linux Works, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=5818 and How Puppy Linux Save Works, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 818#p63818

Briefly mentioned in the post about rufus was "But if later you create an adrv.sfs or a ydrv.sfs --or other READ-ONLY SFSes which will automatically be used on boot-up-- those SFSes may require some space" and a link to the application to do so provided. The reason you may want to do this, especially running a Puppy from a USB-Key, is that Puppy will then run entirely from RAM and after boot-up you can unplug the Key. It's pretty hard for hackers to permanently compromise an operating system which isn't there.

[bigpup]

First not all Puppy versions work on all possible computers.
Fossapup64 9.5 may not be a good one for your specific computer.

Booting up from a USB flash drive fails to start "x". I have made several attempts to get xwin to start, using xorgwizard, with no luck.

First no Puppy version comes with Nvidia drivers installed to use.

They all have the generic nouveau driver for Nvidia hardware.
This driver is not specific to any Nvidia hardware, but is designed to run them all, within reason.

The Nvidia GT 650 is a very old card.
So the Nouveau driver is trying to do things it does not support well.

Several things will have to be tried and maybe one will work for you.

If you can get to a point in the boot process where you can run xorgwizard.
In xorgwizard select vesa driver.
Set resolution to one you know works.
Set color depth to 24.
Exit xorgwizard.
Back at prompt type xwin.
Press enter.

What happens?

[bigpup]

What format did Rufus make the USB drive partition?
fat32
ntfs
What?

[steve46814]

It's impressive all the advice and help being offered - thanks to all.

Let me see if I can address some of the items here. I did use Rufus 3.17 as I read somewhere that later versions didn't work with Puppy. As to how it was formatted, unfortunately I did this awhile back and can't remember. I have been trying to sort this out on my own for a while, but I finally gave up and turned to this forum for help. Now I'm going to make an assumption and say that since I can boot into Fossapup64 from a USB memory stick, and get to a terminal session, that formatting the memory stick is not at the core of the problem. The problem is getting "x" to run.

When I run xorgwizard, after being prompted to right after booting, I tried every option presented by the "xorg server 1.20.0". I've tried all options under section 2, which is where vesa is a choice. Now, of the three choices there, none do anything. In section 3 I've set the screen resolution to 1920x1080, the native resolution of the monitor. In section 4 I set the color bit depth to 24. Again, running xwin does nothing. The last choice is "*specify" where I input "Nvidia" and got the response "xorg video driver set to nvidia". Yet again, xwin fails to start x.

Yes, my Nvidia card is 9 years old, which is 63 in dog years, but I read all the time about how others have been able to get really old computers to run well on an obsolete platform. One of the draws of Linux is that it often runs well on legacy hardware. I have been able to run three different Linux distros on this computer off the USB stick in a "live" session with no issues, x runs just fine, and all boot directly into the window/graphical interface.

I hope I haven't confused the issue by saying that booting into Fossapup64 with my USB memory stick leaves me in terminal. Maybe I should be saying "BASH" instead. Still trying to learn the lingo!

Thanks again for all the great replies,
Steve

[mikewalsh]

@steve46814 :- to the "kennels".

I don't quite understand why your GT650 is giving you problems, I must confess.

I run a GT 710. Yes, it's that card - the one the gamers all like to take the p**s out of! Not that I use it for gaming; they don't really interest me. But it runs under F96-CE_4 without any issues, utilising the built-in "nouveau" kernel driver module.

Most of my Pups, I've compiled the official driver for, but some I'm not able to for various reasons. Still, those that use the "nouveau" driver module have no problems with doing so.

--------------------------

Like yours, this is an OLD design. I bought mine brand-new just 3 years ago; ASUS have kept a variant of this card in their stable for several years, and it's actually very underrated.....far more capable as a day-to-day card than most would have you believe. Too many folks are obsessed with numbers, and are convinced that the more you have of something, the better it must be.... I was more concerned with two facts:-

• It only draws 19W total, so the slot will power it - this HP Pavilion desktop rig uses a peculiar, custom HP-designed PSU that is almost impossible to replace - and

• It's a fanless, 'passive-cooler' design, so no fans dementedly buzzing away, giving me a headache!

Question:- Is yours, in fact, a GTX 650? The only reference I can find for a GT 650 was the GT 650 m mobile GPU. Even so, you're Kepler-powered, so essentially the same gen as mine.....and mine runs like a dream under Puppy.

------------------------------

If we can get you up-and-running, you can have a go at installing the official driver (if that's something you'd be interested in). This is the one you'll want:-

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverR ... 634/en-us/

.....which is the last one that supported the GTX 650 / GT 650m. Puppy's own GetNvidia driver install utility - courtesy of one of our Japanese members, Shinobar - is really easy to use. We can talk you through it if necessary, and @bigpup has posted a thread on how to use it.

Mike.

[bigpup]

First what format the partition is tells me if you can write to it to change an entry in the boot loader config file.

Again not all Puppy versions will work on all computers.

Fossapup64 9.5 may not be a good fit for yours.

That is why Puppy Linux offers several versions to choose from.

Fossapup64 was developed when a lot of changes were made to how graphics hardware got supported during the boot process.
Newer versions of Puppy have improvements to this.
As you have seen, xorgwizard seems to not work using the Vesa driver, which should be possible.

What I think is the problem is the modesetting the Nouveau driver setup is trying to use.

I assume when you boot you first see a menu with options for how to boot Fossapup64.

First one is normal boot.

Look down the boot menu entries for one that looks like this:

"fossapup64 9.5 - No KMS (Kernel modesetting)"

Try that one.

Any help?

[steve46814]

Two things here. First, somewhere along the line my GT 640 got changed to a GTX 650. In fact, it is not, it is a GeForce GT 640. Now, I believe this makes very little difference and is a moot point. I did have the driver from the Nvidia website, a bit earlier version, 64-470.161.03.run as opposed to 64-470.182.03 (thanks for the link - confirms I was on the right track), I just don't know what to do with it.

Next I tried booting up using "No KMS (Kernel modesetting)" as suggested. Essentially yielding the same result. I do see a message saying: "ls cannot access /sys/class/drm/card*/device/vendor" No such file or directory. BusyBox vl.31.0 (2019-08-05 23:29:36 +08) multi-call binary. Type "xwin [jwm] to restart x, [mean optional]" and "xwin -default [jwm]".

Tried both versions of running xwin. But of course nothing happened. Expected, as I don't understand what options to add, and I do not get a man entry for xwin (#man xwin) to help me out. And if I understand this right, xwin is a Puppy unique command where other distros use "startx". Remember, I'm completely new to all this.

I would like to try F96-CE_4, but I find four links to download and I don't know which to choose. I could use some guidance here. Also, from the discussions here:
What format did Rufus make the USB drive partition?
fat32
ntfs
What?
It seems I need to pay attention to the formatting options rather just assuming the default values are correct. I can't recall what I used before, but here again, advice as to which format I should be using with Rufus 3.17 would be appreciated.

A big thanks again for all the interest and suggestions posted here.

Steve

[mikeslr]

This is F-96's 'Latest Stable Release's' opening post, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 882#p85882. It is customary on this Forum that there be a link on it to the latest version. [Devs get criticized for not following that custom unless the dev is not the owner of the thread]. So you'll find there the link to the latest ISO, to wit: https://rockedge.org/kernels/data/ISO/F ... 6-CE_4.iso.

You'll also find on the OP links to the devx.sfs and Kernel Sources.sfs. These are not necessary to run the Puppy. But are, I understand, essential to compile applications. They provide a complete compiling environment. [I don't compile]. SFSes are not installed. You Right-Click them and from the pop-up menu select sfs_load which mounts them. sfs_load is a toggle. You use it again to unmount.

A dozen years before 'the big boys' discovered Flatpaks and Snapds, Barry K (Puppy's creator) and Puppy devs developed the use of SFSes to facilitate the use of applications as-and-when you want them; and remove them when not needed so as to conserve RAM and avoid their conflicts with other applications. You may recall when computers rarely sold with more than 256Mbs of RAM and additional RAM was expensive.

Regarding using rufus 3.17, I recommend that while running Windows you open a web-browser to this post, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 522#p40522 and follow its recipe step-by-step.

[steve46814]

Bingo - we have a winner.

F96-CE_4 works just fine on my computer now. And somehow I've managed to save my sessions back onto the thumb drive. Chock that up to beginners luck and a lot of help from folks replying to my post. Thanks to all who took the time and trouble to respond - I really appreciate it.

Thanks, Steve

[mikewalsh]

@steve46814 :-

Bingo - we have a winner.

F96-CE_4 works just fine on my computer now. And somehow I've managed to save my sessions back onto the thumb drive. Chock that up to beginners luck and a lot of help from folks replying to my post. Thanks to all who took the time and trouble to respond - I really appreciate it.

Thanks, Steve

We do what we can to help. "Our Pup" takes a bit of getting used to, but IMHO she's worth that little bit of extra effort.

Again; to the "kennels". Glad to have you on-board!

Don't be a stranger. We're always here, either for technical help.....or just for a chinwag.

Mike.