ChromeOS

[ozsouth]

I guess as it's based on Linux, it's another distro of sorts. The crostini subsystem is debian buster, running in a container. Might be some useful tips folk have to share here. Also, some who have chromebooks might like to be able to to run Puppy off a usb stick without killing chromeos. I've some interest in that, so hopefully this is appropriate.

[xenial]

Seems a rather stonewalled os.No visible way of installing third party apps for example and everything naturally seems to centre around the googlesphere.

not my cup of tea.

[bigpup]

chromebooks might like to be able to to run Puppy off a usb stick without killing chromeos.

That has already been figured out.
See this topic:
viewtopic.php?t=431

I too found ChromeOS to be very Google specific, with everything you do.
But it does allow Chromebooks to be the low price they are.

It does do what you expect an operating system to do.

[sonny]

ChromeOS is without a doubt the most successful Linux flavor out there in the consumer (mainstream) market. Distributed ISO (distro) for free download is a "DIY" thing and "DIY" is not for the greater good but enthusiasts (forum mobs etc). Consumer market is all about "DIfY" (Do It for You) or preinstalled (at least, not in a form of live/install USB). That's one reality check from the big G.

[ozsouth]

In 2018, Crostini was introduced to Chromebook. This is a game-changer for me. Most of today's Chromebooks should have it (all HP's seem to). Now, if you choose to enable Crostini, most debian buster software is available, via apt in a terminal (sideloading is possible). Once installed, it works (almost) seamlessly, with taskbar icons an option and is readily updated & secure. I have libreoffice, thunderbird, firefox-esr, mpv, gedit, mtpaint, evince, mhwaveedit, cups & could have lots of others. And then there are Android apps too. Basically, I made it resemble my puppy setup, but I'm not constantly fixing/updating things as I was. Crostini runs in a container, so each bootup there is a 20 sec delay for container startup. Disk space is an issue (most now are 64Gb) although 128Gb models are appearing & micro sd cards can boost storage.
EDIT: I see that enabling/disabling developer mode (necessary to boot off usb) does a factory reset. I'm too comfortable with what I have to do that right now.

[sonny]

Let's start making a "retail version" of our Puppy (preinstalled, presetup, and preloaded) for the greater good. The open source community needs some open minds and open hearts to go beyond the forums. "Genius is defined as the skill to simplify the complicated".

[stemsee]

One way to get a chromebook with x86 cpu to boot puppylinux is to follow this guide to install GalliumOS.https://wiki.galliumos.org/Installing

After that it's just a matter of doing a frugal install to /mnt/mmcblk0p7 and making an entry in /boot/grub.cfg or /etc/grub.d/custom40.cfg . Without installing galliumos you wont have access to the partitions. After installing GOS and having the partitions prepared you can manually delete GOS installation. But not /boot ... that is the grub directory.

Alternatively just follow the guide as far as installing seabios. After that just boot your puppylinux usb dongle. On my Acer 714 I also used the Fatdog USB-Boot gpt.img, found on FatDog64-812.iso, dd'ed to an sd card and I can boot the chromebook from internal sd-card reader.

[stemsee]

Follow this guide to make the chromeos recovery usb root filesystem mountable and editable. This is a way to create a recovery image with puppy OS on it!

https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/de ... -dev-mode/

[wizard]

Just as a side note, old chromebooks can make excellent small, light Puppy laptops. Here in the U.S the schools and others are retiring thousands of older models as their ChromeOS reaches "end of life". I purchased one on Ebay several months ago for $45 US and using @bigpup instructions here viewtopic.php?t=431 and some other web help I now have a triple boot laptop with ChromeOS on the internal SSD and Gallium Linux and Puppy Linux fossapup64 9.5 on a mini USB.

It does take some patience and perseverance to make the conversion, but it's an interesting project.

Some older Chromebooks are better than others, so you need to do your homework before purchasing.

wizard

[pp4mnklinux]

Hello everybody:

I found this file in my archives, and I remember it as a Puppy Linux similar to Chrome OS.

I share it just in case you wanna give it a try.

In case u test it, please, share your feelings (I uploaded it to a temporary site because I don't know If u could like it or not), and because I dont know why but I can't find this file on the internet, and I dont know why.

The link is: https://upload.disroot.org/r/tqwkqkjW#k ... tQdSpzECA=

[dancytron]

This has gotten more supported/official.

https://chromeenterprise.google/os/chromeosflex/

I gather its basically Chrome OS you can install on anything.

[stevie pup]

I gather its basically Chrome OS you can install on anything.

Not quite anything I'm afraid, for a start I believe it's 64 bit only. Also there are some other issues that people have been grumbling about, such as the fact you can't use Android apps with it. Well that's the state of play at present, but it hasn't been around long and there are upgrades in the pipeline, so who knows what the future will bring.

I've also noticed the Gallium OS project has been discontinued.

[rockedge]

anything mostly cloud sounds like failures built in. Just keeping a website going smoothly and connectable is a challenge of many factors and technologies working in sync. This does occur about 80% of the time. That other 20% is blank pages, error mesages and unseen processes on a far away server. Try working on a spreadsheet in ChromeOS with no Internet connection.

There is something to be said about having an office package on the local machine when data bandwidth limits and or spotty network connectvity can stop work on that spreadsheet.

[wizard]

@rockedge

anything mostly cloud sounds like failures built in

These apply:
wizard's rule #7 "The 'cloud' is great, unless you have no cloud"
wizard's rule #8 "A web link will always die"

wizard

[wizard]

With ChromeOS, Google created a money machine. Cloudready was a ChromeOS work-a-alike alternate that could be installed on lots of hardware. Google bought them out and ChromeOS Flex (owned by Google) could be a spin of that business model.

In Puppy land there is still Cloudpup-Fossa64. viewtopic.php?t=4816

wizard

[dancytron]

Unless it can run Android apps, I'm not sure what use Chromeflex is compared to just running Chrome and signing up for all the google stuff.

[mikewalsh]

Thought I'd take a look at ChromeOS-Flex.

I've run occasional installs of ChromiumOS from ArnoldTheBat. When they work, they work well.....when they don't, most of the time they won't even reach the splash screen.

Seems you no longer need to go through all the arsing-about with the Chromebook Recovery Utility. You can now simply download a current zipped image file, extract it, 'dd' it to a USB drive and when you boot into it, 'Try it' as a 'Live' OS.

See here:-

https://support.google.com/chromeosflex ... 9491978-EU

....then scroll down to the "Download from Google" section. Follow the instructions, download/unzip the image file, and simply 'dd' it to the drive you want to use for a 'Live' run. Couldn't be simpler, given that I'm used to doing exactly the same thing with those occasional ChromiumOS installs.

All of this means that I can install it fully to a fast external USB drive, should I wish, and run it permanently from there. I'm quite happy with ChromeOS running in vanilla trim, since I'm a "Googler" of long-standing and spend more than 90% of my time online as it is. Thus, I have no need of attempting to install Puppy on it, or use Crostini to install/run Linux apps. As far as I'm concerned, it's simply another OS amongst the other occupants of the kennels. I don't have the hardware; all I'm using is the software itself.

Posting from it now, on the Pavilion desktop rig. This is all the more impressive, since to a man, all of the 'Certified' models in their admittedly now quite extensive lists are laptops......yet ChromeOS-Flex is quite happily connecting via Ethernet and accepting input via a mouse rather than a touchpad. And - most importantly! - WideVine is an integral part of the Chrome browser, so NetFlix is a feasible proposition, too!

Should be able to add a chainloader to my main Grub4DOS boot menu, though if that doesn't want to work I can always carry on booting via the 'Advanced' section instead.

I've wanted to be able to install it this easily for a long while. Now that I finally CAN.....it seems a distinct anti-climax. (*yawn*)

Mike.

[bigpup]

Not an operating system for me to use!

Why?

[ozsouth]

@rockedge & @mikewalsh - For me, Flex is a great step forward, but until a good selection of android apps become available (like Andropen Office, which I run on my chromebook under ChromeOS), the cloud-only aspect unnerves me too.

[wiak]

I noted one way Google is cleverly making money that I suspect might apply to ChromOS Flex usage too (though I haven't downloaded or tried the OS).

A few years ago my partner needed larger cloud storage (200GB total) so subscribed with an annual payment for increased google drive...

Problem is her Android Phone is set to back up data/photos and so on as she goes along. What is wrong with that you might imagine? Well, the phone takes great photos and videos, and as they get taken the google drive fills up and fills up... Currently the photos/videos part is taking up 160 GB so running out of space. Problem becomes: how to archive the gdrive to free up space when the stored amount has become so high?

Google provide something called 'Takeout' but only provides the archive in multiiple chunks. I tried and it wanted me to download 79 chunks of 2GB each, one by one....! My ISP would go berserk in terms of 'fair use policy' if I suddenly attempted to make so many many huge downloads all at once, and additional problem is Takeout only gives you one week to make the downloads so what an exciting week of download/download I'd have ahead of me.

So currently stuck paying annual subscription to not lose whatever is already stored! Moral is: beware backing up all your phone junk to Google cloud - you will soon run out of space up there and have to pay simply to store old rubbish photos and videos (including of plates of food and coffee cups...).

Cloud-based OS is a money-earning trap.

[rockedge]

I downloaded the latest ChromeOS-Flex installer and unzipped and inflated the image file to set up the .bin and wow it's almost 7 gigabytes!?! Did I do something wrong and somehow tripled the size? Now to do something with the chromeos_15393.58.0_reven_recovery_stable-channel_mp-v2.bin file............

Screenshot.jpg (15.28 KiB) Viewed 4281 times

Now using the iat tool to convert the .bin to .iso

Code: Select all

#iat chromeos_15393.58.0_reven_recovery_stable-channel_mp-v2.bin chromeos-flex.iso
Iso9660 Analyzer Tool v0.1.3 by Salvatore Santagati
Licensed under GPL v2 or later

UPDATE: the conversion fails

Screenshot(1).jpg (22.55 KiB) Viewed 4277 times

[mikewalsh]

@rockedge :-

Oh, I'm certainly no expert with this stuff - as you know! - but my guess would be that Google have built the OS the same way as they build the browser. A ton of individually sandboxed components, so that if any one part crashes, it won't affect the rest of it. Which would go some way towards explaining the sheer size of the thing.

ArnoldTheBat's ChromiumOS builds are just as large, so the source code must be pretty hefty.

-------------------------------------

@wiak :-

Yeah. Google do know how to monetize stuff, I'll give 'em that. Fortunately for me, I only use my Drive for 'Puppy' stuff. My 'basic' is 5 GB bigger than what it is nowadays - 15GB as opposed to the 10GB they now offer - and somehow (I forget how, exactly), a few years back I was 'awarded' another 2 GB on top of that. Gives me a total of 17GB storage, although I keep the 'float' at around a max of 11-12 GB at all times.

------------------------------------

I'm now considering doing a 'permanent' install, because if the OS detects it's running off any kind of USB device, you don't get updates or security fixes. Which will make life interesting; the 'installer' gives no way to select the drive you want, and merely overwrites whatever primary internal drive is installed. So; I'm going to move HaikuOS from the 64GB PATA/IDE SSD out of the old Dell to a 64GB SanDisk flash drive, and use the SSD as a third internal drive. I bought a PCI-e card a year or so ago that gives me two extra SATA ports; it's installed, though as yet I've never attached anything to it. I'll hook the SSD up to that, and disconnect the two main internal drives. I'll run ChromeOS-Flex from the USB and let it install; it'll only 'see' the SSD, so will use that. After installation, I'll then re-connect the other drives, so hopefully I shall then have ChromeOS-Flex running internally from its own dedicated drive.

Of course, as we ALL know, "The best laid plans of mice & men", etc..... We'll see what happens, like!

Mike.

[wiak]

I will get round to downloading and trying it one day I'm sure, but not right now. I would however be grateful to know if the OS main root filesystem, once written to usb, is comprised of squashed filesystems in case there is some way of using it with FR initrd (aka weedogit)? I somehow doubt it though...

[rockedge]

@wiak Since all attempts at converting the .bin into a usable ISO I went with giving installation on a USB stick a try out.

using : dd if=chromeos_15393.58.0_reven_recovery_stable-channel_mp-v2.bin of=/dev/sdd1 bs=4M status=progress

we will see what is there......writing to the USB as I type......... so far it appears to be doing something positive.....

Screenshot(2).jpg (22.84 KiB) Viewed 4183 times

UPDATE: Seemed to write correctly but F96-CE_4 could not then find the partition or identify it. As if the USB drive disappeared. Final conclusion is it failed and doesn't seem worth the effort. Plus I'm not that sharp on ChromeOS to begin with.

[mikewalsh]

Well, I've been playing around with this some more.

Initially, I thought I was going to have a major problem, vis-a-vis audio. All it would detect were my headphones. Not insurmountable - yes, I could live with it - but "niggling", know what I mean?

Turns out it was a very simple "fix".

I normally leave the wireless dongle for my headphones plugged in permanently. I then use the "QuickAudioSwap" utility I built for myself to switch between the internal card and the headphone's own, built-in card. All this does is to swap over pre-set Retrovol .config files from an external location, then selects the required card via the MultipleSoundCardWizard. Which lets me change sound sources without need of a re-boot.....one of the few things that used to bug me about older Pups.

Turns out ChromeOS is set-up with an auto-detect routine. IF headphones are plugged-in - and detected - the system automatically assumes you're going to be using them, and cuts-off the signal to the main audio output.

From here:-

https://support.google.com/chromeosflex ... e-attached

Known issue

Internal speakers automatically mute while 1/8 inch headphones are plugged into devices, even if you use audio settings to select internal speakers for output.

Workaround

Unplug the 1/8 inch headphones from the device.

So all I had to do was unplug the dongle for the first time in over 2 years, annnd.....main speaker system working again. It's as simple as that.

--------------------------------------

So, I will go ahead with the internal, "permanent" install as detailed above (so I can get updates as intended). All I need to figure out is how to get power to the older PATA/IDE SSD I'm going to be using for this. The one snag with this Pavilion desktop rig is that, due to its 'mid-tower' proportions, a standard PSU won't fit inside the case.....so HP codged up a weird low-output, 'slimline' custom PSU for it. It works very well, but it only gives a max of 180W, so you have to watch what you attach to the system internally. And there aren't any more powerful replacements available..... (*grrrr...*)

The other downside is that it has very few output leads - unlike normal PSUs - and what few there are mostly have custom, HP-only connectors!

About the only solution I can think of off the top of my head is to 'split' the power supply to the primary Crucial 1 TB SSD, and divert a wee bit of juice to the older SSD. Fortuntely, SSDs require very little juice to get them to function, so I think I should still remain within the limits for 'stable' operation.

We shall see....

Mike.

[ozsouth]

@mikewalsh - very promising. What you described with sound is normal behaviour for current chromebooks. This Flex, I'm sure will evolve into something great. Once some most-used apps (in whatever form) become available. I have a 3yo Acer Aspire 3 A315, which was first on the compatibility list - I just checked (has Celeron n4020, 8gb ram, 240gb ssd). Now fossa64-bas seems finished, I just might make Flex my next project, as Crostini should work on this, allowing Debian Buster/Bullseye Linux app installs. That is a game-changer.

LATER - to use Crostini on intel cpu, need Intel-VTX enabled in bios (my 8yo i3 has it too - called 'vitualization technology'). Couldn't try Crostini from usb before install, as insufficient free space (2.5gb) on usb stick image setup - that's all they currently allow, regardless of your usb size.
After HDD install, IT WORKS! - I installed xterm, mousepad, mtpaint, gnumeric, abiword, evince, mpv.

[wiak]

I'm not sure about this one...
For example:

update automatically in the background

I thought most of us here were trying to avoid such behaviours?

[wiak]

@wiak Since all attempts at converting the .bin into a usable ISO I went with giving installation on a USB stick a try out.

using : dd if=chromeos_15393.58.0_reven_recovery_stable-channel_mp-v2.bin of=/dev/sdd1 bs=4M status=progress

Should it not be /dev/sdd rather than /dev/sdd1 above? i.e. writing to raw/full usb stick rather than to partition?

[ozsouth]

@wiak yes, that would be sdd.

Well that was a short project - up & running on my Acer Aspire 3 in an hour, with ChromeOS installed to HDD, Crostini running with Debian apps (see 3 posts back).

[wiak]

Hmmm... why do I feel so dubious about this. If it is free and good then I'm fine with it, but... is it?

Oh, I tried it - but oops, most of my usb sticks are old usb2 (I think) and though the installed image ran okay (after self-repairing stage that freaked me out a bit) it was slow as a snail on this otherwise pretty fast machine... Moral I suppose is that need to use usb3 stick for test...

But another thing: Are we sure this is going to be free outside of an initial trial period? Why do I have my doubts? Certainly doesn't seem to be free at all if say a school wants this and needs to administer its collection of ChromeOS Flex machines. I have a feeling this is going to become a 'subscription-based OS' or is there some small print that promises 'free forever'?

Purchase upgrades for ChromeOS devices
For administrators who manage ChromeOS devices for a business or school.

To manage standalone ChromeOS devices from the Google Admin console, you need to order standalone Chrome Enterprise Upgrade, Chrome Education Upgrade, or Kiosk & Signage Upgrade and purchase an upgrade for each device that you want to manage. After you purchase upgrades, you can enroll devices, configure settings, and apply policies to users and devices in your organization. When you place your order, get the number of upgrades that you think you’ll need. You can always get additional upgrades later.

You can get a free 30-day Chrome Enterprise Upgrade trial for your standalone ChromeOS devices and then purchase upgrades. A trial is limited to 50 devices. To enroll additional devices, you must order standalone Chrome Enterprise Upgrade.

There is no free trial for Chrome Education Upgrade or Kiosk & Signage Upgrade. You will need to purchase the service to enroll devices using the Chrome Education Upgrade or Kiosk & Signage Upgrade.

By the way, I didn't myself like its look and feel at all - I could just feel it pulling me in to various Google control schemes (and probably paying for their Google Workspace at the end of it all). But maybe just my taste. No thanks. However, I think I found a usb3 stick - maybe - I'll try rebooting with that just to have a less painful crawl.