When formatting an HDD - what partition table to create? (solved)

[MrAccident]

FossaPup64 9.0.5.
I have a new HDD, External, 5TB. I've deleted all the partitions that were there. In View > Device Information ― it says that it's gpt; and when I click Device > Create Partition Table ― the default is on gpt. I want to format it to ext4.
And then - what kind of a partition to create? Primary, Extended? And the fat32 partition. I want a single partition for the files, and to install FossaPup there as well.

[Jasper]

@MrAccident

Are you planning to use your new HDD to boot the Puppy OS directly?

If so, you would require a small FAT32 primary partition to boot from.

Then you could dedicate the remaining space as ext4. From memory I also choose this as a Primary partition.

I followed the excellent guide written by @mikeslr. It is written for a USB flash drive but I followed the instructions and it worked for a USB-HDD. I cannot see why it should not work for an internal drive.

viewtopic.php?t=375

The only difference in my situation was that I create 3 partitions Ms-Dos, Ext3 and the remaining space as NTFS. I wanted to be able to use this space to share files with Windows.

[williwaw]

when I click Device > Create Partition Table ― the default is on gpt. I want to format it to ext4.

gpt vs msdos its your choice there is no down side to gpt that I know of. it does allow you to create more partitions than msdos and its a newer type file table that can be recovered in case of file table corruption.

each will allow you create an ext4 partition. thats a different operation.
I would make the first partition fat32. uefi does not require a very big partition, but why not make it a few Gigs in size in case you need the space in a fat32 for something else later? make it a primary partition

make a second partition a primary partition also, formatted to ext4

you may want to leave up to 4TB more or less, as "unallocated for now", unless you have specific needs yet unmentioned.

I want a single partition for the files, and to install FossaPup there as well.

fossa can go in either of the two partitions mentioned above. I would prefer to install fossa in the ext4 rather than the fat32. If you have a specific reason to install fossa to the fat32 partition, it should be made large enough for the savefile as well

what are the files

a little more info about what your plans are for the drive will allow folks to make more specific recommendation about partition size and types

[TerryH]

FossaPup64 9.0.5.
I have a new 5TB HDD. I've deleted all the partitions that were there. In View > Device Information ― it says that it's gpt; and when I click Device > Create Partition Table ― the default is on gpt. I want to format it to ext4.
And then - what kind of a partition to create? Primary, Extended? And the fat32 partition. I want a single partition for the files, and to install FossaPup there as well.

With gpt partition table, it does not require the use of an extended partition, all partitions are created as primary.

[Geek3579]

The advice in previous posts is good. I will just add that if its a very simple setup eg on a small USB, then MSDOS is fine if you are not expecting to need more than 4 partitions including the boot (FAT32) partition. But if you are using a larger drive where you could profitably have more than 4 partitions n the future then GPT is a better option.

[bigpup]

Because your drive is 5TB use GPT partition table.

Let's clear up something.

Difference between GPT and msdos (MBR) for a partition table.

msdos partition table:
Uses a MBR, a special boot sector located at the beginning of a drive.
This sector contains a boot loader for the installed operating system and information about the drive’s logical partitions.
The boot loader is a small bit of code that generally loads the larger boot loader from another partition on a drive.

MBR does have its limitations. For starters, MBR only works with disks up to 2 TB in size.
MBR also only supports up to four primary partitions—if you want more, you have to make one of your primary partitions an “extended partition” and create logical partitions inside it.

GPT partition table:
GPT-based drives can be much larger, (supports drives up to one billion terabytes) with size limits dependent on the operating system and its file systems.
GPT also allows for a nearly unlimited number of partitions.
Again, the limit here will be your operating system—Example: Windows allows up to 128 partitions on a GPT drive, and you don’t have to create an extended partition to make them work.
Linux can support usually the maximum number Linux kernel supports is 255.
All partitions are the same type, basically just a partition.

On an MBR disk, the partitioning and boot data is stored in one place. If this data is overwritten or corrupted, you’re in trouble.
In contrast, GPT stores multiple copies of this data across the disk, so it’s much more robust and can recover if the data is corrupted.

This is what I would do if Puppy Linux is only going to be on the drive.

Your computer is probably a UEFI bios, so this is the proper setup for a drive for them.

Make partition table GPT, because of it being 5TB size!

Make first partition small 500MB, formatted fat 32, flagged boot, esp
Use this as the boot partition and install the boot loader on it.
This is kind of a UEFI requirement and it is all that is needed for a location of the boot loader.

The rest of the drive partition as you want. Any other number of partitions.

I suggest make the 2nd partition 500GB to 1TB, format it ext3 or 4.
Install frugal installs of Puppy Linux on it.
Sure use any other partitions as long as they are ext3 or 4 format.

Make 3 or 4 more partitions formatted ext3 or 4 to use as you want.

If Windows OS is going to access this drive.
Make one partition formatted ntfs so windows can work with it.

Note:
I suggest more than one 2nd big single partition, because very large partitions are going to take a lot of time, to run a file system check on, if something goes wrong with the file system.
Plus, if one partition goes bad, for some reason, the other partitions will still work.
Maybe have one partition for only backup stuff.
I do not need no backups until you do need a backup copy of something.,...... like the Puppy save!

Whatever boot loader you use to boot the Puppy install, install on the first partition. The boot partition.
Grub2 boot loader is what will be needed as the boot loader. (it supports GPT drives)
In Puppy, Grub2config boot loader installer, you can find on this forum, will support Puppy installs using Grub2.
Frugalpup Installer, also found on this forum, will install a Grub2 boot loader.

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If Widows OS is going to be installed on this drive.
Still use GPT partition table.
Let Windows OS installer partition the drive the way Windows OS wants it.

Then to get Puppy frugal installs on it.
That is another topic to post.

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[MrAccident]

@williwaw

what are the files

All the files I have: Video, Image, Audio etc.

@bigpup:
I found instructions on formatting a drive, I already had (I just didn't think of searching for it where the instructions for installing Puppy are); but I still have some questions:
• What is the use of the fat32 partition? To know how much size I should dedicate to it. In my text it says 300mb. What is suppose to go there, and what is its size.
• Because GParted uses MiB ― is this size conversion correct: 300mb = 286MiB?
• Here is what is written in my text: Downloading FrugalPup - https://www.mediafire.com/file/qd0iegdky67h43d/frugalpup_20.sfs/file or search for “FrugalPup_20”. Download to /mnt/home. Load by sfs-load-on-the-fly; then it's in Setup. (by order) “Puppy” installs; “Boot” installs Boot-Loader (UEFI). (to create the folder - Enter not OK button). Should I just follow it; and will this install the correct Boot-Loader?

[mikeslr]

The first partition, +/- 300 Mbs and formatted Fat32 is formatted Fat32 because that's where you will place the boot-loader and a bootloader for UEFI systems has to be Fat32. The module is small. You could probably get away with 150 Mbs. But with 5TB, why skimp?

As bigpup wrote, a 5 Tb drive will take a long time to file-system check. But it will also take a long time to mount as all the files on it will be indexed each time it is mounted. One great advantage of gpt formatting is that you are not limited to four partitions, or have to use extended partitions which sometimes fail. You can have as many partitions as you want.

I suggest that you create several partitions. One, as bigpup recommended, for back-ups. Categorize what you're going to 'store' and create a partition for each major category. How large each partition will be depends on the category. Movies take a lot of space. but you could divide that category: e.g., home movies; movies downloaded from the web. As I try out various Puppys, I find it helpful to have a 'Vault' in which I store various applications so that I don't have to keep downloading them. Want to try woofing or wiak's weedogit? A different partition will be required or useful.

Time to use your imagination and think ahead. Maybe create a couple partitions more than you now need. You'll either find a use for them later, can use them to backup vital files, or further divide your categories.

Other than the 1st Fat32 partition, use Linux Ext3 or Ext4. Ext4 uses slightly more time and space (journals twice rather than once when saving) but you won't notice time difference and have more space than you 'can shake a stick at.'

[gychang]

FossaPup64 9.0.5.
I have a new HDD, External, 5TB. I've deleted all the partitions that were there. In View > Device Information ― it says that it's gpt; and when I click Device > Create Partition Table ― the default is on gpt. I want to format it to ext4.

You have to make sure you are using a UEFI bios, my impression is in legacy bios, it should be in msdos file system rather than gpt with a bootable HD.

[bigpup]

FossaPup64 9.0.5.
I have a new HDD, External, 5TB. I've deleted all the partitions that were there. In View > Device Information ― it says that it's gpt; and when I click Device > Create Partition Table ― the default is on gpt. I want to format it to ext4.

You have to make sure you are using a UEFI bios, my impression is in legacy bios, it should be in msdos file system rather than gpt with a bootable HD.

with a 5TB dire there is no choice but GPT partition table setup.
msdos partition table would only allow 2TB of the drive to be usable.

[bigpup]

What is the use of the fat32 partition? To know how much size I should dedicate to it. In my text it says 300mb. What is suppose to go there, and what is its size.
• Because GParted uses MiB ― is this size conversion correct: 300mb = 286MiB?
• Here is what is written in my text: Downloading FrugalPup - https://www.mediafire.com/file/qd0iegdk ... 0.sfs/file or search for “FrugalPup_20”. Download to /mnt/home. Load by sfs-load-on-the-fly; then it's in Setup. (by order) “Puppy” installs; “Boot” installs Boot-Loader (UEFI). (to create the folder - Enter not OK button). Should I just follow it; and will this install the correct Boot-Loader?

The first partition made 300 to 500 MB in size, formatted fat32, flagged boot,esp is going to be the boot partition, where the boot loader will be stored.
You need two things to install Puppy on a internal drive.
A frugal install of the Puppy version.
A boot loader installed to boot it.

Do not worry about MiB or mb, it is just different ways identification bits and bytes. Just different ways of identifying the same thing.

What is difference between bit and bytes?
So, bits and bytes are both units of data, but what is the actual difference between them? One byte is equivalent to eight bits. A bit is considered to be the smallest unit of data measurement.

I am not sure what you are following for installing.

This is how to use the Frugalpup Installer

This is what has worked for me installing to internal drives of any type.

You need to do all of this from a Booted Fossaapup64 installed on a USB stick or a CD.
Use this to boot the computer to a Running Fossapup64.

So you can run all the needed programs in Fossapup64.

Have the Puppy version you want to install ISO file to use as source for the frugal install.

Use the program Frugalpup Installer to do the install to the internal drive.
Fossapup64 9.5 has Frugalpup already in it, but there is a newer version you may want to install and use.
Frugalpup v38 can be gotten here:
viewtopic.php?t=337

This is what I do.

Use Gparted program.
Setup the internal drive with 2 partitions.
First one, small 300MB, fat32 format, flagged boot, esp. (location for boot loader files, boot partition)
Rest of drive, whatever other partition(s), but one ext3 or 4 format. (location to put frugal installs)
(this is UEFI standard requirement, and some computers, look for a fat32 partition, for boot loader files)

Run Frugalpup Installer main program.
On the main window are selection buttons.
Select the Puppy button, to do the install.
Go through install process, selecting to install to the ext formatted partition.
Note:
When selecting the partition to install to.
A window pops up, giving option to make a directory, to put the frugal install in.
I make this directory and usually name it, the name of the Puppy version.
Carefully read that windows info.
Press enter, makes the directory, not the OK button.
complete the install.

When it gets back to the main Frugalpup window.
Select the boot button.
Select the location of the frugal install, on the internal drive. (usually this is already selected and you just have to click on OK)
Select the small 300MB 1st partition, as location to install the boot loader. (may need to scroll the selection window)
Select the boot loader type.
UEFI
mbr ->legacy bios boot
both

You can install the UEFI for UEFI computers.
mbr for legacy bios computers.
both, to boot anything.

The UEFI or both will also install the needed files, to support secure boot enabled in UEFI.

When you first boot the internal drive, on a UEFI computer, with secure boot enabled.
A process will start, to allow you to install the Puppy security key, to the computer.
It will add this Puppy key, to the other ones, loaded on the computer.

Note:
I did have one computer, that would not boot from install on the internal drive, if secure boot was disabled.
So had to make it enabled.
But no problem, installed the UEFI type boot loader, and it provided needed stuff to install needed Puppy security key.

Note:
To put more frugal installs on the same drive.
Run Frugalpup Installer.
Do the complete Frugalpup Installer process again, for the new Puppy version.
When you run the boot loader install.
It will make boot menu entries, for all installs it finds, on the drive.

If this does not work.
Need specific details of exactly what happens as it tries to boot.
It does this, then that happens, then i see this.

[MrAccident]

@bigpup:
I did a Google search on 300mb to MiB ― and it showed that it equals 286.102; and called it "mebibytes"; is this incorrect?
It's an External Drive. Do I need to do anything differently than your instructions?
@gychang - googling it - if it's UEFI ― the folder/sys/firmware/efi will be there; it is there. Is this correct?
@mikeslr - thanks for all the information. I'll divide it to 5 partitions of 1TB.

[gychang]

@MrAccident to see if your bios is legacy vs uefi, look at your bios (e.g. F2 key in Dell PC at start of boot) and see if there is mention of UEFI. If your computer is "older" say more than 10 years, it MAY be legacy bios.

[bigpup]

Stop overthinking everything.

Just do what I posted and what mikesir suggested about setting up the drive and partitions on it.

Use the Frugalpup Installer program to do frugal installs of Puppy Linux versions.
I gave you step by step directions on how to use it.
Carefully do each step.
First time will be slow, because you are learning how to use the installer.

Using Frugalpup Installer I have done this same procedure to do frugal installs on internal drives (HD or SSD), SD cards, USB stick, USB hard drives, USB connected SSD.

I am typing this running a Puppy installed as frugal install, with 14 other Puppy versions, frugally installed on a external Hard Drive.

Frugalpup Installer gives you 3 options as to what type boot loader to install.
UEFI
Legacy bios
Both

I usually pick both for external drives, so I can use them on any type bios computer. (UEFI or legacy bios)
With both installed.
When it boots the correct boot loader is used.

[MrAccident]

@gychang - I prefer not to restart the computer now; but it's a pretty new computer.

[bigpup]

@gychang - I prefer not to restart the computer now; but it's a pretty new computer.

Read my above post!

That is a UEFI bios computer!

[bigpup]

I did a Google search on 300mb to MiB ― and it showed that it equals 286.102; and called it "mebibytes"; is this incorrect?

yes.

1 MB actually equals 1000 KB, while 1 MiB = 1024 KiB. The mebi prefix in MebiByte (MiB) stands for mega and binary – which refers to it as being a power of 2 – thus the values such as 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048 and so on.

The MB on the other hand is always a power of 10, so you’ve got 1 KB = 1000 bytes, 1 MB = 1000 KB and 1 GB = 1000 MB.

Almost each operating system deals with these units differently and out of all, Windows is the most weird. It actually calculates everything in mebibytes but then adds a KB/MB/GB at the end, saying it’s a megabyte. So a 1024 byte file will be reported as 1.00 KB, while in reality it is 1.00 KiB or 1.024 KB.

Stop trying to understand this. Just understand they are describing the same space.

It is all about two different ways to measure the same thing.

[MrAccident]

then what number to write if I want to make it 300mb, in GParted?

[bigpup]

300

When the making a partition screen pops up.
I usually just move the slider down to where it shows close to 300.

This is just a ball park amount.

The boot loader files are going to take up a little space, but good to have some free space left, if it ever needs to be used.

Example this is my setup on a small internal SSD:
.

Screenshot(2).jpg (58.56 KiB) Viewed 1618 times

.
This image shows the partitions locked, because I am booting from this drive.
That 1MiB unallocated space is what Gparted could not use to make the ext4 formatted 2nd partition.

[MrAccident]

OK, I've done it.
I made a single partition from the rest of the drive. Reasons:
• Generally I'm planning to have 2 drives with the same information, 1 for backup ― so if the partition will fail - it won't be a big deal. With the fat32 partition and another one in each drive ― it's already 4 partitions to be shown. And also - the partitions names are generated randomly - every time I'm starting the system ― so there will be a big mess on the Desktop.
• As to the time it will take to mount it ― I didn't notice a problem with my 2TB drive, and this is just 2.5 times more. And what did I buy a new, much stronger computer for? I'm also keeping the computer On for a week easily.
• Anyway - I'll be able to change it in the future.

My internal drive is in repair ― so I don't know if I'll install Puppy on the new drive or the old. So I'll come back to this. BTW - will I need to remove the Boot Flag; and what flag will I need to choose?

[mikewalsh]

One thing I will add, re: GPT vs MBR for the partition tables.

On a disk of this size, even if you physically choose to go with MBR, gParted will silently override your choice and go to GPT instead. Reason? Because MBR (MS-DOS based) has a maximum usable size of 2 TB.....for the simple reason that MS-DOS supports FAT16. And block/cluster size for FAT16 cannot exceed a maximum disk size of more than 2 TB.

(I confirmed this for myself, a few weeks ago. When I first bought my Seagate 3TB external desktop drive a few years ago, I KNOW I selected MBR for the partition table. Yet upon checking details the other day, it clearly showed it had been set up with GPT. That's when I began looking into this phenomenon.)

This explains it rather nicely:-

https://www.diskpart.com/windows-11/mbr ... -0001.html

Seems this even applies to SSDs, too. Despite not having the physical components described by the specs, SSDs still use the old "CHS" designation - Cylinder, Head, Sector - originally developed for spinning disks. So the same limits apply.

Mike.

[bigpup]

My internal drive is in repair ― so I don't know if I'll install Puppy on the new drive or the old. So I'll come back to this. BTW - will I need to remove the Boot Flag; and what flag will I need to choose?

Here is where you know what you are talking about, but we do not.

Remove boot flag from What?

Because you are going to do what with it?

[MrAccident]

@bigpup - I've put "boot" (and "esp") flags on the fat32 partition ― so if I'll end up not putting Puppy on this drive - will I need to change the flags, and if so - to what flags?