Reflections on tech support by a Music Educator

[geo_c]

Being a music educator, private instructor, college professor, band leader, I have found it necessary over the years to hone my understanding of the learning process. In other words, I've been driven by necessity to address the question of how to impart very complex information systems to people of diverse learning apptitudes, ages, and personality types.

For instance, how do you teach someone to play jazz?

Well, first of all you don't try to teach them to play jazz. You teach them to understand a few simple principles at a time. What's most important is to first teach them the process of learning to play jazz, and to prioritize the steps in the process. Once they are familiar with the process, they begin to ask the right questions.

Consider this scenario, one I encounter every day:

studentA: What should I do this week? What's my homework?

geo_c: Just take [concept A] and apply it to [implementation A]. Do you undersand what I mean by that?

studentA: *affirmative nod*

geo_c: Good, can you repeat back what I said in your own words?

studentA: *deer in the headlights expression*

geo_c: If you don't understand, that's alright, just say so and ask me a question. That's why I ask.

Then there's the opposite scenario:

studentB: What should I do this week? What's my homework?

geo_c: Just take [concept A] and apply it to [implementation A]. Do you undersand what I mean by that?

studentB: Yes but what about [concept W]? Shouldn't I be doing that for [implementation XyWQr]?

geo_c: No, first master using [concept A] and apply it to [implementation A].

The takeaway from both of these scenarios is that people are all over the map with their knowledge base and understanding of it. My job is to enlarge their knowledge base, but at the same time prioritize the focus. Because a lot of information without focus actually impedes the learning process in my experience.

How does this relate to computing, and a support forum?

Recent attempts to help puppy newbies have highlighted the need to apply the above information commuication techniques. Puppy is not a simple concept for people coming from BigBox OS's, especially if they're new to Linux.

Giving personality-typeA too much information results in the deer-the-headlights response. Giving personality-typeB too much information results in an extremely convoluted set of hardware/software conditions difficult to untangle in a forum format.

Just some thoughts.

I've been taking special care to read forum questions and topic responses very carefully before responding, as to hone the focus as much as humanly possible. Then when I respond I check and edit my grammar and syntax for clarity and precision. It's quite literally an art form. Because people are themselves works of art.

[bigpup]

I seem to run into two main problems trying to help people with Puppy Linux.

1. We do not need to read no stinking directions on how to do something
This would be student A->Z at any time!

2. What they do not tell us is usually the clue needed to provide the solution.
Well they will finally do it, but could be many pages into a problem topic.

Sometimes you get, I just tried this, instead of what you tell them to do.
Usually this goes back to number 1.

there seems to be a group of people, that asking a question, and expecting to get it answered, will never happen

You can forget getting people to stick with only one problem or issue in a topic.

[geo_c]

1. We do not need to read no stinking directions on how to do something

Maybe there should be a brief quiz in the installer routines with questions that must be answered correctly for the installer to proceed

2. What they do not tell us is usually the clue needed to provide the solution.

Well this is part of the process as I see it, asking the right questions in a really succinct way before offering up 'solutions' to issues without all the information. It seems to require going back and looking at the totality of posts prior to the specific post on which we wish to offer advice. Odds are someone prior has either given information that has confused the issue or the person took the good information in an ill-advised direction. Either way, offering more advice without knowing the history seems to dig the hole deeper.

Sometimes you get, I just tried this, instead of what you tell them to do.

personality-typeB, frustrating, but I don't want to discourage initiative, which once focused can become a value to a community.

there seems to be a group of people, that asking a question, and expecting to get it answered, will never happen

You're most likely correct, but I believe it's possible to facilitate a culture when enough people catch a glimpse of how small changes in approach add up to an overall effect. When I first joined puppy forum 12 or 15 years ago, whenever it was, I had no idea what a tech forum was or how to interact in it. I would say it was only in the last couple years that I really caught the idea of the organized thought process and decorum that makes a forum like this productive.

You can forget getting people to stick with only one problem or issue in a topic.

To me it's not so much a matter of sticking to one issue, as it is the discussion of an issue having a forward evolution toward a better focus. That's where creativity starts to happen, when there is a certain amount of structured chaos, but an understanding of the desired goal. It's when a topic or issue goes in twenty different directions and scatters that much of what is shared is lost or obfuscated to the point of being more or less useless to the big picture.

And I think that's where sometimes too many voices in a particular topic thread become problematic. I might be too quick to jump in and help when in fact the current group having the discussion will end up acheiving the desired result. I try to be aware of things like that when say @rockedge and @wiak are figuring out system build scripts. Me adding my two cents doesn't always help. And me bringing up application issues at the wrong time has often sent them on side journeys addressing my particular needs. At the same time, you never know when problem solving those issues brings on some new idea for a feature or fix that wouldn't have surfaced without the need being brought up.

All that to say, in all of these topic discussions, clarity and thoughtfulness can go a long way toward knowing when and what to offer or ask.

One thing I hadn't really pointed out, that I meant to include originally, is that learning about who we are having disussions with helps me a lot in the long term. In other words reading and listening carefully to how they think and approach something gives me the discernment about what and when to offer, and more importantly how.

[geo_c]

@amethyst You're welcome to comment on this discussion!

[mikewalsh]

<snip>...And I think that's where sometimes too many voices in a particular topic thread become problematic. I might be too quick to jump in and help when in fact the current group having the discussion will end up acheiving the desired result. I try to be aware of things like that when say @rockedge and @wiak are figuring out system build scripts. Me adding my two cents doesn't always help. And me bringing up application issues at the wrong time has often sent them on side journeys addressing my particular needs. At the same time, you never know when problem solving those issues brings on some new idea for a feature or fix that wouldn't have surfaced without the need being brought up....</snip>

Heh.

It doesn't often happen, but at times I come across threads where the OP - invariably wanting help with something - will ONLY interact with the first person to answer.....and for the duration of that thread, will subsequently actively ignore anybody else who tries to "push in" and offer what they see as help.

My take on this is that there are a certain subset of people who actually prefer one-on-one help, and view anybody else trying to offer assistance as "butting-in" & being rude. It's a viewpoint that I, myself, have the utmost difficulty in understanding, because if the one person you select to help you drops out before you've managed to obtain a solution then you have voluntarily left yourself up s**t creek without a paddle! Me, I like to keep my options open....

And then you get those like a certain person who @geo_c has been attempting to help quite a bit recently (mentioning no names). This type comes to the table with a plethora of pre-conceived notions; instead of asking for help/clarification as soon as they run into problems, they attempt to fix it themselves. An admirable trait, but all too often they're trying to 'fix' things in the wrong way, then when they do ask for help they attempt to present the situation as-is, but leave out half the details, or list things in the wrong order, all the while trying to approach things from the viewpoint of a totally non-Linux world.....and thoroughly confusing not only themselves, but everybody else in the process. On top of all that, when you do make suggestions and try to straighten out the mess, they simply will not do as you ask them to......making it all too obvious that they don't really understand what it is they're trying to accomplish, but blustering through anyway because they're too proud to admit they're in trouble.

This type is invariably not good at communication, usually has a very single-minded, 'fixed' approach in their heads.....and is incredibly frustrating to work with into the bargain. Many of said individuals appear to be under the impression that it's incumbent upon the rest of the world to make their lives as easy as possible, and that they should never need to put an ounce of effort into anything.

Puppy is NOT the best place for this type to cut their teeth on, because they want it all laid out on a silver platter for the taking..!

Mike.

[greengeek]

Giving personality-typeA too much information results in the deer-the-headlights response.

Yes with technical subjects (eg Puppy linux) it can be hard to offer just the right amount of information. Even when you know you can solve the other person's problem - your solution may not be the one they understand or choose to investigate.
I have noticed that sometimes the most effective methodology is to ask very simple questions that collect information.
eg:
- Type "dmesg" in a terminal and post the results.
- Type "cat /proc/acpi/wakeup" in a terminal and post the results.

Often times when they see the data coming back from simple questions the user suddenly sees the way forward by themselves. Once a user feels aware of what the cli offers they start to make progress under their own steam.

But getting them to that point can be difficult.

[geo_c]

I have noticed that sometimes the most effective methodology is to ask very simple questions that collect information.

Often times when they see the data coming back from simple questions the user suddenly sees the way forward by themselves.

But getting them to that point can be difficult.

Yes, I believe you are saying something to similar to my analogy, "don't teach them to play jazz, just to do one thing and one thing only." Once the foundations are solid they'll tie it all together as the puzzle reveals itself.

Of course that's personality type A, but I think the same basic approach is necessary for personality type B to limit the amount of mixed issues.