How to use BionicPup64 in flash drives larger than 4GB? (Solved)

[Jarrett]

I'm trying to make a 16GB flash drive that uses Bionic Pup 64 bit, that will boot on any machine including some tablets.
The problem is, I need more than the 4 GB space allowed by Fat 32, I also need UEFI boot capabilities.
It seems not many, if any computers running Windows will allow booting from any of the Linux partition options.
I can get the standard 4GB installation to boot on most machines using Fat 32.
The obvious solution is exFat partitions but Puppy doesn't support this.
I've tried partitioning a flash drive so that the OS is on Fat 32 and the Save file on Ext 4 but this doesn't work.
Is there a way of achieving this?

[Flash]

I think there is a way to use exFat in Puppy but I don't know much more than that about it.

You could format the flash drive with a FAT32 partition to install Puppy in, and the rest of the drive as NTFS. Both Puppy and Windows can see and use either partition.

[Jarrett]

I think there is a way to use exFat in Puppy but I don't know much more than that about it.

You could format the flash drive with a FAT32 partition to install Puppy in, and the rest of the drive as NTFS. Both Puppy and Windows can see and use either partition.

I must admit, I haven't tried making the save partition NTFS. I'll give it a try.

[ndujoe1]

before you install bionicpup64 on a large flash drive. Format to the ext4 with Gparted. Imo.

[Jafadmin]

Just so we are clear, the maximum partition size using fat32 is 2TB. The maximum file size is 4GB.

I have a 64G fat32 sandisk thumbdrive that I use as a Grub4Dos ISO booter. It has dozens of puppy ISO's on it.

[mikewalsh]

Easy.

On your 16 GB (or larger) flash drive, create a 4 GB partition for Puppy....though as Jafa says, it appears facts are getting confused here. You could make the FAT32 partition bigger! Anyway, run Puppy from there, and create your save-file on there.

The remainder of the drive, format to ext2/3/4 (your choice). On this partition, create directories for your personal data; my-documents, Music, Pictures, Videos.....etc. When you've done that, sym-link those directories into /root.

This way, Puppy will see - and think - they're in /root.....but in reality, they're on another partition, and therefore, not taking up space in the 'save'.

---------------------------------------

To sym-link, see below:-





Hope that clarifies things a bit; ROX-filer takes a bit of getting used to initially.


Mike.

[rcrsn51]

I've tried partitioning a flash drive so that the OS is on Fat 32 and the Save file on Ext 4 but this doesn't work. Is there a way of achieving this?

Please provide details. This is an important function that Puppy has been able to do in the past and should still be able to do.

[mikewalsh]

I've tried partitioning a flash drive so that the OS is on Fat 32 and the Save file on Ext 4 but this doesn't work. Is there a way of achieving this?

Please provide details. This is an important function that Puppy has been able to do in the past and should still be able to do.

Actually, Bill's quite right. Puppy has long been able to run from a stick, for example, but make use of a 'save' on, say, a partition of your hard drive. It certainly ought to be able to use a save-file on a second partition of the same stick.....

Never occurred to me off-hand, since I don't tend to run my Pups this way. The ability to do so has, however, been there for a very long time.


Mike.

[Flash]

Maybe the problem is that since Windows can't see ext* partitions, it just rejects the whole drive.

[Jafadmin]

Maybe the problem is that since Windows can't see ext* partitions, it just rejects the whole drive.

This is true if the first partition is a non-M$ partition. It is false if the first partition is an M$ partition.

[bigpup]

If you can get Bionicpup64 8.0 running.

You can do an install to USB using the frugalpup Installer.
It can install a boot loader that works with legacy bios or UEFI or both.

If you run Quickpet->Info->Bionicpup updates
It should download and install Frugalpup Installer.
menu->Setup->Frugalpup Installer

This is how to setup the USB and install Puppy to the USB.

You do have to manually setup the USB drive with partitions, before using Frugalpup installer.

Use Gparted program to delete all partitions on drive.
Make two partitions.
First one a small 300MB, formatted fat32, flagged boot.
2nd partition the rest of the drive, formatted ext 3 or 4.

Have the Puppy version iso available at a location it can be accessed.

run menu->Setup->FrugalPup flexible frugal installer.

This is a program that requires you to make choices, just go slowly and read the provided info.

On main widow select the Puppy button.
This will go thru the install process.
Install Puppy version to the 2nd partition.
It will provide a way to make a directory(folder) to put the frugal install in.
Do that. Best if you name it the name of the Puppy version or similar.
Carefully read that pages information. Pressing OK does not make the directory. Pressing enter key does.
Complete install.

Back at main window.
Select boot button.
This will install the boot loader.
Choose to install to the first partition.
You can choose UEFI or legacy or both.
Both will install both types of boot loaders, so both will provide for UEFI and legacy booting.

When complete you should have Puppy version as a frugal install on the 2nd partition.
The Grub2 boot loader on the first partition.

Note:
On a normally setup UEFI (secure boot enabled) it will require installing the Puppy security key.
When you boot.
The Puppy security key install will run and walk you through installing the security key.

Note:
Frugalpup installer topic is here:
viewtopic.php?p=1588#p1588

[Clarity]

Although this is late, why are we still using MSDOS as the drive type?

If we are not running Win-XP we have no need or use for that.

GPT will addressed most of what we need.

On the formatting, YES=FAT is reasonably restricted. Again, if we are not running Win-XP we should stay away from all FATs.

NTFS is proven, works, stable and unlike all FATs, it will exist to use data "compression" at the OS/hardware level should you choose. Thus more data...less space...and its stable.

Excepting for FATDOG, PUPs do NOT come with the full gamut of formating. If you need both Linux and MS-Apple compatibility, you cant lose with NTFS.

Corruption is a term tossed about by many. I have only had 1 instance in 2 decades, so I may not be a supporter when this term is tossed about. AND in that one instance, I merely booted MS (PE or the OS) and it fixed what it found.

My experience is to use NTFS for any partitions or drives that must be seen by both Linux and MS. Any other times, I use the Linux formats choosing those which affords the partitions sizes and files sizes within partitions that meet requirements.

GPT drive type with partition formats that are stable and meet requirements. ... and formats (limited number) that can be used by the PUPs I boot (see their GPARTED for which formats the PUPs "fully" manage that the developers provide.

Some formats, such as ExFAT, F2FS, few others are recent. So on the really old OSes (and PUP distros), they will not be recognized, or properly manipulated.

FYI

[bigpup]

On the formatting, YES=FAT is reasonably restricted. Again, if we are not running Win-XP we should stay away from all FATs.

UEFI requires the use of a small first partition formatted fat32 to be used as the boot partition and have the boot loader on it.

UEFI firmware supports booting from removable storage devices such as USB flash drives. For that purpose, a removable device is formatted with a FAT12, FAT16 or FAT32 file system, while a boot loader needs to be stored according to the standard ESP file hierarchy, or by providing a complete path of a boot loader to the system's boot manager. On the other hand, FAT32 is always expected on fixed drives.

What specific version of the UEFI is on the computer has some affect.
UEFI today is not the same UEFI of several years ago or when it first was used.

So far, all the different UEFI computers, I have booted a USB on, seem to be happy with the grub2 boot loader on a small first partition formatted fat32 and Puppy installed to a 2nd partition with any format.

There is probably different way to do it, that works with the very latest UEFI, but it may not work with older versions of UEFI.
Also, what is it going to do on a computer with legacy bios. No UEFI.

[mikeslr]

Ditto what bigpup wrote, except as I pointed out elsewhere.
During its installation of a Puppy's files onto the 2nd partition frugalpup-installer will ask into which directory you want to install those files and offer to allow you to create that directory. If immediately after you've used gparted to create the partition you take the opportunity to create that directory, you'll eliminate the opportunity frugalpup-installer provides for human error.
[The human error under frugalpup-installer is that after creating the directory, you have to press Enter. If, as I suggest above, you previously created the directory, you can simply select it].

[mikewalsh]

@mikeslr :-

Talking about Frugalpup, I've discovered one of its "shortcomings". (Yes, it does have one...!)

I've been trying to get 10wt3ch's Studio13.37 - v3.3, the files for which are now free to download, since he's called an end to his long-running project and disbanded the website - installed on this new UEFI desktop of mine. Actually, I was trying to get it installed to a flash-drive instead, but the 'unzip-to-stick' option wasn't working for me. I managed to get it running from the HDD, but over the last few days I've been tiffling about, trying one thing or another, to get it running from said flash drive.

I thought I'd try using Frugalpup. All went marvellously well.....until it came to setting up the bootloader on the small FAT32 partition. The files were exactly where they should be, boot flag set as required.....but Frugalpup insisted there was nowt there! I repeated the experiment twice more, with exactly the same result.

Soooo.... I'm guessing Frugalpup is looking for an SFS with "puppy"-something in the name. 'Twould make sense, because Studio 1337's main SFS file (now based around Bionicpup64) is simply called 1337_3.3.sfs. No Puppy name or anything; it's simply a bunch of numbers.

(I can't, as yet, either confirm or deny whether or not Frugalpup works as intended. All I can surmise is that this particular 'use-case' wasn't a very good test, due to the unusual naming practice!)

------------------------------------------

I eventually got it running via a modification of the way I boot the rest of the kennels, using normal Grub4DOS, but with the boot entry altered to read the way Bill has set things up for the Debian Dogs "Starter Kit".....using the pdrv parameter, and two instances of the partition's UUID, found by using the 'blkid' command in the terminal. So now if I leave it plugged into the desktop, I can start it from the main Grub4DOS menu.....or if I want to use it on another machine, it will fire up from its own, 'onboard' bootloader.

Code: Select all

title Studio 13.37-USB (sdc2/Studio1337)
  find --set-root uuid () bdc969fa-95a7-4e5b-b550-688496e36566
  kernel /Studio1337/vmlinuz  pdrv=bdc969fa-95a7-4e5b-b550-688496e36566 psubdir=/Studio1337 pmedia=usbhd pfix=fsck
  initrd /Studio1337/initrd.gz

(I found, for some odd reason, that everything runs better if I use the "usbhd" parameter, rather than the "usbflash" one. *shrug*)

Posting from the current Chrome-portable in Studio 13.37 now.....running from a 64GB SanDisk Cruzer 'Fit' flash drive. Sorted!


Mike.

[Jarrett]

Thanks everyone for the responses.
I haven't had the time to try any of the above. I think I'll try out Bigpups method first.
I may get that done this coming Sunday.

I've got the 32 bit version of Xenial pup working as a full install on a flash drive currently, but it won't boot on this:
Mini Computer N33, which came with Windows 10 pre-installed. I took windows off by installing Linux Mate Cinnamon 20, 64bit.

It will boot on a Dell Optiplex 990 which is dual boot with Linux Mint Xfce, 19.3. 64bit. and Ubuntu 11.04. Yup, I know the Ubuntu is old but it's been rock solid after I stripped out the Unity desktop.
I'll post again when I've had a fiddle.

[Jarrett]

Easy.

On your 16 GB (or larger) flash drive, create a 4 GB partition for Puppy....though as Jafa says, it appears facts are getting confused here. You could make the FAT32 partition bigger! Anyway, run Puppy from there, and create your save-file on there.

The remainder of the drive, format to ext2/3/4 (your choice). On this partition, create directories for your personal data; my-documents, Music, Pictures, Videos.....etc. When you've done that, sym-link those directories into /root.

This way, Puppy will see - and think - they're in /root.....but in reality, they're on another partition, and therefore, not taking up space in the 'save'.

---------------------------------------

To sym-link, see below:-





Hope that clarifies things a bit; ROX-filer takes a bit of getting used to initially.


Mike.

That is a shockingly bad video.
I think I get the idea though...

[mikewalsh]

@Jarrett :-

Heh. You've noticed..!

No, I'm afraid if you're looking for, or expecting a slick, Youtube channel 'experience' as offered by the likes of SneekyLinux or Spatry's Cup of Linux, you 'll have to look elsewhere, because you won't find it here. That's not what I'm about.

My vids tend to get put together 'on-the-fly', in response to a particular threads or posts, where I know summat about the subject matter, but happen to think it's better put into moving pictures ("a picture's worth a thousand words", y'know?) As such, they're strictly 'demo tutorial' type stuff, intended purely for internal consumption by the Puppy community. I've only been doing these short vids for the last 2 or 3 years, and then only occasionally....so I just haven't had the practice many well-known YouTube vloggers have.

I'm afraid real life gets in the way a lot of the time..!

In all honesty, so long as I can get the message across, I'm happy with that. I don't run my own server - never had the interest or the inclination - so I host 'em at Youtube for the simple reason it's the easiest option. I've had a Google a/c for almost 20 years, but only started to make use of the 'infrastructure' this last 3 or 4. Youtube's integrated with everything else, including the Drive....

You pays your money & 'takes your chances' with me, I'm afraid!


Mike.

[Jarrett]

If you can get Bionicpup64 8.0 running.

You can do an install to USB using the frugalpup Installer.
It can install a boot loader that works with legacy bios or UEFI or both.

If you run Quickpet->Info->Bionicpup updates
It should download and install Frugalpup Installer.
menu->Setup->Frugalpup Installer

This is how to setup the USB and install Puppy to the USB.

You do have to manually setup the USB drive with partitions, before using Frugalpup installer.

Use Gparted program to delete all partitions on drive.
Make two partitions.
First one a small 300MB, formatted fat32, flagged boot.
2nd partition the rest of the drive, formatted ext 3 or 4.

Have the Puppy version iso available at a location it can be accessed.

run menu->Setup->FrugalPup flexible frugal installer.

This is a program that requires you to make choices, just go slowly and read the provided info.

On main widow select the Puppy button.
This will go thru the install process.
Install Puppy version to the 2nd partition.
It will provide a way to make a directory(folder) to put the frugal install in.
Do that. Best if you name it the name of the Puppy version or similar.
Carefully read that pages information. Pressing OK does not make the directory. Pressing enter key does.
Complete install.

Back at main window.
Select boot button.
This will install the boot loader.
Choose to install to the first partition.
You can choose UEFI or legacy or both.
Both will install both types of boot loaders, so both will provide for UEFI and legacy booting.

When complete you should have Puppy version as a frugal install on the 2nd partition.
The Grub2 boot loader on the first partition.

Note:
On a normally setup UEFI (secure boot enabled) it will require installing the Puppy security key.
When you boot.
The Puppy security key install will run and walk you through installing the security key.

Note:
Frugalpup installer topic is here:
viewtopic.php?p=1588#p1588

Nope.
I've tried twice. I don't think I've made an error.
Main machine, Dell Optiplex 990 running Linux Mint xcfe 64 bit.
Secure boot in BIOS disabled and boot priority set to USB.
ISO Bionic Pup in downloads on Linux Mint.
Gparted used to format and partition drive as outlined in your post. One partition Fat32, size 300 MB the other made as a primary (?) partition using Ext4. Fat 32 partition flagged as boot.
Bionic pup ISO on SDA1

Two 16 gb San disc flash drives.

Bionic pup unpacked to flash drive SDA2 (unpartitioned and boot enabled)
Machine shut down and rebooted to use unpacked Bionic pup on SDA 2. All good. Booted and I updated the OS. I also set time date and keyboard so I could access the net and follow your post.
Went through your instructions. Seemed to go okay. Sent install to Ex4 and Grub to Fat. No alarm bells.
Went to shut down. Made a 4GB save file (already worried because this in the end has been a problem when I've done other installs. Later, when I go to enlarge the save file it doesn't work and I'm stuck with 4 gigs which is no use to me)
Removed SDA2 and tried to boot with SDA3 partitioned drive.
Screen says can't find.....and kernel needs to be installed. Lots of stupid options in the pre boot menu, pup, bionic pup, pup 64 etc Tried the lot. The only one that worked was shutdown.

Now nobody is going to die from any of this but my thoughts are if getting Puppy to boot and having the entire drive bar the boot section to store files of any size in is this complicated then as UEFI and 64 bit takes a harder grip on new machines and Distros like Ubuntu self install without such problems then Puppy is going to slowly die out, unless someone can come up with an install method that is straightforward and works for the vast majority of machines.
I think that would be a terrible shame. I had Puppy Linux Xenial 32 bit running on another computer since its release. It was by far the best distribution I've used. I've tried a lot of Linux distros for an average user and Xenial was fast, easy to do a full install with, and relatively crash proof despite running from root.

I'm going to try the sym link method next.

On a general point; my reason for wanting a 'complete' OS that would be fast and bootable from any computer within reason on a USB stick is fast becoming obsolete. The new Mini PC N33 I bought recently for 130 Euros, plus a couple of cables is small enough to be truly portable. Despite its small size and seemingly low spec it performs for the majority of tasks as well as the i5 Dell Optiplex. But, with many recent PC's offered as screen and machine in one with UEFI as default and windows pre installed, one can't access the BIOS without going through windows and this makes some of the advantages of puppy negligible as a plug in anywhere solution. I've yet to test how one goes about just making use of the screen, keyboard and mouse with such systems.

I'll be back after some more fiddling.

[Jarrett]

It's pissing down here (Spain) so my planned day is washed out and I've fiddled some more.
I've got Bionic Pup 64 bit on a flash drive. I just went through the standard install having formatted the flash drive, kept the drive as a single primary partition formatted to Fat 32.
No problems.
But when I went to resize my personal storage space, while the menu came up and the right options with it, after the required shutdown, once again the personal storage space stayed at 3.9 Gigs. I tested it with one of the large files I use regularly and need in one piece on my portable OS. Apparently the file was too big for the storage space. This would seem to indicate that the personal storage resizer doesn't work.

Also, if my memory serves me Xenial pup gave the option for a Full Install to a flash drive. This option doesn't seem to be available in Bionic pup. I'm going to have to check whether I managed this with a 64bit or 32bit Xenial.

[Jarrett]

Just tried out Bionic Pup install on the N33 mini PC.
It seemed to install fine until it came to loading Grub4Dos. I couldn't find anywhere to put it because all the boot stuff is in it's own partition.
I'm sure it's possible to alter this partition but it's beyond my comfort zone.
Tried to run Bionic Pup on a friends Dell Inspiron 24 5000. It wouldn't boot Bionic pup citing no Uefi comparability.
Tried on my old 32 self built system (legacy boot only) Yep, no worries booted and installed without a hitch.
Tried on my Optoplex 990. Both legacy and Uefi options. Yup, booted and would do a full install.
The only machine here that I haven't tried it on is my ancient Sony Vaio laptop and that's because it won't boot from USB without using Plop.
On the N33 mini PC as long as one doesn't try to install Bionic Pup it will see it and it's useable (the restrictive 3.9 save file still a problem).
Going to see if I can find something intelligible on symlinking next and give that a try.

[mikeslr]

Edited:
Fat32 has a 4Gb size limit. https://wiki.vuze.com/w/FAT32_file_siz ... 20systems.. Mike Walsh may be thinking about ntfs, but Wrong. Oops, my bad. See jafadmin's post, viewtopic.php?p=7415#p7415.

[Almost makes me feel miserly about having a boot partition as small as 50 Mbs. Also reminds me that my Left-Brain doesn't always know what my Right-Brain is doing. Like taersh, I've also bought 16 Gb USB-Keys formatted Fat32. Still, I think the following is a better way to partition a USB-Key].

UEFI bootloaders require Fat32. Hence the need to create two partitions: a small FIRST fat32 boot-partition followed by one or more larger partitions with your choice of formatting. Most of the posts suggest one Linux (2, 3, or 4), but I use two: (a) a 2nd Fat32 partition of 1 Gb +/- to be used as temporary storage for files I intend to copy into a Windows system. By default Windows can not read Linux Formatted partitions. While you can install programs which will, as Puppies can safely be run without virus protection but windows can't, I don't want Windows automatically reading Linux partitions. In the absence of such programs, if a USB-Key has a Fat32 or ntfs partition following a Linux partition, Windows won't see it. It stops reading the Key when it confronts a Linux partition. So the 3rd partition holds my Puppy files. It's formatted Linux as that provides Puppies with the most options.
One such option is to use a SaveFolder rather than a SaveFile. Unlike a SaveFile which is created with a fixed size (resizable but requiring a reboot) a SaveFolder starts out small (a couple of bytes) but automatically expands as you install applications and write datafiles into it. If necessary, it can expand to use the entire available space on its partition.
Unlike a Full install, a SaveFolder is easily copied/backed-up. Unlike a Full install, a SaveFolder can use application SFSes. An Application SFS --;such as LibreOffice or Gimp-- make upgrading foolproof. An SFS is not installed, just loaded. You can unload an old version, load a new and if there's a problem with the new, reverse the process. [By contrast, install a new application and you've over-written the old. Uninstall may remove not only the new files but files the old required].

A SaveFolder can be used on a USB-Key and provides all the benefits of a Full Install.

I keep reading posts by people who claim to have done a Full Install to a USB-Key, or tried to. IIRC, those posts are all by 'newbies'. Has any 'old hand' actually done one? AFAIK, the only installer application capable of doing a Full Install is Menu>Setup>Puppy Installer --which you can't use with UEFI computers. A couple years ago I tried to do a Full Install to a USB-Key but it wouldn't let me. I think I even tried formatting the Key so that Puppy would see it as a Hard-drive. But I don't recall if I tried partitioning the Key and doing a Full Install to a 2nd Linux Formatted partition.

Are you going to be compiling applications from your USB-Key? Rendering large video files? As far as I know, those are the only justifications for employing a Full install: by constantly moving files out of RAM, Full Installs effectively provide more RAM for RAM intensive processes. But also keep in mind one other Factor: USB-Keys have write limits beyond which they are expected to fail. Those limits are in the 100,000s. But each change --delete one letter is a change-- can also involve a Write. On a Full install applications which are RAM intensive can also be WRITE intensive. And, of course, the thru-put of USB-Keys is at least 10 times slower than to a hard-drive. Consequently, the entire idea of a Full Install to a USB-Key in order to compile programs or render videos seems to me to be somewhat asinine.

[Jarrett]

Having spent most of the day on this I've come to the conclusion that I'm wasting my time. It does not seem to be feasible (it may well be possible with extensive linux knowledge) to make an install to a 16gig flash drive and have the rest of the drive available for storage of any file size.
That's problem 1.
Neither of the modern machines I've tried to install Bionic Pup 64 bit wanted anything to do with it. They see it in the boot order but wont install it.
That's problem 2
It does say somewhere in the installation process that UEFI is NOT supported and this seems to be the case. On many modern machines while there is a legacy option (I believe they were required to have this by law) it doesn't work in many cases. This would seem to be born out by Intel's commitment to only make processors that support UEFI after the seventh generation. Anything after that and you're stuffed.

I may have made mistakes in the installation process but I was very careful.
I can get BP 64 to install on the older machines so I must be doing something right.

You certainly used to be able to do a full install to USB on legacy based 32 bit machines because I've had such an installation. I can't do it now. There isn't even that option on Bionic Pup 64. People seem confused about the advantage of a full install to a USB stick. The advantage is the whole drive is available for storage with no restriction on file size.

Thank you to those who have tried to help. I can't help thinking that their experience is based on less recent hardware. Computers have changed. Some distributions have the UEFI code , for examples Ubuntu, Peppermit, Linux Mint, and these provide a straightforward installation that works out of the box.
I guess it's time to move on.

[williams2]

People seem confused about the advantage of a full install to a USB stick. The advantage is the whole drive is available for storage with no restriction on file size.

A frugal install using a save-folder can use all of the space available in the folder, which is all of the space in the partition that the save-folder is on. There is nothing a full install can do that a frugal install can not do.

I am running BionicPup installed from bionicpup64-8.0-uefi.iso

It has uefi in the name because it has an uefi image file in the iso. The name of the file is efi.img

There is a copy of the lick installer in a folder named Windows_Installer
In the README.txt file in that folder it says:

## UEFI Systems with Secure Boot
LICK supports secure boot, but requires a manual step during the first
reboot.

I have not booted BionicPup using uefi, I have secureboot disabled and legacy boot enabled, which does work on my machine.

[bigpup]

I can tell you for sure you are doing something wrong!!!

Because Puppy is trying to still support very old hardware it has several different installers and boot loaders that can be used.

It also has nothing that does installs automatically, because you should be given choices.

Talking about several different computers is just a mess of confusion trying to read a topic and provide help.

The Frugalpup Installer is an attempt to provide a installer program that can install a boot loader that will work on any computer.

If you want to keep trying to figure out what you are doing wrong. We will figure it out.
But only talk about one specific computer and what it is doing!!!!!

About the 4GB size limit for a save file on a fat 32 format.
You can choose to put stuff in specific locations that are outside of the save.
Not so much installed added programs, but about anything else.
Pictures, documents, videos, downloaded program packages, etc......
Location /mnt/home is outside of the save. Also another separate partition on the same drive is not in the save.
example:
Running Fossapup64 9.5, installed in Folder fossapup64905 (Frugal) with it's save in that same folder.
Notice all the stuff that is located not in the save, but still on the USB drive.

Screenshot(5).png (51.3 KiB) Viewed 2266 times

If you followed what I posted about using Frugalpup Installer it should just work.
One possible problem if you did not update Bionicpup correctly.
When you run Frugalpup Installer.
Does it say it is v20?
.

Screenshot(4).png (53.32 KiB) Viewed 2266 times

For that very new computer.
Fossapup64 9.5 may be the Puppy version you need to be installing using Frugalpup Installer.
Frugalpup can run in any Puppy and install any Puppy using the specific Puppies iso file.

Does the small fat32 partition look like this when you finish the install?
Choosing to install both boot loaders?
.

Screenshot(1).png (19.38 KiB) Viewed 2259 times

[bigpup]

About the Puppy save.
If you make it on a ext 2, 3, or 4 formatted location.
It can be made a save file or a save folder.
A save folder is just a folder and acts like a folder.
A save file is a file made a specific size, with free space inside it, that can be used. It can be placed on any format.

We have all been where you are about how to do things in Puppy.
We are Puppy!
Resistance is futile!
Learn you must!

[mikewalsh]

@Jarrett :-

Hold your horses, pardner. Don't bail out just yet. There's still a couple of things we can try.

I've just successfully installed 10wt3ch's "Studio 13.37" v3.3, Bionicpup64-based DAW to a 64GB SanDisk Cruzer 'Fit', and have it booting on this relatively new, UEFI-equipped HP Pavilion desktop.....both from its own, onboard Grub4DOS menu entry, and from my 'main' Grub4DOS menu that does the entire kennels.

As for your comment about legacy booting after 7th-gen 'Core', I'm not certain where you read that. This HP runs 8th-gen "Coffee Lake", and all my Pups boot from legacy.....!

(*shrug*)

-------------------------------------------------------

First, clear your flash-drive completely. In gParted, ->Device->Create new partition table. It's always beneficial to re-do this anew. Choose the default 'msdos' option; this always works, and GPT is a complete waste of time with a 16 GB flash drive, anyway.

Re-format your flash drive as follows:-

Partition #1 - Fat32, 256 MB.
Partition #2 - Ext3, 12 GB.

In the remaining space, create a 512 MB swap partition right at the end, then leave the rest of the space unformatted. It won't be very big, I know, but any 'empty' space on a USB drive can only help the controller chip, as & when it's 'juggling' blocks around as things get deleted and re-written. Makes its life easier, y'know?

Lastly, set the 'boot' flag on the small FAT32 partition. That's your drive taken care of.

---------------------------------------

This will be a frugal install.....but don't worry, we'll do things in such a way as to maximise file-storage space, OK?

In the Ext3 partition, create a sub-directory for Bionicpup64. Give it a distinctive, but easy to remember name; "Bionic64" will be as good as any.

Mount the Bionicpup64 ISO, so you can view the contents. Just for convenience's sake, copy the lot across to the sub-directory you've just created.

Now; find Grub4DOS; Menu->Setup->Grub4DOS bootloader config. Select your flash-drive, and make sure to tick the check-box for "Search only within this device", all right?

Let it search, and just follow it through, and allow it to install the Grub4DOS stuff to the wee FAT32 partition.....which will be sdb1, or sdc1, something like that. As it's installed, this won't boot, but we're going to modify the boot entry. With me so far?

----------------------------------------------------

Go into the boot partition, and open up "menu.lst" with Geany. Now; this is where we employ a bit of chicanery to get things behaving themselves.

Before you go any further, open a terminal, and run the

Code: Select all

blkid

....command. This will list UUIDs for all your partitions, including any attached drives (such as your flash drive). Leave the terminal open; you'll need this in a moment.

In Geany, delete the boot entry Grub4DOS has just written for Bionicpup64.....and replace it with the following:-

Code: Select all

title Studio 13.37_DAW (sdc2/Studio1337)
  find --set-root uuid () bdc969fa-95a7-4e5b-b550-688496e36566
  kernel /Studio1337/vmlinuz  pdrv=bdc969fa-95a7-4e5b-b550-688496e36566 psubdir=/Studio1337 pmedia=usbhd pfix=fsck
  initrd /Studio1337/initrd.gz

Obviously, this is for my flash-drive, running Studio 13.37. What you will need to do is:-

• Rename your title

• Where I have 'Studio1337', replace this with 'Bionic64' (as suggested above).....or whatever you've named your Pup's sub-directory.

• You'll need to replace that string of numbers & letters with the entry in the terminal that corresponds with your own second partition on the flash-drive (sdb2, sdc2, whatever).

I've used 'usbhd' for the pmedia parameter, instead of 'usbflash'. It's not strictly correct, but it seems to function better for UEFI because of the way in which UEFI labels things. As far as UEFI is concerned, everything is a hard-drive!

----------------------------------------------------------

Assuming this boots - it ought to - shut down, and create either a save-file, or a save-folder, I'd recommend the 2nd option, since it makes more intelligent use of the space. Shut-down, then re-boot back into it again.

At the same level as your Puppy's sub-directory on the Ext3 second partition (this will be /mnt/home), create a directory - I just label mine 'DATA' - then inside it, create a number of directories; 'Music', 'Picture', 'Documents', 'Videos'.....you get the idea. Or you could create these directly beside Pup's directory.....it really doesn't matter.

Open a second ROX window on /root, then sym-link those newly created directories into /root, using the method I demo'd above. In this case, you can use the Link (relative) option, since these things will not be getting moved around.

This way, if owt goes wrong with your Pup, and you have to re-install, you can do so without losing your personal data.

---------------------------------------------

Let us know what happens, please. I may be totally 'off-base'; I know it's not the 'full' install you wanted, but believe me, a frugal install is one hell of a lot more flexible, and has too many advantages to list.

As far as Puppy's concerned, the full install really is a very 'old-hat' way of doing things.....and Puppy was never intended to work like that.

(I fully expect this post to be completely ignored, BTW.....)

Actually, I really don't know why Jarrett has bothered to ask about this at all, since he clearly knows FAR more about Puppy than 'mere' long-term Puppy users can help him with! Ah, don't mind me; I'm having 'one of those days'.....


Mike.

[bigpup]

mikewalsh,

I have never had to do all of that to get a working Grub4dos boot loader menu entry to work on a UEFI bios computer as long as secure boot is disabled and it is set with legacy boot enabled.

All I ever do is:

Menu->Setup->Grub4DOS bootloader config. Select your flash-drive, and make sure to tick the check-box for "Search only within this device", all right?

Let it search, and just follow it through, and allow it to install the Grub4DOS stuff to the wee FAT32 partition.

Example entry from mine on a USB HD:
Fossapup is installed on the 3rd partition.

title Puppy fossapup64 9.0.5 (sdb3/fossapup64905)
find --set-root uuid () 24a14d90-6d75-4276-a6a0-ef026f8d07cf
kernel /fossapup64905/vmlinuz pdrv=24a14d90-6d75-4276-a6a0-ef026f8d07cf psubdir=/fossapup64905 pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
initrd /fossapup64905/initrd.gz

Are you using the latest version of Grub4dos Config?
v1.9.3

Note:
It would change the pmedia= to reflect what device it found the Puppy files on.

I am booting this Grub4dos boot loader on a very,very,new UEFI computer.
It works as long as the UEFI is in legacy mode operation.
In normal UEFI operation it will not boot.
Have to use Grub2 boot loader that is the UEFI boot loader provided by Frugalpup Installer.

[Jarrett]

I'll respond to other posts once I've finished fiddling.
This is for BigPup.

I’m beginning to feel like a man who has walked into a church holding a full congregation and shouted God doesn’t exist. The evidence supports the statement, but faith overrides the evidence and the man gets stoned to death.

This is the machine. It’s an N33 Mini PC.
It came with Windows 10 preinstalled.
I removed Windows 10 by installing Linux Mate 64 bit. Since then there have been a few other Linux distributions installed and removed.
This is the current state.

Code: Select all

System:    Host: shadrach-N33 Kernel: 5.4.0-48-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 7.5.0 
           Desktop: Xfce 4.14.1 tk: Gtk 3.22.30 wm: xfwm4 dm: LightDM 
           Distro: Linux Mint 19.3 Tricia base: Ubuntu 18.04 bionic 
Machine:   Type: Mini-pc System: BESSTAR TECH LIMITED product: N33 v: N/A serial: <filter> 
           Mobo: BESSTAR Tech model: AB1A serial: <filter> UEFI: American Megatrends v: 0.02 
           date: 04/01/2020 
CPU:       Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Celeron N3350 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Goldmont rev: 9 
           L2 cache: 1024 KiB 
           flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 4377 
           Speed: 2360 MHz min/max: 800/2400 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 2363 2: 2288 
Graphics:  Device-1: Intel driver: i915 v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0 chip ID: 8086:5a85 
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.8 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa 
           resolution: 1280x1024~60Hz 
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel HD Graphics 500 (APL 2) v: 4.6 Mesa 20.0.8 
           compat-v: 3.0 direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Device-1: Intel Celeron N3350/Pentium N4200/Atom E3900 Series Audio Cluster 
           driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:0e.0 chip ID: 8086:5a98 
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.4.0-48-generic 
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet driver: r8169 
           v: kernel port: e000 bus ID: 01:00.0 chip ID: 10ec:8168 
           IF: enp1s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
           Device-2: Intel Wireless 3165 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel port: e000 bus ID: 02:00.0 
           chip ID: 8086:3165 
           IF: wlp2s0 state: down mac: <filter> 
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 57.62 GiB used: 14.55 GiB (25.3%) 
           ID-1: /dev/mmcblk1 model: SLD64G size: 57.62 GiB serial: <filter> 
Partition: ID-1: / size: 55.97 GiB used: 14.54 GiB (26.0%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/mmcblk1p2 
USB:       Hub: 1-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 8 rev: 2.0 chip ID: 1d6b:0002 
           Hub: 1-3:3 info: NEC HighSpeed Hub ports: 2 rev: 2.0 chip ID: 0409:005a 
           Device-1: 1-3.1:5 info: Saitek PLC Eclipse II Keyboard type: Keyboard,HID 
           driver: hid-generic,usbhid rev: 2.0 chip ID: 06a3:8021 
           Device-2: 1-3.2:6 info: Logitech G3 (MX518) Optical Mouse type: Mouse 
           driver: hid-generic,usbhid rev: 2.0 chip ID: 046d:c051 
           Device-3: 1-7:4 info: Intel type: Bluetooth driver: btusb rev: 2.0 chip ID: 8087:0a2a 
           Hub: 2-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 7 rev: 3.0 chip ID: 1d6b:0003 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 40.0 C mobo: N/A 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
Repos:     No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list 
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list 
           1: deb http: //packages.linuxmint.com tricia main upstream import backport #id:linuxmint_main
           2: deb http: //archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic main restricted universe multiverse
           3: deb http: //archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic-updates main restricted universe multiverse
           4: deb http: //archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic-backports main restricted universe multiverse
           5: deb http: //security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ bionic-security main restricted universe multiverse
           6: deb http: //archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ bionic partner
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/starws-box-deadbeef-player-bionic.list 
           1: deb http: //ppa.launchpad.net/starws-box/deadbeef-player/ubuntu bionic main
Info:      Processes: 166 Uptime: 37m Memory: 3.70 GiB used: 554.9 MiB (14.7%) Init: systemd 
           v: 237 runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 7.5.0 alt: 7 Client: Unknown python3.6 client 
           inxi: 3.0.32 

There are four visible partitions on the drive:
4.2MB Block Device / dev /mmcblk1boot0
4.2MB Block Device / dev / mmcblk1boot1
Filesystem Partition 1 537MB FAT
Filesystem Partition 2 61GB Ext4




I formatted a 16GB Scan Disc Cruzer Fit flash drive using Gparted.
Partition 1; Fat 32 300MB and set flag as boot.
Partition 2 Fat 32, rest of flash drive.


I formatted another 16GB Scan Disc Cruzer Fit flash drive using Gparted, a single partition Fat32 with boot flag set.

I copied a a hash tag checked Bionic Pup 64 bit ISO into My Documents in Linux Mint and unpacked it to the single partition flash drive using the application supplied by the Linux Mint distribution.
I unpacked this to the unpartitioned flash drive.
Primarily as a check, I shut down the computer, insert the flash drive contaning the unpacked copy of Puppy and reboot the machine going into the boot order menu before Linux Mint loads.
This is what the boot order shows.

Ubuntu (Linux Mint in this case)
UEFI: SanDisk
Windows Boot Manager (which I cant open)
Enter Setup (which takes me to the BIOS menus)

I select Uefi San Disk and Puppy Linux boots up.
I shut the machine down without saving anything.

I insert the flash drive with the two partitions, Fat 32 300 and Fat 32 for the rest.
Reboot the machine and select Uefi: San Disc which has Puppy on.
I click on Update and ensure I have V20 of the flash installer.
Click on menu and then click on Flash Installer.
I mount mmcblk1boot1 which contains the Puppy ISO and copy this to My Folders in Bionic Puppy.
I go through the instructions, picking the twin partitioned drive as the target drive for the installation.
A menu arrives that asks where to find either a CD or an ISO, or a File containing Bionic Pup.
I click on ISO file and direct the manager to the ISO that is now in My Documents in Bionic Pup
The application copies the required files, puts up a notice telling me that it all seems to have gone okay and I should unmount and remove the media and shut down.
The only drives that are mounted at this point are the original Bionic pup and Linux Mint.
I unmount both and shut down.
I insert the flash drive containing the newly installed Puppy and boot the machine.
I go back into the boot order menu and pick the flash drive to boot from.
(the machine can see the flash drive but it won’t boot.

Note; none of the menus you mention in your post show in this installation process.

That’s method 1.

[Jarrett]

Actually, I really don't know why Jarrett has bothered to ask about this at all, since he clearly knows FAR more about Puppy than 'mere' long-term Puppy users can help him with! Ah, don't mind me; I'm having 'one of those days'.....


Mike.
Puppy "stuff" ~ MORE Puppy "stuff"
_______________________________________________________

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No need for this really is there?
I've come to the beginners forum in an attempt to install a new version of a distribution I've had running on a legacy only 32 bit machine for some time.
I am pissed off because Xenial Pup on the above as a full install was the best OS i've ever used. It was incredibly fast, very low in CPU usage, small in size.
I am also trying to point out that the installer options may be broken, or unsuitable for people of my level of interest and intelligence. Horrific thought this may seem to you, there are a lot of us about.
I expect, given enough time and helpful information I would get some form of Bionic Pup running on the hardware I've got.
This isn't really the point though. Being representative of the average non competent Linux user means I rather expect the options given in the distribution to work out of the box so to speak. I don't think that is unreasonable. I seem to have sufficient intelligence to get other Linux distributions working.
The average user is not going to be prepared to come onto a forum and spend hour after hour tinkering around with various suggestions that so far for me have not produced a working operating system. You perhaps and other enthusiasts may have the time and enjoy the process; I usually have better things to do with my life.
I will however try out your suggestions. Thank you for bothering to post them.