Trying Vanilla pup; issues

[Wziris]

I have tested Vanilladpup on a usbflash. I cannot connect internet with a usb modem, i cannot remasterize, Wine no work.
These apps works on Fossapup

[Clarity]

Hi @Wziris There are 5 different versions of VDPup from @dimkr that are discussed on this thread. Each has different characteristics, individually. For example, there are 4 different that are version 10s as well as a v9 for our 64bit PCs..

Which are you using?

[dimkr]

How do I get hold of libgconf-2.so.4 please?

https://packages.debian.org/search?suit ... onf-2.so.4

apt install libgconf-2-4

[dimkr]

Wine no work.

Wine will work if you install it via dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt update && apt install -y wine wine32 wine64

[greengeek]

https://packages.debian.org/search?suit ... onf-2.so.4

apt install libgconf-2-4

Thanks for the link and code. Unfortunately I still seem to have a problem accessing the package:

Code: Select all

~$ apt install libgconf-2-4
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package libgconf-2-4

Any thoughts what I am doing wrong?

[dimkr]

If this is the first time you're installing a package, you need to apt update first. This will download the package lists from the package repo.

[greengeek]

If this is the first time you're installing a package, you need to apt update first. This will download the package lists from the package repo.

Thank you, that solved it.

I was also trying to get hold of libpng12 but it appears that debian does not offer this. (Saw some comment about libpng12 being related to an installler function and "should not be installed into a running debian").

Is it silly of me to try running existing scripts and utilities (which run on my other pups) on Vanilla? Should I only use software built for debian? Do I have to discard all my existing pets?
(I was trying synview32 which I use to display self-scrolling text files in other pups)

[dimkr]

Your problem is not dpup specific. You're trying to run applications built on some old distro, against old libraries, on a much newer distro that no longer carries these old libraries. Either rebuild those applications against up-to-date libraries or manually copy over these old libraries.

[ozsouth]

@greengeek - libpng12 (64bit) attached below. Probably need to symlink as libpng12.so.0

[greengeek]

Your problem is not dpup specific. You're trying to run applications built on some old distro, against old libraries, on a much newer distro that no longer carries these old libraries. Either rebuild those applications against up-to-date libraries or manually copy over these old libraries.

Thanks for the guidance. I currently lack the ability to compile reliably so for now I will try using LD_LIBRARY_PATH methods to get my favourite pets running - rather than dumping extra libs into the main VDPup structure.

(I plan on having no persistence - I just want to keep the basic VDPup small and neat - and just use pets or sfs to add functionality appropriate to each session).
Cheers!

[greengeek]

libpng12 (64bit) attached below. Probably need to symlink as libpng12.so.0

Thank you! (Can I ask where/how did you find this? I had no luck looking in the Debian repos)

[mikeslr]

I've run into the 'missing libpng12' problem a couple of times. (I think the latest was trying to run portable XVidcap under a recent Puppy). As dimkr noted you won't find old libraries in the repositories of recent distros. Usually I solve the problem by using one I flinched from an older Puppy. But IIRC on one occasion I downloaded libpng16 --maybe from this link from pkgs.org, https://debian.pkgs.org/11/debian-main- ... deb.html-- extracted the deb, placed the libpng16.so-SOMETHING file in /usr/lib and created there a symlink to it named libpng12.so.-WHATEVER-THE-APPLICATION-LOOKED-FOR.

FYI, newer libs are often backward-compatible.

[greengeek]

on one occasion I downloaded libpng16 -- extracted the deb, placed the libpng16.so-SOMETHING file in /usr/lib and created there a symlink to it named libpng12.so.-WHATEVER-THE-APPLICATION-LOOKED-FOR.

Thanks. One of the problems I have is knowing which to choose.
I finally realised I can select "i386" on the debs page to reduce the visible choices - but I'm still uncertain of the best choice.
For example - which of the following might be the best choice for Vanilla 9.2.24?
(I guess a purist would say let apt do the choosing - but at the moment I am keen to see how Vanilla works with me just doing stuff the hacky way I always have...)

DebChoices.png (52.37 KiB) Viewed 1719 times

[ozsouth]

@greengeek - I've had it for ages & not sure where I got it. I do know that 64bit libpng12.so.0.56 is in slacko64-6.3.2 (32bit version is in slacko-6.3.2), both in ibiblio.org repo - see: https://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/

[wiak]

I've normally need libpng12 for older WPS office I use.

Checking my cherrytree notes... I have normally fetched it via info here: https://www.linuxuprising.com/2018/05/f ... -1804.html

Been a while so can't guarantee that still works.

Alternatively Arch Linux still seems to provide in via its official community rep and also libpng12-git from its AUR public-created repo. AUR pretty much always has everything when no longer in official repos...

but that linuxuprising link was for apt-based systems albeit Ubuntu mainly

[mikeslr]

...Thanks. One of the problems I have is knowing which to choose.

My 'Rule of Thumb' is stick as close as possible to your Puppy's binary compatible distro and version. Sometimes it doesn't matter: the difference between the version packaged for one distro and another being only the use of a packaging format the respective distros recognize: insignificant when you're going to UExtract the package . But sometimes there are significant differences; and the likelihood of that increases as you get further away from your binary compatible. For example, trying to use a Slackware lib in a Ubuntu system. On the other hand, there's rarely a problem using a debian lib in a Ubuntu or vice-versa.
Occasionally even within a Distro, version differences may matter. Newer libs may reflect some beneficial change; but may also have slightly different dependencies.

In this case, I think you're in luck. IIRC, VanillaDpup is binary compatible with debian Bullseye. dimkr likely mentioned it in one of the early posts about it.

[greengeek]

I've normally need libpng12 for older WPS office I use.

Thanks - WPS was one of the programmes I needed this for.
Seems that VDPup 9.2.24 needs 32bit libpng12 so I have pinched it from Tahr32.
All good so far. (Although I am not 100% certain where I should be putting libpng since /usr/lib seems to have very few libs lying around loose (in contrast to all other pups I have used...)

[greengeek]

In this case, I think you're in luck. IIRC, VanillaDpup is binary compatible with debian Bullseye. dimkr likely mentioned it in one of the early posts about it.

Great thanks! I shall stick to the bullseye repos in future. That should be easy to remember - I should make myself a wallpaper with a bullseye on it.
(Actually - i have a good feeling about this 32bit version - seems like it may actually hit the bullseye and give me a 32bit pup i can stick with. I like the tight core and i feel it gives me options to build exactly what I want)

[Wziris]

I have a USB modem Huawei E173.How i can use this modem ?

[greengeek]

I want to highlight another issue I am having with VanillaDpup 9.2.24 changing my BIOS clock:

Here is my situation:
- I keep my BIOS clock set to my local time.

- I never use persistence - every time i boot i complete the quicksetup dialog. (Same whether i use Vanilla or my other main puppy - tahr32)

- I now realise that when i boot Vanilla i MUST switch off "Hardware clock is set to UTC" in the Quicksetup dialog when setting my timezone. OK, now that I know about this - it is no problem.

- After I complete quicksetup with my timezone (Pacific, Auckland) the system tray time displays ok. If I then shut Vanilla down normally my BIOS clock remains set correctly (ie to my local time).

So far so good.

However - I see a problem if I run quicksetup then connect to the internet. If I shut down after connecting to the internet Vanilla stuffs up my BIOS clock.

So I guess this is what connman is doing (like someone mentioned).

I think conmann is misunderstanding the difference between these commands:
hwclock
hwclock --utc
hwclock --localtime

EDIT : In order to facilitate troubleshooting - my understanding is that the cli command "hwclock' supposedly tells us what time Puppy believes is currently stored in the RTC (BIOS or CMOS) clock.

However - "hwclock" actually translates the true RTC time by overlaying it with the current timezone (which is usually wrong when Puppy is showing the quicksetup dialog and the user has not corrected timezone yet)

The more useful cli command (for me) to use is "hwclock --localtime" - because then Puppy ignores what it believes is your timezone - and just gives you the true value that is written in the RTC.

[ozsouth]

@greengeek - this issue was one thing that drove me to slackware derivatives - both debian ones & windows always messed up my bios clock.

[greengeek]

I suspect that there is a problem with the way that Connman contacts the NTP server (i assume it is connman doing this but could be some other utility i guess).

It appears that Connman's discussion with the NTP server ignores the fact that I have "unticked" the UTC checkbox in quicksetup.

Basically - the tray clock responds correctly - but Connman goes ahead and changes my RTC clock anyway. (In my view it should only do this if it believes I want the RTC to match UTC).

Here is how I came to this conclusion:
(Basically in summary - after Connman did whatever it did, and screwed up my RTC clock, I then ran Psync timeserver synchronisation and it fixed Connman's cockup)

This is my test:
(no persistence - quicksetup runs)
When i boot Vanilla my tray clock shows the correct time (although thinks GMT is my timezone)
Command "hwclock --localtime" shows the same time as my tray clock and RTC but shows timezone is GMT

Next I run quicksetup and turn off "utc" and select Pacific, Auckland
My tray clock shows the correct time and shows correct timezone NZDT
Command "hwclock --localtime" shows the correct RTC time and NZDT timezone (all good so far)

Next I connect to the internet:
My tray clock still shows the correct time and shows correct timezone NZDT (so no visible clue that anything is wrong)
However: "hwclock --localtime" shows that my RTC has been reset 13 hours backwards from current time. (ie I guess that is UTC)
(I assume that probably Connman thinks I still have ticked "hwclock set to UTC" and has told the NTP server this??)

Next i run Psync: Applications, Setup, Puppy setup, Date/time, Synchronize with time server,
My tray clock still shows the correct time and shows correct timezone NZDT (no visible change)
But now command "hwclock --localtime" shows that Puppy has reset the correct RTC time and NZDT timezone
(see my edit note at bottom of post)

How can Psync get the NTP timesync correct - (respecting my localtime RTC) - when Connman got it wrong.
My guess is that maybe Connman is checking my RTC using the command:
#hwclock

instead of using:
#hwclock --localtime
(because i unticked UTC)

Hope someone else can duplicate this because it's doing my head in.

EDIT : And it seems that the RTC gets changed back to UTC every so often. Is this a feature of Connman?? Or a cron job? Or some other utility??
I guess I will have to run Psync time server synchronisation just prior to every shutdown just to make sure my RTC stays correct.
Hope we can track why this is happening.

EDIT 2: Seems to be about every 5-10 minutes that my RTC clock is being reset by Vanilla. Hard to understand why an OS assumes the right to fiddle with my hardware like this.

[williwaw]

I never use persistence - every time i boot i complete the quicksetup dialog.

wouldnt a little persistence be useful?
viewtopic.php?p=47814#p47814

[greengeek]

wouldnt a little persistence be useful?

I don't find persistence helpful in the testing and development phase. It becomes too easy to pursue irelevant shadows of shadows.
If I am working just with the pristine Puppy as released by the dev then problems are generally more consistent and reproducible.

Once I feel the product is stable then I sometimes use a purpose built adrv or sfs to set up personalisations that I want. (I'm just not at that stage yet with Vanilla - I can see some issues that I want to sort)

[dimkr]

I can see some issues that I want to sort)

Please report them, and be patient.

The NTP thing will be fixed soon.

[greengeek]

I wrote myself a little script to display the value of the RTC every 10 seconds.
This way I could spot the moment when something changed the hwclock.
The image shows the moment where the Psync adjusted clock got changed backwards by something (i assume connman but who knows)

RTC_change_trapped.jpg (36.43 KiB) Viewed 1726 times

I place the script in /root, then rename it without the false.gz suffix, then set permissions to executable.
Then i open a terminal and type:
./clockspy

clockspy.false.gz

(218 Bytes) Downloaded 74 times

(Use ctrl C to terminate)

[dimkr]

Which version you using? Is it < 9.2.20?

[greengeek]

Which version you using? Is it < 9.2.20?

Using 9.2.24

[dimkr]

The fixes that will go into 9.2.25 also went into https://github.com/vanilla-dpup/unstabl ... .0.96-xorg. It's an unstable development build, but if the issue doesn't reproduce, this is it.

[Clarity]

@dimkr. booting your current ISO files in QEMU, I am getting the following results:

Vanilla	QEMU	Bare-metal
v9.2.25-xorg	Yes to desktop	Yes to desktop
v10.0.96-xorg	Yes to desktop	Yes to desktop
v10.0.96-retro	Yes to desktop	Yes to desktop
v10.0.96-xwayland	No. Console ONLY	not-tested
v10.0.96-dwl	No. Console ONLY	not-tested

Booting of ALL of the ISO files in a VM, complete to desktop or console-error, within 30 seconds..

Current QEMU stanza is seen in this screen, below:

DWL Wayland versions STOP here. Cannot start a desktop from here.

VanillaPUP screens.jpg (27.82 KiB) Viewed 1638 times

.

Question

• Am I looking for a bios/uefi parm OR a video parm for resolving the wayland variants booting in QEMU?

Thansk in advance for any assistance