how DO we go about building a Puppy using Woof-CE?

Post by **mikewalsh** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:22 pm

Just out of curiosity, guys.....how DO we go about building a Puppy using Woof-CE? What's the procedure? It's often talked-about, but I still don't understand the first thing about it.

Frankly, I wouldn't even know where to start....

Mike.

dimkr · Post by **dimkr** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:27 pm

mikewalsh wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:22 pm
how DO we go about building a Puppy using Woof-CE? What's the procedure?

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... reparation
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... ne-scripts
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... -on-GitHub

Post by **rockedge** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:14 pm

@mikewalsh

With your new machines you will be quite able to build Puppy's locally using woof-CE.

Try a really simple version using the defaults. Use a Fossapup64 and load the devx.
select a partition space outside of the Fossapup64 file system.
something like /mnt/sdc2 and in this partition:
open a terminal and type git clone https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE.git
once the woof-CE directory is built cd into it (for example : /mnt/sdc2/woof-CE)
open a terminal and run ./merge2out and select the system to build at the script's queries.
This process will create another directory Directory '../woof-out_x86_64_x86_64_ubuntu_focal64'

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Go into the /mnt/sdc2/woof-out_x86_64_x86_64_ubuntu_focal64 directory

: Screenshot(37).jpg (70.95 KiB) Viewed 2800 times

open a terminal and start with script numbered 0 and end with 3 and answer the queried selections

Code: Select all

./0setup
./1download
./2createpackages
./3builddistro

If you made it here you should see an ISO and devx SFS

Post by **mikewalsh** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:19 pm

@rockedge :-

Mm-hm. Okay...

What I would like to end up with is basically a "current" version of Focal Fossa, at whatever 'point-release' stage it's currently up to. Doesn't sound too hard. I have a bunch of 'WORK' areas on my big secondary data drive, with a ton of space. I doubt I'm short of resources for the task.

Let's see what happens.

Mike.

Post by **mikewalsh** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:17 pm

@rockedge / @dimkr :-

Well. Now then....

After installing "git" from the Fossapup64 PPM, I'm now the proud owner of an ISO and devX package for Fossapup64 9.6. Took around 45 minutes from start to finish.....and would have probably been less than that, were it not for the fact that I left it to its own devices during the "create packages" phase. I came back to find it asking me to choose a kernel...

I take my hat off to you guys, I really do (and especially Dima). If a complete idiot like me can fire this script up, plug a few details in at one end & end up with a brand spanking new Puppy at the other, well.......there's hope yet for this community.

Really excellent work. Now; coupla questions, if I may?

I stuck with k5.4.53, 'cos it just works so well with this rig. Qs are:-

Will my existing save-file work with the new version? I know the advice is usually to start from scratch every time, but I'm a lazy bugger..!

Am I right in thinking that fdrvs are largely independent? In other words, will the fdrv from 9.5 continue to work in 9.6 (suitably re-named, of course)?

And finally, the Nvidia driver. I use Phil's Nvidia driver package from the repo for this Asus GeForce GT 710; I can't go to the current newest one from Nvidia, 'cos this GPU is no longer supported by Team Green. Can I assume this will still work?

I'll experiment anyway, of course, but just wanted to get some feedback on this.

Mike.

Post by **rockedge** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:38 pm

@mikewalsh I like your spirit. First back up your save folder/file (of course) and then try to boot your Fossapup64-9.6 using it.

It should work and with time we will see how well.

Post by **mikewalsh** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:18 pm

@rockedge :-

Um....O-kayyy...

Right. It largely works....but I see that Woof-CE's 'standard' ROX desktop has now defaulted to a top taskbar and a centred, bottom dock. Ugh! NOT to my liking at all. And whose idea was it to default to the God-awful desktop settings app that was developed largely, I think, by Micko?

Give me JWM Desk any day. Sorry an' all that, but I hated this default one from the very first time I tried it, several years ago. It's messy; it's untidy.....and it's not at all intuitive.

(*rant over*)

Ah, hell; don't mind me. I run such a highly-customized personal set-up it would have been a flamin' miracle if it HAD functioned 100%. And I've been spoilt by some of Radky's apps..!

The portables all still work OK. Some of my customized scripts will need a bit of re-jigging; I thought I'd edited them all in the save before booting into it, but I'd obviously forgotten just how many I've got in play.

------------------------------

None of which detracts from the point of my previous reply. The current Woof-CE build-system is a breeze to use, and I have nothing but praise for the hard work that's so obviously gone into it.

I might take this opportunity to have a re-think, and do a total redesign of my desktops. I've had a few ideas kicking around inside the largely empty space I laughingly call a brain for a while now, so I'll see if I can tease them out & develop them into something worthwhile.

Now, then.....

Mike.

Post by **rockedge** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:27 pm

Think of it as a blank canvas......... a good start with a fresh, fairly minimum system. As you look around the woof-out you'll see all the possible places one can twist the knobs and turn some dials to make the recipe different. Though I think books can be written on how exactly to do that best.

But what you've built (like a mad scientist) all of it can be adjusted and configured then remastered.......

williwaw · Post by **williwaw** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:15 pm

rockedge wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:27 pm
Think of it as a blank canvas......... a good start with a fresh, fairly minimum system. As you look around the woof-out you'll see all the possible places one can twist the knobs and turn some dials to make the recipe different. Though I think books can be written on how exactly to do that best.

But what you've built (like a mad scientist) all of it can be adjusted and configured then remastered.......

@mikewalsh

would you consider creating (and possibly maintaining if needed) a new topic with a better title and in the appropriate section for documenting yours and others learning experience with woof-ce?

I am planning to give woof a spin soon as winter keeps me inside more, and hope that others will be similarly inspired to test out some of the knobs and dials Rock mentioned. puppy needs more users to become devs, and a dedicated Q and A topic would be nice.

Clarity · Post by **Clarity** » Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:50 am

mikewalsh wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:22 pm
...Frankly, I wouldn't even know where to start...

This is where we need a tutorial video that would accelerate what the links provide attempt.

Maybe someone will provide. (I am not the one, as I am caught up in many other endeavors for the coming 6 months.) Yet, I will offer a critique/comment should one become available.

BTW: This type of tutorial to jump start a "builder" approach to getting a forum distro is needed for the DOGs as well. In this modern age we live, people jump to do things when there is a video present to get one moving. This does not mean that a detailed step by step written document is not helpful. I only mention as the world has changed for the student and seniors I now see versus those old guys like me who read everything. But, I am changing too. "Old DOG (me), new tricks!"

I MUST APPLAUD @fredx181 for his detailing steps for his DOGs. He has certainly stepped up to this apparent benefit, several years ago here in the forum.

williwaw · Post by **williwaw** » Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:41 am

Clarity wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:50 am
Maybe someone will provide. (I am not the one, as I am caught up in many other endeavors for the coming 6 months.) Yet, I will offer a critique/comment should one become available

Ok

proebler · Post by **proebler** » Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:59 pm

This IS becoming a tutorial.
I DO like the written style. ("Old Dog" here)
I do NOT like video tutorials. ( ditto)
This is just my 5 cents worth.
Keep going mikewalsh,
good luck and thanks to everybody!

Post by **mikewalsh** » Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:30 pm

@williwaw :-

would you consider creating (and possibly maintaining if needed) a new topic with a better title and in the appropriate section for documenting yours and others learning experience with woof-ce?

Yah. Can do, I would think. IF I can figure out quite where it needs to go.....

Certainly not a bad idea. I have to confess, the whole thing turned out to be far less painful than I had for a long time surmised it to be. Just have to allow for an hour or so out of your schedule at some point (I'm well aware that not everybody's systems run as fast as this new rig of mine does). An hour ought to cover it, though, tops.

--------------------------------------

As for a video tutorial, heh; I know I've done a few over the years, but if that's a hint I'm going to have to disappoint, I'm afraid. Videos, I can take 'em or leave 'em; I find very few actually go at the slower pace at which I can take stuff in. Too many folks try to tear through tutorials at TOP SPEED, as though their lives depended on it.....given the way the younger generation try to cram 26 hrs into every 24, I get the impression they kinda grudge spending any longer on things than they absolutely have to..!!

I'm with proebler on this; I usually prefer reading & re-reading the written word when I'm trying to "absorb" information and get the jist of things. Although I'm quite visually-oriented, for this kind of thing I actually find videos to be more of a "distraction" than a help.....

That's just me, I'm afraid! Sorry an' all that, specially for those of you who prefer vids.

Mike.

Linux · Post by **Linux** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:57 am

Why did you make it work on 64 processors only
There are many that use 32-bit processors

williwaw · Post by **williwaw** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:46 am

mikewalsh wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:30 pm
Yah. Can do, I would think. IF I can figure out quite where it needs to go.....

someone started a similar thread a few days ago at

viewforum.php?f=124

Post by **mikewalsh** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:10 pm

@rockedge / @dimkr :-

Just had a go at building Jammypup64 with Woof-CE.

Steps 1, 2 & 3 went A-OK. During the final step - the 'build' stage - it spent well over 5 minutes spitting out a shed-load of errors about not finding

Code: Select all

libgtk3-nocsd.so.0

.....and finally quit in a huff because it couldn't find a kernel.

I don't know what this means, or even if this is expected behaviour for such a new Pup......I'm beyond the limits of my understanding of the process here. I'm just reporting what happened.

Mike.

dimkr · Post by **dimkr** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:43 pm

@mikewalsh You can grab a kernel from https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... el-kit.yml (I recommend kernel-kit-output-usrmerge-aufs-5.10.x-x86_64) and extract it to kernel-kit/output. Alternatively, you can just follow https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... -on-GitHub and it will automate the entire process on a clean machine for you.

Post by **mikewalsh** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:30 pm

@dimkr :-

Eurrgh.....I'm afraid you've completely lost me, mate. I followed the links, but I cannot find anything, or make anything happen. All I can see is a ton of references to "workflow runs", and a whole bunch of complicated-looking scripts...

I'm assuming access to all this requires an account to be created?

EDIT:- Actually, I DID create an account a couple of years back! Let's see..... Ah. The links don't become active until you sign-in, do they? Right, right. O-kayyy....

That's got the recommended one downloaded. Better!

Mike.

dimkr · Post by **dimkr** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:50 pm

If downloading a ready-made kernel is too complicated for you, maybe you can try building one.

To build a kernel suitable for jammy64:

Code: Select all

cd kernel-kit
cp -f 5.10.x-x86_64-build.conf build.conf
./build.sh
./usrmerge.sh

or, if you want a 5.4.x kernel for an old Puppy where /lib is not a symlink to /usr/lib, like focal64:

Code: Select all

cd kernel-kit
cp -f 5.4.x-x86_64-build.conf build.conf
./build.sh

(I constantly see reports of download failures in kernel-kit when it's running on Fossapup, due to its outdated CA certificates; generally, I recommend people interested in woof-CE to go for the easy option of running woof-CE directly on GitHub and using the prebuilt kernels, at least until they get the hang of it)

Post by **rockedge** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:52 pm

I also see lots of errors in Fossapup64-9.5 when running kernel-kit scripts and when building with woof-CE and also with @wiak's FirstRib_build_rootfs script there is one particular error that occurs but with FirstRib it doesn't seem to any obvious problems.

This error involving libgtk3-nocsd.so.0 happens 40+ times in a FirstRib build in Fossapup64 but does NOT happen in Bionic64. As mentioned above, this error does not seem to negatively effect the FirstRib build results.

I have not tried a FirstRib script run in the brand new Fossapup84-9.6 yet.

Now on a Bionic64 running with kernel 4.19.82-rt40 all the scripts will run and build with no errors but git config has SSL verification suppressed globally.

Switching to a recent kernel in Bionic64 increases the success rate of building kernel-kit kernels.

I am now having good results with a freshly build woof-CE generated Fossapup64-9.6-CE using the 5.4 kernel and this system has successfully built the kernels 6.0-KLV, 6.0.1-KLV, 6.0.2-KLV

This Fossapup64-9.6-CE was built locally on a Bionic64-CE (any woof-CE using the defaults built distro ends with CE for Community Edition) yesterday and with devx and 32 bit compatibility library loaded has been working well for kernels without AUFS patches.

user1234 · Post by **user1234** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:23 pm

Regarding the current try @mikewalsh did for building jammypup64, I few weeks back was able to build it using Github workflow. Though the end result didn't contain any ubuntu's repositories in PPM and no xrandr was found! Maybe that's why jammy is in development right now.

I know what we are doing is try to successfully build a new puppy, from the latest compat_distro, though I am afraid I don't understand what all needs to be changed and configured to make a puppy version succeed. I have never had any experience in the development process of any OS. Don't know particularly what to do. Can someone please some day post some examples of what makes things work?

Post by **mikewalsh** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:36 pm

@dimkr :-

This business of /bin, /sbin, /lib & /lib64 now being merely sym-links to their counterparts in /usr; was this inspired by the way Void Linux does things, or is this a "sea-change" across the whole Linux landscape?

I haven't run a mainstream distro for several years, so I really have no idea what's been happening across the wider community. If this IS a community-wide change, I have to assume it was initiated by the RedHat/Fedora team, since they appear to be at the leading edge of most of the sweeping changes that seem to have been occurring over the last decade or so.....

Mike.

dimkr · Post by **dimkr** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:51 pm

mikewalsh wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:36 pm
is this a "sea-change" across the whole Linux landscape?

Most distros, especially those that use systemd (= the majority) have changed. It's possible to build a Puppy without those symlinks, but so many packages will be broken - it's not worth it IMO.

OscarTalks · Post by **OscarTalks** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:05 pm

I am no expert in building Puppies in Woof-CE, but regarding the issue of libgtk3-nocsd.so.0 not found
In Debian/Ubuntu there is a package named libgtk3-nocsd0 which contains this, so is it not just a case of adding this to the build recipe?
Apparently it is a preloadable module for disabling client side decorations. There is a github page here:-
https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd
So I guess it could be built from source and included as a .pet alternatively?

Post by **fredx181** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:18 pm

mikewalsh wrote:
This business of /bin, /sbin, /lib & /lib64 now being merely sym-links to their counterparts in /usr; was this inspired by the way Void Linux does things, or is this a "sea-change" across the whole Linux landscape?

It's a pain really, this very drastic change to a "merged-usr" system, for the future of the un-orthodox systems like Puppy (and Debiandog too, btw), not for the main distro's as these are configured for it already.
But probably not much to do about it, I guess major problems will appear if we refuse to go with it.

dimkr · Post by **dimkr** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:00 pm

OscarTalks wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:05 pm
So I guess it could be built from source and included as a .pet alternatively?

These errors are harmless and happen because LD_PRELOAD is set in Fossapup.

Post by **mikewalsh** » Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:16 am

Well, I don't know.

Very curious, this Woof-CE build script.

I've just attempted to build Debian Bullseye from the script. It ran through perfectly.....but the ISO doesn't contain the main DPup SFS! From what I can understand - from what's been said - you almost HAVE to be using the same host as whatever Puppy you're attempting to build..?

These build attempts have all been in Fossapup64. The only one that's built correctly has been.....wait for it.....Fossapup64 itself. Everything else has gone wrong.....

Mike.

dimkr · Post by **dimkr** » Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:28 pm

mikewalsh wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:16 am
you almost HAVE to be using the same host as whatever Puppy you're attempting to build..?

Nope, that's incorrect. You can run woof-CE to build a Debian, Ubuntu or Slackware based Puppy on practically any distro, if it has woof-CE's dependencies and configured correctly.

If you don't believe me, take a clean Debian or Ubuntu machine and follow these steps:

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... ld.yml#L95
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... d.yml#L163
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... d.yml#L167

(And, I'll recommend the option of running woof-CE on GitHub again, see https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... -on-GitHub; it runs in a clean Ubuntu container that's configured properly and can build bionic64, focal64, Slacko 7.x, Slacko 8.x and even dpup, all automatically)

mikewalsh wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:16 am
I've just attempted to build Debian Bullseye from the script. It ran through perfectly.....but the ISO doesn't contain the main DPup SFS!

It probably failed at some point then. Do you still have woof-CE's output?

Post by **mikewalsh** » Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:38 pm

@dimkr :-

dimkr wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:28 pm
mikewalsh wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:16 am
I've just attempted to build Debian Bullseye from the script. It ran through perfectly.....but the ISO doesn't contain the main DPup SFS!

It probably failed at some point then. Do you still have woof-CE's output?

Uh-huh. I do. What d'you need to see?

As for using the pre-configured virtual machine on Github, erm.....I DID try to use it. If you recall from a few posts back, I discovered that a lot of things on Github don't work properly UNTIL you're logged-in.

Even after logging-in, following the illustrated example, I couldn't even set it up! For some reason, after selecting the "Actions" tab, followed by "release" in the side-bar, all I see is a blank page without any way of selecting a release, or version number, or anything else you specify in the example. What should I be clicking on....what am I doing wrong here?

What I see is below:-

[Click to enlarge:-]

I've got a feeling I'm not even in the right place, somehow..... I don't mind admitting I'm rather lost trying to navigate round Woof-CE! You, yourself, probably spend so much time there I guess it's second nature to you by now.....but for me, it is NOT what you would call "intuitive"!

Mike.

dimkr · Post by **dimkr** » Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:46 pm

@mikewalsh You need to fork woof-CE first

: release.png (64.79 KiB) Viewed 2525 times

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