Getting current Firefox version to work on old Slackos

[yolhurt]

I have Slacko 5.6 and 5.7 installed on my old laptop. In general they still work fine. However, I like to use Firefox and the last version I can get working is 78.15 ESR (released Oct 2021). Any version after that gives me the console error message: "libxul.so: undefined symbol: gdk_screen_get_monitor_scale_factor". I know this is a GTK issue, but I was wondering if there is any way to get around it and make a current version of Firefox work on these old distros.
Thanks for any help.

[Phoenix]

Build an up-to-date GTK libraries set. That's the only answer, or find someone who's packaged such libraries.

[mikewalsh]

Hello, @yolhurt :-

Hoo, boy. Now you're asking something.

Amongst all the 64-bit Puppies I run on my main rig, I also run a few 32-bit Puppies; Xenialpup 7.5, Tahrpup (my first-ever Puppy that booted to a working desktop, OOTB, on my ancient 2002 Dell Inspiron laptop), and my own personally-customized re-master of an elderly Puppy that had always worked perfectly on my old rig.....Slacko 5.6.0.

When the old rig died just before the pandemic really got started, in January 2020, I replaced it with this HP Pavilion midi-tower desktop. Because it's UEFI, I soon found out that my "perfect" Slacko 560 refused to boot.

- a) It had to be set-up, along with turning off FastBoot & SecureBoot (and all that MyCrudSoft Windoze crap), to use the efi.boot img and a couple of other things modern Puppies all use.

- b) Since I had to re-build it anyway, I took the time to upgrade the kernel - she now uses the k4.1.48 kernel from radky's DPup 'Stretch' - upgrade the glibc (2.20, up from 560's original 2.15), along with dbus, gtk-3 and a few other things. But even that won't allow running current Firefox, because many of the libraries are simply too old.

My 'workaround' for Slacko 560 is to run browsers and various other apps that insist on newer dependencies from a newer Puppy running in a 'chroot'. This does, however, require that said newer Puppy can actually run on the same machine.....AND that you have sufficient space to set one up (typically between 800-1200 MB). It's not an option for a lot of older hardware, because they don't have the resources.

Are you able to run a newer Puppy on your laptop? What make/model is it? Can you let us have some specs, please?

- CPU
- Amount of RAM
- Size of hard drive
- What graphics are in use, etc...

All the above will help US to help you. Phoenix's suggestion is a good place to start, but by itself won't be anywhere near enough; you'll end up on such a mammoth "lib-chase" that you'll nearly re-build 560 into a newer Puppy anyway. Along with the fact that modern GTK-3.0 won't compile against Slacko's native dependencies and DevX package; I believe the gcc version is now too old.

Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet, accept your hardware/software limitations and work with them as best you can.

Mike.

[yolhurt]

Thank you both for the replies.

After reading what Mike has said, I think I am finally going to have to bite the bullet and just leave these old distros behind. I've been meaning to upgrade to a newer Pup for ages, but losing the comfy-factor of these classic releases and having to start from scratch on a newer distro has kept me from doing it until now. It's too much hassle trying to get things like Firefox to still work, so I think it's time to just upgrade instead.

[mikewalsh]

@yolhurt :-

Trust me, I understand perfectly what you mean by the "comfy-factor"!

Although my old rig was 64-bit capable.....one of the very early boxes that would so, from circa 2005.....I mostly ran 32-bit Pups on there. They just ran so much faster. And 64-bit Pups didn't actually exist when I first joined the community, although they began to appear during the next year or so. Well; JustLighthouse may have been around, but at that time it was the only one, I believe.

My ideal Pups are usually between 3-5 years old. Old enough to have the bugs worked out and become really "solid", yet still new enough - usually!- to still be able to run up-to-date browsers.

Still, my oldest 64-bitzer - a modified version of one of Barry's Quirkies (7.0.1 'April') is now old enough to have problems with many newer apps; this is Tahrpup-era, or thereabouts. But I've invested so much time and effort getting it just how I want it - it's my regular, 'daily driver' - that I really don't want to abandon it. So browsers, etc, run from a Fossapup64 'chroot'.

(I run Fossapup64, too, as a Puppy in its own right, though it doesn't get so much use. Many people have great difficulty understanding why I don't WANT bang-up-to-date software all the time, why I voluntarily choose to run an 'out-of-date' OS. With the chroot, everything that NEEDS to stay up-to-date does, while still allowing me to enjoy my older Puppy...)

(*shrug*)

I must be mad..!

Mike.

[mikeslr]

I also am fond of the Old Puppys. But when my old desktop bit the dust I had an experience like T'other Mike. Its replacement could not run Slacko 5.7.2 CE, viewtopic.php?p=66955&sid=00e5a0f6ab477 ... 41f#p66955.

Let me suggest, at least for now, the 32-bit Xenialpup as a possible substitute. https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... p=578#p578. It's built-in applications and infra-structure are light-weight (less RAM-demanding) in comparison to some more recent Puppys. But it's core systems are still new enough to be able to run the latest firefox. And a wealth of applications have been published for it.

The work amethyst has done to revitalize racy and precise is interesting. See the Racy Extra and Precise Extra in the Remaster Section, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewforum.php?f=119. But I don't know if web-browsers newer than those he mentions will run under those remasters.

[mikeslr]

On second thought, while I can no longer run the Slacko 5.7.2CE I mentioned in my previous post, perhaps you can. Re-reading the linked to post [where you'll find a download link] I note that it says:

"As noted above, the build included libraries necessary to run the then-current firefox-quantum. It should still be able to run any current mozilla-or-clone web-browser. But it won't run any Chromium-or-clones."

Whether that still hold true today, I don't know and can't test.

[amethyst]

Unless Slacko 5.7 is much more advance than the ubuntu line of Precise 5.7, I think it will be extremeley hard to get the latest Firefox running, even after you have had to add a massive amount of missing libraries (which surely will be the case) and a glibc upgrade. Same thing with Chromium. Your best options for a new browser on an old Puppy are Palemoon (easiest to get going in my experience) and Seamonkey. Both are based on Firefox. If you want to use the latest Firefox and Chromium the best option is to use a newer Puppy. I have never used Slacko Puppy's though so not sure if there is a new Palemoon line for that)...

[yolhurt]

Thanks everyone for the informative replies.

Mike's chroot option sounds like a possibility but I think I am better off just starting afresh with a newer Puppy.

I have tried Slacko 5.7.2 CE mentioned by Mikeslr but I got the same GTK error message when trying to run Firefox.

I've used Palemoon in the past but find it a bit clunky and much prefer FF. I might give Seamonkey a try before upgrading.

[mikewalsh]

Mike's chroot option sounds like a possibility but I think I am better off just starting afresh with a newer Puppy.

@yolhurt :-

Oh, yes. Indeedy! A newer Pup will always be the better option, if I do say so myself. Chroots are wonderful things, but you're effectively running one OS inside another, so it's quite resource-heavy. Upgrading to another Puppy - if you're able to! - remains by far & away the lighter alternative...so, better for older hardware. After all, you want to make its life as easy as possible.....don't you?

With a modern quad-core CPU running at almost 4 GHz, 32GB RAM and around 5 TB of storage here, I'm not short of resources. Half the time, the chroot is not really being used for anything serious; I'm just playing around with it to see what it's capable of. I could have half-a-dozen of these running simultaneously, and the hardware would barely notice it.

I suspect your situation is somewhat different, am I right?

Mike.

[yolhurt]

True Mike, the CPU on my old laptop is possibly more clog-core than quad-core.

I had no idea about chroot until reading your post. With more up-to-date hardware I would give it a go, but as you say, upgrading to a newer Puppy is probably the easier/better option for me.

[yolhurt]

My 'workaround' for Slacko 560 is to run browsers and various other apps that insist on newer dependencies from a newer Puppy running in a 'chroot'. This does, however, require that said newer Puppy can actually run on the same machine.....AND that you have sufficient space to set one up (typically between 800-1200 MB). It's not an option for a lot of older hardware, because they don't have the resources.

Are you able to run a newer Puppy on your laptop? What make/model is it? Can you let us have some specs, please?

- CPU
- Amount of RAM
- Size of hard drive
- What graphics are in use, etc...

Hey @mikewalsh (if you're still there), I was rereading this post from a few months ago and have become interested in the chroot idea you mentioned.

These are my current laptop's specs:

CPU = 2.6GHz Core i5-3320M
RAM = 8GB
Hard drive = 256GB solid state
Graphics = Intel HD Graphics 4000

Let's say I wanted to run S15Pup (which I've been using a bit recently) in a chroot from Slacko 5.7 (to be able to use Firefox and a few other bits and bobs). Would this be possible, and if so, how exactly would I do it?

Thanks!

[mikewalsh]

@yolhurt :-

I'd be happy to explain how it works, but let me get back to you on this. I'm just turning in for the night, and it's waaay past my normal bedtime. I'm yawning so hard I swear my jaw's cracking!

Originally, we were playing around with this a few years back, when Darry1966 was messing around with his upgraded 4-series Puppy 4.3.1 - 4.3.11, better known as the "Phoenix". Watchdog first demonstrated the idea, supplying an all-in-one package containing a stripped-back Precise 5.7.1 chroot and an up-to-date version of Pale Moon. I then put together an SFS with a Tahrpup chroot, running a copy of the then-current Iron browser.....v69, as I recall. This was before I started building the 'portable' browsers, so it all had to be added into the regular file-system locations. To say we were all gobsmacked that it actually worked was an understatement!

I might do an upgraded version, though if you want to run it from Slacko 5.7 it'll have to be a 32-bit chroot (the 'chroot' must be the same architecture as the 'host' for it to work properly). I'm posting this in 64-bit Opera, running from 32-bit Xenialpup 7.5 with peebee's recently published 64-bit compatibility SFS.....though I have no idea if it would be possible to make this work in a chroot. I've had no luck getting it to function in older Slackos myself, though that could just be me.

Mike.

[yolhurt]

No worries, Mike, thanks for the quick reply. From what you say it sounds more complicated than I expected. I should probably just drop this idea already and stop trying to cling on to my dear old Slackos, lol. I don't want to create a chroot rabbithole for you to go down, so instead I'm going to ask which of your 32-bit portable browsers would you recommend (an up-to-date one that can run on Slacko 5.6/7 - if such a thing exists).
Cheers.

[mikeslr]

This is simpler. It didn't work on my desktop, but I have problems running an old Slacko on it even without this modification. See here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 517#p78517*

I took what essentially** was sailor enceladus's Slacko 5.7.1 from here, https://www.mediafire.com/folder/kwhxksubf00ny/14.0, and followed the recipe here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 550#p78550. It has two parts: (1) Swap in a 64-bit kernel and associated zdrv and fdrv; and sfs-load a 64-bit compatibility SFS.
You'll know quickly if it works on your computer as set up will only take a couple of minutes. If it works, it's more RAM efficient than a chroot.

---
* Re-reading that post just now it occurred to me that the font problem it reported may have resulted from slacko's failure to load the fdrv.sfs. The initrd of Slacko 5.7.2CE (and Slacko 5.7 original) probably does not have instructions to use a fdrv. They weren't packaged separately when Slacko 5.7 was published. The workaround would be:
place both the fdrv and zdrv associated with your vmlinuz --don't rename them-- in a folder named zdrv_slacko 5.7.X. Install PaDS, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 6355#p6355. Right-Click the folder to create a zdrv_slacko_5.7.X.sfs. X is whatever number, if any, is used in the puppy_slacko_5.7.X. sfs. The process of combining zdrv and fdrv will also only take a couple of minutes, dependent on the speed of your computer.

** I took down the Slacko 5.7.2CE Slacko as (a) I thought it no longer had value and (b) it's major difference from the original 5.7 was to use one of rockedge's real-time kernels.

[mikewalsh]

@mikeslr :-

Even easier would be to use jrb's 'Pupbuild-tools', unpack the initrd.gz, open the init script itself and add a line for the fdrv in the appropriate location (can't miss it, 'cos it sticks out a mile where it should go). Save the init script, re-pack the initrd.gz, then swap the 'modded' version for the original one.

Works a treat.

The original link to 'pupbuild-tools' from this thread on the old Forum is now dead, but I've re-packed my own copy, and attach it here for anyone who's interested. I've found jrb's suite of Puppy 'packaging tools' SO useful over the years, and it's saved me many wasted hours.

Instructions for use inside, courtesy of the man himself.

Mike.

[yolhurt]

Thanks very much, both Mikes! I will give the 64-bit compatibility SFS a go when I get back home to my laptop tomorrow.

[yolhurt]

After spending a few more hours on this, I've decided to finally turn off life support for these old Pups and move on (definitively this time) to a newer distro, probably S15Pup. Cheers anyway for helping me keep them going a bit longer. :-)