Need advice on internal SSD drive install

[Snail]

I am resuscitating an old Thinkpad T400, which has a completely empty SSD as the only internal drive. It will never run Windows again, so there is no reason to have a non-Linux filesystem on it.

I have noticed that the discussion on the Fossapup pages regarding boot only seem to mention Grub4Dos and Grub2. The builtin Install scripts also use one or other of these. In the distant past, I used syslinux/extlinux but there is little mention of it here. Is there a reason to avoid the syslinux ecosystem?

The reason that I ask is that I would prefer not to have to have a Fat or NTFS boot partition, just to suit Grub4Dos. On the other hand Grub2 seems insanely complex to me. I have also read that it is very heavy as well.

Using PFind, I discovered that Fossapup does have extlinux included. If it is in fact a reasonable alternative these days, I'd quite like to get some guidance on it. The documentation I have been able to find is quite incomplete, leaping into a lot of detail before giving the basics. Although I have used syslinux before, I am afraid that my memory fails me in recalling the details

I am booting the Thinkpad from a USB stick with Fossapup 9.5 on it. I am typing this on it now.

The SSD is an old Kingston V300 120GB. So far, I've made a directory, named Fossapup9.5, containing only vmlinuz, initrd and the Fossapup sfs files. I'm intending to create a small ext3 boot partition, to suit extlinux, and an approximately 100GB ext4 partition, leaving 10GB unallocated. I've read that leaving some of the SSD unallocated helps with wear leveling??? Is this reasonable?

Where do I put the various files on the two partitions? Advice I've seen says to have a very small boot partition but that wouldn't fit all the Puppy files, so I'm confused.

After loading all the necessary files in the right places, do I just run extlinux, or is there more to it? Advice I've seen is very inconsistent so far. Help?

[rockedge]

You could just install the MBR boot loader with Grub4Dos on this system it seems

[wizard]

@Snail

I'm typing to you from a Thinkpad x220 configured as MBR with a SSD, ext3 partition and Fossapup9.5. Grub4dos is installed on the ext3 partition. I have my save interval set to 10 minutes to help the wear level. If you haven't already done it, you might want to check the SSD Smart data using SmartChk or HDSentinel both have links on the forum.

wizard

[Snail]

Thanks. I didn't realise Grub4Dos doesn't need a dos-formatted filesystem. I am sure that I have read that it does on this forum. Glad to know that's not the case.

I am still curious about extlinux but, if there is no advice on that, Grub4Dos will do fine.

[Snail]

Wizard, do you have just the one ext3 partition on your SSD? Is that preferable to ext4 on an SSD? Is my unallocated space at the end of the drive helpful, or just a waste of space?

Actually, since you know what you are doing and I don't much, might I ask you for a bit more info on how you actually have your drive set up please?

I assume that the default kernel in FP 9.5 has all the SSD friendly modules needed, e.g. trim?

[Snail]

Wizard, at your suggestion, I downloaded HDSentiel and ran it. It reports a Kingston SV300S37A120... in perfect condition. As it should be, it's never been used!

Thanks for your suggestion.

[mikewalsh]

@Snail :-

I've recently acquired a Dell Latitude D630, of around 2007-8 vintage. It has a 120 GB SSD, which WAS contaminated with Windows. That got exterminated in short order from a LiveCD of Fossapup64.

I re-partitioned with one large ext3 partition, and an 8 GB swap partition. One directory created, and the contents of Fossapup64 copied into it. Then Grub4DOS was run.

This machine is pre-UEFI. The FAT32 'boot' partition is only needed on UEFI machines, since it's a requirement of the UEFI specs. If your machine doesn't have UEFI,then FAT32 is not needed, and everything will work quite happily with Grub4DOS installed on ext3.

Syslinux, etc, are usually supplied with Pups by default, but many of us use Grub4DOS simply because

• a) It's so easy to install, and

• b) We're just used to it.

------------------------------------------

As for leaving 'unallocated space' on an SSD, it's a good idea to leave something like 10% of an SSD unformatted. Even if TRIM is functional with your SSD, it gives the drive's controller room to juggle around 'used' blocks before 'clearing' them and marking them as fit for 're-use'. SSDs, of course, tend to work a wee bit differently to HDDs....

Many folks are of the opinion that this was only necessary in the early days of SSDs, and that these drives can now be crammed to the brim with data. That's as may be, but I tend to have a bit of respect for my hardware, and try to make its life as easy as I can. You look after it.....and it'll pay you back by continuing to work for longer.

Hope that helps.

Mike.

[wizard]

@Snail

MBR drives don't need extra fat32 partitions. There are post on the forum that ext3 is less likely to have issues than ext4 so I have always used ext3. Don't worry about TRIM and here is a good article on un-allocated space:https://superuser.com/questions/1251440 ... ated-space. In short, it is better to have "unused" space in the active partition.

You really can't go to wrong with how you partition the drive. I usually put the Puppy OS on a 20gb (or less) ext3 and then use the rest of the drive as a ext3 "data" partition. All the variable data, sfs, portables, web downloads, etc go in the data partition and are symlinked back into the Puppy partition. @mikewalsh and others on the forum are masters at that technique. I makes it easy to change or swap Puppy's and still share and have access to the same resources.

wizard

[mikeslr]

Little to add. It may be necessary --and can't hurt-- if in creating your boot-partition you set the boot-flag. If you haven't already done so, just run gparted again.

And I also like grub4dos. I miss how easy it was to have a pleasing boot-splash, even if it only appeared for a couple of seconds, see, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 566#p66566

[Snail]

OK. it looks like an all-ext3 setup is the way to go. Is there any reason to have two partitions then? In Windows it makes sense, since the OS is an enormous pile of expensive, over-complicated poo that needs to be backed up in a similarly complex way. Puppy software is simple and easily replaceable and can just be backed up like ordinary files. That being the case, wouldn't the fact that all the Puppy, specific stuff is in one directory enough? Or am I missing something I need to know?

Since this is a very old, budget SSD, it's been languishing in the back of the Odds and Sods drawer for years, I am not confident about the inbuilt wear-leveling. Hence I am not sure that ignoring TRIM is a good idea? Is there a kernel parameter that needs to be passed to enable it? I am sure that pmedia=atahd won't do it, which is what Grub4Dos automatically produced.

As an SSD has a lot in common with a USB stick, I supposed that a frugal install booting fully into RAM would be best. Booting would be slower but the responsiveness should still be better than running from the drive, even if it's an SSD. The T400 only has 4GB of RAM but it should be OK for browsing, as I rarely have more than 3 tabs open. Not sure about running Open Office though. I've never needed a Swap Partition before, should I set up one if Puppy is the heaviest OS I have on this laptop?

If I am running something like Pupmode = 13 but I have symlinked Documents and Downloads to "real" directories on the SSD, I would only want to save if I changed the software. (in the case of the symlinks being set up, I am assuming that if I was working on a file, changes would stay in RAM until I actually saved from within the application. Is this true?) How do I get the save prompt to default to not save? Does anything in this paragraph make sense?

[bigpup]

All SSD drives, that have been produced for some time now, have extra not used storage areas.
The full size amount, the drive is identified as, can be safely used for partitions.

This extra unused space you will never see.

The internal controller, will use it, to replace a bad section, when/if a section goes bad.
You will never see the change.

[wizard]

@Snail
All your questions are legitimate, but in this case there's no one "right" answer. You should partition and organize in whatever way makes sense to you. I can't advise you on "trim" since my drive use is not so rigorous that it would make a difference.

running something like Pupmode = 13

Your assumption is true and it will only write to the save file/folder when directed.

wizard

[Snail]

What do I need to hack to change the default closing-down option in Pupmode=13 from "save" to "nosave"? This would be useful when running off a USB stick as well.

The SSD is nearly 9 years old, even though it's not been used. When the T400 HDD died, I was about to replace it with this SSD when I suddenly had a whole lot of work and I had to rush out and buy a new laptop. My wife has now taken that one over, hence I've finally got back to looking at the T400 again. Not only is it very old, Kingston made some very ethically dubious changes to this model. They released a first batch, which was very fast. Once the initial rave reviews had been received, they then completely changed the internal chipset to a much cheaper technology. There was quite a lot of outrage about it at the time. Hence I don't have a lot of confidence that much, or any, over-provisioning has been implemented. I'm not even sure that it has TRIM implemented, I'm just hoping.

[bigpup]

Most Puppy versions have the program Puppy Event Manager

Settings for how the save works in pupmode13, can be adjusted in the Save Session section of that program.

Select ask at shutdown to save or not save.

When shutdown is done.

You are asked save or no save?

If you do not select save.
The save will not be updated.

[gychang]

As an SSD has a lot in common with a USB stick, I supposed that a frugal install booting fully into RAM would be best. Booting would be slower but the responsiveness should still be better than running from the drive, even if it's an SSD.

My understanding is if FP64 is frugally installed into SSD with save folder also on SSD, this is an optimal setup bypassing usb stick all together. Save folder does not get loaded in RAM on boot with either setup.

[bigpup]

Just install a Puppy version an use it.

You are over think this stuff.

Puppy Linux now has a trim program that you can use anytime on a SSD.

Get it from here:
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=4907

Your older SSD may need to run this every few weeks, not sure what it has for an internal controller, load leveling ability.

SSD's now have internal controllers, that auto load level, and basically do what trim did.