UPupBB needs "forcepae" to boot in a Dell 8600 laptop

[cobaka]

Woof to all!

I am installing uPupBB on a DELL 8600 laptop.
The CPU is Pentium P4 M (or perhaps P4M). The mobile edition of P4; this CPU lacks the PAE bit.
Without this extension line the Busy Beaver Pup will not load, but on a different 8600 (I have two) I can 'force' the PAE line using the instruction --forcepae in (I think) the bootloader.
BUT (but, but, but ...) I can't remember the name of the file for this instruction.
Also, I know that with some thumb-drives I can intervene in the booting process by tapping 'TAB' and then --forcepae.
Without that the booting process fails, reporting inappropriate CPU type.

help!

NEXT
Can anyone point me to pages/info where I can find a synopsis of booting, boot-loaders and the PUPMODE parameters?
I found a little, but I'm certain more exist.

Cobaka

[bigpup]

What drive is it installed on?
Frugal or full install?
Did you use an installer program?
Which one?
Have any idea what boot loader is being used?
Answers to above questions may tell us.

The boot loader files are usually installed on the first partition (if more than one partition on drive).

Could be one of these files used for the boot menu config.
syslinux.cfg
grub.cfg
menu.lst

Open the file in a text editor.
Find the entry used for normal booting.
It will have a kernel line or a Linux line in the entry. (depending on the config file being used)
--forcepae goes at the end of that line.

[cobaka]

@bigpup

Pls wait. Collecting reliable info to your Q

cobaka

[bigpup]

Can anyone point me to pages/info where I can find a synopsis of booting, boot-loaders and the PUPMODE parameters?

Maybe one day someone will do that.
Information is kind of scattered around.
The wiki is about the best, one single place, to look.

This is all the common Puppy boot command options:
http://wikka.puppylinux.com/BootParametersPuppy

These are used, in some form, in about all Puppy versions.
About all you ever need to know about.
They are used in the boot loader config file, boot menu entry, used to boot Puppy.
Example:

Code: Select all

title Puppy bionicpup64 8.0 (sdb6/bionicpup6480uefi)
  find --set-root uuid () 6b517a5d-03c6-4635-96c5-659b29518c84
  kernel /bionicpup6480uefi/vmlinuz  pdrv=6b517a5d-03c6-4635-96c5-659b29518c84  psubdir=/bionicpup6480uefi pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
  initrd /bionicpup6480uefi/initrd.gz

Any other ones (like --forcepae) is kind of dependent on Puppy version and the computer hardware.
That will only work on specific processors.
You would not need that on a Puppy version that is nopae.

Puppy does things the Puppy way,
So, not a good idea to try and use, common Linux added boot commands, unless that is all that will work.
Best to find them on the internet, as way to cure a very specific problem, when a normal fix, cannot be found, by changing a setting in Puppy.

[cobaka]

@BigPup

Sorry Bigpup, I forgot to give the req'd info.
Must be dreaming (or summat, as some say)

You ask
What drive is it installed on? I reply USB drive - unmounted all drives. Only sdb connected now
Frugal or full install? Furgal (I hope)
Installer program? Slack 6.3 OS >> menu >> setup >> puppy installer >> F2FS usb installer.
I booted from CD (dead cold boot). No pupsave.

Have any idea what boot loader is being used?

-------------
The info below comes from PupSys Info and only applies to the Puppy used to install the BusyBeaver.
Boot File System: iso9660

PUPMODE=5
PUPSFS=sda2,ext3,/puppy_slacko_6.3.2.sfs
PUPSAVE=

------------- ^ I don't think this is relevant ^

About Bootloader: I don't know, but on booting I see a menu with 3 items available.
These are (1) uPupBB 19.something (2) Windows (3) Hard drive.
The only one that will work for me is (1). Windows == nil.
I don't think I have anything bootable on the rotating disk. Confirm. Nothing.

On sdb1 I found: extlinux.conf
I saw this and added -- forcepae BUT! here I have a space between the dashes and in the 'conf' file I don't. I will add the space and see if that solves the problem.

Code: Select all

LABEL upupbb
MENU LABEL  upupbb 19.03
KERNEL /upupbb_19.03/vmlinuz  --forcepae  
APPEND initrd=/upupbb_19.03/initrd.gz pmedia=usbflash psavemark=2

MENU SEPARATOR


LABEL windows
MENU LABEL Windows
COM32 chain.c32
APPEND hd1 1 swap

MENU SEPARATOR

LABEL hd
MENU LABEL Boot from 1st HD
localboot -1

Need help to identify the type of bootloader. Suggestions?
You can be as tough as you like. I won't be offended.
i hope to learn something.

cobaka
PS adding space bet. dash and forcepae now

[bigpup]

All you need to know about pupmodes is explained here:
How Puppy works:
http://bkhome.org/archive/puppylinux/de ... works.html

[Clarity]

The link @bigphil offers is a very good one.

And his comment about boot-time info are kept in logs, scattered.

There may come a time when a document for PUPs are produced which shares the "primary" logfile locations and some examples of how to interpret them.

Correspondingly, a companion document to the link provided that shares examples of boot parms and examples of the various ways it can be zero'd in to improve boot handling. Specifically those that reference the boot devices, those that reference when-wehre the save-files may be when moved, and some examples of how to overcome the missing sfs that occur from time to time with various PUPs on certain machines.

I know that this info is scattered across the forum. So some way of collecting them could be created to make it easy for these 2 types of info to be easily found.

Thanks for bringing this important info to light, here, in this thread.

[bigpup]

on booting I see a menu with 3 items available.
These are (1) uPupBB 19.something (2) Windows (3) Hard drive.

I assume that is after you choose the USB as boot device.
uPupBB 19.something is the entry to choose after we get --forcepae in the correct location in the menu entry config.



extlinux is probably the boot loader.

In the extlinux.conf menu entry.

MENU LABEL upupbb 19.03
KERNEL /upupbb_19.03/vmlinuz --forcepae
APPEND initrd=/upupbb_19.03/initrd.gz pmedia=usbflash psavemark=2

Try putting the --forcepae at the end of the append line. Well remove the --forcepae from the kernel line.
make sure to have a space in front of --forcepae.

Notice all the added command options are on the append line.
Save change and reboot.

[cobaka]

Vital Info fr. cobaka.
Forgot. Must be absent minded.
Also: I think this is a frugal installation - not a furgal installation. (geez!)

[bigpup]

Looking at that last image.
extlinux is the boot loader.
so you edit the extlinux.conf file

[cobaka]

@bigpup

Progress! Pls wait

[bigpup]

Waiting!

I have to go.
Time to go to bed, here!
.
.

funny-animals.jpg (83.01 KiB) Viewed 749 times

[cobaka]

OK. Sleep well.

The OS is booting to the command line.
I do not mean that X fails to load. I mean that text messages appear and the system reports "can't go further".

After that the boot process reports 'strange things' about not finding SR0.
Next the OS asks me to nominate a drive/folder to save an error report.

The implication is that I have 'vestigal' trash lying around the file-system.

SO .. having reported this I will clear up 'trash' and press the re-boot process.

Thanks for your help

[greengeek]

After that the boot process reports 'strange things' about not finding SR0.
Next the OS asks me to nominate a drive/folder to save an error report.
The implication is that I have 'vestigal' trash lying around the file-system.

It will help if you can report a bit more of the exact error message you are getting (even if it is quite long...).
(Or maybe take a photo of the error message if possible)

If the booter is asking you for a drive number where the error log can be saved then please try to do that so that it can save the log and then you can access it later. (but write down the whole error message too...)

Some recent 32bit pups have initrd.gz issues that prevent reliable booting from usb. Your error message may help identify if this is your issue or not.

[peebee]

I don't see initrd.gz or vmlinuz in your frugal install directory? They MUST be there as well as the .sfs files!

[cobaka]

@peebee @greengeek @bigpup

Good news & Bad News: First, the good news. I'm writing this from the faithful Dell 8600, using uPupBB32. Now, the bad news. I installed 'the Beaver' using MikeSLR's method based on (1) partition, (2) make a directory (3) copy the OS files into the directory (etc) and (4) install a boot-loader. Now I'm re-editing this because I think my communication was poor. The problem remains - see the next para.

So: more good news: I installed the new pup onto a new thumb-drive so I still have the previous (non-booting) drive intact. So I might learn something. That's the good news. Now the bad news. I still need your help, fellas!

First, I supply the log files written by the OS at the time it stopped booting.
Bigpup's instruction/advice dealt with the -- forcepae instruction. After making the change he suggested, the system loaded enough of the OS to begin booting. So I'm confident that the -- forcepae switch is working. (Otherwise - it would hang and report: improper hardware.

Now: My suspicion is that I have some stray (and interfering) files from previous installations hanging around. I had SULU on here at one stage.

On the topic of recording the error message during the boot process: Yes, a photo (with my camera) is the best way, because the error message is quite long. But first I must post this and (after that) I can reboot.

To bigpup: when I wrote "Pls wait" I mean to say I was editing files and re-booting (and so on). So that it didn't appear as if I abandoned ship during the processes of troubleshooting.

cobaka

In the snapshot you see the names of the files created by the OS at the time it abandoned the booting process. If anyone names a file of interest, I'll post it here. (Or I can post everything)

fault_log_folder.jpg (90.59 KiB) Viewed 719 times

[bigpup]

Now: My suspicion is that I have some stray (and interfering) files from previous installations hanging around. I had SULU on here at one stage.

Could be possible.
However, a freshly made USB install on a clean freshly formatted USB drive should work.

You could just try a different Puppy version.
Xenialpup 7.5 is a 32bit. It is a nopae Puppy.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... 5-uefi.iso

It should not need the --forcepae. It should just boot.

When you are booting from a USB install of Puppy.
Only have that USB plugged into computer. No other USB drives plugged in.

[bigpup]

I don't see initrd.gz or vmlinuz in your frugal install directory? They MUST be there as well as the .sfs files!

Do you understand that this is saying the install is not good. It is missing needed files?

[cobaka]

G'day fellow puppians:

Please give me some time to read, understand and comment on the recent postings.
I need to be certain the info I give comes from the 'not-booting' drive.
BigPup is correct. Good information leads to a reliable diagnosis. Poor or missing info leads to a wild goose-chase.
I'll be back soon.

One more thing. I now have a thumb-drive that boots reliably. I will call this JQ-2.
Now I want to know why the non-booting installation failed. I will called the non-booting thumb JQ-1.
I believe I followed the installation procedure correctly.
So - the original exercise was to solve the problem of -- forcepae and get a working laptop. I have that.
The exercise now is to discover why the installation failed (and what I don't know).
There is another point too, but I will start another thread for that.
Woof!

собака

[cobaka]

folders_JQ-1.jpg (154.72 KiB) Viewed 683 times

GENTS at this stage, I checked this drive; I checked the formatting (and so on). There is something seriously wrong and (unless advised other wise) I will re-partition this drive and begin from scratch. Please advise.

собака

[peebee]

I can't read the screenshot properly - but the initrd.gz and vmlinuz are in the wrong folder - they should be in the same folder as the .sfs files.......... goodness knows how they have become separated in different folders!!!!

Suggest - open the .iso (click on it) and copy all the files afresh manually. Click the .iso again to unmount it.

[bigpup]

Looking at the images of JQ-1
I am not completely sure what kind of install that is.
This could be what F2FS installer made.

I never had good luck using that installer.

I would delete everything and start over.

If JQ-2 is booting Bionicpup32 8.0 (UPupBB) OK.
Use the installer programs in it.
Now the question is which one do you use, there are several.
Each one does a different kind of install.
A live USB install.
A frugal install plus a boot loader.

I do installs to a USB by first using Gparted program to make two partitions on the drive.
First one, a small 300MB, formatted fat32, and flagged boot.
Second one the rest of drive formatted ext 3.
I do a frugal install of the Puppy version on the second partition.
Run Grub4dos Bootloader Config
Select the USB drive as location to install Grub4dos bootloader.
Select search only within this drive.
Change no other settings in the Grub4dos config program.
OK.
OK.
OK.
Done.

When it boots.
The Grub4dos boot menu comes up and I select the normal entry for the Puppy version that is listed.

If I want to put other Puppy versions on the same USB drive.
I repeat the process for the new Puppy version.

Each time you run Grub4dos Config.
It will update the boot loader menu with what is on the drive at that time.
Every Puppy frugal install it finds will be listed in the boot menu.

I have a 64GB USB flash drive with 12 different Puppy versions each in there own frugal installs.
Boot menu lists all of them to select from when booting with this USB drive.

Note to others:
This setup will not work on a normal setup UEFI bios computer.
Grub4dos boot loader is not coded to boot on them.
The same setup will work, but a grub2 boot loader has to be used.

Well Grub4dos Bootloader can boot a UEFI computer.
If in the UEFI setup, secure boot is disabled, legacy boot or CSM is enabled.
Those settings make the UEFI bios work like the old legacy bios that Grub4dos is coded for.

[cobaka]

@bigpup

I followed your advice: I wiped the drive and installed uPupBB32 on it. I used the method described here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=971

So far as I can see, my manual method mostly follows your method. (Thanks for description!)
I used a two-stage process. This way I got a bootable read-write flash-drive not a read-only ISO9660 format drive.

Plus - I boot the Dell without typing -- forcepae. GREAT!

cobaka