Occasional System Crashes on Bionic64: Solved

[bigpup]

I suggest you start a new topic.

Something like:

How do I get these specific programs in a new Puppy version not having to re-install them.

List the specific programs.

Two ideas:

Putting them all in a ydrv.sfs that could be added to a new Puppy version frugal install.
When the frugal install boots.
The ydrv.sfs is loaded, with all in it, layered into the operating file system.

Having each program packaged as a SFS, that could be loaded into any Puppy version by putting it into the load list in SFS-load-on-the-fly.
Keep them in the same /mnt/home location.
Do a fresh new frugal install of a different Puppy version.
One time setup the load list in SFS-load-on-the-fly.

[mikewalsh]

No newer issues so far.

I've also set up a new frugal w/ fossapup for test, Bigpup, but it usually takes a LOT of work to get everything I need the way I use it whenever switching to a new Puppy distro. I JUST made the switch to Bionic from Tahr some months ago, so doing that again won't happen soon unless there's a real need to give up Bionic. I don't like to constantly upgrade -- rather solve problems within a stable version. I use a lot of essential (to me) old software particularly CAD and CNC driver stuff, that more and more gets harder to bring along in upgrades. Still, if Fossapup works out better for some substantial reason, and I can still run my essentials, I may eventually move there.

@vtpup :-

To some extent, you sound like me. I, too, see absolutely no reason to constantly run the very newest, cutting-edge version of everything the instant it appears......though many seem almost obsessive about doing so.

My most stable "daily-drivers" have always been distros at least 3-4 years old, on which any wrinkles have been ironed-out LONG ago. I'm simply not interested in brand-new OSs; I prefer stability & functionality over constant novelty. And TBH, many older Puppies are absolute gems, and well-worth exploring....

Having mastered the basics of setting-up & using a chroot (thanks to watchdog), I'm happy to play-around with older Pups. The chroot will take care of any modern requirements - like browsers, and anything internet-facing - and allow me the freedom to try-out things as the original builder intended....

I'm well aware I'm a very poor excuse for a "geek"..! I prefer to explore the past, rather than constantly looking to the future all the time.....

Mike.

[vtpup]

Bigpup, that sounds do-able for someone who upgrades a lot and has basic needs : browser, email, office suite, and likes to try new stuff and buys a new computer every couple years..

But for me, I find that to do the stuff I want with the equipment I have, I have already spent many hours finding workarounds in those programs, altering many deep settings (eg. in about:config in seamonkey), and yes delving into Wine big time with obscure CAD and CAM stuff. I find that upgrading often breaks the things I use because the latest dependencies or kernel modules no longer work or support old code or devices. Then I get sidetracked into altering kernels, etc. and end up with a custom puppy (when what I wanted was a stock version) with its own potential problems.

Likewise Wine itself stops supporting older programs, or older programs themselves can't be upgraded, or are no longer even offered, or have features removed or support only newer hardware, etc, etc. Upgrading in my experience especially lately is a multi-forked rabbit hole of troubleshooting and issue solving that a homemade custom sfs can't address.

The greatest force for unwanted upgrades is the commercial obsoleting of internet protocols and standards, overloading of commercial javascripts on every website, and consequential increase in wasteful bandwidth. These changes enforce demands for new upgraded browsers, which in turn require new dependencies, and those dependencies require new support devices kernels and faster processors and memory. And finally new OS versions.

Interestingly, the technical quality of what does eventually get through as images, video, and text on the Net is not improved commensurate with the massively increased need for resources. Most of the additional computing power is wasted on creating hidden user commercial dependency and targeting.

Anyway, I upgrade when I absolutely have to, not because I want to run the latest and greatest version of Puppy. I don't expect improvements any more in any technical capability for PCs -- computers and programs reached the level of my most esoteric needs probably about 5 years ago. I'm just trying to preserve those capabilities now, when supposed improvements actually threaten to erode them as a result of unrestricted net commercialization.

Let me just add, sure I do try out new pup distros, out of curiosity, and wanting to keep in touch with what our community is doing. But that's different than switching my daily work version.

[bigpup]

Someone said, I think it was a wise man or person.

You know your situation better than we do!

Could just do a frugal install of the latest version of Puppy, having the latest version of whatever web browser, you like to use.
Mainly so, the Puppy version has the dependency stuff, the latest web browser needs to run.
Boot it only when you want to browse the internet

Bad thing is, now even what modern features, the hardware has, affects how well web pages will display and to navigate around on.

Keep the other older, configured, setup, and working Puppy version frugal install, to boot, when you do everything else.

That is basically what I do for playing Windows based games.
I boot Windows 10 to play the games.

I boot a version of Puppy Linux to do anything else.

[vtpup]

Thanks Mike, Bigpup, we're probably all on the same page. Upgrades were fun back in early 4.0 days because you looked forward to increased capabilities with every release, and could develop flavors of your own. Now I look forward to stability in a Puppy OS for what we have achieved since then. Much of what Puppy innovated over the years has been adopted by other OS's, like Chrome, though (my own prejudice) never as well.

I again want to mention, I have not had any crashes since my original post (has it been more than 2 weeks?) solidly on Bionic64. I will definitely report if another ever happens.

I am up to Seamonkey 2.53.13 with no problems there so far. So the browser side of things is working for me. I'm thinking that the occasional cfrash problem might have been resolved (if it is) by unloading the Zoom sfs. It had an alternate version of Qt5Core, if you recall.

Fingers crossed, things seem stable, and I haven't run across any old program requirement that hasn't run under Bionic64 and its 32 bit compat sfs so far. I haven't tried every obscure thing I use yet, might take a month or two to get to them, but I'm hopeful that I've got a stable work system right now after the major move from Tahr32.

[mikewalsh]

.....or, as I pointed out above, you CAN have the best of both worlds - simultaneously - without the need to re-boot. This is exactly what I do with Barry's old Quirky64 April 7.0.1. I run a Fossapup chroot from a remote partition, switching into this for browsers and certain modern apps I use where Quirky is too old for them without a LOT of modification.

For everything else, I run 'em in Quirky natively. This way, there's no need to keep re-booting.

It's not for everybody, it's true. It amounts to running two Puppies at the same time. Plentiful resources are needed to pull it off successfully.....but it's such a time-saver, and I have nothing but praise for @watchdog , who showed us the correct way to do it, while still keeping it as easy as possible.

Mike.

[Dry Falls]

Hi Mike. I thought I had the link on my harddrive. Is this the link to the chroot discussion:
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 703#p33971?

[mikewalsh]

@Dry Falls :-

TBH, I'd completely forgot t'other Mike had produced that thread.

What started it all off - for ME, anyway - was the thread about @darry19662018 's updated Puppy 4.3.11 (the "Phoenix"). That thing was FUN! Specifically, however, this post from watchdog:-

https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtop ... 0#p1034400

.....all over on the old Forum, concerning the chrooted Pale Moon browser.

-----------------------------------------------------

I tried out watchdog's SFS with the Precise chroot, and more importantly, dissected it to have a look at how he'd done it. Later in the thread:-

https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtop ... 4#p1035264

.....I'd built an SFS containing a Tahrpup chroot with v69 of SRWare's Iron browser integrated into it. This was before I'd really got into producing the portable apps.

I think we were all pretty gobsmacked - especially me! - by getting such a modern, Chromium 'clone' functioning with such an elderly Puppy (despite its impeccable vintage)..... After that, there was no looking back. I just took the idea and ran with it. And the rest, as they say, is history.

Mike.

[vtpup]

Just a follow up. It has been a month and no more crashes. The only changes were removing Zoom, and upgrading Seamonkey. My guess is Zoom's slightly different QT5 version was the most likely cause, based on others' comments earlier in the thread re. alternative QT5 versions, and the fact that the log messages showed the last crash was QT5 related.

I'm going to mark this one as SOLVED for now, since the title might cause concern otherwise. I'll re-open if the problem ever returns.

[mikewalsh]

Just a follow up. It has been a month and no more crashes. The only changes were removing Zoom, and upgrading Seamonkey. My guess is Zoom's slightly different QT5 version was the most likely cause, based on others' comments earlier in the thread re. alternative QT5 versions, and the fact that the log messages showed the last crash was QT5 related.

I'm going to mark this one as SOLVED for now, since the title might cause concern otherwise. I'll re-open if the problem ever returns.

@vtpup :-

Excellent! Good to hear. Glad ya got that sorted, anyway; most issues are, more often than not, caused by something small that wouldn't normally occur to you until investigated further.

That's been the case for me more times than I could shake a stick at it.....

Mike.

[mikeslr]

Following up on MikeWalsh's suggestion of using the Chroot technique, see my post here, viewtopic.php?t=3721 about how to build your own chrooted Puppy. That recipe would not have been possible had it not been for the work watchdog and MikeWalsh did to develope the technique.

Two things to note: my interest was initially stimulated by a desire to employ wine without allowing it full access to my operating system and by that everything on my computer. The second thing is that to accomplish the first objective one has to remaster a functioning puppy having everything in it that you will want because, once constituting the chroot it is 'written in stone'. It applications can be used, and re-configured --as changes in configurations and settings will be in RAM-- but those changes can not be Saved.

AFAIK, any Puppy can serve as 'the chroot'. You boot into it, install any applications including wine. An SFS or portable can not be used; except that a portable which does not just start an AppImage can be located in /opt; and SFSes can be Right-Clicked and installed as if they were pets. The 'Chroot' does not have the ability to mount either SFSes or AppImages. Wine-portable can't be used but any of version2013's wine pets can. Wine-portable is a device for mounting it's included SFS.
Once you've installed everything you want into that Puppy and configured its applications you can use amethyst's nicOS-Utitlity-Suite's, viewtopic.php?t=1694 remaster to create a new YOURPUPPY_VERSION_NUMBER.SFS. This is only part which will become a component in the Chroot. The operating system into which the Chroot is SFS-Loaded supplies the initrd, vmlinuz, zdrv.sfs and any fdrv.sfs.

AFAIK, once the Chroot is loaded it can not be unloaded without rebooting. [If SFS-loaded from a partition not that on which your OS boots from it can not access that partition]. Also, AFAICT, as its contents are cached in RAM until put to use, it doesn't diminish usable RAM by much. However, as it can not access any storage medium on its own your work product will be in RAM until, employing the file-manger of your OS, you move it elsewhere.