The heat is on

[one]

The high temperatures in Europe show just how vulnerable our IT infrastructure basically is. Cloud services and servers hosted by Google and Oracle in the UK have gone offline due to cooling issues as the country experiences a record-breaking heat wave.

https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/19/ ... cle_cloud/

peace

[8Geee]

Mid 90'sF (35C) expected here in CT USA. Central USA 110F (43C). I see France to Spain has many fires. A lot of European homes/villas don't have AC (much like Seattle WA here).

8Geee

[ally]

here in blighty we just bitch and moan...

[Clarity]

Our technical and scientific community have been trying for 6 decades to get our leaders to do something. But the grip of money has got them to look the other way.

Will our technical and scientific accumulated data be enough to save us with a common planetary target-commitment to solutions?

[8Geee]

Its not really a gov't problem, its big business... cheapest bang for the $ strategy. So fossil fuels have been in use for over 125 years. Yet there has always been wind and solar, that if captured would at least provide equal power requirements at the cost of construction and land area.

[Grey]

Its not really a gov't problem, its big business... cheapest bang for the $ strategy. So fossil fuels have been in use for over 125 years. Yet there has always been wind and solar, that if captured would at least provide equal power requirements at the cost of construction and land area.

Yes, the wind and the sun have been around for a long time. But "reliable and cheap" solar panels, wind turbines and related equipment have appeared (?!) recently. In addition, these are "capricious" methods and are not suitable as universal for all regions.

Yes, solar panels have been on Soviet satellites for a long time. But there were other conditions, other power levels and the price of the issue.

I get energy from the Rostov nuclear power plant (the English Wikipedia still uses an old photo on which the second of the four blocks is being built). I sometimes use solar panels to charge several devices, but I don't consider it seriously yet (although there is a lot of sun in my region ).

I think we are talking about a real stable supply of energy on a large scale. If we are talking about trying to prove to someone that we love nature and are very kind within the same village where rich and famous people live, then this is another question.

[misko_2083]

Its not really a gov't problem, its big business... cheapest bang for the $ strategy. So fossil fuels have been in use for over 125 years. Yet there has always been wind and solar, that if captured would at least provide equal power requirements at the cost of construction and land area.

Yes, the wind and the sun have been around for a long time. But "reliable and cheap" solar panels, wind turbines and related equipment have appeared (?!) recently. In addition, these are "capricious" methods and are not suitable as universal for all regions.

Yes, solar panels have been on Soviet satellites for a long time. But there were other conditions, other power levels and the price of the issue.

I get energy from the Rostov nuclear power plant (the English Wikipedia still uses an old photo on which the second of the four blocks is being built). I sometimes use solar panels to charge several devices, but I don't consider it seriously yet (although there is a lot of sun in my region ).

I think we are talking about a real stable supply of energy on a large scale.

Solar panels are 3.000€ for 3 kW output. Plus you need batteries.
There was some news that the government will pay half of the sum but we will see.
The prices of everything jumped. I pay double for bread in comparation with prices in January.
Plus you never know when the war will break out.
Albanians are putting the pressure on Serbs they didn't yet expelled from Kosovo and Methohia.
But the American overlords in Washington decided to postpone in until September.
I joked with you that I'd hate being in the trenches at this temperatures. Americans are probably thinking the same thing.
Temps measured 40°c in a shade in the forest at 2 meter height.
If they'd measure it where people actually live it would be higher.
Those solar panels in space are thin as a paper.
I think those are cheaper but there is no wind in space.
Only micro meteors make holes in those panels.

If we are talking about trying to prove to someone that we love nature and are very kind within the same village where rich and famous people live, then this is another question.

It's natural progression of thoughts that appears with more money.

Nationalism is a topic for those with a monthly income of up to 300 euros.
They are served that story. When the salary exceeds 500 euros, then the conversation about the wardrobe and cafes begins.
When it exceeds 1,000, then the top topic is healthy food, summer and winter holidays, and when it rises to more than 3,000, everyone stops bullshitting.
People then talk about the weather forecast and love.

[rockedge]

On the street I live on, there are now on about half the house's roofs solar panels. My brother's house out on the front range of the Rocky Mountains in Colorado has had solar panels on the roof for about 10 years now. Just upgraded to new panels which is expensive. But he can air condition and heat with all the lights on in the entire house with all the electronics on at the same time and his energy costs are zero.

Originally Colorado and the US government would subsidize the installation costs and my brother got a free ride back then, but that is not the case at this time. Now though the electric company will install panels that one leases for almost free. You do not own these and the excess power generated goes back into the power grid that one gets a little bit of money for, but one still has a monthly invoice to pay to the electric company.

[bigpup]

Using a solar panel at night.
.
.

[misko_2083]

Now though the electric company will install panels that one leases for almost free. You do not own these and the excess power generated goes back into the power grid that one gets a little bit of money for, but one still has a monthly invoice to pay to the electric company.

"You will own nothing and be happy about it." World Economic Forum (billionaire's lobbing organization)

We will not own the Sunlight as well.
@bigpup you'll have to pay CO2 emissions for those candles.

[bigpup]

Just upgraded to new panels which is expensive. But he can air condition and heat with all the lights on in the entire house with all the electronics on at the same time and his energy costs are zero.

No it is not!
What did the solar panels cost?
That is his energy cost!

Where I live it takes about 5 years to break even, before you can say the energy is free.

I am not sure I will live another 5 years!

Talk about heat.

How much heat is radiating off all those solar panels?

Yes, solar panels are hot to the touch. Generally speaking, solar panels are 36 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than the ambient external air ...

[rockedge]

@bigpup The first generation of panels were bought with subsidies. Ran these a long time in an area that averages 310 days of sunshine a year. My brother can afford the new panels because #1 he makes a lot of money and #2 a tax break he received for ripping out the fancy grass lawn and flowerbeds and shrubbery that are NOT native to the front range and replaced it all with native grasses and plants resulting in the removal of the entire water irrigation system.

He no longer needs to water the property in that arid high altitude Rocky mountains foothill area. Water rights around there are a BIG deal. You can't collect rainwater on purpose...it's illegal. Someone else owns that water. Got a kiddie pool sitting out there in the rain? You're a felon if you use that water and don't dump it out on the ground.

Rain barrels are a big no. The house has a very modern battery room, like a submarine.

[misko_2083]

Water rights around there are a BIG deal. You can't collect rainwater on purpose...it's illegal. Someone else owns that water. Got a kiddie pool sitting out there in the rain? You're a felon if you use that water and don't dump it out on the ground.

What a tyranny in a land of the free.

[Grey]

@bigpup @rockedge @misko_2083
Mmmm... I'm not rich, not at all. But I'm the only one among the neighbors who didn't put water meters on. Neither for hot water, nor for cold. Yes, I pay more than the others. But they even take a shower quickly and economically. I, on the contrary, cool down every day in the bath, which is filled with about 200 liters of water (53 US gallons). But I don't smoke or drink alcohol, this is my savings.

[misko_2083]

@bigpup @rockedge @misko_2083
Mmmm... I'm not rich, not at all. But I'm the only one among the neighbors who didn't put water meters on. Neither for hot water, nor for cold. Yes, I pay more than the others. But they even take a shower quickly and economically. I, on the contrary, cool down every day in the bath, which is filled with about 200 liters of water (53 US gallons). But I don't smoke or drink alcohol, this is my savings.

Do you add ice?
Ah the legacy of communism when everyone split the bill equally no matter how much in spent individually.
Wait a minute, why would there be a separate meter for the hot water?
Is the hot water in a common boiler for everyone in the building?

Do people give you bottles as gifts even though you are not drinking?
Happens to me all the time, I have a big collection here unopened.

What's good is that manufacturer gives a 20 year warranty for solar panels.

As for energy, it would be awesome if we could make it out of nothing.
But energy has to be used to make a solar panel.
And solar panels are inefficient, only 25% of light is transferred to electricity.
Some small amount of light is reflected and the rest is absorbed as heat.
I think the light has to hit the atoms at specific angle to rip off the electron.
That doesn't happen very often.
Also the efficiency of the panels goes further down after a couple of decades of use.

On a larger scale it's more efficient to use the heat and power turbines with it.
Big mirrors that focus light to a single point and melt salt.
That melted salt is storing energy for a long time and is used to heat the systems for creating electrical current.
I think the mirrors are 80-85% efficient when reflecting Sunlight.
So there is some heat in the mirrors too.

[Grey]

Do you add ice?
Ah the legacy of communism when everyone split the bill equally no matter how much in spent individually.
Wait a minute, why would there be a separate meter for the hot water?

No, just sea salt

Centralized hot water supply system. I don't heat the water myself. Another "legacy of communism"

[misko_2083]

Do you add ice?
Ah the legacy of communism when everyone split the bill equally no matter how much in spent individually.
Wait a minute, why would there be a separate meter for the hot water?

No, just sea salt

To match the chemical composition of 200 liters of sea water you'd need to add 7 kg of sea salt.
But for the power of imagination: you add a grain of salt and you are already in the sea. As we say (in rhyme) - Машта може свашта.

[ozsouth]

@rockedge wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:33 pm

Water rights around there are a BIG deal. You can't collect rainwater on purpose...it's illegal. Someone else owns that water. Got a kiddie pool sitting out there in the rain? You're a felon if you use that water and don't dump it out on the ground.

Wow! Here in Southern Oz, the council MADE my builder install a 1000 litre tank to run rainwater off my guttering for flushing, to get a building permit 10 years ago.

[rockedge]

@ozsouth My house in Germany also had a 9 cubic meter underground rain collection tank. Supplied all the water for toilets, garden and basically all the non-potable water for the house and property. Rain was collected by the house and garage roofs with the rain gutters all leading to the tank. I had a osmosis filter system that handled the water when selected to do so. Worked really well and in Hamburg that tank never went dry the entire time I had that house.

[Grey]

But for the power of imagination:

That's the whole point. You didn't think it was for the smoothness and beauty of my skin, did you ? This is for the moral and psychological effect of "Ah, sea salt!"

By the way, do you know how things are in Montenegro? As before: "if you swim in this place of the sea, you will live 150 years!" Or already 200?

[misko_2083]

But for the power of imagination:

You didn't think it was for the smoothness and beauty of my skin, did you ? This is for the moral and psychological effect of "Ah, sea salt!"

No, I got inside your mind remotely and read your thoughts.

Of course, a little salt in that volume of water is insignificant so it must be a ritual for psychological purpose. On the other hand if you lived in Eastern Serbia or Romania where Vlahs live then the other option would be some magical ritual. The Vlah magic. But I don't have an impression you are a witch so far.

By the way, do you know how things are in Montenegro? As before: "if you swim in this place of the sea, you will live 150 years!" Or already 200?

Montenegro, I have no idea about their tourist campaigns. The last time I visited was over 30 years ago when I was a small child. I have no relatives or friends there. They still have the same president for over 30 years. He used to smuggle cigarettes back in 90's.

[Grey]

The other day there was news that the source of the Thames had dried up. Well, here, as usual, someone sympathized with the Londoners, and someone said "it serves them right".

However, climatologists say that there is no need to rejoice. Because this is a sign that such phenomena will occur in the south of Russia. And this is just my region.

As a child (and now), I really disliked such a landscape:

zasuha.jpg (158.59 KiB) Viewed 1192 times

[misko_2083]

One day the water will be more expensive than the gold.
It's no wonder why Elon Musk wants to buy our water.
I hear William (Bill) Gates is buying a lot of land in the US.
That means the food prices will skyrocket.
The greedy ones always know where to get the most money.

[mikewalsh]

@bigpup The first generation of panels were bought with subsidies. Ran these a long time in an area that averages 310 days of sunshine a year. My brother can afford the new panels because #1 he makes a lot of money and #2 a tax break he received for ripping out the fancy grass lawn and flowerbeds and shrubbery that are NOT native to the front range and replaced it all with native grasses and plants resulting in the removal of the entire water irrigation system.

He no longer needs to water the property in that arid high altitude Rocky mountains foothill area. Water rights around there are a BIG deal. You can't collect rainwater on purpose...it's illegal. Someone else owns that water. Got a kiddie pool sitting out there in the rain? You're a felon if you use that water and don't dump it out on the ground.

Rain barrels are a big no. The house has a very modern battery room, like a submarine.

@rockedge :-

So.......what you're saying is that if you have a rain barrel, then as far as the locals are concerned, you're committing an offence against the entire community by collecting a bit of water - WHEN it rains - that by rights should be allowed to accumulate in the water table instead?

In-ter-esting..... So, how does someone manage to "own" what falls out of the sky? 'Cos however you look at it, it boils down to nowt more than legal 'trickery'.....and because we're all so law-abiding, we naturally accept AS LAW whatever the lawyers decide to write on a piece of paper and sign in front of X number of witnesses.

Strange how the 'laws' that govern everybody are always decided by just a select few, ain't it?

Mike.

[rockedge]

@mikewalsh yes in a general sense. The rules are becoming less restrictive presently.
Here is a link to information that is specific to Colorado -> https://extension.colostate.edu/topic-a ... ado-6-707/

Here in Connecticut we do not have such rules and water rights.

[mikewalsh]

@rockedge :-

I got curious enough about this to do a bit of further research into Colorado "water rights".

Seems a 'water rights holder' has the inalienable right - enshrined in law - to set up devices/collection systems for water for his use on your land which you, as the owner of that land, have no right to touch.....and can in fact be taken to court for doing so!

Seems a bit one-sided to me.

What also seems very one-sided is the way in which the original Colorado River Compact was set up. California, it seems, has the legal right to almost 1500 billion gallons of the Colorado River's annual total flow, despite the fact that, due to geography and the way the weather systems work in that part of the Pacific coast, the state itself barely contributes a single drop TO that annual total.

This apparently constitutes almost 40% of that total. The remaining six out of seven states in the original Compact have, therefore, to squabble over the remaining 60% between themselves!

From what I understand, that original Compact was set-up, not via any democratic process to ensure that all got a fair share of what was available, but simply through "first come, first served".....and the Californian legislature just happened to get their "foot in the door" very early on in the process. Naturally enough, the 'early birds' WOULD put in massive claims, regardless of whether they were technically entitled or not.....and the Californian legal bods were doubtless sharp enough to ensure their claim was legally sound, and made sure it could never be challenged at any time in the foreseeable future.

-------------------------------------
I can only go by what I read about or hear about in the media, like so many of us. But from what I can figure out, California seems a very 'greedy' state.....claiming the lion's share of all natural resources anywhere near it, and basically saying "f*ck you" to everybody else. "We want it, so we're going to have it. And we'll make damn sure you, or anyone else, has no rights to claim any of it".

TBH, from our point of view on this side of "the Pond", it often appears that the USA consists of 50 some-odd small, individual nations all constantly fighting amongst themselves for a share of available resources. I thought you guys were supposed to be "united".......instead of which, it often appears that you're anything BUT.

Merely a personal viewpoint..!

Mike.

[wiak]

I thought you guys were supposed to be "united".......instead of which, it often appears that you're anything BUT.

Merely a personal viewpoint..!

Mike.

Being Scottish I won't comment further here

[Grey]

In-ter-esting..... So, how does someone manage to "own" what falls out of the sky?

In the USSR, and now by inheritance in Russia and Ukraine, the Italian children's writer Gianni Rodari was very popular. He wrote very cunning fairy tales, in which criticism of the leadership's policy was hidden. He had a book about Cipollino, based on which there is a Soviet cartoon and a movie.

And there is a moment when Prince Lemon crushes his people with taxes:
Since we introduced the air tax, you have been breathing less. This is outrageous!!! Taxes on precipitation will be introduced next: for simple rain - 100 lire, for heavy rain – 200 lire, for rain with thunder and lightning – 300 lire. Be silent!!!

This is our most famous episode of the book and cartoon.

[tosim]

@mikewalsh TBH, from our point of view on this side of "the Pond", it often appears that the USA consists of 50 some-odd small, individual nations all constantly fighting amongst themselves for a share of available resources. I thought you guys were supposed to be "united".......instead of which, it often appears that you're anything BUT.
I'm on the Western side of "the Pond", and compliment you on your statement. You "hit the nail on the head", very properly.

[mikewalsh]

@tosim :-

As I said, merely an observation. But it is a fact that, the further away one is from a situation/scenario, the more objective it's often possible to be.

"Can't see the wood for the trees" comes to mind...!! (From over 3,000 miles away, TBH, it kinda sticks out like a sore thumb. Or, as we Brits might put it, it's more like a "slap in the face with a wet fish!" It's hard to MISS it...)

Mike.