Multiboot - Puppy/Dog linuxes and Linux Mint

[dcung]

I'd like to add Linux Mint to menu list of items in my 'tinkering' laptop (currently has many frugal installs of puppy/dog linuxes).

Does anyone know if you can install Linux Mint 20.3 frugally? And if so, how?
I'd prefer if I don't need to register at their forum to ask. In addition to doing experimenting myself this last week.
I'm reading/browsing Linux Mint forum too, but have not found satisfactory solution yet.

[dcung]

Just saw this.
Could be interesting read for me.

https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=3360

[rockedge]

you might be interested in the WeeDogIT script. It take distro's and converts them into frugal installs the WeeDog way. I think Mint might be on the weedogable list.

https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=5206

[dcung]

Thanks @rockedge, will take a peek later...

I'm testing grub2config, it seems to pickup some of test OSes that I installed on this spare SSD that I use for this testing.
I'm just trying to gauge how much effort to convert GRUB4DOS menu.lst to this GRUB2 cfg file.
At least, now I know I can install LM and use this grub2config if necessary.
Of the test OSes on the SSD, it picked up XenialPup, 2x LM install, but didn't pick up FossaDog.

Code: Select all

# grub.cfg produced by grub2config 2.0.1
set default=0
set timeout=10
set menu_color_normal=white/blue
set menu_color_highlight=black/yellow

loadfont $prefix/fonts/DejaVuSansMono18.pf2
set gfxmode=auto
insmod all_video
insmod gfxterm
terminal_output gfxterm

# Puppy Linux

menuentry 'Xenialpup64 7.5 (sda4/XenialPup64)'{
  search --no-floppy --set=root --fs-uuid 300b6126-aa14-4216-9e15-af6b673d71aa
  linux /XenialPup64/vmlinuz    psubdir=/XenialPup64 pmedia=ataflash pfix=fsck
  initrd /XenialPup64/initrd.gz
}

menuentry 'Xenialpup64 7.5 (sda4/XenialPup64) RAM mode'{
  search --no-floppy --set=root --fs-uuid 300b6126-aa14-4216-9e15-af6b673d71aa
  linux /XenialPup64/vmlinuz    psubdir=/XenialPup64 pfix=ram
  initrd /XenialPup64/initrd.gz
}

menuentry 'FossaDog (sda4/FossaDog64)'{
  search --no-floppy --set=root --fs-uuid 300b6126-aa14-4216-9e15-af6b673d71aa
  linux /FossaDog64/casper/vmlinuz    psubdir=/FossaDog64 nomagic base_only norootcopy
  initrd /FossaDog64/casper/initrd1.xz
}

# Other Linux

menuentry 'Linux Mint 20.3 Una (sda5/boot)'{
  search --no-floppy --set=root --fs-uuid 01e1ade4-43a9-44b3-8642-e962fc04f372
	configfile /boot/grub/grub.cfg
}

menuentry 'Linux Mint 20.3 Una (sda6/boot)'{
  search --no-floppy --set=root --fs-uuid 9a28a693-2c52-4df0-b80a-455e00a89cf1
	configfile /boot/grub/grub.cfg
}

menuentry 'Windows mbr boot'{
	search --no-floppy --set=root --file  /bootmgr
	chainloader +1
}

if [ $grub_platform = "efi" ] ; then
menuentry 'UEFI Firmware Settings'{
	fwsetup
}
fi

	# custom menu
	if [ -f /custom.cfg ] ;then source /custom.cfg ;fi

[wiak]

I think Mint might be on the weedogable list.

It isn't. Ubuntu official is. Linux Mint could be added, and would work for sure (pretty much identical to WeeDog frugal installl of Ubuntu apart from iso name) - in fact when weedogit was published I said just to ask and an attempt to add any such requests would be made.

[dcung]

It isn't. Ubuntu official is. Linux Mint could be added, and would work for sure (pretty much identical to WeeDog frugal installl of Ubuntu apart from iso name) - in fact when weedogit was published I said just to ask and an attempt to add any such requests would be made.

In that case, could I request it please?
No urgency...just wanting to add it to my 'tinkering list' menu. TIA.

Edit:
Only if it's possible to add the frugal LinuxMint as an item in my current menu.lst (of GRUB4DOS).
(I just started reading WeeDog threads, so have limited understanding yet).
Else, I'd probably in 'similar' situation I'm in now. That is trying to see, how much effort required to convert my current menu.lst into GRUB2CONFIG to be able to have LinuxMint as an additional item.

[wiak]

It isn't. Ubuntu official is. Linux Mint could be added, and would work for sure (pretty much identical to WeeDog frugal installl of Ubuntu apart from iso name) - in fact when weedogit was published I said just to ask and an attempt to add any such requests would be made.

In that case, could I request it please?
No urgency...just wanting to add it to my 'tinkering list' menu. TIA.

Edit:
Only if it's possible to add the frugal LinuxMint as an item in my current menu.lst (of GRUB4DOS).
(I just started reading WeeDog threads, so have limited understanding yet).
Else, I'd probably in 'similar' situation I'm in now. That is trying to see, how much effort required to convert my current menu.lst into GRUB2CONFIG to be able to have LinuxMint as an additional item.

Yes, already was working it immediately after my above post. In test right now (waiting on the upstream iso being fetched, hence the delay in posting new weedogit version).
It will work with either grub4dos menu.lst or grub2 conf, assuming you already have either of these otherwise set up and working. I don't know anything myself about using GRUB2CONFIG

EDIT: Note that the one I'm using is the default Cinnamon version. If you want one of the others (e.g. Mint XFCE) you'd just need to modify the related URL22 in the script (line34) to its download url prior to running weedogit.

[wiak]

WDL_mintCin

WDL Linux Mint Cinnamon added to weedogit.sh build script. Details here: viewtopic.php?p=58705&sid=0c8d2c1470975 ... ddf#p58705

[rcrsn51]

The Bullseye Starter Kit thread has lots of info on this. See the Deblive Multi Installer on page 1 and Booting BigBoy Linuxes from GRUB2 on page 2.

[dcung]

I tested WDL_mintCin/WeeDog script on the Dell D630 laptop (let's call this D630A).
Script ran okay. I kept the output, in case anyone interested - attached below.
Modified menu.lst accordingly. Test run the frugal LinuxMint, it started loading, but no joy, kernel panic.

lm2.jpg (205.83 KiB) Viewed 3113 times

D630A is 'crash & burn'. I put 250GB SSD there in the beginning of tinkering. I thought, maybe it crashed because all this testing/tinkering. I has 6 partitions created by all distro that I was playing with. I have rewritten the MBR back and forth many times using various utils.
I was gonna start fresh from scratch, and look for another smaller SSD (64GB or 128GB) in my other relic PC/laptop collection to use, but too lazy.

I ended up copying the frugal LinuxMint to another D630 (let's call this D630B). My 'established' tinkering laptop. Identical HW specs, except with 128GB SSD. Practically 'single' large ext4 partition (I created 2nd 10GB ext4 partition, just for Fatdog8).
On this D630B, the frugal LinuxMint, booted okay to login screen. But always came back to the login screen when you tried to login (From wiak other thread - Login is user:weedog pw:weedog).
I stopped here, since this D630B is not 'crash & burn' laptop. I'll go back to D630A when I locate a smaller SSD to tinker with later - from scratch.

lm1.jpg (90.78 KiB) Viewed 3113 times

I encountered weird things I couldn't explain/understand, but could not be bothered to troubleshoot. On D630A, I only managed to copy the frugal LinuxMint using XenialPup. Using FossaDog, it copied 'okay', files/subdirs are there. But at D630B, the directory is empty and can not be deleted. The dirs are also empty and can not be deleted when plugged back in to D630A (both from XenialPup & FossaDog). I'll probably format this portable USB disk later. It's not 'crash & burn', but at least I got backup of it somewhere else.

[dcung]

The Bullseye Starter Kit thread has lots of info on this. See the Deblive Multi Installer on page 1 and Booting BigBoy Linuxes from GRUB2 on page 2.

Thanks Bill. Will check out later..

[williams2]

Test run the frugal LinuxMint, it started loading, but no joy, kernel panic

not syncing means that the kernel was not trying to write to anything (like your hard drive) when the kernel panic occurred.

Attempted to kill init! means that it can't find a file that it is looking for. (probably the file init)

Normally, the kernel vmlinuz is executed by the boot loader.
The kernel reads the data in /dev/initrd and creates a file system (the Initial Ram Drive}
Then the kernel tries to find and execute (pass control to) the file init
If the kernel can't find the file init it can't pass control to it.

The kernel has no plan B.
If it can't find the init file, it gives up, and stops executing (the kernel panic.)

[dcung]

I went back to D630A with a scratch 128GB SSD with StretchDog & FossaDog on it. Redo the script with LinuxMint Cinnamon and XFCE isos. Both the resulting frugal booted okay to login screen, but refuse to login. It's not wrong password. If I gave wrong password, it came back with 'invalid password' message.

Using a USB stick with LinuxMint live (same ISO file), on a D630, it will only works selecting 'compatibility mode' option (2nd on their menu). Then you can use their installer to install it to SSD. It works fine, it also recognised and install nvidia driver for the Quadro on the D630. I was not surprised, since FossaDog also install nvidia driver okay too.

I thought the D630 'incompatibility' may have something to do with the frugal issue. I have a Dell Vostro, which does not have that 'compatibility' problem. So, I tried the frugal on it. Same result, the frugal boots okay to login screen and doesn't get pass it.

I managed to take picture of what flashed before it came back to login screen.

[dcung]

Tinkering further...update...

Turned out, I can login the XFCE frugal after several attempts, usually by second or third attempt, you can login. I missed it earlier because I only tried once each reboot, and assume it was same as Cinnamon frugal.
Curious - I waited few minutes after it finished booting, thinking maybe some background process has not finished, that's why first login attempt failed. But strangely, no. It never let me login on first attempt. Second attempt is the 'least'. Timing does not seem to matter.

The Cinnamon frugal though, I can not login even after few minutes trying.

I have no idea what's going on, but thought to update.

[bigpup]

For boot issues.

Go into the computers bios/UEFI setup.

Look for a setting for Quick Boot or fast boot and disable it.
This makes it do a normal boot with a little more time for stuff to complete the boot processes.

Also look for a setting for SATA mode selection and change it from IDE to AHCI.
This can affect how the drive is seen and controlled during the boot process.

If you have used any other Linux operating system installer to setup the drive.
Those things will do whatever they want to on how the drive partitions and formats are done.

It is really better to start with a freshly partitioned and formatted drive and only use Gparted program running in a Puppy Linux version to do it.
Use Puppy programs to do installs.

Do not think just because you did an install it is 100% correct.
You could have a bad download of the operating system ISO or Image file.
The install process did not go completely good 100%.

A fresh new download and install can fix some really strange stuff.

[williams2]

I managed to take picture of what flashed before it came back to login screen

What it is saying, is that it is trying to use the Nvidea nouveau driver, but it is not there.

it will only works selecting 'compatibility mode' option (2nd on their menu).

compatibility mode may be allowing it to use the generic vesa video driver instead of nouveau. Maybe.

it also recognised and install nvidia driver for the Quadro

That is what that screen is telling you. It was trying to use the nvidia driver, but it was not installed.

Also, it is using system D and run levels. This is NOT Puppy.

booted okay to login screen, but refuse to login. It's not wrong password.

Are you sure that there is a password set? For example, Puppy's spot does not have a password set, by default. If you need spot's password, you need to set a password first.

Anyway, I just thought I would tell you that the screenshot says it was trying to use the nouveau driver, but it is not there.

[dcung]

I read The Bullseye Starter Kit thread and ended up experimenting GRUB2 and GPT disk.

I think I will start migrating my tinkering laptop to use it.
I have been using GRUB4DOS and was reluctant to explore 'new' things.
I found with the assistance of deblive-multi-installer-2, it was convenient enough for me to embark on this GRUB2.

In my experiment, I installed few Dogs and Linux Mint 20.3 and it went smooth enough. I 'full' installed LM on a partition (sda5) and chainloading was as easy as

Code: Select all

menuentry "LinuxMint" {
	set root=(hd0,5)
	chainloader +1
}

And booting of ISO files are handy too. Save me from writing to USB stick to try new ISOs.

Thank you all that provided inputs - Wiak, rockedge and Bill especially. Learn few new things along the way
Cheers.

[Clarity]

If you want to try 2 BOOT Managers that boot PUP-DOG ISO files directly...treating them as if they are Frugal, you might consider the 2 methods discussed extensively in the forum; namely Ventoy or SG2D (SuperGRUB2).

Those methods cut down user workload as well as reduce errors associated with hardware (BIOS/UEFI), disk issues (GPT/MSDOS), and format problems (ext2-4/FAT32/NTFS/etc.).

Beware as some of the older membership will object to use of these...but in myself and the use by others, we are enjoying the workload reduction to running PUPs without issues for several years thanks to PUP-DOG developers in this community.

If interested, there is this as a springboard to the processes. There you should find links to either of the 2 methods mentioned, above.

In summary, there is NO installation and NO touching of the local drive. Setup a USB as shown, add ISOs of your choosing, and boot any of them you added. Sessions will be saved at Shutdown as they always are in PUPs/DOGs across the forum.

As you will probably not have any problems with either method, you should post on those forum thread dedicated to use of those methods for member support and guidance.

FYI

[rcrsn51]

@dcung: Excellent.

I have believed for a long time that Grub4Dos was a dead end. But community members looked at the more complicated GRUB2 syntax and dismissed GRUB2 as unnecessary.

The Multi Installer gives Dog and Puppy users the tools for painlessly migrating to GRUB2.

Once you accept GRUB2, other things become possible, like GPT drives and UEFI booting in "native" mode.

[dcung]

If interested, there is this as a springboard to the processes. There you should find links to either of the 2 methods mentioned, above.
FYI

Took a quick glance. Interesting threads. I'll have a better read later. Thank you.

This instance of my 'exploration' was actually set off by my 'desire' to eliminate going back and forth to Windows to use Rufus. For the time being, it seems GRUB2 will somewhat fulfill that.

I've been meaning to explore Ventoy. I'm sure, I'll be asking questions about it when the time comes.

[wiak]

I encountered weird things I couldn't explain/understand, but could not be bothered to troubleshoot. On D630A, I only managed to copy the frugal LinuxMint using XenialPup. Using FossaDog, it copied 'okay', files/subdirs are there. But at D630B, the directory is empty and can not be deleted. The dirs are also empty and can not be deleted when plugged back in to D630A (both from XenialPup & FossaDog). I'll probably format this portable USB disk later. It's not 'crash & burn', but at least I got backup of it somewhere else.

I have tried WDL_mintCin builds on two machines now and works fine with user:weedog PW:weedog for me so I cannot duplicate the issues you have sorry.

But why in that WeeDog.txt are their errors to do with ntfs-3g? You cannot install WDL_mintCin to ntfs partition - as specified on the weedogit thread, the build (by default) requires Linux formatted partition since needs symlinks to work. There are 'tricks' to bypass that need, but they require upper_changes to be located on a Linux formatted partition or simply a read-only (RAM0) system.

Regarding weedog:weedog user/PW that is set up by the weedogit build script which auto edits upper_changes with the required password information. If you were to ever delete upper_changes the system would still boot (assuming not on ntfs) but
password weedog:weedog would no longer work. I can think of no likely reason logging in would not work as long as upper_changes not damaged and the frugal install has been correctly made onto a Linux filesystem directory (ext2 or ext4, for example.

Clearly something is wrong, but I am afraid the information you provide is not enough to see what the issue might be (though your report is good and maybe ntfs is the clue?). In particular, why in one report do you say you get a kernel error on boot, whereas on the other machine you don't? That doesn't make sense to me overall. As williams2 says that message simply suggests the initrd is failing to find /sbin/init on trying to switch_root to the actual underlying main root filesystem. That can mean a few things:

1. you have not correctly replaced the uuid (in the two required menu.lst or grub.cfg places) with the correct uuid of your own system partition where the frugal install is, or
2. the initrd is unable for some reason to see and mount that partition, which could be a module/driver issue (you'd need to check in a successfully booting distro what module/driver was required/used by that disk on your machine), or
3. you are not using Linux partitioned filesystem or the frugal install; again that would mean any symlinks in the Linux Mint root filesystem would not be workng, and /sbin/init is I think a symlink to systemd init in Linux mint.

A full install of Linux Mint to a partition of its own will not have these issues of course (it will be to a Linux formatted partition anyway), but OP was a desire for a frugal installable variant of Linux Mint which WDL_mintCin is for.

I am suspecting 3. (you are using ntfs underneath) is the issue; that could well have mucked up the password login mechanism too (since Linux mint root filesystem may well involve symlinks in that too).

Of course, I do not have your system in front of me to play with, so above are just hints for you to consider, but otherwise just plausible guesses on my part. Naturally if others report any similar boot problems despite UUIDs being correct and Linux filesystem format being used for the frugal install I'll investigate further, but for now I cannot confirm any such problems in my own builds.

[dcung]

But why in that WeeDog.txt are their errors to do with ntfs-3g? ...

... but OP was a desire for a frugal installable variant of Linux Mint which WDL_mintCin is for.

I'm definitely impressed by WDL_mintCin. I wish I have the know how like you do.

I should have done the tests more methodically. Most likely the stuff up was on my part. I will revisit later and report if I do further test. For now, I think I will prioritise migrating to GRUB2 first.

The ntfs error probably has got to do with my external portable USB disk (NTFS formatted) that was plugged in at the time I ran weedog script. I wouldn't be surprised if it's corrupted. I have not looked into it yet. I got sidetracked by few things.

ATM - I'm experimenting with a mini thumb USB drive and reading threads that Clarity pointed out above. I like the portability, so I think I'm going to create one for my toolkit.

[rcrsn51]

I 'full' installed LM on a partition (sda5) and chainloading was as easy as

Code: Select all

menuentry "LinuxMint" {
	set root=(hd0,5)
	chainloader +1
}

You may have already figured this out, but you can "frugal-install" Ubuntu/Mint by using an ISO boot with a persistent storage partition. But I have not looked at this in a while.

[Clarity]

@dcung, for BEST RESULTS INITIALLY, 'please' follow the recommended instructions

1. for folder name for saving your ISO files on your USB

2. for folder name for saving your sessions

This house-keeping becomes apparent immediately after you setup and start booting your ISOs.

[dcung]

You may have already figured this out, but you can "frugal-install" Ubuntu/Mint by using an ISO boot with a persistent storage partition. But I have not looked at this in a while.

Sorry for late reply, Bill. Got few things to do I can not ignore that limit my tinkering time at home.

I know that you can boot direct from ISO files, I did that with Linux Mint already, haven't tried persistence storage yet but. I didn't play with parameters, that I saw on threads discussing GRUB2. Something to play with later.

In my limited experiments, I found that I can 'eliminate' references to uuid safely, provided that the set root substitution was done. Few dogs that I tried, did not complain and seems to function okay. I just find it more pleasant to my eyes with shorter lines w/o uuid. Later, I'm gonna get rid of those commented out lines. Should I need the uuid, they're easy enough to find thru lsblk/blkid command or gparted anyway.

Code: Select all

menuentry "busterdog-ddog on sda2" {
  echo "Booting ..."
#  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 184a8722-e682-437b-bc60-88530113c667
#  linux /Busterdog-ddog/live/vmlinuz1 edd=off noauto from=UUID:184a8722-e682-437b-bc60-88530113c667/Busterdog-ddog changes=UUID:184a8722-e682-437b-bc60-88530113c667/Busterdog-ddog
set root=(hd0,2)
linux /Busterdog-ddog/live/vmlinuz1 edd=off noauto from=/Busterdog-ddog changes=/Busterdog-ddog
initrd /Busterdog-ddog/live/initrd1.xz
}

It just came to my attention, one of my identical D630, behave differently than its 'twin'. Conky shows it's CPU 20C higher on any dogs (same iso) that I used. It's not critical, but it's an itch, I gotta scratch first. I have 4x D630, almost identical, 3x with T8300 (2.4GHz) and 1x with T7500 (2.2GHz). I have had these for years, so I can completely disassemble/reassemble them in minutes. It's off topic, so I won't make an essay here.

Anyway, I'll keep posting my finding/queries related to Multi Boot here when I can. Just don't want you to think that I ignore you.

[rcrsn51]

Here's the issue with removing the UUIDs. If you just use "from=/Busterdog-ddog", the Porteus init has to search through your drives and partitions looking for that folder. If that named folder happens to exist in multiple places, you will have a problem.

By including the UUID, Porteus knows exactly where to look.

[dcung]

Here's the issue with removing the UUIDs. If you just use "from=/Busterdog-ddog", the Porteus init has to search through your drives and partitions looking for that folder. If that named folder happens to exist in multiple places, you will have a problem.

By including the UUID, Porteus knows exactly where to look.

Ok, good to know. I'll keep that in mind.

[Clarity]

If using DebianDOG/Ubuntu/Mint/etc. with either SG2D or Ventoy housing their ISO files, at the ISO's Menu, I interrupt (usually "e" key) and add linux ... changes=/Sessions/somefolder-filename/ to the Linux line to control where to keep persistence (session-saves).

I have posted that I would recommend saving sessions & persistence for 'PUPs-DOGs and any ISO's persistence' in a folder on a partition on your system's drive for obvious reasons.

Hope this is helpful.

[dcung]

...I interrupt (usually "e" key) and add linux ... changes=/Sessions/somefolder-filename/ ...
Hope this is helpful.

Something for future tinkering materials - Thanks Clarity.
ATM I use Ventoy to put few ISOs and substitute few bootable USB sticks, doing 'non-complex' tasks. This would eliminate most of my use of Rufus already.

#
#
#
#

I just realised, there are 3 'Bills' on this thread.

I was using GRUB2 (grub2_2.02+dfsg1-20_amd64.squashfs) that Bill (rcrsn51) referred to in his thread posting, using a StretchDog platform.
I saw there are later version GRUB2 packages in repos. I know there's probably little/no difference functionally.
I assume, I could use eg. Bullseye and install a GRUB2 package (which one) from it's repo, and use Bill's (rcrsn51) Deb-Multi-installer to update my bootloader to later version?

EDIT: I went ahead and answered my own question. Installed/updated to v2.04 from Bullseye repo. Don't know what differences among the grub packages, I picked GRUB-PC for PC BIOS - looked closest to my env.

[dcung]

This thread can be considered 'solved' - in a sense that I created it looking to add LinuxMint 20.3 as an additional item on my multi boot menu.

Now I have 2 ways to do it. After deciding to use GRUB2 bootloader, both 'full install' or 'frugal install (WDL_mintCin)' are acceptable solutions for me. I haven't written report of my experience/findings. Not only too long but also I'm a lazy bugger.

I did also experimenting multiboot on USB. I'll continue using this thread, as it's 'sort of' related.
I have bits/queries that I can put in Ventoy, SG2D, Debian-Live-Bullseye-Starter, or Bullseye-build-script threads (also read those threads on and off too).

I downloaded and tried Clarity's Readymade-ISO, Ventoy-1.0.75, etc...etc...

I'm going to narrow the scope to one of the laptops used that's of my interest most.
SSD from scratch, GPT, sda1 - 500MB boot ext3, sda2 - 51GB ext4, installed GRUB2, stage1, stage2 as per rcrsn51 'recommendation' in 'somewhere'. Put few frugals (sda2) with deb-live-multi-installer-2. All working fine, as far as I can tell.

I created Ventoy-1.0-75 bootable using a 32GB thumb drive.
My interest is to find out, why 'all' Bullseye ISOs do not work. While 'others' work - see screenshot, all with green block -> work.

Focusing on Debian - At first, I noticed that both busterdog & stretchdog isos have initrd.img file, and I did make bullseye isos without it back then.

So, I remake new ISOs. It's still not working.
I was gonna ask in Bullseye-build-script thread, so Fred can do sanity check of my build, whether those warnings matter, attached log.

Code: Select all

Generate initrd.img . . .
W: Possible missing firmware /lib/firmware/tigon/tg3_tso5.bin for module tg3
W: Possible missing firmware /lib/firmware/tigon/tg3_tso.bin for module tg3
W: Possible missing firmware /lib/firmware/tigon/tg3.bin for module tg3
cryptsetup: WARNING: Couldn't determine root device
live-boot: core filesystems devices utils udev blockdev ftpfs dns.
Working files in /var/tmp/mkinitramfs_XREthU, early initramfs in /var/tmp/mkinitramfs-FW_w1ND3S, main initramfs in /var/tmp/mkinitramfs-MAIN_VsfnIP and overlay in /var/tmp/mkinitramfs-OL_2BbO2C
Generating porteus-boot initrd1.xz . . .
Done ! /tmp/initrd1.xz
Cleaning...
Unmounting mount binds in chroot