tahrpup 6.0.5 -- where is the microphone driver?

[doomcur]

I'm thinking of installing tahrpup 6.0.5 on a laptop for the first time, and I want to be sure that I know how to disable the webcam and microphone(s). I've found what appears to be the webcam driver but I can't find the microphone driver.

I don't just want to change settings in ALSA-sound-Wizard or other software or by running a terminal command -- I want to be able to find the executable file and delete it.

Can anyone help?

[mikewalsh]

@doomcur :- Hallo.....and in case nobody else has yet said it, to the kennels!

Whether you're new to Linux or not, there's perhaps some explanation needed here. I notice you're talking in terms of being able to "delete" a driver file; you obviously want to disable the webcam so thoroughly, that it can't possibly function at all.

It really doesn't work like that in Linux, y'know? (I know it works that way in Windoze, but not on this side of the fence). With the exception of certain items like printers or wireless network adapters, absolutely all other drivers are handled by the kernel, which is compiled when the Puppy is built. To "delete" a specific driver, there's one of two ways you can approach it:-

• Either re-compile your kernel, with specific "--flags" NOT to include driver module xyz.so (whatever it might be).....which is a bit of a faff. Or:-

• The better approach might be to figure out which kernel driver module is responsible, then 'blacklist' it.....at boot, that particular module will then be ignored, and your webcam's microphone won't work any more.

Personally, for disabling something I would go for the 'blacklist' approach.

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Are we talking about a built-in webcam, or are we looking at an external USB one? To go any further, we need to isolate the hardware ID of the webcam, so that we then know which command will bring the info up.....it may be

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lsusb

....or it may be

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lspci

.....that's needed.

Over to you....

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(Guys, this is not my strong point, but.....could the OP "delete" the necessary modules by opening up his zdrv (once we know which modules are responsible), deleting those items, then re-building the zdrv again? That way, they would never get loaded, would they?

The OP could 'delete' the modules (if he can find them), but with Puppy running in RAM as it does, and the zdrv being "read-only", they'd simply be back again at next boot, yes? I think that's right; kernel stuff is NOT something I know much about...)

Mike.

[rockedge]

I would go with the "Blacklist" method. I use it on a machine to disable certain USB drivers so I can run a custom driver written in Python to be able to use a CM19a which is a usb transceiver for receiving and sending X10 command messages for remote wireless motion detectors and light/appliance switches.

The usual USB module (ati_remote) needs to blacklisted so it will not load at all at system start. That way the driver written in Python can take control of the CM19a

[doomcur]

Thanks for replies.

So /lib/modules/3.14.54/kernel/drivers/media/usb/stkwebcam/stkwebcam.ko is _not_ a driver?

What is it, then?

Just found this on satan -- whoops, I mean google:
_________________
'What is a .KO file in Linux?

'Loadable kernel modules (. ko files) are object files that are used to extend the kernel of the Linux Distribution. They are used to provide drivers for new hardware like IoT expansion cards that have not been included in the Linux Distribution.'
_________________

Surely somebody must know where to find that microphone driver -- or the 'loadable kernel module' that's 'used to provide' it.

[mikewalsh]

@doomcur :-

Oh, it's a driver module, all right. I just wouldn't like to say it's the one you want.

There are several different 'webcam driver modules' scattered around the kernel, because not all webcams work the same way; there has never been a truly "universal standard" for these things, even in the mainstream Windows world.....it's not JUST a Linux issue.

The nearest attempt there has yet been to a universal webcam standard has been UVC - the USB Video Class.

You could end up, scrapping around inside the kernel, 'deleting' video & cam driver modules left, right & centre. This is not only bad practice, but almost guaranteed to total your system and make it non-functional. This is why it's better to isolate the specific driver and concentrate on that one, and that one ONLY.

-------------------------------------------------------

Do you have a

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/lib/modules/3.14.56/kernel/drivers/media/usb/uvc

.....directory showing? If so, it shows you have a UVC-compliant webcam; 'uvc' only applies to webcams, and with its auto-detect routines, the kernel only ever 'loads' the required modules for whatever hardware it finds in your machine.

I have this, because my own Logitech c920 HD 'Pro' is UVC-compliant; plug'n'play, straight OOTB.

So; again, I ask:-

Is this webcam a built-in one, or is it an external USB one?

(It's a complete waste of your time, deleting modules anyway. Because of the way in which Puppy works, loading the contents of "read-only" files into a virtual file-system in RAM for the current session, after a re-boot those modules will be back again.)

There's 2 ways that I know of to prevent the kernel from loading modules. You blacklist the module.....or you physically remove the hardware. Which will it be?

Mike.

[dogcat]

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Hi doomcur,

Lets identify the webcam, then you can determine the driver from that info.

Open a terminal and type

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lsusb

You should get a listing that looks something like this, the webcam on my laptop is the first one listed.

Screenshot.png (53.01 KiB) Viewed 685 times

My webcam is this one.

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Bus 002 Device 002: ID 064e:9320 Suyin Corp.

Yours may be further down the list and be named differently.

The identifying info for that device is 064e:9320
So I googled that using "Suyin 064e:9320 driver" , I found the following page with my driver info
https://linux-hardware.org/index.php?probe=a9ddeca328

That page shows me

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BUS 	ID / Class 	        Vendor 	         Device 	   type 	   Driver 	 	
USB 	064e:9320 »/ 0e-01-00 	Suyin Corp. 	HP Webcam 	camera 	         uvcvideo 	

My driver is the uvcvideo driver. Now I know what to disable if I was doing that.

All the kernel modules will be listed under /lib/modules/3.14.56/kernel/drivers/ whether they are being used or not. Once you figure out which driver you need to disable then you need to have a method for doing that next step. Lets figure out which one you need to disable first and then these guys can help you disable the driver.

P.S. a piece of black electrical tape over the camera works too.

[dogcat]

Another way to determine hardware and drivers might be easier for you.
In the menu there is a program named Pup-Sysinfo that tells about whats in the box.

That program is in Menu--->System--->Pup-Sysinfo

Using that program, look in the "Devices" top menu, there you can choose what part of the computer interests you.

If you look at PCI Devices it shows all PCI devices and what drivers each PCI device uses (if applicable)

If you look in USB Devices it shows all USB devices and what drivers those devices use (if applicable)

No guarantee you will find a microphone, many times those are integral to the sound card. You may have to disable the whole sound card to turn off the microphone.... but then again it may just have its own microphone driver. Good luck in your endeavor and keep us updated on your progress.

[doomcur]

I'm baffled by the question 'is this a built-in webcam or a usb one?' If I meant a usb one I could disable it simply by unplugging it from the computer. I mean the hypothetical built-in webcam of a hypothetical laptop computer that I may or may not be going to buy.

I only said, 'I'm _thinking_ of installing tahrpup 6.0.5 on a laptop...' I didn't say I'd done it.
_________________

'It's a complete waste of your time, deleting modules anyway...after a re-boot those modules will be back again.'

Not so -- I could add a command to delete it to a script I always run immediately after booting.
_________________

There is a folder at /lib/modules/3.14.54/kernel/drivers/media/usb/uvc (very nearly the same path as the one mentioned) with nothing in it. However, this doesn't mean that I 'have a UVC-compliant webcam'. since this is a desktop computer and I've never owned a webcam in any shape or form.
_________________

As there are 2360 .ko objects in this distro, and a couple of hundred or so with paths containing 'cam', 'mic', 'video', 'sound' or 'audio' (none with 'uvc'), trial and error would probably not be the answer, even if I had the laptop to experiment on.

[xenial]

Seems a rather paranoid post in my humble opinion..
is there any reason why you would wish those to be completely removed as disabling will do just fine.

Also browsers can be configured to notify if a site requires webcam and microphone usage.

[vtpup]

Let's not judge why a person wants to do something, and just assist if possible.

Also the first post notes that the driver wanted is a microphone driver, not the webcam driver. Assuming they are separate, that's the request.

To clarify the distinction drawn, yes there are drivers in Linux but they are handled differently than in Windows. They are either the compiled Linux Kernel or loaded afterward as modules. Modules may be present on disk, but ignored, or blacklisted, or loaded. The Puppy Boot Manager allows you to load or unload or blacklist with a graphic user.interface. Additional modules may be downloaded externally.

You can both blacklist and physically delete a driver module. You do need to know which one. Blacklisting is safer because it is easier to undo, in case of a change of mind, or mistake. Disabling a module either way may also affect some other function you need.

It is difficult to go further in actually disabling the internal microphone on a laptop that you have not installed Puppy Linux on, because you can't provide the requested lsusb command output to allow people to assist in identifying the driver. The question therefore becomes a hypothetical one.

The answer to that is, yes, if you do install Tahr 6.0.5, you will likely be able to identify the microphone driver on a laptop and delete or disable it.

[mikewalsh]

@vtpup :-

I've never been at all certain about this one.

The only laptop I've ever really used is ye anciente Dell. It's got built-in speakers, but it doesn't have a built-in microphone. I believe the Latitudes were the first dell lappies to come with a built-in microphone OOTB.

I'm assuming that a built-in microphone is going to be part of the in-built audio card, so I don't quite see how it can be disabled separately.

With a USB webcam, these have their own built-in microphones, so they're not going to be controlled by the built-in audio card. Whether this means they have their own built-in card, I wouldn't like to say.

My Logitech c920 HD 'Pro' has stereo microphones. However; the Multiple Sound Card wizard doesn't see it. Retrovol doesnt see it; I'm assuming that since this reads from asound.conf, a new stanza would need to be added to asound.conf in order for Retrovol to 'see' it, and to assign a new , separate slider for it..?

Alsamixer sees it just fine. So I use this to set recording/input levels on the c920.

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Similarly, I don't quite see how the kernel assigns a separate driver module for it. If you look in /dev, it does show up as one of the /dev/audio devices - this is the 'old' Linux way of seeing audio devices; still used by XVidCap - though it needs a fair bit of cross-checking with the rest of the /lib/modules directory to determine which one it actually is.

The only module I can think of that actually 'drives' the c920's microphones would be the

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snd_usb_audio

.....one, found at /lib/modules/(kernel version number)/kernel/sound/usb/snd_usb_audio.ko. And this IS only a guess, mind you.

For a microphone that's a part of the inbuilt audio hardware, I guess it would be somewhere in /lib/modules/(kernel version number)/kernel/drivers/???????

Just 'musings' on my part, TBH.

Mike.

[vtpup]

Mike it's impossible to say, about an undisclosed model of a laptop, in the absence a requested console query in an OS that has not been installed on it.

[mikewalsh]

Mike it's impossible to say, about an undisclosed model of a laptop, in the absence a requested console query in an OS that has not been installed on it.

Uh-huh. Yeah, it's all a bit "pie-in-the-sky" ATM, ain't it? There's a limit to the amount of generalisation you CAN apply to it, in the absence of anything more concrete....

Mike.