DebianDog Sid (without systemd) + build system (mklive-sid)

[fredx181]

DebianDog Sid

Update 2024-10-04: New mklive-sid attached below, added LXQT to the DE options, see info here: viewtopic.php?p=132346#p132346

mklive-sid.gz

Update: 2024-10-04 Remove fake .gz and make executable

(72.83 KiB) Downloaded 31 times

Update 2024-07-20: New mklive-sid attached below, see info here: viewtopic.php?p=126447#p126447
Update 2024-06-17: New mklive-sid attached below, see info here: viewtopic.php?p=123253#p123253
edit: fixed online configs (solves error when systemd build chosen) viewtopic.php?p=123843#p123843
Update 2024-01-31: New mklive-sid attached below, see info here: viewtopic.php?p=110674#p110674
Update 2023-10-07: New mklive-sid attached, see info here: viewtopic.php?p=100404#p100404
Update 2023-08-14: New mklive-sid attached, see info here: viewtopic.php?p=96388#p96388
Update 2023-08-12: New mklive-sid attached, small fix, see here: viewtopic.php?p=96131#p96131
Update 2023-02-19: New mklive-sid attached, changes see here: viewtopic.php?p=84299#p84299
Update 2023-02-19: New mklive-sid attached, fixed a mistake (was only (possibly) affecting when boot with systemd chosen at build configuration), and prevents now showing the annoying question about overwriting /etc/rc.local
Update 2022-11-06: ISO updated, download and info: https://github.com/DebianDog/Sid
Update 2022-11-04: new mklive-sid attached, see changes info: viewtopic.php?p=71478#p71478
Update 2022-10-11: new mklive-sid attached, see changes info Here
Update 2022-10-04: new mklive-sid attached, see changes info Here
Update 2021-10-13: new mklive-sid attached, see changes info Here
Update 2021-07-29: new mklive-sid attached, see changes info Here
Update 2021-05-23: new mklive-sid attached, see changes info Here (goes for Sid too)
Update 2021-05-06: New! Sid Build script:

EDIT 2022-10-04: for now, not maintaining appimages anymore:
Info and download Appimages here: https://debiandog.github.io/MakeLive/Re ... d-sid.html

Updated 2020-11-25, Changes and fixes: viewtopic.php?p=5509#p5509
Sid (also named "unstable", it may sound a bit scary, a better name IMO would be "less stable than 'stable'") is a so called rolling release, which means in practice that it includes the latest software versions and is constantly updated (standard Debian repos, see below for about static "no updates").
This is for who prefers the latest software and is not afraid of fixing small problems (there might be sometimes, after a "apt upgrade")

In fact, because of the (almost) daily updates it's not very suitable for a live system.
Therefore DebianDog Sid has the option to choose between:

• Static repository, default (from snapshot.debian.org). Using this repository there are no updates available, because it's fixed at a date
  This is recommended to keep the save storage as small as possible

• Dynamic, standard Debian Sid repository
  Using this repository there are daily updates available
  Installing packages usually takes more space than when using 'Static'"

2022-11-06: ISO updated
See more info, download here: https://github.com/DebianDog/Sid/blob/m ... o-20201125 and at Post #3, info about repository options

Screenshots:

Openbox with tint2 panels:

Openbox with PcmanFM and lxpanel:

Fred

[fredx181]

Changes and fixes done for DebianDog-Sid-full-20201124-overlay ISO:
- Porteus-boot method now using overlay instead of aufs Overlay replacing aufs
- Kernel 5.9.0-3
- Earlier version had a ugly workaround for pcmanfm:
to show the drive icons in pcmanfm (by use of "pup-volume-monitor"), a workaround is made, script /usr/local/bin/pcmanfm points to /usr/bin/pcmanfm and (required) gio libs in /usr/local/gio
- Fixed now by modifying pup-volume-monitor package, no "ugly" workaround anymore.
- All packages upgraded (apt upgrade)
- Some other small changes, e.g. gtk-youtube-viewer is gtk3 based now
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Changes and fixes done for DebianDog-Sid-full-20201125-overlay ISO:
- Fixed the "Always Fresh" entry (that previously failed to boot).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2022-07-24: Two major problems fixed, see viewtopic.php?p=62665#p62665

2022-11-06: ISO updated, download and info: https://github.com/DebianDog/Sid

[fredx181]

Repository options:

Run Menu > Repository configuration to set to "standard" or "static" (default) (or update static to recent date with "Update" button).

One way to handle "static" and keep the system up to date once in a while is:
Install/remove packages as preferred, save changes and, let's say, once in a few weeks update the static repo to recent date.
Then, there should be updates available, run "apt update && apt upgrade".
Probably then a number of packages will be upgraded.
I'd recommend to make a backup of the save storage (in case something goes wrong, it can be restored), reboot with changes saved.
Now see if all is well, there may be sometimes a small problem.
As an example, I recently had a problem with the transition from python2 to python3, there was no symlink "python" in /usr/bin anymore, so had to manually create it to make scripts work with "/usr/bin/python" on top.
Then if all is well (or fixed), make a remaster (e.g. with Quick remaster)
After that you'll have an up to date Debiandog Sid install.

Above is how I did frequently now for a couple of months.
Another option is to leave as is (static), then there never will be Debian updates.
Or set to "standard" (dynamic) and there will be updates available almost every day.

Fred

[williwaw]

thanks Fred.

[dancytron]

Installed the basic version on my laptop. Needed the extra sfs to have wireless.

All seems to be working fine.

[ally]

mirrored here:

http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_ ... Sid_32-Bit

http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_ ... Sid_64-Bit

[fredx181]

Thanks ally, Dan !

@ALL
At post #3 now some more info about "static" and "dynamic" repository.

Fred

[fredx181]

Updated "full" ISO's to 20200923:

Some fixed applications (upgrade-kernel, locale-conf), added some more applications, kernel upgrade to 5.8.0-2.
Download: https://github.com/DebianDog/Sid/blob/m ... o-20200923

Fred

[TerryH]

Yesterday I did a new manual frugal porteus boot install of DebDog Sid, all was working well. Saw this updated Sept 23 release so manually upgraded the installation to this version. This release is excellent, all software used running well. No issues. Excellent job Fred. Thank you.

[fredx181]

Hi all, here are kernel 5.9.1 "packages", aufs included

32-bit: https://github.com/DebianDog/BusterDog/ ... 386.tar.gz
64-bit: https://github.com/DebianDog/BusterDog/ ... d64.tar.gz
Extract in the "live" folder by replacing existing files (recommended to backup first vmlinuz1, initrd.img, initrd1.xz) and reboot.

Usually I take the Debian kernel and build single aufs module by using dkms. Up to v5.8 that worked, but not anymore for v5.9, so compiled myself the whole kernel "The Debian way" (apt source linux > debian patches applied) , applied the aufs patches and added the aufs files before building.
EXPERIMENTAL!! It works OK for me, but cannot be sure if it works for others, please test (should also work for Buster, but didn't try yet. EDIT: tested now on Buster and works OK for me).

Many thanks to @peebee for the "aufs changed files" viewtopic.php?p=7497#p7497

EDIT: linux-headers 5.9.1-dd deb packages:
32-bit: https://github.com/DebianDog/BusterDog/ ... 2_i386.deb
64-bit: https://github.com/DebianDog/BusterDog/ ... _amd64.deb

Fred

[fredx181]

I've got overlay(fs) working well now with the porteus-boot method using kernel 5.9.0-2-amd64, development of aufs is uncertain nowadays, so overlay is the future,and probably I will focus on that for next 'Dog' development.
Even got the EXIT: option working (save only at demand/shutdown) and using a very much modified snapmergepuppy (script that takes care of copying the changes).
Only limitation I can think of now is that "Load SFS on the fly" is not possible with overlay the way we could do with aufs, pity...
Loading .squashfs modules at boot by placing in the 'live' directory works fine though.
Output (partly) of "findmnt":

Code: Select all

TARGET                                               SOURCE                        FSTYPE     OPTIONS
/                                                    rootOV                        overlay    rw,relatime,lowerdir=/memory/images/k-5.9.0-2-amd64.squashfs:/memory/images/01-filesystem.squashfs,upperdir=/memory/changes/upperdir,workdir=/memory/changes/workdir
├─/mnt/live                                          tmpfs                         tmpfs      rw,relatime,mode=755
│ ├─/mnt/live/proc                                   proc                          proc       rw,relatime
│ ├─/mnt/live/sys                                    sysfs                         sysfs      rw,relatime
│ ├─/mnt/live/dev                                    none                          devtmpfs   rw,relatime,size=1003696k,nr_inodes=250924,mode=755
│ ├─/mnt/live/mnt/sda7                               /dev/sda7                     ext4       rw,noatime,nodiratime
│ ├─/mnt/live/memory/changes                         /dev/sda7[/beye/live/changes] ext4       rw,noatime,nodiratime
│ ├─/mnt/live/memory/images/01-filesystem.squashfs   /dev/loop0                    squashfs   ro,relatime
│ └─/mnt/live/memory/images/k-5.9.0-2-amd64.squashfs /dev/loop1                    squashfs   ro,relatime

Fred

[wiak]

I've got overlay(fs) working well now with the porteus-boot method using kernel 5.9.0-2-amd64, development of aufs is uncertain nowadays, so overlay is the future,and probably I will focus on that for next 'Dog' development.
...
Only limitation I can think of now is that "Load SFS on the fly" is not possible with overlay the way we could do with aufs, pity...

Glad to hear you are moving towards using overlayfs, since it is indeed the future and also has the advantage that kernels don't need to be custom built for aufs so can use standard well-tested upstream kernels since overlayfs capability included. Yes, pity about the load on the fly situation, though, depending on a person's OS usage, that is a minor issue really. I'm pretty sure someone will end up putting in the work to allow an alternative load on the fly sfs capability (I'm also pretty sure it can be done via nested overlays but since I hardly ever use sfs other than those I want in permanently at boot time I've never gone further than some simple experiments that convinced me it can be done). I also feel that overlayfs is a bit more efficient in resource usage than aufs, it's simpler under the hood anyway, but I haven't tested that thought quantitatively in any way so maybe I'm imagining it.

rufwoof also experimented with saving changes using overlayfs on WeeDogLinux, and provided tons of interesting ideas for all sorts of useful purposes (such as roll-back changes) though I've been too busy to implement his ideas as yet, but no doubt will eventually.

wiak

[dancytron]

Portable browsers and app-images makes load on the fly .sfs files less important than they used to be.

The only ones I use now are java and libre office.

[fredx181]

I also feel that overlayfs is a bit more efficient in resource usage than aufs, it's simpler under the hood anyway, but I haven't tested that thought quantitatively in any way so maybe I'm imagining it.

Well, I could do a fair comparison, (same kernel, same boot method) and found that RAM usage at initial boot is higher for me with overlay. (on 64-bit system, it's around 200MB, with aufs it's 140MB)
But could reduce initial RAM usage by creating less loop devices in /dev so it's okay.

I'm pretty sure someone will end up putting in the work to allow an alternative load on the fly sfs capability

Yes, hopefully, btw, the 'Dogs' contain (already for years) a script "loadsfs-fuse" meant to load SFS on a full install, but works on frugal too.
(based on an idea from mikeb, using unionfs-fuse and chroot, no aufs required, not merging with the system, just to run a single application)

Fred

[Duprate]

Hi! I can't wait to start FatDog64 with overlayfs! To be able to compile the Kernel without the aufs patches. Unfortunately, I cannot contribute technically, due to lack of knowledge ... I can only contribute by testing ... and enthusiastically encouraging those involved! Good luck to all of you and wish you success!

[fredx181]

Hi! I can't wait to start FatDog64 with overlayfs! To be able to compile the Kernel without the aufs patches. Unfortunately, I cannot contribute technically, due to lack of knowledge ... I can only contribute by testing ... and enthusiastically encouraging those involved! Good luck to all of you and wish you success!

Thanks Duprate!
I'll come up soon with a new Sid ISO using overlay boot, I'd appreciate testing ! (although the initrd will not work on Fatdog, as it has different setup)

Fred

[Duprate]

It must be my time to try some new stuff!

[fredx181]

*** DebianDog Sid ISO's updated: 20201124-overlay *** , using overlay instead of aufs now, see also at Changes and Fixes
Boot options are kept exactly the same, see examples here: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Debia ... -codes.txt
To add: Besides the EXIT: option (save changes on demand/at shutdown) there's also the +EXIT: option.
With EXIT:, temp changes are in RAM, with +EXIT: not, then the changes are in "tmp-changes" folder next to the "changes" folder (works only on a Linux filesystem)
The +EXIT option can be an advantage if you have little RAM (with EXIT, you may then run out of disk space soon, e.g. when installing many large packages)
Download:
https://github.com/DebianDog/Sid/blob/m ... o-20201124

Fred

[fredx181]

With overlay, the way we did load SFS "on the fly" (when using aufs) is not possible (only possible to load at boot by placing .squashfs modules in the 'live' folder).
However there's a way to load e.g. a single application .squashfs, for example I loaded gimp.squashfs (made with apt2sfs) from right-click in pcmanfm "Load module (in chroot)":

Load gimp.squashfs

Screenshot.gif (185.25 KiB) Viewed 9160 times

Fred

[Duprate]

Thanks for the good will fredx181! Downloading DebianDog basic and full ... Soon, let's go to the tests!

[fredx181]

Thanks for the good will fredx181! Downloading DebianDog basic and full ... Soon, let's go to the tests!

OK Duprate! For info, (in case not clear ) "basic" ISO isn't updated, so still using aufs.

Fred

[Duprate]

It's all right! I only installed the full version. I installed it on a partition where I have installed FatDog64 and Debian 10.6 live kit (old Slax). Perfect startup, a very nice look. Beautiful work. Easy settings. In this ultra-fast analysis, I still cannot give any other opinion unless it takes time to get used to and master the system, as I am used to FatDog64. I don't know why almost all distros insist on Firefox ESR, or worse: Seamonkey (I hate it!).
I really liked DebianDog with the boot overlay, it has a promising future. I will continue to use and learn from him. Thanks!

[TerryH]

@Duprate I notice you have posted desktops that has a very nice looking blue icon set. What it is and can you please advise where you got it from.

Thank you.

[dellus]

Not important, just for info:
Does not boot via supergrub2 from boot-iso folder, process stops with :
mount: mounting rootOV on /union failed: Invalid argument
sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
Boots from CD with no issues.

Dell DM051, Pentium D 915, 3 GB RAM

[Duprate]

@Duprate I notice you have posted desktops that has a very nice looking blue icon set. What it is and can you please advise where you got it from.

Thank you.

Hi! The neon icons are not mine. They are used in some puppies. I just edited them in PhotoShop, put frames. If you want you can download them from here: It is no longer available!

[TerryH]

Thanks for sharing.

[fredx181]

Not important, just for info:
Does not boot via supergrub2 from boot-iso folder, process stops with :
mount: mounting rootOV on /union failed: Invalid argument
sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
Boots from CD with no issues.

Dell DM051, Pentium D 915, 3 GB RAM

Good info, thanks.
I've found that it's the "Always Fresh" boot entry that fails because of the parameter "base_only", I've made a mistake with that.
Will fix soon.

Fred

[fredx181]

*** DebianDog Sid ISO's updated: 20201125-overlay ***

- Fixed the "Always Fresh" entry (previously it failed to boot).

Download: https://github.com/DebianDog/Sid/blob/m ... o-20201125

Fred

[Duprate]

With a few hours of use, I can configure something ... customize Firefox ESR ... add the microcode (it didn't work, maybe the kernel was not configured for that). The save file I converted to changes.squashfs. Now, I surf the web, almost unconcerned (as root?), With the dismounted drives. My portables (LibreOffice, PupSysInfo and Gimp) worked well. I am enjoying it ... I will try to compile the 5.4.80 kernel, straight from the official source. If it works, I'll post ...

[Duprate]

I noticed in this and also in another Debian, that when you quickly scroll the image on the screen in a vertical direction, the image is shaky right in the center of the desktop ...