Darkside of the Pale Moon

[DeeMal]

Compaq Desktop
AMD Athlon 64X2 Dual Core Processor 4000+
2 gigs of RAM
1280x1024 video

The attachment chromiumerror.png is no longer available

Bionic Puppy 64-8.0 uefi
Installed on 15 gig Lexar Flash Drive
2-4 gig swap file (I increased it twice and can't remember which size I did last.)
1 gig of RAM
Downloaded OS last week & burned it to a DVD on a different faster laptop.

Second, my computer told me to update Palemoon which I did. Once I updated ti it now it will not load. The only reason I am willing to even look at the browser is that it came bundled with Puppy. Other than that, I am happy with Chrome. Yes, I would like to take a closer look and all checking it out. I have attached the error message, however, it seems to load fine if I choose "Yes." The thing that irks me is that I increased the sfs file by 1 gig thinking that would be the end of this confusion. Nope.

chromiumerror.png (23.38 KiB) Viewed 1130 times

[bigpup]

I can only guess until you give some other info.

What format is the USB 's partition?

Have you done a shutdown of Bionicpup64 and when asked.
Did you make a save to store stuff you add to Bionicpup64?
Did you make a save file or save folder?
If save file.
What size did you make it?

[mikewalsh]

@DeeMal / @bigpup :-

Y'know, I'm really beginning to wonder what the hell's going on here. Several Puppians have now reported this same issue with Chrome under Bionicpup64, yet for me my Chrome-portable package runs and performs in Bionic64 like a dream......no issues of ANY sort.

Which would indicate that I must have something else installed/something set-up in a different way to everybody else. But I'm damned if I know what. I'll have to have a think about this.....do some "investigating", methinks.

------------------------------------------

@DeeMal :- The 'lack of space' thing. Just a thought, and I can't imagine it would be relevant, but.....are you by any chance running with a save-file as opposed to the recommended save-folder?

Usually, /tmp gets used for working-space for update operations. If Pup thinks there's too little, it'll then look for swap-space.....although you look to have plenty of that.

----------------------------------------

@bigpup :-

Bigs, did Bionic64 still come with the older-style, separate Pale Moon updater? I can't remember; if it ever did, I've long since removed it.

Mike.

[DeeMal]

I can only guess until you give some other info.

What format is the USB 's partition?
Ex4

Have you done a shutdown of Bionicpup64 and when asked.
Yes

Did you make a save to store stuff you add to Bionicpup64?
Yes

Did you make a save file or save folder?
Correction. Yes, increased the size by 1 gig so it should be around 1.5gigs

If save file.
What size did you make it?
See the answer above.

[DeeMal]

@DeeMal / @bigpup :-

Y'know, I'm really beginning to wonder what the hell's going on here. Several Puppians have now reported this same issue with Chrome under Bionicpup64, yet for me my Chrome-portable package runs and performs in Bionic64 like a dream......no issues of ANY sort.

Which would indicate that I must have something else installed/something set-up in a different way to everybody else. But I'm damned if I know what. I'll have to have a think about this.....do some "investigating", methinks.

------------------------------------------

@DeeMal :- The 'lack of space' thing. Just a thought, and I can't imagine it would be relevant, but.....are you by any chance running with a save-file as opposed to the recommended save-folder?

Didn't even know that was possible as I have never had these kinds of issues before. So it was save file.

Went to menu>utility>Resize personal storage file to increase it adding 1 gig.

Usually, /tmp gets used for working-space for update operations. If Pup thinks there's too little, it'll then look for swap-space.....although you look to have plenty of that.

----------------------------------------

@bigpup:-

Bigs, did Bionic64 still come with the older-style, separate Pale Moon updater? I can't remember; if it ever did, I've long since removed it.

Mike.

[JASpup]

Configurations are typically unique, but I recommend against updating the builtin browser because even though they try with updaters, your headache is normal.

Run the builtin version as spot, standalone as root, or .sfs as spot. .sfs work best when the builtin version is removed. You can run Chrome or any non-builtin browser by .sfs.

If you're not too committed you might like Fossa. I use Xenial but skip Bionic for Fossa when I need a newer distro.

.sfs are also better for memory issues. They are not installed thus take up much less ram when you're running live or frugal (with a pupsave).

[DeeMal]

Configurations are typically unique, but I recommend against updating the builtin browser because even though they try with updaters, your headache is normal.
Well, actually too late for this one but I certainly will remember this going forward, even when the message states, "We strongly recommend you update..." Frankly, if I can't updte the browser I won't use it at all.

Run the builtin version as spot, standalone as root, or .sfs as spot. .sfs work best when the builtin version is removed. You can run Chrome or any non-builtin browser by .sfs.
I am a little confused by this. I have only used Puppy after installation WITHOUT specifying any of these things. However, I admit my last use was with Precise. I will have to do more research on your suggestions here. It may come down to just using it as an encrypted device for the mortgage docs I want to place on it and playing music but no surfing of any kind.

If you're not too committed you might like Fossa. I use Xenial but skip Bionic for Fossa when I need a newer distro.
I am really committed to Google & Chrome. So if those two versions do not offer a working, stable, Chrome it will not work for me really.

.sfs are also better for memory issues. They are not installed thus take up much less ram when you're running live or frugal (with a pupsave).
So what exactly am I using now without any changes just installing it to my USB?

Thanks.

[JASpup]

Frankly, if I can't updte the browser I won't use it at all.

If you only want to use the latest browsers for maximum security (to the extent they are), that makes sense.

Otherwise the builtin browser has advantages:

1. If you are running in ram, so is it, without the need to use up any more.

2. The builtin browser is easy to run as spot which could be as big a security benefit as a newer version.

3. Nothing will be as fast except another browser in ram.

If you use Puppy a lot you'll learn how to update your browser anyway you like. This is more the get-goin'-now version.

Run the builtin version as spot, standalone as root, or .sfs as spot. .sfs work best when the builtin version is removed. You can run Chrome or any non-builtin browser by .sfs.
I am a little confused by this. I have only used Puppy after installation WITHOUT specifying any of these things.

It's a lot of info that one has to be seeking. The difference between I and the others is I won't write it technically, either for understandability or because I don't know the technical explanation.

Notice the difference between how Barry writes for the public vs. what he knows. Yet he can prattle off code and tech talk like we recite Mary Had a Little Lamb when that's the voice required.

My first boot was Precise. I got a kick out of seeing Linux boot but I thought it was more of a toy os. I came back a few years later to Tahrpup because I needed Linux. I'm typing in Tahr with a newer Pale Moon right now.

No surfing is how I think of Windows. I struggle with Puppy but only surf in Linux.

I am really committed to Google & Chrome. So if those two versions are not it will not work for me really.

Based on what you've written, I would try to uninstall any updates to Pale Moon if it is not running updated, create a launcher that runs it as user spot, and run Chrome standalone: http://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=146 OR load a Chrome .sfs. Four basic ways to run a browser, and you only want to install one if you're running it from a pupsave frugally. Otherwise it's eating up all your personal storage (ram). This isn't urging, but telling you what I would do from your perspective.

.sfs are also better for memory issues. They are not installed thus take up much less ram when you're running live or frugal (with a pupsave).
So what exactly am I using now without any changes just installing it to my USB?

If you write the .iso to a USB and boot it, that's a live session. If you save a pupsave, that's like a frugal installation to a USB, because if you actually used Puppy Installer, your USB essentially works the same as it would on an internal HD.

I've never technically 'installed' Puppy. We don't need to. I assumed you didn't attempt a full install.

I would full install, say, Ubuntu to a dedicated partition for the purpose of saving changes and not playing Puppy's downright cool os-in-ram game. Puppy is different.

[DeeMal]

Frankly, if I can't updte the browser I won't use it at all.

If you only want to use the latest browsers for maximum security (to the extent they are), that makes sense.

Otherwise the builtin browser has advantages:

1. If you are running in ram, so is it, without the need to use up any more.

2. The builtin browser is easy to run as spot which could be as big a security benefit as a newer version.

3. Nothing will be as fast except another browser in ram.

If you use Puppy a lot you'll learn how to update your browser anyway you like. This is more the get-goin'-now version.

Speed is not more important to me than security unless it is molasses slow. Because I am ignorant as to what you are presenting here, I will have to do more research.

Run the builtin version as spot, standalone as root, or .sfs as spot. .sfs work best when the builtin version is removed. You can run Chrome or any non-builtin browser by .sfs.
I am a little confused by this. I have only used Puppy after installation WITHOUT specifying any of these things.

It's a lot of info that one has to be seeking. The difference between I and the others is I won't write it technically, either for understandability or because I don't know the technical explanation.

Notice the difference between how Barry writes for the public vs. what he knows. Yet he can prattle off code and tech talk like we recite Mary Had a Little Lamb when that's the voice required.

My first boot was Precise. I got a kick out of seeing Linux boot but I thought it was more of a toy os. I came back a few years later to Tahrpup because I needed Linux. I'm typing in Tahr with a newer Pale Moon right now.

No surfing is how I think of Windows. I struggle with Puppy but only surf in Linux.

I appreciate your consideration in how you communicate to those in the beginner's thread. As stated in my previous response, I will have to do much more research on running apps as spot, standalone as root, or .sfs as spot. .sfs.

I am really committed to Google & Chrome. So if those two versions are not it will not work for me really.

Based on what you've written, I would try to uninstall any updates to Pale Moon if it is not running updated, create a launcher that runs it as user spot, and run Chrome standalone: http://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=146 OR load a Chrome .sfs. Four basic ways to run a browser, and you only want to install one if you're running it from a pupsave frugally. Otherwise it's eating up all your personal storage (ram). This isn't urging, but telling you what I would do from your perspective.

Thanks for the recommendation here. Same consideration by me as the other post(s) I've posted.

.sfs are also better for memory issues. They are not installed thus take up much less ram when you're running live or frugal (with a pupsave).
So what exactly am I using now without any changes just installing it to my USB?

If you write the .iso to a USB and boot it, that's a live session. If you save a pupsave, that's like a frugal installation to a USB, because if you actually used Puppy Installer, your USB essentially works the same as it would on an internal HD.

Yes, this is my install here. I actually had two installs and deleted one because I thought partitioning the USB drive for swap & data may have caused some issues. So there are no partitions other than the Puppy install along with the sav file located there. Since I have the same issues looks like that wasn't the case.

I've never technically 'installed' Puppy. We don't need to. I assumed you didn't attempt a full install.

I would full install, say, Ubuntu to a dedicated partition for the purpose of saving changes and not playing Puppy's downright cool os-in-ram game. Puppy is different.

No, I have NEVER installed Puppy on a hard drive. I have only used it live, saving it to USB or formating the whole USB drive for Puppy. Full installs are left for larger distros like Windows & Linux distros: Ubuntu, Zorin, Mint & elementary.

Thanks again for your time, patience & assistance. Sorry, it took so long to respond as I do not know how my original responses just disappeared.

'None of us are as smart as all of us."

[666philb]

loving the title of this thread

[DeeMal]

P.S. Any solutions that pass muster for me would have to be solutions that I think users who are even more challenged than myself could execute. However, that doesn't mean that the issue IS NOT resolved, of course. It just means I couldn't recommend it to others as we figure it out. I guess if I could create an image that includes the solution and burn it to a DVD and give it to others so that all they would have to do is insert the disk and discover the wonderful world of pups, then sure.

[bigpup]

DeeMal,

I think you tried to respond to my questions, but the post has nothing from you in it.

I think your main problem with updating Pale Moon Browser, is you did it before you made a save, to store the stuff in.

Puppy Linux uses a save file/folder as the storage location for anything changed or added.

When you first boot, there is no save.
So best to do the first shutdown and when asked make a save.
Next boot, the save will be used, and there will be a place to store stuff.

So do this first boot and shutdown making a save.
Boot using the save ,before adding anything.

[DeeMal]

That is incorrect. I create a save file immediately after installation AND CERTAINLY BEFORE the message to update Palemoon came about so I haven't a clue as to what you are speaking of. So rebooting has done nothing to resolve this issue. I choose the initial size etc for that file before the first shutdown after installation. So yes now I am totally confused why you think that isn't the case.

[JASpup]

@DeeMal I would have to re-read to try and glean what happened to your Pale Moon, but essentially when a builtin browser works and you attempt to update it, a hiccup is normal.

The reason is the builtin browser is read-only. It doesn't go away even if you update it, and the update will conflict.

In some cases a fix could be something simple, like editing a launcher to specify a path. In other cases it can be horrendous.

If (big IF) the update is a package, like a .pet or .deb, you can usually just uninstall it via the ppm to get back to Pale Moon's initial (hopefully working) state - ain't broke don't fix way of thinking.

I'll tell you how this works:

Peabea who makes the 32-bit pups uses the unique Light browser on current releases. It's a good choice because it's small, but the other useful aspect about it is it doesn't interfere with any other browser, so you can install whatever else you prefer, with no need for Pale Moon's hit-or-miss updater.

The read-only problem with updating can apply to any builtin app.

If security is most important there's a current browser as spot. There I would save installed Chrome in a pupsave. The bane of standalone browsers is they don't run well as spot unless you copy them to the spot directory, but they don't use memory or system storage which is a great benefit.

If you can get Pale Moon to how it came out-of-the-box and install a recent Chrome and save it in a pupsave, you'll have yourself two working browsers.

[JASpup]

Skeptical:

Chromium is not Chrome. 70 is not current. It's up to 96 I think.

The way to get the space to install Chrome (hopefully not the .pet in your graphic), is to shut down making a pupsave (the standard 512M should work for a start), then reboot to install Chrome after you've updated the repositories.

[bigpup]

That is incorrect. I create a save file immediately after installation AND CERTAINLY BEFORE the message to update Palemoon came about so I haven't a clue as to what you are speaking of. So rebooting has done nothing to resolve this issue. I choose the initial size etc for that file before the first shutdown after installation. So yes now I am totally confused why you think that isn't the case.

What size did you make the save file?

I just tried in a fresh installed Bionicpup64 8.0 to update Pale Moon browser.
Worked OK for me.
So, can not produce your error.

Internet downloads do not work correctly 100% of the time.
Something could have happened in the download process, you do not know about.
This can happen to any internet service provider.
Sure has on the one providing service for me.

You probably do not want to hear this.
But strange problems have been fixed, by doing a completely new download, of the Puppy version ISO.
A clean fresh install.
Bad downloads and installs do happen.

One thing about installs to a CD/DVD, is use a slow burn speed.
No faster than 8.
You are assuming the CD/DVD dive and burner program are working 100% correctly.

[DeeMal]

Thanks. Sorry, my initial post IS NOT clearer. There are three issues: This pic is for the Chromium issue which did not install. As I remember it was the same message even after increasing the save file. Second issue: Chrome did install WITHOUT this message loads BUT only works if I cut or paste the address or click on an address from history. If I touch any key it crashes over and over. Third Issue: Pale moon sent an alert that it strongly recommends that I update. I did and now it will not load at all.Thanks. Sorry, my initial post IS NOT clearer. There are three issues: This pic is for the Chromium issue which did not install. As I remember it was the same message even after increasing the save file. Second issue: Chrome did install WITHOUT this message loads BUT only works if I cut or paste the address or click on an address from history. If I touch any key it crashes over and over. Third Issue: Pale moon sent an alert that it strongly recommends that I update. I did and now it will not load at all.

[bigpup]

after increasing the save file

To what size?
It may still be too small.
1GB or larger is best.

Bionicpup64 has a update feature that does install a lot of bug fixes.

On desktop Quickpet icon.
Quickpet->Info->Bionicpup updates
Reboot updating the save, so these changes are now being used.

Installing browsers in Puppy Linux is a little problematic.
There is a few fixes the Quickpet bionicpup updates provides for the browsers offered in Quickpet.
After those offered in Quickpet.
Best to get browsers from this forum in Additional Software->Browsers & Internet

[DeeMal]

That is incorrect. I create a save file immediately after installation AND CERTAINLY BEFORE the message to update Palemoon came about so I haven't a clue as to what you are speaking of. So rebooting has done nothing to resolve this issue. I choose the initial size etc for that file before the first shutdown after installation. So yes now I am totally confused why you think that isn't the case.

What size did you make the save file?
It was at least 512 and then I increased it from there I believe a gig.

I just tried in a fresh installed Bionicpup64 8.0 to update Pale Moon browser.
Worked OK for me.
So, can not produce your error.

Thanks for that. SMH

Internet downloads do not work correctly 100% of the time.
Something could have happened in the download process, you do not know about.
This can happen to any internet service provider.
Sure has on the one providing service for me.

You probably do not want to hear this.
But strange problems have been fixed, by doing a completely new download, of the Puppy version ISO.
A clean fresh install.
Bad downloads and installs do happen.

Holy Crap! But I ran checksums in hopes that it would be fine but I hear you! And I know that a checksum doesn't necessarily mean that there WAS NOT a hiccup while data was transferred.

One thing about installs to a CD/DVD, is use a slow burn speed.
No faster than 8.

Well, for all my other burns at the same speed like Zorin, Ubuntu, & Puppy & Open Suse. All of them booted with no issue within the last month or so. And at least the issue with Chrome has been reported by others

You are assuming the CD/DVD dive and burner program are working 100% correctly.

Yes, and once it boots, I'm thinking that it is all good.

Thanks for your help.

[DeeMal]

after increasing the save file

To what size?
It may still be too small.
1GB or larger is best.

512 at the beginning and increased by at least another 1gig. However, I am going to go back and replace it to 2 gigs.

Bionicpup64 has a update feature that does install a lot of bug fixes.

I have updated with no luck before your post here unless there is another place to update.

On desktop Quickpet icon.
Quickpet->Info->Bionicpup updates
Reboot updating the save, so these changes are now being used.

See my previous answer

Installing browsers in Puppy Linux is a little problematic.
There is a few fixes the Quickpet bionicpup updates provides for the browsers offered in Quickpet.
After those offered in Quickpet.
Best to get browsers from this forum in Additional Software->Browsers & Internet

Thanks for this, I clicked on what was offered in Quickpet. No issue so far, at all with Opera.

Thanks for your help.

[DeeMal]

Skeptical:

Chromium is not Chrome. 70 is not current. It's up to 96 I think.

The way to get the space to install Chrome (hopefully not the .pet in your graphic), is to shut down making a pupsave (the standard 512M should work for a start), then reboot to install Chrome after you've updated the repositories.

Thanks. Sorry, my initial post IS NOT clearer. There are three issues: This pic is for the Chromium issue which did not install. As I remember it was the same message even after increasing the save file. Second issue: Chrome did install WITHOUT this message loads BUT only works if I cut or paste the address or click on an address from history. If I touch any key it crashes over and over. Third Issue: Pale moon sent an alert that it strongly recommends that I update. I did and now it will not load at all.

[bigpup]

I wonder if you may have better luck trying a newer version of Puppy Linux.
Bionicpup64 is starting to show it's age.

Fossapup64 9.5 is the latest official Puppy version.
Has many improvements not in Bionicpup64.
viewtopic.php?t=820
.
.
.

[mikewalsh]

@DeeMal :-

You should get on with my colleague's suggestions. You always like to run the very newest browser.....and he always wants to run the very newest Puppies. You two sound like a match made in heaven..!

Of course, both of you ARE kind of relying on software built by somebody else to always do its job correctly.....without necessarily understanding exactly how the software works, and why it does what it does. In both cases, you're only interested in the end result; software that does exactly what you EXPECT it to do.

Life's not always quite that predictable.

Mike.

[JASpup]

If you're not too committed you might like Fossa. I use Xenial but skip Bionic for Fossa when I need a newer distro.

I think I read you're too committed, but you might be at the stage where you have to choose your headache.

( Starting over is never a headache for me, just a big time sink. )

[DeeMal]

1. Sav file replaced with 2gigs
2. Clicked on save icon on the desktop after finished
3. Rebooted
4. Installed Chromium from Quickpet.
5. Success, other than some error messages regarding Codecs, it looks like it was installed and is fine.

1. Clicked on Palemoon from menu, still nothing, no change.

1. Clicked on Chrome from Menu, loads up fine, looks beautiful UNTIL I touch keyboard and it crashes.

1. DVD doesn't work still but as said before, I can live with that.

The conclusion really, the only thing I can't live without it I am going to use it more is Chrome. BTW, as far as speed goes on this computer it kills as compared to the Zorin Lite full install while surfing. So speed here is not an issue in Opera or Chromium.

Thanks!

[DeeMal]

If you're not too committed you might like Fossa. I use Xenial but skip Bionic for Fossa when I need a newer distro.

I think I read you're too committed, but you might be at the stage where you have to choose your headache.

( Starting over is never a headache for me, just a big time sink. )

Fair point but it ain't happening soon if I decide to go your route since I have already installed it at least two times.

[DeeMal]

I wonder if you may have better luck trying a newer version of Puppy Linux.
Bionicpup64 is starting to show it's age.

Fossapup64 9.5 is the latest official Puppy version.
Has many improvements not in Bionicpup64.
viewtopic.php?t=820
.
.
.

I will check it out, thanks.

[DeeMal]

@DeeMal :-

You should get on with my colleague's suggestions. You always like to run the very newest browser.....and he always wants to run the very newest Puppies. You two sound like a match made in heaven..!

Of course, both of you ARE kind of relying on software built by somebody else to always do its job correctly.....without necessarily understanding exactly how the software works, and why it does what it does. In both cases, you're only interested in the end result; software that does exactly what you EXPECT it to do.

Life's not always quite that predictable.

Mike.

LOL. My coding days are long gone. I'll take this under advisement. Thanks.

[DeeMal]

loving the title of this thread

Thanks.

[JASpup]

1. Clicked on Palemoon from menu, still nothing, no change.

What happens when you run Pale Moon from the command prompt?

On this 32-machine here my command is:

Code: Select all

run-as-spot /opt/palemoon/palemoon --private

spot and private aren't necessary, but the full path might be.