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puddlemoon wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:25 pmBut first... if you get the latest .zip from the second post, this is best.
Hmm. Not for me. NVidia drivers may be missing, so I can't see much of anything on my tower computer. Worse, when booting from the new .zip file contents on my Lenovo Legion, the screen is completely black. Not sure what that is about as I usually am able to use the nouveau driver on the laptop...
puddlemoon wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:49 pmI have also uploaded a "multiboot" zip (915 MB) for flash drive.
I realise that this is probably a side issue for you, but I find it very interesting.
It's my contention that a ".zip" file is a more USB stick friendly release container than an ".iso" file.
Especially for uefi booting , where no "mbr" is needed or used.
(Using a ".zip" file on my machine is even easier since it doesn't need the flags set.)
Congratulations in putting all this together.
Many years ago, I had a need to play around with midi files, but now I have no need for any sort of multimedia stuff,
so unfortunately I will not really be testing this large Puppy.
But I may download the ".zip" to confirm that it works.
@globetrotterdk yes, I have realised that those instructions were vague at best. Sorry for that. 
Easy for uefi but slightly more involved to get legacy going. I have updated that part of the post to be more clear I hope.
Hmm indeed, odd that you are having more issue with what "should" be the more stable kernel. The main reason for the jumble of those different uploads was to make the 5.10 low-latency kernel optional because there was a shutdown issue with some hardware.
Perhaps the 5.10 will be better for you after all, certainly the choice if you want to use the nvidia drivers. (which are not included in any puppy that I know of and would need to be added after install)
If you start with the 14-3-21.zip, then add the puppy_jackalpup.sfs, you will be caught up and in good shape to troubleshoot.
I don't already know the answers but am happy to brainstorm. Everything works on the machines I have to test with.
@gyrog
Thanks for the interest. It is a side issue so to speak but it is the main method I use when booting via usb. The method could use some refinement no doubt. A script that would install g4d to the drive and leave the menu.lst and other drives alone would be cool but beyond me currently.
Another big advantage is to have the ability to exchange sfs files so that the bootable usb can be updated (or in this case kernel swapping) without a save or persistence.
If you do download... the ydrv and ardv are optional addons so you can slim it down that way
For the UEFI booting problems.
Do not use Grub4dos boot loader.
Use a UEFI boot loader like Grub2 that fully supports UEFI booting.
Puppy now has a full UEFI compatible installer program.
Frugalpup Installer.
http://www.fishprogs.software/puppy/fru ... index.html
It does frugal installs to any drive.
It can install a UEFI, Legacy bios, or both boot loaders.
If you instal a UEFI boot loader it installs everything needed to boot with secure boot enabled in UEFI.
Along with the UEFI boot loader, it installs the Puppy security key, needed for secure boot enabled.
This is how to install to a USB stick, but this also works for internal drive, if Puppy is the only OS on the internal drive.
Use Gparted program.
Setup the USB stick with 2 partitions.
First one, small 300MB, fat32 format, flagged boot. (location for boot loader files, boot partition)
Rest of drive, whatever other partition(s), but one ext3 or 4 format. (location to put frugal installs)
(this is UEFI standard requirement, and some computers, look for a fat32 partition, for boot loader files)
Run Frugalpup Installer main program.
On the main window are selection buttons.
Select the Puppy button, to do the install.
Go through install process, selecting to install to the ext formatted partition.
Note:
When selecting the partition to install to.
A window pops up, giving option to make a directory, to put the frugal install in.
I make this directory and usually name it, the name of the Puppy version.
Carefully read that windows info.
Press enter, makes the directory, not the OK button.
complete the install.
When it gets back to the main Frugalpup window.
Select the boot button.
Select the location of the frugal install, on the USB stick.
Select the small 300MB partition on the USB stick, as location to install the boot loader. (may need to scroll the selection window)
Select the boot loader type.
UEFI
mbr ->legacy bios boot
both
You can install the UEFI for UEFI computers, mbr for legacy bios computers, or both, to boot anything.
The UEFI will also install the needed files, to support secure boot enabled in UEFI.
When you first boot the USB stick, on a UEFI computer, with secure boot enabled.
A process will start, to allow you to install the Puppy security key, to the computer.
It will add this Puppy key, to the other ones, loaded on the computer.
Note:
Not all UEFI computers are the same, for booting from a USB stick.
Some may require secure boot disabled, CSM enabled, or legacy boot enabled, to be able to boot from a USB stick.
So, for those computers.
The mbr boot loader will work, because the UEFI bios, is basically in, legacy bios operation.
To put more frugal installs on the same USB stick.
Do the complete Frugalpup Installer process again, for the new Puppy version.
When you run the boot loader install.
It will make entries, for all installs it finds, on the USB drive.
If another main stream Linux or Windows is on the internal drive.
Better to edit their menu with an entry to boot Puppy.
However, work is being done booting other OS.
Frugalpup v26 is now able to also make boot menu entry to boot Windows.
Info on latest changes here:
viewtopic.php?p=19940#p19940
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected 
@puddlemoon
Sorry, I made an assumption that your ".zip" file was capable of being directly unzipped to a usb stick and then booted, with uefi.
Clearly it's not, since if you do this you will find just a 'jackalpup-0.0-multiboot' directory in the root of the stick, the "booting" files and directories that should be there are all 1 level down in the 'jackalpup-0.0-multiboot' directory.
It's not likely to boot with this structure.
@gyrog indeed it was intended for the files to be transferred as opposed to extracted directly to usb. Seemed tidier at the time and perhaps less confusing for people, but maybe it is the more elegant way to do it to unzip directly.
If that is a suggestion I am very open to input and would happily replace the zip with a direct to usb style.
Also I don't seem to be explaining myself very well currently, not sure if that was involved...
@puddlemoon
I don't want to hi-jack this topic any more.
I have a thing about releasing Puppy in a form that is optimal for USB sticks, i.e. a ".zip" of a frugal install.
And I got a little excited to see someone release a Puppy as a ".zip" file.
I intend to open a "ziprelease" topic on this forum server in the near future, and I think it would be more appropriate to discuss this sort of stuff there.
@gyrog
No worries at all. I will keep an eye out for that that topic.
Meanwhile... I have repacked the .zip files (a full and slim this time) to be extracted directly to usb.
In testing again I was also able to extract directly to a fat32 usb and boot, unmodified (no flags set!) from my uefi test machine.
One can then run Grub4dos, with the "only this device" and "do not rewrite menu.lst".. then set the boot flag to complete the multi boot setup.
With a used, formatted drive, just the flag needed setting. however with a new, unchanged, drive, I had to rewrite the partition table to run g4d. (but again, the brand new drive did boot uefi untouched)
A small change but I think this is a much better flow so cheers for chiming in. I had not even considered leaving the flags unset...
puddlemoon wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:58 pm@globetrotterdk yes, I have realised that those instructions were vague at best. Sorry for that.
Easy for uefi but slightly more involved to get legacy going. I have updated that part of the post to be more clear I hope.Hmm indeed, odd that you are having more issue with what "should" be the more stable kernel. The main reason for the jumble of those different uploads was to make the 5.10 low-latency kernel optional because there was a shutdown issue with some hardware.
Perhaps the 5.10 will be better for you after all, certainly the choice if you want to use the nvidia drivers. (which are not included in any puppy that I know of and would need to be added after install)
If you start with the 14-3-21.zip, then add the puppy_jackalpup.sfs, you will be caught up and in good shape to troubleshoot.
I don't already know the answers but am happy to brainstorm. Everything works on the machines I have to test with.
Do you mean copy puppy_jackalpup-0.0.sfs from the newest version of jackalpup-0.0-multiboot.zip to the USB pen drive with the jackalpup-0.0-multiboot_14.03.21 system?
@globetrotterdk
Yes, considering your machine was able to boot up with that zip it seems the best place to begin. You will also want/need to use the low-latency kernel if you intend to use nvidia drivers. The puppy_jackalpup.sfs from the newest zip will give you the latest versions of the apps so we are on the same page. The package is designed to be modular, exchangeable sfs for different needs.
I hope that will get you up and running. I have also adjusted the instructions for the .zip method, which clearly was no issue for you with uefi but has changed slightly, and to actually explain the grub4dos steps... Hopefully this dell of yours with cooperate at some point.
Sorry for any confusion.
Thought I'd direct this question to @puddlemoon since he's the Jackal Master.
I've put quite a bit of energy into my copy of Jackalpup since March. Of course I have savefiles going back with each major upgrade and tweak. But my current save has all the good stuff that took many hours of adjusting. I've got more software installed than I need in terms of browsers and other applications that I have since migrated to appimage versions and so forth. All that to say I think it's soon time for a re-master with all my personalized settings and applications.
There are a couple of questions I have. The first is, it seems like I might do well to uninstall some of the packages, but I'm afraid to do that, because of the libraries that came with them, and the potential to break things needed for other apps. Musescore is an example. I think it added a whole Qt5 library package. Now I use a Musecore appimage, but other installed programs probably run on Qt. Question: Do I need to uninstall anything before re-master, or does the re-master process take care of that by only transferring the necessary dependencies?
It's been almost a decade since I tried a re-master, which worked well to my surprise. It was easier than I thought. But before I start I'd like to get some sound advice on how to clean it up first.
Thanks as always, whoever might want to give some input.
~geo
geo_c
Old School Hipster, and Such
Hi @geo_c
Sorry for the belated response, life is full of all but puppy stuff of late..
Jackalpup will be easier to remaster than straight fossa because I've combined the adrv into the puppy.sfs. still it is quirky and was largely trial and error. The remaster will not take care of dependencies at all. I would consider assembling your app images and testing them on a fresh save (no save) to confirm all dependencies are within. you could then take just /root from your latest save to bring in all (most?) of your app/desktop settings. This, I think, Would get you close to a clean version but with all or most of your customizations.
Let me know if that helps. 
Tried to download Jackalpup from your posted download location.
Got this:
.
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected
Thanks @bigpup for pointing that out. I will check into it.
Meanwhile, the other link to ally's archive.org page is still up and up to date.
Hey there,
Love this Pup.
Used it before on a flash drive and it was awesome.
However, how do you get this booted via Ventoy? Is this based upon a modern Pup that is cool with Ventoy or no?
Anyone else here using it on Ventoy, or is that impossible for Jackalpup to actually save to a Ventoy specific partition?
Hi @Shortstop
Gald you're enjoying jackalpup.
I have only used ventoy a little and not yet with persistence. I dare say it will behave exactly as it would with fossapup or any other recent pup. The only differences in this and fossapup shouldn't matter so any advice you can find here should be applicable.
Have you tried with other pups?
Any other pup, as well as Jackalpup, gives me a 'negative' file size for the save .sfs file screen itself when I attempt to shut off the computer.
Its weird because the second partition for the 'VENTOY' is supposed to allow you to write anything to it, but I get the feeling Puppy Linux does NOT like the file format for that file system so it can't write a .sfs file to it.
My only workaround for now is to just use a separate USB drive I bought for Jackalpup in that case so that it plays nicely with the machine since I don't think it will do so with Ventoy.
Hi @Shortstop
I have posted some instructions on problem-free use of Ventoy.
Using those instructions, I am NOT experiencing the problems you share for any of the modern PUPs or the FossaPUP64 remasters published on the forum.
Can I offer a solution to your recent dilemma? If so PM me.
@puddlemoon Very interesting distro and great features. ONLY isssue I noticed is in Hardinfo>Operating System>Current Session>Language is NOT consistent with what I setup on FirstRUN. It is showing "en_GB.UTF-8..."
I am NOT a musician, but this is useful for music and other multimedia needs I have. Thanks!
Edit: The "issue" I posted,above, I am going to call "USER ERROR". That is a non-issue had I followed the system request to restart the desktop upon closing FirstRUN. Sorry!
Hey there,
Where are your Ventoy related directions? Are they in this thread? If not can you please link them and I’ll check them out and try it.
Or PM is fine too whatever you prefer. Thanks for this answer since I felt like I was probably doing some kind of weird mistake.
Please follow its steps and dont shortcut it in your first use. After your first-use following those steps, you can introduce other variants you might want. When you are complete in the folders it prescribes, please PM me for an explanation of the Ventoy&jackalpup problem you hit. Instructions ===> https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?p=38449#p38449
If you have a test USB stick, follow those directions and built on it versus modifying the USB stick you are having these problems with. It will serve as a good reference to compare against for use with PUPPY linux.
Summary
Since many get confused by a wordsy explanation I think this summary should help
Create a new Ventoy disc from its ISO
On the 1st partition of the Ventoy disc, create a folder whose name is BOOTISOS
Add any modern PUP-DOG ISO files to the BOOTISOS folder, including but not limited to this JackalPUP
AND, I REPEAT, "AND" add the SG2D ISO file, as well, to the BOOTISOS folder
When this is done on a new USB stick test to insure it boots same as your old Ventoy stick
On the Ventoy desktop, scroll to the SG2D ISO file and hit enter to start it
On the SG2D Menu screen HIT ENTER (DO NOTHING ELSE!)
Wait a minute for it to list what it finds
Scroll to the bottom on this screen to see your PUP ISO files
On the JackalPUP line, hit Enter to get to the JackalPUP Menu
Boot JackalPUP
This summary, I think, helps. If not let me know IF IT DOES. Your Ventoy disc should only look like this download/file.php?id=7248
ALSO, When you get to th JackalPUP desktop, let me know here for instructions to complete a successful save session.
Hey Clarity,
I think you're missing one section though.
I don't think Jackalpup or Puppy Linux derivatives don't like the Ventoy partition in general. Every time I've tried to save a '.sfs' file it always give me a literally negative save file size value, ex: -2 MB (I know that's the not right amount, but you get the point).
Are you re-formatting the Ventoy partition differently?
Also, why doesn't Puppy Linux like Ventoy's default second partition aka the one where you can chuck files onto it by default? Is it because it prefers FAT32 or something?
EDIT:
However, I will check out that separate Ventoy thread you linked in your previous post (viewtopic.php?p=38449#p38449) and go through it, since I think that's probably the best approach for this.
I do still plan on using a separate dedicated USB flash drive for Jackalpup just cause, since I wanted to get in the experience of setting up a USB flash drive again for Puppy Linux, but will explore this option with Ventoy separately too.
@puddlemoon The Jackal has some problems in what is to occur when shutdown is attempted after a pristine boot. It is NOT presented what one would expect in comparison to other modern woofce PUPs. Further it is not behaving as expected upon reboot.
@gyrog has a whole writeup on what should be occurring in shutdown so that upon reboot, save-session discovery will proceed without a hitch.
The process for pristine boots I am following is
Multiple attempts made
boot the JackalPUP ISO file either via QEMU/Ventoy/SG2D
At Jackal Menu, merely hit the 'enter-key' on its 1st line
upon desktop, make desktop changes (i.e. FirstRUN & PPM update)
Process shutdown-reboot (proper selection of units is not what is expecting)
Upon reboot, session is not discovered during initialization toward desktop
Other attempts
boot the JackalPUP ISO file either via QEMU/Ventoy/SG2D
At Jackal Menu, EDIT the 1st line adding to the vmlinux stanza "psave=sda8:/Session/" (this line tells PUP where to place/find the save-session folder); then boot
upon desktop, make desktop changes (i.e. FirstRUN & PPM update)
Process shutdown-reboot (proper selection of units is not what is expecting)
Upon reboot, session is not discovered during initialization toward desktop
Using each of these, namely ISO file boots, is a type of frugal without the need to expand the ISO to media units. So, booting from the ISO file, directly, is not the problem. During desktop operations, Jackal behaves as expected with no issues.
The problem is in how JackalPUP is processing shutdown and what occurs to save the Jackal folder. If it is designed to purposely be different, would you explain a use case, please.
Further, the problem seen has absolutely nothing to do with GRUB2 boot managers used to boot PUPs.
Would you take a look at what is occurring?
Or, Can you explain why the shutdown is proceeding different to other PUPs?
My configuration is an Intel PC with a Windows HDD with various partitions including an EXT4 partition as well as a single USB sticks to boot PUPs from.
@Shortstop Please follows the directions, INCLUDING folder names, on your attempt to use Ventoy OR SG2D directions? It is designed to reduce/eliminate use issues such that its a failsafe.
If has been proven to work since postings. PLEASE post ANY discrepancies in the directions, should you discovery any.
Thanks in advance.
Clarity wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:19 pm@Shortstop Please follows the directions, INCLUDING folder names, on your attempt to use Ventoy OR SG2D directions? It is designed to reduce/eliminate use issues such that its a failsafe.
If has been proven to work since postings. PLEASE post ANY discrepancies in the directions, should you discovery any.
Thanks in advance.
Hey Clarity,
I checked your instructions under the 'This set of steps should be reasonably feature complete.' header for that thread, 'viewtopic.php?p=38449#p38449'.
It still doesn't discuss the .sfs save file process, and if any Puppy Linux distro that is booted into after Ventoy will actually save its .sfs file to it via the default 'VENTOY' partition.
@puddlemoon have you reviewed the concern I raised on Save-session findings?
My findings were with the FULL ISO file. I have not tested the SLIM version for that problem, but assume its the same.
@Shortstop did you build a USB as it instructs to, at least, complete that minimal part including the part where it "recommends" a particular ISO file?
If you did, boot the SG2D ISO file on your USB, and follow its directions to desktop. That's why it is there to assist when Ventoy does not setup characteristic to PUPPY Linux. If you dont follow those build directions, I cannot assist. Those directions have been thoroughly vetted with the focus on Puppy Linux needs. AND, any issues you find in their use, please post there and expect assistance in the build and use of the USB stick.
Doesn't seem you did the steps.
Just trying to help you.
Clarity wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:52 pm@Shortstop did you build a USB as it instructs to, at least, complete that minimal part including the part where it "recommends" a particular ISO file?
If you did, boot the SG2D ISO file on your USB, and follow its directions to desktop. That's why it is there to assist when Ventoy does not setup characteristic to PUPPY Linux. If you dont follow those build directions, I cannot assist. Those directions have been thoroughly vetted with the focus on Puppy Linux needs. AND, any issues you find in their use, please post there and expect assistance in the build and use of the USB stick.
Doesn't seem you did the steps.
Just trying to help you.
No worries, that's a great idea to just stick with the plan and use 'SG2D'!
I've honestly never used it before but it seems to be just a way to force GRUB to do the right actions to setup Puppy in the right manner.
Good idea, maybe that might do the trick in that case. To be fair, I didn't do this yet, so I was going off of my previous test with just pure Ventoy --> booting straight into Jackalpup.
I will try the related steps another time and see if it works in that respect as it would be pretty awesome to have multiple Puppy's on the same drive with just save files.
Thanks for this so much.
@Shortstop
Glad there is some progress. Again, this is ultimately a puppy/ventoy question not specific to jackalpup so probably better to make a thread with a relevant title to get more minds involved. Sorry I've not been able to chip in.
@Clarity
Thanks for helping
I have been pretty far from the puppy world of late. Point me to the discussion of saved sessions and I'd gladly take a peek.
I will be uploading an incremental update soon. Ardour 6.9 and a few other things.
