Cloud puppy, advise asked...

[wizard]

@Volhout

Firewall - I don't use Zoom, so you need to test Zoom with the firewall running to see if there are any issues. May need to disable firewall so users can't select it during internet setup.

Let me know.

wizard

[Volhout]

@wizard,

For today my last remark
The school app starts teams, and performs the login.
In cloud-fossa this does not work (starting teams and performing login)
In Bionic with chromium it works, so I think it is a configuration difference in fossa.

Regards,

Volhout

[wizard]

@Volhout

Is the firewall disabled?
What version of Bionic?
What version of Chromium & how was it installed?

You need to give details each time there is an issue

wizard

[wizard]

@Volhout

I gave you some bad advice about monitoring the savefile, skip gdmap. Use xfe and monitor the properties of these two directories related to Chromium:

/root/spot/.config
/root/spot/.cache

Note they are both hidden, so you'll have to turn on show hidden in the panel menus.

wizard

[wizard]

@Volhout

I currently have a one solution to fix the savefile issue, but it requires the computer be set for legacy mbr boot. Let me know if that is acceptable.
How many computers do you have to configure?

wizard

[dancytron]

Can you give me a link to your iso and I'll figure out how make the Chromium save it's settings to where you want it to thing work?

[wizard]

@dancytron

https://sourceforge.net/projects/lxpup/ ... s/download

Thanks
wizard

[Volhout]

Hi wizard,

Legacy boot mode works, no problem. I have even booted them with puppy 5.7.0.
I have 12 computers for this project.

Bionic is the 64 bit puppy linux version 8.0
Then i updated it using the build in updater.
Then I took Chromium from puppy repository, I think it is version R70.

Volhout

[wizard]

@Volhout

disable your firewall and try the school app again

Can you give me a link to it?

wizard

[Volhout]

Hi wizard,

In the office atm. Will try tonight.

Volhout

[Volhout]

Hi wizard,

I did not install the firwall myself. Maybe you have.
To make sure it is changed to something known, I ran firewall_setup, and selected default values.
With the default settings in the firewall the login problem persists.
//The bionic version, I ran without any firewall (at least, I did not activate it at firstrun).
//I activated the firewall in bionic with defaults, and then still could login. So I am pretty sure the firwall is not to blaim (unless bionic defaults are different)

I cannot provide access to the school app (the IT people have holiday, and there is no "test-ID" that I know of.
So I am playing at risk with the ID's of real children. If I mess up, I have absolutely no idea how I can recover.
Please understand this is atm not possible.

To be honest, I got a bit frustrated that my playing with Chromium could really slow down the system to a halt.
At a certain moment I could not even get into root mode anymore. The popup for password did not appear anymore.
Nothing worked anymore, could not launch calculator, could not shut down. But also could not check if this was because the save file was full.
Had to hard-shutdown the laptop.

Regards,

Volhout.

P.S. just rebooted, and the save file was not full, there was 90Mbytes free.

[wizard]

@Volhout

The idea of a BETA is to test it find and report issues.

wizard

[wizard]

@Volhout

Here's the next release, cloudpup-fossa64-rc1:

viewtopic.php?t=4816

Lots of small changes and more:
-top taskbar hidden until mouse over
-right side top taskbar widgets activated
-Chromium limited to one instance
-Chromium open tabs limited to 10
-savefile use in conky thanks to @HerrBert
-ability to use save folder instead of save file (this should fix the save file management issue)

For your test:
-use gparted and format your USB flash to ext3
-Install with Unetbootin
-after first boot, do a reboot and choose save folder
-DO NOT ACTIVATE THE FIREWALL WHEN SETTING UP WIFI (it's a checkbox)

wizard

[Volhout]

@wizard,

I followed the link, and found choice between RC1 and RC2. I installed RC2 as per your instructions.
Format Sandisk 16Gbyte USB to EXT3, used Unetbootin to install image

Booted the image.
- set timezone
- selected Frisbee, and opened WIFI
- the save file used was 599Mbyte/3.8Gbyte (this was a 16Gbyte USB stick...3.8Gbyte ?)
- when opening Chromium on school website, opening Teams (yes that worked), video conferencing... all worked.
save file use 932Mbyte
- close Chromium -> save file 676Mbyte used.

Power down system
!! there is a question to save or not save (can we avoid that ?) we just want to save I guess... or not ?

Power up system
!! The "grub4dos" bootup choice (I selected Default).... can we avoid that by time-out =0 or timeout = 1 ?
save file 514Mbyte used (and that is consistent through reboots. Very good.

This version looks very good. I can do what is needed. From here on it seems it is only cosmetic changes that come to my mind.

Cosmetics:
- the icons in the tray are not intuitive (speaker symbol versus green sliders / WIFI symbol versus shaded monitor). Maybe there is an iconset that is more intuitive (Ubuntu uses more intuitive symbols, mostly black and white, in trays).
- I changed the video resolution from 1920-1080 to 1366-768 to increase the tray size and improve readability. There is nothing wrong with puppy, but working on a high resolution small (14") laptop screen the 1366 resolution simply better workable.
- the power-up and powerdown questions may be avoided (maybe I had to evaluate RC1, and RC2 was not for me to test ?).

This is a winner, I am pleasantly surprised, and will spend some more time evaluating. Excelent work wizard....!!

I will try if Unetbootin can install to SD card, if that succeeds then we have the last hurdle taken..

Thanks you wizard, and all who contributed...

Regards,

Volhout

[Volhout]

Hi wizard,

Just confirmed Unetbootin can image an SD card, and the machines boot from it...Cloud-Fossa RC2.
Running OK.

On the SD card the save file is 14.1Gbyte on a 16Gbyte SD card (probably the whole card)
On SD card after a reboot the save file uses 700Mbyte. (Not the 514Mbyte from the USB stick).
But it returns back to 700Mbyte each reboot. So that is fine....

Success story today !!

Volhout

P.S. I noticed that when running from SD card I don't get the question at power down to <save> or <not save>. It simply shuts down with (terminal shows) text "session already saved". I also notice that there sometimes is a bit of a slow down while browsing (few seconds). Is the save folder treated different on SD card compared to USB stick ? The filesystem on card is EXT3

[wizard]

@Volhout

between RC1 and RC2.

RC1 is more restrictive, see post #8

save file used was 599Mbyte/3.8Gbyte (this was a 16Gbyte USB stick...3.8Gbyte ?

Did you mean save folder? It is my understanding that a save folder will grow to
meet the need.

!! there is a question to save or not save (can we avoid that ?

Maybe, but might be undesirable.

can we avoid that by time-out =0 or timeout = 1 ?

Yes, in the case of the Unetbootin USB, edit extlinux.conf

I will try if Unetbootin can install to SD card

Unetbootin on my Dell e6430 will install to the sdcard. You will also have to copy your save folder to the sdcard for your custom settings to be included. This also takes save folder selection out of the users hands.

wizard

[Volhout]

Hi Wizard,

I have 1 technical issue with RC2.
The chosen network configuration tool is not persistent. I select Frisbee, and during the current session Frisbee is the chosen tool. Then I repower, and I get SNS when I click on the network icon in the tray.
This is on the SD card install.

Am downloading RC1 now. Iĺl check her out also.

Regards,

Volhout

[wizard]

@Volhout

Think you have your terminology mixed up.
save file = a single file with a fixed size
save folder = a directory with many sub-directories that shrinks and grows on demand

I get SNS when I click on the network icon in the tray.

That is by design, based on your target users expected ability.

Be sure to read my replies up about two post.

wizard

[dancytron]

@dancytron

https://sourceforge.net/projects/lxpup/ ... s/download

Thanks
wizard

Okay. I think this should work. Take the .zip off the attached file, and put it in /usr/bin and make it executable.

Then, create a folder /mnt/home/GoogleSettings and set the ownership to "spot" and make sure it is editable etc.

Then, to test it, run /usr/bin/chromium-alt from the terminal. If that works, then you can decide if you want to make another .desktop file or just run the chromium-alt directly etc...

If it doesn't work, the error in the terminal when it fails will tell us the issue (which will probably be the chmod and chown settings on the /mnt/home/GoogleSettings folder).

[Volhout]

@wizard,

I fear that the SD card save folder (not file...I stand corrected) is updated constantly. This is why I think why.
(by the way, this is the same between RC1 and RC2).

1/ running from SD card there is no question to "save" like I have when running from USB stick.

2/ When Chromium is running, the statistics show increased save folder usage.
When I close Chromium, the amount of memory used slowly creaps back to the level it was before chromium started. This however can take up to minutes. All the time the statistics show the top 4 memory consumers are "chrome". And chome is not really closed. If you restart Chromium, you get a popup, "Chrome is already running".
And you cannot restart the browser until "chrome" has disappeared from the statistics.
Or maybe chromium is cleaning up his cache real slow ??

You can simply duplicate this by closing the browser, and then starting it again within seconds.

One more technical observation:
When I power down by pressing the power button shortly, a different shutdown procedure is started. This results in warnings at the next powerup that the system is shutdown incorrectly.

Regards,

Volhout

Edit: running from USB stick now, and I can confirm that closing Chromium immediately frees up memory, and you can immediately restart chromium. This is really different from SD card, where it can take seconds to minutes.

[wizard]

@Volhout

I fear that the SD card save folder (not file...I stand corrected) is updated constantly.

Confirmed on my e6430. However, the e6430 does not natively boot from sdcard and I trick it into booting. That means I can't verify some types of changes so need your help.

Edit the grub.cfg file
-set pmedia=usbflash
-reboot
check if you get a save icon on the desktop

Item 2/, this is behavior related to Chromium on the sdcard that I can't control.

When I power down

This is something I can't duplicate and may be just related to the e7450

wizard

[dancytron]

I fear that the SD card save folder (not file...I stand corrected) is updated constantly.

IMHO, that's a bug. It should be treating an SD card as a flash drive, not as a hard drive. Originally that was the whole point of Pupmode 13 (the save button instead of realtime).

[Volhout]

Hi wizard,

I will try, but usbflash is not the SD card reader. The sd card reader in my old acer netbook was connected to usb. But in this laptop it is a PCI device.

Just tested, set pmedia=usbflash does not change the behaviour. No save button...

Volhout

P.S. I understand you cannot boot from SD card, and thus you cannot reproduce the power down issue, but can you verify the function associated with the power down button is identical to the power down icon in the tray ?

[Volhout]

@wizard,

Now I know why I got confused.

I remember seeing a save button on the USB drive version, but that save button disappeared. I thought that was intentionally, and that is why I was not surprised there was no save button in the SD card version.

But.... The USB version, I placed the save button in the lower right corner. Then I changed the screen resolution to 1366x768. The save button went off screen (stayed at it's position of around 1800 horizontal and 900 vertical. So out of vision of a 1366x768 screen. I put the resolution back at 1920x1080, and there it is.. In the USB version. Not the SD version.
The SD version does not have a save button. No where.

Does this make sense ? Or do I confuse you even more .. Sorry ...

Volhout

[Volhout]

@wizard, dacytron,

Under the hood there is something with pupmode 13 that is stragne.

The 16G USB stick was formatted EXT3, size on stick 14Gb. This is again confirmed by Gparted. Iso image put on to it with Unetbootin. Power up, select save to folder at power down. Power up again, and the statistics (is this Conky ?) show the save file size is 3.8Gbyte. This could be a text fault, and it is a save folder size. But it is strange that the max file size on FAT32 is 3.8Gbyte, the max save FILE size.
Again, the stick is EXT3, is is a save folder, not file (Also visible in Gparted, then the EXT3 partition would be filled for more than 25%, and it is not.
So somewhere the size is limitted to 3.8G

The SD cards are 16Gbyte, formatted EXT3, size on SD card around 14G. Conky shows save file size is 14G.
This is really different.
And (I agree with dacytron) it looks like the SD card is treated as a harddisk, not a flash device.

That is something you should be able to reproduce at your side. The missing SAVE button must be obvious.

Regards,

Volhout

P.S. I hope I do not discourage you ? These are nasty problems into the heart of what puppy is. There may be a problem in one of the oldest scripts for pupmode 13.

[wizard]

@Volhout

Again, the stick is EXT3, is is a save folder, not file (Also visible in Gparted, then the EXT3 partition would be filled for more than 25%, and it is not.
So somewhere the size is limitted to 3.8G

The save folder size is not fixed, it should grow as needed

I fear that the SD card save folder (not file...I stand corrected) is updated constantly.

I did confirm this above, but did not elaborate enough. If the sdcard is being written to in real time (continuously) then:
-it is being treated like a hard drive
-it is running in pupmode 12
-there is no save icon on the desktop

I understand you cannot boot from SD card, and thus you cannot reproduce the power down issue, but can you verify the function associated with the power down button is identical to the power down icon in the tray ?

This assumption is incorrect, I have at least 20 computers and the shutdown action varies by make, model, and age. Some just shutdown with no warning, some the action is controlled by a setting in bios. In the case of my e6430, pressing the power button, while puppy is running, opens the acpid window with the warning that the computer will shutdown in 30 seconds. After this shutdown, the system will reboot without error.

These are nasty problems into the heart of what puppy is. There may be a problem in one of the oldest scripts for pupmode 13.

No, these are just configuration errors, the sdcard is running in pupmode 12 (hard drive) and puppy is doing exactly what it is being told.

After examining some of the files Unetbootin uses, I suspect it to be the root of the problem. I need you to create a new sdcard install using this procedure:

-boot with cloudpup-fossa64 USB
-press ctrl shift i
-click Installer
-click USB Flash drive/SD card
-choose sdcard
-click Gparted
-format drive as ext3
-close Gparted
-click the sdcard
-click Install Puppy to
-click OK
-click Install Bootloader

Reboot to the sdcard

wizard

[Volhout]

You actually are a wizard.....

The SD card behaves identical to the USB now. Issue solved.
That is a relief....

Volhout

[Volhout]

Hi wizard,

Many of the cosmetic things, i may be able to fix myself (like replacing iconsets), but is there anything you can do about the network tool not being persistent?

And maybe you can hint what script to change to skip the save question. Simply always save.

Thank tou for your effort and dedication. It is almost finished, and can be released to the kids. Jan 10th school starts, so there is a week left. I plan to tune one 4Gb sd card and then dd to copy it to the other cards. Dd'ing 4gb is faster than 16gb. With current memory management, even 2gb could be possible.

Regards,

Volhout

[wizard]

@Volhout

(like replacing iconsets)

This is not straight forward, tell me what icons you want

network tool not being persistent?

What tool do you want as the default in the bottom tray?

skip the save question. Simply always save.

Will have to see if I can find and change

-Do you want to use RC1 or RC2 as the base?

wizard

[TerryH]

skip the save question. Simply always save.

When running in PUPMODE 13, you will have an icon in the Systray. This icon runs Puppy Event Manager, which allows you to alter when a save occurs. The default is set to '0' (at shutdown) with a check mark against to ask at shutdown. If you uncheck this box, it will always be saved when you shutdown. You can also change 0 to a number to do periodic saves at an interval of your choosing as well as also at shutdown.

You can also access Puppy Event Manager from Menu > System > Puppy Event Manager