KLV-Airedale-alpha Released for Experimentation and Improvement by the Puppy community

[wiak]

Certainly I think overlayfs can't add extra layer once built but I just wonder about idea of rebuilding complete layer and switching for a second time later?

Remounting / with added extra layer you mean perhaps ? I tried that, but overlay is stubborn (without showing any error it stays exactly how it is)

No, I was wondering about taking the already created overlay (merge), adding new layer to that via a new overlay (merge as lower layer - i.e. part of nested overlay) and then somehow chroot to that - or similar. I have no idea beyond a thought and may not be useful.

[rockedge]

I can't get @fredx181's dir2xbps GUI to run! Command line seems okay though I have not tested fully. I get the message to run from command line. tty returns /dev/pts/1

[Grey]

If you have nothing positive to say, why post in a thread that doesn't interest you,

Please excuse me for interfering. I just wanted to clarify one question for the future (I don't know much about democracy). Do we express positive thoughts in an interesting thread, and negative thoughts in an uninteresting one?

[mikewalsh]

@rockedge :-

I can't get @fredx181's dir2xbps GUI to run! Command line seems okay though I have not tested fully. I get the message to run from command line. tty returns /dev/pts/1

Make sure 'dir2xbps' is set as executable, Erik. Then, for me:-

Code: Select all

/full/path/to/dir2xbps(space)/full/path/to/directory/to/make/a/package/from

....followed by 'Enter' seems to do the trick. The GUI doesn't appear until that info has been entered first, apparently. It shows up at precisely the moment the user would need guidance....

(Just had an odd occurrence of my own. Bought a new 'toy' earlier today, and left it plugged into my USB hub while booting into KLV a little while ago. For the first time ever, I got a 'kernel panic', with all sorts of dire warnings. Unplugged me toy (a 'cheapo' webcam I found in the sales), re-booted again.....good as gold.

Doesn't seem to like encountering unknown hardware at the moment of booting, it seems.)

Mike.

[wiak]

If you have nothing positive to say, why post in a thread that doesn't interest you,

Please excuse me for interfering. I just wanted to clarify one question for the future (I don't know much about democracy). Do we express positive thoughts in an interesting thread, and negative thoughts in an uninteresting one?

Constructive thoughts maybe? After all it is the community that is making the decisions and implementing them.

[Clarity]

Please understand my comments, here on this thread. It does NOT take sides AND it should NOT offend any of us.

What is currently active, is this new "Puppy-like" distro being crafted in Puppyland...Along with the development of traditional PUP inscriptions via WoofCE OR via remasters of existing PUPs...all occurring simultaneously here and across the forum.

And, there are 2 "NEW" (maybe 'recents') that are actively progressing simultaneous to the above; namely @BarryK's approach AND @dimkr's approach.

Although some may disagree with me, what I seem to see reading between the lines is one group who is happy with producing easy to boot distro(s) via their mere download to 'helper USBs' the likes of ISObooter, Ventoy & SG2D versus those who DONT see any need to use a helper as they envision a completely different community of desired users.

YES, I KNOW some criticize my continue to show the use of the helpers, mainly because it make it all too easy for any user to immediately get to a desktop, and I apologize for continuing to endorse this technique as I see it eliminating the issues that Frugal attempts in the past have caused users. SO I APOLOGIZE TO THOSE WHO'VE GROWN WEARY, AGAIN.

But, to my view, this issue of ease of boot might be subterranean or foundational for the issue of OLD PUPPY-LIKE distros vs the NEW EASYs manner of distros (including the WoofCE that DimKr is helping us with) that this thread is now pushing toward, considering the recent comments.

I THINK THERE IS, rather, I KNOW THERE IS ROOM for everyone of the myriad of approaches to functional, stable, and secure distros coming out of this community that perform enormously well on the PCs we have.

I try, as best I can, to test, evaluate,and comment on the many forum distros I find members presenting.

I find each developer, as well as, each community of developer-users extremely helpful and desirous of feedback which gives developer pride that what they produce is worthy. And, I support several projects anyway I can, to help where I can with whatever resources I can muster, to make each's journey a pleasant one.

AT the end of the day, what I hope is foremost in EVERY developer's mind is

• What is the simplest and easiest way for a user to take my distro, download it, and get to its desktop?

• How can I make my distro perform at a peak level of possible achievement of its hardware?

• Can I produce a comparable mix of apps to support what most humans want?

• Can my distro be attractive enough for evaluating users to want to use all the time?

• And finally, is my distro approach staying as current as possible for new hardware?

YES, I KNOW THERE ARE MANY OTHER IMPORTANT QUESTIONS that can be thrown?

So, as this year draws to an end, I, PERSONALLY, want to THANKS all the DOGs we have as they are absolutely wonderful in both designs, support, and their builder strategies. I want to THANK all the PUPs we have, as those developers are creating solutions that we need in many different flavors. I too ESPECIALLY THANK the WoofCE contributors with their great efforts to setup a builder that is both flexible & functional across the broader Linux world.

I wonder how we can work together without the advent of fracture? I will try to think of methods that attract new 'tire-kickers' to the work everyone is doing via some simple webpage that opens for them allowing outsiders to know that Puppy Forum (or "PUPPY") is a combination of Linux distributions. And in that webpage, have it describe the different distros such that it is easy for them to not get confused by the myriad they currently see. Last year, I was thinking about some sort of a questionnaire that a user could answer where it would offer a type of PUP(s) that might match their "liking" (or licking ). I gave up on that idea as it has the potential of "stepping on some developer's toes" if their distro was not a recommended start from a questionnaire. So, I am at a loss of what method would be best to steer a user where the hope is that he/she stays to becomes a contributing user, just as everyone here is. Maybe a webpage that not only list (table of contents at the head of the page) the name of the forum distro offerings, but also have the authors offer a sentence or a paragraph describing their distro, simply. I am sure others have thought long and hard on this topic as well.

Looking forward to the continuation of the wonder things that are done to mature what we know as 'Puppy Linux'.

I hope NO ONE reads this as being something negative as that is NOT this post's attempt.

[bigpup]

Using Alpha 6

I am using pfind program loaded as a SFS.

The only feature not working for me.
Do a search for something.
The listed results are shown.
If you right click on one and select show location.
Nothing happens.
Usually, this would open the file manager, to the file system location of the item you selected, to show location.

I am not that good at figuring out code.
But looking at pfind script code.
This show location seems to be set to open the default file manager.
Maybe the info, for what is the default file manager, is not in the location, pfind code is looking, for it.

[bigpup]

Does no one understand what alpha stage, of developing a operating system, is?

This is not a finished product and is not going to act like one.

This is trying some new ways of doing stuff.
Some may work.
Some may not.

This is even trying a new way to package software to install it.
Not pet packages, but xbps packages.

Ok we now have the idea suggested by clarity that when this is released.
It would be a good idea to make it boot-able by using ISObooter, Ventoy & SG2D.
Simply be able to boot directly using nothing but the ISO.
If you think about it.
What is really different.
Looking inside the ISO for the needed stuff or looking in a frugal install directory, for them.
As long as some kind of boot loader, can find and see the needed stuff to use, it works.

Someone want to help make sure the needed stuff will be in the ISO?

[mikewalsh]

Quick question, gang.

Anybody have any idea why KLV is NOT seeing the 56 some-odd GB of 'swap' I have scattered around the system..?

I want to try out the Suspend' function. I have one contiguous chunk of 48 GB of swap in one location, because the way this HP suspends is to mirror the entire amount of RAM to disk in a single lump, regardless of how much is in use.....and I have 32GB of the stuff. That functionality is hard-wired into the UEFI, and can't be altered, because there's no settings to change it.

According to gKrellM's 'swap' meter, there's nothing there. Has KLV taken a look at the amount of RAM I have, and decided I don't NEED 'swap'? Or is swap not mounted in Void by default?

A confused Mike.

[williams2]

When Linux suspends, it does not use swap space.

When MS Windows suspends, it copies most of the ram memory to hiberfil.sys,
so it is ready to hibernate.

When Linux hibernates, it does copy most of the data in ram to the swap space.

I have no swap space at all. and Puppy suspends with no problems.

AFAIK, Linux swap space does not need to be contiguous.

According to gKrellM's 'swap' meter

If gKrellM is displaying the Amount of Swap Space that is being used,
then probably you are using 0MB of swap space,
because you don't need swap space because you have 32GB of ram.

swapon -s
swapon --show

swapon --help

[dimkr]

You must be criticising Void Linux too then

No, I'm not. It's a rolling release distro for advanced users. But if KLV is trying to be a stable, out-of-the-box usable distro, it should avoid mistakes like using old GTK+ 2 applications, otherwise it's heading towards an inconsistent and RAM intensive Wayland desktop.

Why the accusation of KLV-airedale interest being a case of anyone 'wasting their time'.

I didn't say it's a waste of time, only offered the helpful of advice of paying attention and not doing the same mistakes as Puppy. If you don't read carefully, please don't blame me for things I didn't say.

If you have nothing positive to say

I offered https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... el-kit.yml as a source of up-to-date-kernels, and gave a small list of areas where Puppy is bad, so KLV can be better. Isn't that a 'positive' thing?

Please ban me from this forum, @rockedge, if you believe my intentions are bad.

why post in a thread that doesn't interest you

It interests me enough to offer my help here and there. What makes you think it doesn't interest me?

unless you feel it is stealing some of your work without acknowledgement

No, my Puppy-related work is permissively-licensed and all of it is publicly available in GitHub, even when it's under heavy development. Nobody needs my acknowledgement to use it, and I don't mind it if people used it without crediting me.

Are you afraid of other distro build efforts

Yes, I'm afraid of having yet another sibling of Puppy which fails to attract enough users and contributors to lift it off the ground, because it makes the same mistakes. Every new distro in the Puppy family creates more fragmentation and eats up resources like advanced users who file bug reports.

Isn't that a legitimate concern?

[wiak]

Why the accusation of KLV-airedale interest being a case of anyone 'wasting their time'.

I didn't say it's a waste of time, only offered the helpful of advice of paying attention and not doing the same mistakes as Puppy. If you don't read carefully, please don't blame me for things I didn't say.

So; are we "wasting our time" here then?

That's exactly what I'm thinking about. Nobody needs a distro that suffers from the same issues as Puppy, or a distro similar to Puppy with big compromises (like high RAM consumption).

Seems like you did think we are "wasting our time" or at least that's what your immediately above comment reads like to me. Sorry if I interpret the english incorrectly somehow.

And, it's fine that you need no acknowledgements or credit for the ideas in your own work, but most permissive licenses require at least acknowledgement and only polite to acknowledge source of ideas or algorithms rather than pretend originality, so I'm sure that would always be done if any of 'your original ideas' were used in KLV ever. Perhaps you don't feel the need to acknowledge any of your idea sources? - that would be very wrong.

Must go, actual work needing done (ongoing water pump saga). The focus in this thread is KLV-airedale, be it good or bad is up to the community to constructively manage and I see no reason or point in comparing with any other distros here. I'm all for Puppy itself continually improving, and also for the new Voidpup32, which also uses xbps, which I find exciting and useful (and nicely compiments KLV-airedale and similar KLV releases).

[fredx181]

I can't get @fredx181's dir2xbps GUI to run! Command line seems okay though I have not tested fully. I get the message to run from command line. tty returns /dev/pts/1

I made it on purpose so that it must run from terminal , to check the output for possibly errors and see the xbps-create process.
Can be changed I think, e.g. with output from yad GUI instead. (or perhaps output to xterm, which isn't installed by default, btw).
Then it can possibly be used as a right-click action in the file-manager (how it is now, I think it cannot, but not sure).

Another thing, I'd suggest to include squashfs-tools in the next build (for mksquashfs, unsquashfs).

[wiak]

or perhaps output to xterm, which isn't installed by default, btw).

Came across mrxvt (in Void repos) as an alternative to xterm for simple terminal (with tabs) - much smaller install than most of the other similar basic terminals. Used it with my recent weX install for KLV-airedale (I made simple modification weX script to use that as terminal if xterm or rxvt not there). I prefer Lxterminal and similar for interactive terminal use, but simple terminal such as xterm, rxvt, and not smaller mrxvt good for script outputs sometimes.

[wiak]

Are you afraid of other distro build efforts

Yes, I'm afraid of having yet another sibling of Puppy which fails to attract enough users and contributors to lift it off the ground, because it makes the same mistakes. Every new distro in the Puppy family creates more fragmentation and eats up resources like advanced users who file bug reports.

Isn't that a legitimate concern?

Yes, I understand that concern, but DebianDog has been around since 2013 - completely different to Puppy - not Puppy at all, and has its followers and advocates too on this forum. Did it take away Puppy advanced users - yes, I suppose it did take some. That's the nature of life - alternatives come into being and sometimes become the new focus of interest for some or all. I prefer not to use the word 'competition' because I don't see these alternative distros as purposively competing. But certainly, if the forum community shrinks over time, or has already shrunk, then there are less members to provide feedback and file bug reports - even BarryK discusses his EasyOS here, which is not Puppy either and attracts its own advocates. No point being 'concerned' about these facts of life. Personally I think choice is a great thing, and collaboration helpful in developing all different styles of distro - there is a limit to how much anyone can do on their own and I for one am grateful to see all the new efforts and useful utility scripts and so on being developed (especially for use with Void's xbps). As for the development of voidpup, well that was a huge unexpected benefit in my opinion - been hoping for something like that for years.

[fredx181]

Can be changed I think, e.g. with output from yad GUI instead.

Following up on: viewtopic.php?p=45754#p45754
New dir2xbps script, changes :
- Not dependent on running from terminal, so can be used with right-click action from e.g. Thunar or Rox (directory)
- Usage can be same as before e.g. dir2xbps <directory> or just run dir2xbps
If <directory> is not provided as argument, (just running dir2xbps), a folder selection dialog will appear first (to select the "appdir")
- Output is now through yad GUI, see below pic.

dir2xbps.gz

Remove fake .gz and make executable

(4.08 KiB) Downloaded 40 times

Screenshot_2021-12-30_14-12-24.png (56.41 KiB) Viewed 1417 times

[rockedge]

Another thing, I'd suggest to include squashfs-tools in the next build

Definitely is added to the PLUG file recipe as well. I found out quickly I needed squash-tools and xterm to be included.

@mikewalsh Interesting that the camera still plugged into the USB port caused a kernel panic. This must be kernel-module-firmware related I am thinking.

Maybe the info, for what is the default file manager, is not in the location, pfind code is looking, for it.

I think we just need to add the script (wrapper) defaultfilemanager to /usr/local/bin that launches the file manager of choice. Or we change some code in pFind to call what is available in the already present default applications management system.

I don't know much about democracy

Neither do I.

Wasn't around during that period of ancient Greece and these days see very few differences between the White House and The Kremlin, except for the colors of the buildings.

Question...does V. Putin have any pets hanging around the shop?

@fredx181 You are a Meister of Code. Excellent ideas and this utility is a huge addition and is like finding a new chamber in the Great Pyramid of Giza

[fredx181]

@rockedge

Did some investigating and found out why most "xfce" applications won't show an icon (opening thunar in /usr/share/applications)
It should be because of icon naming e.g. Icon=org.xfce.filemanager (with . in between).
Also that's the reason why xlunch shows so many "ghost" icons.
Changed to: Icon=orgxfcefilemanager in the xfce4-file-manager.desktop file, renamed to orgxfcefilemanager.png in /usr/share/icons/hicolor, ran gtk-update-icon-cache --force /usr/share/icons/hicolor and the icon shows in /usr/share/applications, also in xlunch.
Good to know perhaps, but not much to do about it, I guess.

[mikewalsh]

@rockedge :-

Um.....I don't know if this helps.

@mikewalsh Interesting that the camera still plugged into the USB port caused a kernel panic. This must be kernel-module-firmware related I am thinking.

My 'default' webcam - the Logitech c920 - is permanently plugged into one of the rear USB ports. This new purchase - a Trust 'Trino' - was left plugged-into a self-powered USB 7-port hub.....but this is always powered-on anyway; it's attached, vertically, via BluTak, to the inside edge of my front desk leg, and is where all my mice/keyboard dongles live. So it's always 'live' when booting into any OS.

So; make of it what you will.

Mike.

[Clarity]

@wiak and others; I wonder if mterm/xterm or whatever 'terminal' is settled upon, will have the guts needed to run 'btop+' for the benefit it offers.

I think its value exceed htop and would be a great tool servicing the needs of everyone who uses it for whatever reason they would have in observing system behavior overall.

Fingers crossed that a terminal is selected that support BTOP+ ... and maybe BTOP+ could be a system admin tool as part of the KLV base.

Also, along the lines of a modern suitable Terminal program, here is a review of a "Wayland" terminal that I thought some here might want to see; namely 'ddterm'. I am NOT advocating for this, on KLV, but I thought that its knowledge might be something we should review.

Just a thought which I feel would benefit the community at large.

[Grey]

Question...does V. Putin have any pets hanging around the shop?

If the question is about dogs, then yes. His most beloved dog has already died. It was a Labrador named Connie. But he has at least 5 more dogs:

1. Central Asian Shepherd Dog (aka alabai) nicknamed Faithful. These dogs are the pride of Turkmenistan and it seems to me that their export from there is still prohibited.

2. Akita-inu breed dog from Japan named Yume (Dream). The same breed as Hachiko.

3. Kyrgyz greyhound (aka taigan) named Sherkhan. A noble hunting dog from Kyrgyzstan.

4. Bulgarian Shepherd (aka Karakachan dog) named Buffy. In Bulgaria, his name was Yorko, which means "God of War". But now he's Buffy

5. And finally my favorite dog from this list Sharplanin shepherd dog (aka Illyrian shepherd dog) from Serbia named Pasha. A rare breed that has been banned from being exported from Yugoslavia for a long time. Such a dog will protect the herd and the shepherd at the cost of his own life from any wolf and even a bear.

[fredx181]

I wonder if mterm/xterm or whatever 'terminal' is settled upon, will have the guts needed to run 'btop+' for the benefit it offers.

Doesn't seem to matter which terminal used, btop works ok for me with xfce4-terminal as well as xterm, here's a xbps package:

Will upload a bit later (dropbox link), file too large to attach.
EDIT: here's btop-1.1_4.x86_64.xbps https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/70w ... .xbps?dl=1
Install with inst-xbps, e.g. inst-xbps /path/to/btop-1.1_4.x86_64.xbps and run from Menu > System > Btop

[rockedge]

@fredx181 Using dir2xbps on this build I keep getting this error :

Code: Select all

root# dir2xbps /root/Build/dropbear-1.0.0-x86_64
dropbear|1.0.0|x86_64||ssh server|/root/Build/Packages|
xbps-create: ERROR: invalid pkgver! got `dropbear-1.0.0' expected `foo-1.0_1' 

What am I doing wrong?

[fredx181]

@fredx181 Using dir2xbps on this build I keep getting this error :

Code: Select all

root# dir2xbps /root/Build/dropbear-1.0.0-x86_64
dropbear|1.0.0|x86_64||ssh server|/root/Build/Packages|
xbps-create: ERROR: invalid pkgver! got `dropbear-1.0.0' expected `foo-1.0_1' 

What am I doing wrong?

Last number of version must have a _ in front (instead of a . ) like this: 1.0_0
edit; this is how you need to fill in at the GUI, folder name-version doesn't matter how it is e.g. can be just "dropbear" only.
edit2: this is different way than how you may have been using "dir2pet" where the GUI can "take over" "name-version" from the directory name.

[mikewalsh]

@fredx181 :-

Fred, I'm having issues with your newest version of dir2xbps. It's insisting I don't have YAD installed (I do!), or I'm not using GTK3-version..?

Have we recently changed the version of YAD in use? The interface opened fine on the previous version.....or did you build this in one of the Dogs, or somewhere else?

(EDIT:- Nah, scratch that. Uninstalling/reinstalling YAD seems to have fixed the issue, despite that it's exactly the same package! Weird.)

Mike.

[mikewalsh]

@fredx181 Using dir2xbps on this build I keep getting this error :

Code: Select all

root# dir2xbps /root/Build/dropbear-1.0.0-x86_64
dropbear|1.0.0|x86_64||ssh server|/root/Build/Packages|
xbps-create: ERROR: invalid pkgver! got `dropbear-1.0.0' expected `foo-1.0_1' 

What am I doing wrong?

Last number of version must have a _ in front (instead of a . ) like this: 1.0_0
edit; this is how you need to fill in at the GUI, folder name-version doesn't matter how it is e.g. can be just "dropbear" only.
edit2: this is different way than how you may have been using "dir2pet" where the GUI can "take over" "name-version" from the directory name.

Oh, I see what bigpup was talking about, now. Earlier in the thread, he thought it was insisting all packages had to be called 'foo'. In reality, 'foo' is simply given as an example, showing that that final"_x" is expected.....yes?

Sometimes takes a while for the "penny to drop", as you get older..!

Mike.

[rockedge]

In reality, 'foo' is simply given as an example, showing that that final"_x" is expected.....yes?

Yes does. Took me until today to get it. Finally when the lights went on, I am wondering how I did not put 2 + 2 together and get 4.

The error line could be more clear though....I did not notice that the "_" was required.

[mikewalsh]

@rockedge :-

In reality, 'foo' is simply given as an example, showing that that final"_x" is expected.....yes?

Yes does. Took me until today to get it. Finally when the lights went on, I am wondering how I did not put 2 + 2 together and get 4.

The error line could be more clear though....I did not notice that the "_" was required.

Ah, I wouldn't worry too much, Erik. It took ME 3 or 4 goes before I saw what the error message was trying to tell me.....then, looking back at Fred's first post, it was so obvious I could have kicked meself!!

Never mind, mate. You've done a bloody marvellous job with this thing so far. You can be proud of what you've achieved, my friend.

Mike.

[rockedge]

Dropbear SSH server latest version. Compiled in KLV-Airedale, packaged by @fredx181 dir2xbps and successfully installed with Fred's inst-xbps

Dropbear SSH server information

Dropbear_Land-320px.png (32.79 KiB) Viewed 1388 times

dropbear-0.81_1.x86_64.xbps

(217.46 KiB) Downloaded 39 times

Install and in a terminal generate Dropbear keys in /etc/dropbear using ->

Code: Select all

set_dropbear_keys.sh

Start dropbear in a terminal:

Code: Select all

dropbear

[rockedge]

Running some experiments using the SFS-load-on-the-fly from Puppy Linux. Trying out different combonations in the /etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE file.

I did manage to get something to layer in AUFS I think but not working in any real sense.

@fredx181 Looking at the possibility of a sfs2xbps tool to convert SFS packages into xbps formatted packages. With dir2xbps and sfs2xbps utilities working the next step would be a direct pet2xbps

wonder if @peebee would be interested in a pet2xbps and xbps2pet ? I imagine these would be possible.