Cloud puppy, advise asked...

[wizard]

@Volhout

But when I started some of the apps, my identity changed, and I was teacher again. I could even change my grades... So somewhere identities where swapped.

You need to turn off save passwords in settings.

[wizard]

@Volhout

Here's a look at a quick Puppy makeover of fossapup64 9.5. Chose it since I have lots of experience manipulating it and it will run the newest browser versions. As it stands now:

-chromium64_94.0.4606.54_lx_spot.sfs
-user has access to only those apps in the bottom tray:
-chromium
-shutdown
-calculator
-simple network setup

There is also a top tray (hidden) that shows:
-tasklist, running apps
-network monitor
-volume control
-freememmapplet
-clock

There is a "drives" icon in the lower left, but it is disabled, don't know how to get rid of it yet.

There is an administrative override which gives the admin full access and control, currently a four key sequence on the key board. Will be adding a password to that for extra security.

Let me know if you're interested, if so, things you would like to add. May be ready for beta 12/22.

wizard

desktop.png (114.52 KiB) Viewed 902 times

browser.png (174.87 KiB) Viewed 902 times

[Volhout]

@wizard,

This is simply great !! It is kind of what I was working towards myself. Can see that you are much more experienced in this !!

Things I would add/change:

1/During development the statistical data on screen may be nice, but kids don't need that.

2/ a wallpaper that is a little more appealing to kids. such as this one:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... tedIndex=1

Maybe a stupid question, but if you run the browser as spot, you cannot corrupt your system (if you don't get access to anything as root).

And you may be proud that this is puppy linux, so a Puppy Linux name/logo on the wallpaper is absolutely needed.

Volhout

[Volhout]

@wizard,

One thing that I missed. I tried to work with what you have available in plank, and this could work, but the volume control function keys on the keyboard must work, since there is not retrovol access. Not sure if all laptops have the same function keys, but at these pc they are at F1 (mute) F2 (vol down) and F3(vol up).

I sure hope you can finish this major project before december 2022..

Volhout

[wizard]

@Volhout

statistical data on screen may be nice

More than nice, it's your first line troubleshooting tool, might reduce it some, but would advise leaving.

you run the browser as spot, you cannot corrupt your system

Very little chance and easy to recover if an issue does arise.

tried to work with what you have available in plank

Don't know what "plank" is.

Bottom tray now has volume control and background changer, added some images from the site you linked.

I sure hope you can finish this major project before December 2022..

Bet I can.

wizard

DTcloudpup.png (243.92 KiB) Viewed 880 times

[Volhout]

Nice....

The wallpaper has a dog in it... a real puppy...

"plank" was what you explain is the bottom tray. I recall there is in linux a program called "plank" that creates something like your bottom tray, also has a 3D mode like the earlier Apple MAC OS (Apple now also uses a flat iconset). But this is fine. The simpler the better.

You are using the Neon iconset for the icons ? They are a bit vague (low contrast) against the dark grey tray in the picture you sent. Maybe better visible on a real monitor ?

Volhout

P.S. whenever you have something for me to try, I am eager to.
P.P.S. (tested with Bionic) When I boot USB, and use puppy installer to install onto SD card, the PC boots from SD card. So apparently the puppy installer can write a bootable image to SD card, and Rufus and Pendrive Linux can not. That is particular good news, since SD card is nicely hiddedn (does not stick out). And I have quite some of these in 2G, 8G and 16G. Saves a lot of money...

[dancytron]

Here's a link to all the Chrome/Chromium command switches. Some of them might come in handy, including some kind of kiosk mode.

https://peter.sh/experiments/chromium-c ... -switches/

[snoring_cat]

Hi Volhout,

Looks like a good minimal puplet. I built one similar to this, but also added

• qpdfview

• Zoom

• guvcview (useful when sharing desktop, and still want to see video)

• Shortcuts to things like Google Docs, Blackboard, Etherpad

• Firewall Setup

Some notes

• To store your network configurations for school, you can hard code AP information into /etc/simple_network_setup/connections.

• If you boot with "pfix=ram", you can prevent students from using savefiles (if they manage to create one)

• You can easily block access to websites you want to blacklist by adding lines to your /etc/hosts file that look like "127.0.0.1 dontgothere.com"

• I don't use Chromium, but you might want to verify that all proprietary/DRM/EME media players are installed by testing video playback at castlabs

• Menu options to websites (like to Google Docs) start Chrome in incognito, and uses a Chrome profile and cache dedicated to that menu option. It helps prevent leaking login information between Chrome Windows.

Glad to hear you got the SD Card reader to run your puplet. I couldn't find a good SD card adapter to test with.

Here are some older screenshots of my similar puplet

base1.jpg (59.98 KiB) Viewed 839 times

base2.jpg (60.04 KiB) Viewed 839 times

[Clarity]

Earlier someone mentions "Remove drive icons" in FP64

• Click Menu>Desktop>JWMDesk>Icon Manager>Checkboxes to suit your needs

Hope this is helpful

[Volhout]

@wizard,

Thank you for doing all this work . Really appreciate it. Looking forward to the test version...

@dacytron,

Thanks for the link to all configuration settings. Always handy. Not sure how much of this @wizard already has preconfigured. But it will help me.

@clarity,

Tried this on a frugal install of bionic(64), and there the drive icons kept coming back, regardless the settings in that menu. There are 2 where you can configure what icons you want, and there is some overlap (in bionic) If you selected "bare desktop, no icons" the drive icons stopped showing up.
Maybe Fossa is better in that perspective.

Generic:

Does anyone know how to write Fossa iso to a USB stick ? For bionic I successfully used Pendive (Universal) installer (windows) but that does not have a special entry for Puppy Fossa (it does for Bionic). When I use the Bionic entry, and make it write the Fossa iso, that does not work. After some reading, I saw that most recent suggestions are to use dd (or win32diskimager). But I would expect the file to be an image file (.img), not an iso.
Tried it, failed. I could not find info on this forum either. Not under "mainline puppy distro's" under Fossa, not under "Beginners Help". I found something on "House Training", even one that contains a video, but that is all old stuff, mostly discussions on how to (NOT) do it, and not specific to Fossa. Maybe an idea to make the current method clear and make it sticky, so it is the topmost entry in the subforum.

[Volhout]

@snoring-cat,

Thank you for the suggestions. But I think (looking at your screenshots) you over-estimate the capabilities of 6 year old kids (I mean the kids I do this for). Generic, these are children of fugitives, they hardly speak anything other than their native tongue (they learn to speak Dutch, our native language) but do not even speak English. Neither do their parents (I have seen parents re-type text on their phone and google translate it so they know what the message is). So I need to make a user manual for this pup based on icons and screen dumps. And remove everything from the pup that is confusing.

Not that these people are not intelligent (well, some are not, but many are) but there is a big language barrier.
This pup should simply be a window to the school apps. Nothing more.

But I do thank you for being involved. I can use any help I can get.

[snoring_cat]

If language translation is an issue, trans_tray might be something of value. viewtopic.php?p=29843

Off-topic. Have you seen this TED talk about when an internet computer was first introduced to a village?
WOW!

If you don't want to watch the whole video, I suggest the following times
9:30 - 13:00
15:30 - 16:20

[wizard]

@Volhout

Here is a link to the first beta of Cloudpup-Fossa64. Still more to do, but want some feedback at this point.
EDIT: see here for latest release viewtopic.php?t=4816

This is old beta
https://sourceforge.net/projects/cloudp ... o/download

Had some unanticipated remaster issue that slowed me down. To keep us on the same page and avoid Puppy version errors you should do your installing, etc. only when running fossapup64 9.5.

I have not tested installing to sdcard yet, so just do a USB install for now. You'll find the top tray is normally hidden, but will appear when the mouse is moved over it. Encourage you to set the bios on the machines to legacy boot.

Use unetbootin, (702 used in testing) to create your USB. Don't use Puppy utilities since they will not install the extra files on the ISO.

I will send you a pm with instructions on how to access the admin setup. Do not want that info here in open forum for obvious reasons.

wizard

[snoring_cat]

Hi Volhout and wizard,

I took a look at the ISO you posted. Looks pretty good and clean. I especially like the extra wallpapers.

I think you are missing the fdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs file. That might also explain why I was having network setup issues.

Earlier, I created a similar ISO. My ISO is about 500 MB smaller than yours. I understand that you are hiding default Puppy Apps and installed apps like XFE. But I didn't see how that compensated for about 500MB more. (I took into account that Chromium was installed). If you would like, you can have my Fossa64 ISO, which is pristine, and then you can add you Cloud tweaks to it. That would save you time removing bloat.

Another suggestion is to pre-populate Chromium's speed dials. Links to the school's website, online translation and speech (e.g. translate.google.com, etc.) might be useful.

[wizard]

@snoring_cat

Hi cat,

I think you are missing the fdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs file

During remaster both adrv and fdrv are merged into puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs, Did you try adding a fdrv to see if that fixed your connect issue?

A lot of the size is browser related, configuration, extensions, etc.

Keep in mind it's a beta, no stripping has been done, but even then it's going to to be large in order to achieve its goals. Plus, in this case function and delivery are more important than small size.

The other stuff is up to Volhout.

Thanks for the comments and taking a look at it.

wizard

[Volhout]

@wizard,

Unfortunately we had visitors last night, and I was not able to immediately test your iso. I am very eager to do so.

I have started downloading, but today I still have to work. Despite that it is Christmas night (the church..), I hope to find time to do some preliminary testing. Tomorrow the family is here, and the house is crowded with kids. Expect most of my testing to be performed 26'th. I will report as soon as I have feedback.

Thanks for the tip for Unetbootin. I used that in the earlier puppy days almost exclusively, but for some reason changed over to Pendrive Installer.

I am not sure how I can ever repay you for the effort you took for this project. This is amazing dedication to puppy and the school kids.
For now: thanks, thanks, thanks.... and

Merry Christmas wizard.

Volhout

@snoring-cat,
I watched the whole video as I learned from it, but when I told my wife (the teacher) she knew all this (and I think part of this video where used in one of her professional trainings). The whole idea of collective learning is embedded in our school system. Interesting was the minor remark made that they took quite a lot of effort to make sure the systems ran reliably in these remote locations (climate). That is also my main concern. How can I make sure they are working reliable... testing, testing...testing...I guess...

[wizard]

@snoring_cat

Hi cat,,

you can have my Fossa64 ISO, which is pristine

Is this just the standard or one you have stripped? What size is it?

Merry Christmas

wizard

[wizard]

@Volhout

Enjoy the time with your family and children, who will grow up all to soon. For many years my family celebrated not only in our home but in three other families homes. It was a whirlwind of celebration from which we all have fond memories.

The debt here is mine, I have received the help from our forum members for years and now a project like yours allows me to pay that debt forward.

I am in Oklahoma, USA, but through this forum learn much about others from all parts of the planet by our common interest.

Where are you in our world?

Merry Christmas Volhout and Merry Christmas to all who may read this

wizard

[Volhout]

@wizard,

Just found an hour to play. Install went perfect with your guidance.
Booted right to the desktop, but after a popup showed X was not a terminated correctly. After few seconds this popup disappeared.

- mouse works
- touchpad works
- video 1920x1080, great
- galculator works
- SNS used to get to WIFI, clicked default at firewall setting.
- wallpaper setter works
- setting survive reboot ... great

- opened chromium, went to the school website , and did some preliminary browsing. All worked well. Even instruction video's played. But no sound.

- retrovol: shows HDMI audio channels (not PCM audio). This needs fix.
with your help text, went to root and opened alsamixer and selected PCM. At first it seemed not to work, but maybe I was impatient. After few seconds (maybe some writing to USB later ..?) it shows the faders I would expect in retrovol.

- now it goes wrong.
opened chromium again, and wanted to play youtube to test sound. Chromium doesn't play any youtube anymore. It stalls (no response). When I close chromium (takes a while) and open retrovol, there are no faders at all any more, empty window.
I guess my changes in aslamixer where incorrect....

My time is up now, I get to prepare for church. Next I will try to re-install, and start blank again, and try something different.

Merry Christmas wizard,

Volhout

[wizard]

@Volhout

So I need to make a user manual for this pup based on icons and screen dumps. And remove everything from the pup that is confusing.

One of the objectives for Cloudpup is to isolate the user from the underlying OS/file system.
That means no access to any file manager and avoid any app with a "File" menu. I think the best and easiest format for your help files is create them in LibreOffice Write, save as .doc files, then export them as .pdf files. In use, the PDF files will be viewed in the Chromium browser, so no extra apps are needed. Here's how I do it:

-fossapup64 9.5
-LibreOffice Write - images can just be drag and drop from Rox
-use DejaVu Serif font since it scales well between apps
-Take a Shot - to grab screen, window, or region screen shots
-place help files in the /root/HELP directory

Here's a Internet Setup.doc file you can use as an example

Internet-Setup-cp.doc

(77 KiB) Downloaded 43 times

Here's a screen of that as a pdf that will be in next release, note the HELP folder in the Bookmarks bar.

wizard

helppdf.png (82.96 KiB) Viewed 928 times

[wizard]

@Volhout

Just found an hour to play

You did not specify what computer you were using.

wizard

[Volhout]

@wizard,

Using a Dell E7450 (i5 processor Intel 5500 graphics, 8G ram)

I solved the sound problem. I could open alsawizard, then select sound card, then select PCM, and close alsawizard.
Not the correct sound is set, and persistent.

Chromium opens quite slow first time. Can be 15 seconds or so. I was tempted to think I misclicked and open it again.

I notice, when I open Chromium, that it opens several PID's (minimal 4) that consume easily 800Mbytes of RAM.

After playing on youtube a bit, I get a popup stating I should "FREE UP SPACE TO CONTINUE" and close sites. I have onloy 1 site open.
When I play a video (youtube) and then click close sites on that popup, chromium closes, the video window (chriomium) is closed, but the audio continues to play.
That is nasty. For the rest it works rather well (*) but this popup should not appear. There is plenty of memory left (6Gbyte or so).
Not sure how to continue.

When Chromium is closed, the 4 PID's don't get killed. They remain, and keep consuming memory (cached?). Second time chromium opens faster.

[wizard]

@Volhout

I notice, when I open Chromium, that it opens several PID's (minimal 4) that consume easily 800Mbytes

Normal, though a little high compared to my install (same as yours), but mine releases when closed, could not duplicate that.

FREE UP SPACE TO CONTINUE

Check your savefile size, my initial size has 90mb free and after playing a youtube movie for an hour still at 90. Did you add any Chromium extensions or apps? The savefile is 256mb to help keep the ISO small, but you can increase it. Chromium's cache is set to erase whenever you close it. The audio continuing to play is probably related to running out of savefile space or it could also happen if you had more than one instance of the browser open.

wizard

[Volhout]

@wizard,

save file had only 1 meg free.
you cannot see the save file level in the statistics on screen right ? went to resizer and increased with another 256Mb.
chromium popups disapeared.
but still I think chromium does something to save file

when chromium closes youtube tab, that is not instantaneous. takes few seconds to close. is this similar for you.

anyway it is more responsive now we have more save file.
should I check what filled uo the save file and if yes, what method do you use. Becuase i have lost 90Mbyte and don't know why.

Regards,

Volhout

This project realy fascinates me, so I do some testing even on Christmas morning...

[wizard]

@Volhout
HO HO HO

you cannot see the save file level in the statistics on screen right ?

fixed in next release

I use Menu>Filesystem>Gdmap to watch the root and Resize Personal Storge File, but I don't see any growth with Chromium in normal use. You will see changes when adding extensions and configurations. Next release will also limit Chromium to one instance.

On my i5, 8gb ram laptop Youtube closes instantly. To get a better read on this, start fresh, use the tools above to get some benchmarks, then start your changes and check along the way.

wizard

[Volhout]

Hi wizard,

I will start new tomorrow. I can think of 2 possible causes for the increased save file.
1/ the misfit I caused before I had audio working.
2/ the school app opens teams. Teams may be an extension that is eating up the 90 Mbyte.

Volhout

[dancytron]

Are you running in pupmode 13 (changes in ram until saved manually, on timer, or on exit) or are changes being sent to the save file in real time?

[Volhout]

@wizard,

I recreated the save file memory prpblem. Clean start from iso file. Set up SNS for WIFI.
U took the laptop (on WIFI) to the kitchen (less good WIFI). Lost WIFI (no IP adress in statistics anymore).

SNS does not reconnect (could not achieve it using the reconnect function in SNS), so I power down, power up.
After this WIFI reconnected. But the save file had 83MB free.

Played around on different pages with Chromium on bad WIFI on several pages, and the save file continuously grows.

Is it possible that SNS (or other programs) create log files that continuously grow ?

Next I will try Frisbee. Used to use puppy in the earlier days (when SNS did not exist) and Frisbee was very good at reconnecting on airports and in hotels on my travels.

Question: what folder do you look at in Gdmap for the save file ? I checked /home but that did not grow in the same rate, actually /home says around 130MB.

Regards,

Volhout

P.S. If I use a 8GB SD card, is there any objection for a 7GB save file ? (or the 4GB FAT32 limit) ? Does it slow down the system.
P.P.S. is dacytron right that there are save file writes while running, not only at shutdown ? I do see slow downs while using it occasionaly. And this PC is so fast for puppy, that is strange.

[Volhout]

@wizard,

Using Frisbee (frisbee operates much more stable that SNS in my house). When playing with Chromium, the save file continuously increases.
I focus on forum pages and youtube only since that is something that is also accessible for you.
What I see is that every time I open a video some 3 Mbyte is lost, and is nor really returned when I close the video.
I use "Hello from Adele" for testing (and other songs from her).
Opening Chromium and closing it returns some of the memory claimed (re-open resize save file each time). I also notice there sometimes after a minute memory is returned.

When I do a start I restart with the save file size at shut down. But when I restart Chromium after a restart it immediately claims another xx mbyte (last time 40Mbyte).
Restart again, and again memory is claimed. The save file shrinks each time. And when the save file fills it goes progressively faster. And memory is not returned anymore when closing Chromium.

Please indicate where I can help to investigate this "memory leak".

Regards,

Volhout

P.S. When in low save file situation, chromium offers to restore old pages since it was shut down incorrectly. Where does it store these pages ? Maybe that is the problem.

[wizard]

@Volhout

what folder do you look at in Gdmap for the save file ?

root

P.S. If I use a 8GB SD card, is there any objection for a 7GB save file ? (or the 4GB FAT32 limit) ? Does it slow down the system.

Don't know, mine are all less than 1gb. It is generally considered best practice to keep it small and move everything out to /mnt/home. Chromium and browsers in general are the space hogs and our challenge is to work around that. Try using a 4gb and then work it over to see the result.

@dancytron has suggested a way to move all the browser files out of the savefile in this post viewtopic.php?t=4593 but haven't had any success yet. If you have time dan, we could use your help on this.

P.P.S. is dacytron right that there are save file writes while running, not only at shutdown ? I do see slow downs while using it occasionaly. And this PC is so fast for puppy, that is strange.

USB flash and SD cards only save when you click the Save button or on shutdown by default.