Cloud puppy, advise asked...

[Volhout]

I am not sure if you can help met, but I am looking for a way to support remote teaching in this time of Covid.

From my employer I have received a donation of a number of laptops without harddisk (physically removed) that I can use to help school kids (poor families) in this time where remote teaching is required.
The functionality they need is : web apps, and teams/zoom support.
I have done some reading, and chrome browser should support this fully.

But these are young kids, spread out over the city, so I would like to have USB stick OS that is not easy to break. With chrome browser.

I have thought about using puppy, without a save file. But that is not possible, since some information (like WIFI and logins) must be stored in persistent storage.

I remember there used to be a "browserpup" but that was ages ago.

Is there a current puppy that I can use for this purpose ?

I am asking this to have a "leap start" , normally I would take my time to make this all work, but I am on a deadline, after christmas I have to hand out the laptops, since the teaching starts.

Volhout

P.S. I looke at Porteus Kiosk Cloud, but Porteus won't let you change the WIFI parameters (it is targeted to KIOSK mode, where you know where the kiosk is).

[rockedge]

Interesting project. There are members on this forum that certainly can help with know-how and advice.

To gather some support, I will also mention your project in some different areas to see if we can generate some neuron stimulation.

[dancytron]

Is the problem needing to remember wifi network credentials or is it the Chrome user settings?

Either way, I think you can solve the problem by remastering or making another sfs file with the needed settings.

You can control where the Chrome user and cache settings go and either put them in /mnt/home or even remaster the Chrome user settings into the main sfs file. <will add link>

Chrome is a good tool for what you want because there is a lot of support out there to help people use it other than you.

[wizard]

Tell us the make and model of your laptops so we can choose an appropriate Puppy version.

wizard

[Volhout]

The laptops are Dell 7450's (i5) with 8gB ram.

About remastering: that can solve part of the problem, but not all. It may be a solution for the Chrome settings (I can optimize Chrome at my home, using my WIFI or wired ethernet). But not for the WIFI settings. Parents/Kids will take the laptops home, then they will enter the WIFI code of their home access point. But you don't want the parents to remaster again..

Volhout

[rockedge]

So we need to provide a feature that does network auto login at school but when out of range allows user input to connect to different WiFi network?

[Volhout]

Hi Rockedge,

Not really. The school applications are provided by an external company hosting them. The login at school is identical to the login at home. Only the access point is different. The login into the external companies website I can pre-program before remastering. The child's name is the user ID, the childs password to get into his section of the applications on the server is unknown to me, so I leave both childs name and childs password out of the remaster. That is something they have to type in every time they log in (is also the case at school).

I can pre-program the school access point SSID and password (since I know them) but cannot pre-program the parents SSID/passw.

So in the list of access point there must be one (or 2 if I add my home WIFI during system setup), but others must be added after remastering.

Do I make sense ? I may have mis understood the essence of your question.

Regards,

Volhout

[rockedge]

I think I understand better.

It would be possible to make a mechanism that if the machine finds it can not connect with the stored WiFi credentials, the system then prompts for a WiFi pass code. Once that is set the machine will auto connect at school and if at home will use those pass codes. NetworkManager does something like this. Like a cell phone which stores the successful connections and will recognize all of the stored connections so that when one is encountered the system will connect to that router using the stored credentials.

I think Frisbee can do this but not sure. Anyway if that sounds about right it would a matter of providing a mechanism that can save those unknown WiFi connections to add to those already saved in the remastered OS. So a way to hold onto these external WiFi credentials without interfering with those read-only hard copy ones.

Does this make any sense at all?

Will the students be saving any other data on "their" machine in a persistence manner?

[snoring_cat]

Hi Volhout,

This sounds like a fun project, and aligns perfectly for what Puppy LInux can do. I agree with wizard in that it would help if you know the specifications of the computers (e.g. 32/64 bit, amount of memory, laptop model, etc.)

I think you will not have a problem setting things up if you modify Puppy Linux to your likings

• Pick which applications to add to Puppy Linux (e.g. Zoom, Google Chrome)

• Use savefiles that are stored on the USB with Puppy Lnux that will contain WIFI AP, browser and app login credentials

If you do not want to use savefiles, not a problem. Puppy Linux can be told to remember multiple AP login information. For example, I put a bunch of my WIFI AP information inside my custom Puppy Linux directly. Then if I go to the library, work, friends house, etc. I automatically connect to their networks.

If you need help setting up a custom Puppy Linux distribution or want one created, you can private message me on this forum.

[wizard]

The OP's hardware can run almost anything. Rather than us reinvent the wheel, I would suggest trying Neverware's CloudReady which is a Chrome OS work-a-like. Run it from a 32gb USB like this:
https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-32GB-Ult ... B077VXV323 about $8 US. Small profile = less likely to be damaged.

If that doesn't work out, then we can run up a custom Pup. Several years ago I did one that only let the user run a browser, no menus, no task bar, reset everything at boot. The great thing about using the USB is the worst case fix is just replace it.

wizard

[williwaw]

If I understand the problem correctly, the student needs persistence only long enough to set up wifi configs?

question to all. can a savefile be made read-only? perhaps a script that changes permissions of an existing save can be executed on start up.

[Clarity]

Hello @Volhout
I could help here, as have a lot of experience. But, I have some questions about 'exactly' what you want to do? So, I start with questions?

IIRC, from what has been stated

• You have a number of gifted laptops given as a donation

• You are working with a school

• The school has a contract with a consulting firm delivering something

• You want a cloud connect solution for school use

Add any additional info you feel important that is not covered.

A few Questions

• Is this for general school use or is it for a classroom use or is it for students home use?

• If for the students, will the kids be taking these laptops home or using them at school?

• Is the consulting services at the school or is it outside of the school?

• Does the school already have a 'moderated' teacher-student relationship?

• Or is the consulting services merely class readings/quizzes?

• Will you be the full-time administrator of this technology solution?

• How does the school do things today?

I ask, to better understand the environment that is being addressed. PUP-DOGs "may" already have what you want?

If you diagram'ed this out, could you post what you foresee? (sometimes, a picture is worth a 1000 words if you dont want to answer questions)

[snoring_cat]

question to all. can a savefile be made read-only? perhaps a script that changes permissions of an existing save can be executed on start up.

willwaw,

I don't think you really need a savefile if it is only to be used to configure networking. The USB device is read-write.

• Boot puppy normally off of USB

• Have a Startup script check for a WIFI config file on the USB

• If that file is not found, and/or cannot connect to the network with that file, bring up a network configuration GUI

• Save new configuration to USB config file

That could be a solution for a no savefile solution. However, a savefile could help students to save website passwords, etc. as well as store home AP login info. By that rationale, read-write would be beneficial. For example, a student working with another student at their house would need to store another AP login. I apologize or not directly answering your question.

[snoring_cat]

The laptops are Dell 7450's (i5) with 8gB ram.

The good thing about these laptops is that they have an SD Card reader. You can run Puppy Linux off of one. SD Cards do not stick out, like a USB dongle. You get ruggedness from Dell's metal case, and ruggedness by not using dongles. Puppy Linux should also have Wifi drivers pre-installed for this Dell model.

[williwaw]

willwaw,

I don't think you really need a savefile if it is only to be used to configure networking.

you are correct.

Perhaps I have read too much into the OP request. I thought he wished the persistence to be limited, maybe such that the users do not fill up their save and need the laptop to be "serviced"?

Hope Volhout can clarify.

[Volhout]

hi wizard,

tried the Neverware Cloudready installer, but it refuses to install on a sandisk drive.

It says...
"Sandisk drives are not recommended. The next screen will become available once a valid USB drive is installed".

Never seen that before....

What is worse...I tried a Kingston drive, which it sees as a Sandisk....
Anyway, not getting anywhere yet...

Volhout

[Volhout]

All involved,

As to the other questions. These laptops are only being used while the kids are forced into remote teaching by the government regulations against Covid. This may last 2 weeks, or 2 months. When they get back to school the teacher will use the large digi-board screen in class.

So it is a very temporary solution. Since it is my wide's initiative, she (and I) will have to maintain these laptops. That is why I am looking for an OS that is as robust as possible. Kids will try to tinker with it, parents will (with all good intentions) try to connect it to their WIFI, and may even try to help the kids. That is why would be helped best with something that is read only (no save file).

That only the WIFI credentials can be adjusted, nothing else (after I remaster it with the correct presets). No browser caching, nothing.

I hope this explains.

Volhout

Oh, one final thing. I tried the internal card reader, and it won't boot any of the cards I have. I have different puppies, and even an ubuntu install SD card, and it won't boot from them. In general the SD cards boot up to the point where the SFS must be loaded. The "lubuntu 16.04.6" image on SD card gave a message that may shed some light. It mentions a unknown MMC device. So maybe the linux kernel does not support this MMC device. And syslinux does. If I uses a USB-SD card adapter external, most imaged cards boot.

[snoring_cat]

Hi again Volhout,

I have a Dell laptop with SD Card reader and will do some testing on it. Another cool featuer with SD Cards is tht they have a physical switch to turn the device read-only.

Let's assume you have Puppy, and stripped out all apps, but

• Google Chrome (could set to autostart in fullscreen mode)

• Zoom

• guvcview

• site blocker

• other security software

• Some cool wallpaper and theme

And Added menu entries to browser based cloud services such as

• Google Docs

• Blackboard

• Grammarly

Then the only outstanding thing to do is handle at-home network connectivity. Here are two options for that.

Option 1 After Puppy Linux boots, bring up a WIFI login screen where students pick their AP and put in its password.

Option 2 Automatically mount a separate small partition on the SDCard/USB drive that is writable. Only save wifi AP credentials in a file in this partition. Have the computer check this file to login to the home network. If the credentials file doesn't have settings to connect to the home nework, or there is a problem connecting, bring up the GUI in option 1. Save network settings to the credentials file for next reboot. (The file in question can be linked for /etc/frisbee/wpa_supplicant.conf)

[wizard]

@Volhout

You did not say if you tried installing cloudready from Windows or Linux. Also, you did not say if the install completed successfully, it takes 20 minutes, maybe more. I had problems installing from Puppy Linux, but did get installed from W10 (manual method). My install is on a 32gb Sandisk Blade USB, even though there are known issues with some Sandisk. Here is a post that may help you fix the issues, it references some formatting utilities.
https://cloudreadykb.neverware.com/s/ar ... installers

If this works out, you can configure your master, then make a image of it, then clone it to other USB's. Just off hand, I would use Rescuezilla for that task.

wizard

[dancytron]

All involved,
/snip
No browser caching,
/snip
Volhout

No browser caching is easy with Chrome and Chrome like browsers. You can control by the startup switches where the cache and the user profiles go and then either put them in a place that never gets saved (/tmp on old puppies, maybe still?) or delete them with a script periodically or on startup etc.

This sample has all the parameters and puts stuff in /mnt/home.

/usr/bin/google-chrome-stable --user-data-dir=/mnt/home/ChromeSettings/google-chrome/config --disk-cache-dir=/mnt/home/ChromeSettings/google-chrome/cache --disk-cache-size=10000000 --media-cache-size=10000000

[Volhout]

@dacytron

I think I could put that line of script in the .desktop file, and then cache to /tmp

I am currently testing with puppy bionic-64. The chrome browser (R70) is already compliant with the school apps and teams works (actually it works really well, better than on windows..hihi). I picked bionic since it is small (fast boot from USB) and still updated by Ubuntu.
Currently have a 1G save file, and I am trying to use the tools provided by the menu to set it up as I want it.
Only haven't found a way to make it into a single desktop (there are 3, kids will get confused when they accidentally hit desktop 2 or 3).

@wizard,
The neverware website suggests you use their installer (windows). I downloaded that installer and ran it and got the mentioned (blocking) text about Sandisk. So no progress at all. It simply refuses to continue.
Currently my windows laptop is out doing an update (3 hours already, and the disk icon is still lighting continuous) so no progress there..... Yesterday the virus scanner decided it wanted to do a full scan autonomously, and I was unable to work for 2 hours. Puppy is great.. it simply works.

[wizard]

@Volhout

See my reply above, try formatting the USB with one of the referenced utilities, then use the w10 manual method to install.

wizard

[Volhout]

@wizard,

Thanks, after formatting the drive with the HP tool, the installer still complains, but allows to proceed at risk.
That feature was not available before...

Volhout

[dancytron]

@dacytron

I think I could put that line of script in the .desktop file, and then cache to /tmp

I am currently testing with puppy bionic-64. The chrome browser (R70) is already compliant with the school apps and teams works (actually it works really well, better than on windows..hihi). I picked bionic since it is small (fast boot from USB) and still updated by Ubuntu.
Currently have a 1G save file, and I am trying to use the tools provided by the menu to set it up as I want it.
Only haven't found a way to make it into a single desktop (there are 3, kids will get confused when they accidentally hit desktop 2 or 3).

@wizard,
The neverware website suggests you use their installer (windows). I downloaded that installer and ran it and got the mentioned (blocking) text about Sandisk. So no progress at all. It simply refuses to continue.
Currently my windows laptop is out doing an update (3 hours already, and the disk icon is still lighting continuous) so no progress there..... Yesterday the virus scanner decided it wanted to do a full scan autonomously, and I was unable to work for 2 hours. Puppy is great.. it simply works.

In the .desktop file usually works or a separate bash script. You just have to test that it doesn't conflict with whatever wrapper script they are using to run as spot (if that applies to your setup). I've gotten it to work in lots of puppies and dogs, so post back if you have trouble.

[williams2]

haven't found a way to make it into a single desktop

There is probably a setting in jwmdesk.

Or you can edit the (hidden) file /root/.jwm/jwmrc-personal

Near the top of the file change 3 to 1

Code: Select all

<!-- Number of virtual desktops -->
<Desktops width="3" height="1"/>

It's also set in /etc/xdg/templates/_root_.jwmrc

To not show the pager on the bar, edit /root/.jwmrc-tray
and delete the line <Pager/>

[Volhout]

@william2,

Yip, that did it. Single desktop now.

@wizard,

Maybe there is something with Sandisk anyway...
The install went flawless (took slightly over 20minutes) and booted right away to desktop. Was forced at first power on to couple it to a google account, afterward could use "guest". Did not use that (some limitations), but it is an option.

However my experience is mixed. The appearance is nice, it has the right set of features, the apps worked, and teams worked. But I had 2 observations that scared me too much. acher
1/ Chrome asked to memorize passwords, which I did. I went to the school page, logged in as teacher, and checked if all worked. Then I logged off, went to the child portal, logged in as child, and was welcomed as child. But when I started some of the apps, my identity changed, and I was teacher again. I could even change my grades... So somewhere identities where swapped.
2/ After a while i wanted to erase history and cache, and did so with the functions in the browser. That took long.. 3 hours later I pushed the power button, because the laptop was still erasing (rotating wheel) and I ran out of patience. This may be the sandisk issue.

Anyway, until I have new USB sticks this one is on hold.

/tmp
I am not sure puppy wipes this clean. There is quite a lot in it. Anyway, time will tell...

[williams2]

To not show the pager on the bar, edit /root/.jwmrc-tray
and delete the line <Pager/>

[snoring_cat]

1/ But when I started some of the apps, my identity changed, and I was teacher again. I could even change my grades... So somewhere identities where swapped.

Whenever I have to use different accounts, or switch between them, I use different browsers. You might be able to get by with using incognito mode.

Code: Select all

run-as-spot google-chrome-stable --incognito

Have you ever noticed when you login to Gmail, your computer logs you in to all Google services, like Youtube...without you asking it to do such. The safest way to limit "cross contamination" (that is easy) is just to use different browsers and/or incognito mode.

2/ After a while i wanted to erase history and cache, and did so with the functions in the browser. That took long.. 3 hours later I pushed the power button.

Yes, savefiles on slow flash drives can take minutes versus seconds to save. To possibly eliminate caching, your could

• Have your profile and cache be stored in memory (e.g. via tmpfs) so that it isn't written to flash drive

• "run-as-spot google-chrome-stable --incognito --disk-cache-size=0"

Reflection
If students are running Puppy Linux without a savefile, then after shutdown, all caches, history, etc. will be gone. From a student's perspective, I don't think they will encounter the same multi-user logging problem in the browser, compared to you...a teacher.

[snoring_cat]

Also, these settings might be of relevancy

clear.jpg (50.46 KiB) Viewed 1168 times

run.jpg (52.7 KiB) Viewed 1168 times

[dancytron]

1/ But when I started some of the apps, my identity changed, and I was teacher again. I could even change my grades... So somewhere identities where swapped.

Whenever I have to use different accounts, or switch between them, I use different browsers. You might be able to get by with using incognito mode.

Code: Select all

run-as-spot google-chrome-stable --incognito

Have you ever noticed when you login to Gmail, your computer logs you in to all Google services, like Youtube...without you asking it to do such. The safest way to limit "cross contamination" (that is easy) is just to use different browsers and/or incognito mode.

You can use the "--user-data-dir=/mnt/home/PathToUserProfile" to give each user a separate .desktop file or script leading to a different Chrome user profile. That might help keep that stuff straight, especially if you hid the "teacher" one or even typed it in manually at the terminal.

It's security by obfuscation. The only safe way is to delete/don't ever save to disk/encrypt your whole Chrome user profile and resync with Chrome every time you log on.