KLV-Airedale-alpha Released for Experimentation and Improvement by the Puppy community

[bigpup]

If this is going to run as root user.

All the stuff needs to be able to run and operate as root.

If you are going to make it a run as a user.
Use sudo when needed, to run something as root.

Than decide on a specific way, and use it all the time.

This is going to affect the programs offered, to use in it, and how they are coded to operate.
Example:
Octoxbps will not run logged in as root
SFS Load will not run logged in as user weedog.

I guess, because this is using more software coded for Void Linux.
Normal boot needs to be as user weedog.

Is there a run-as-weedog command?

weedog, seems to be the only user name, autologin will use, besides root.
So I guess weedog is spot in this OS.

Note:
I sure do not want to use an OS, that I have to use sudo, in a terminal command, to run anything.
Even using run-as-spot is not something I like to do.
I download a software package and install it.
It should just run.
Is that not the idea behind using xbps?
Find it, download it, install it, and it runs.

[keniv]

@fredx181
Hi Fred,
Thanks for that. However when I rebooted wiakwifi did not start. I did check that the symlink was in /root/Startup and it was. I did wonder about what I thought might be an extra, second "wiakwifi" in your code (please see below).

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cd /root/Startup; ln -s /usr/local/bin/wiakwifi wiakwifi

.
I tried making the symlink both with and without the second "wiakwifi" but neither worked.

Regards,

Ken.

Hi Ken, the code should be correct, the "second" is the "target" (to create in /root/Startup) so not sure what's wrong at your end.

You did configure wiakwifi earlier ?

Yes I set it up before hand. It connects OK if I run it in a terminal.

I configured it to use eth0, not sure if it works as above (symlink in Startup) when configured to connect through wi-fi.

Mine is setup to use wlan0 so this might be the problem. I have rechecked everything I did while following your instructions and I think all is correct.

You may want to try adding another script in /root/Startup to see if the startup mechanism works anyway for you.

Can you suggest one that you think would definitely work.

Ooh, you little beauty, Fred! D'you know, I hadn't realised until this last few days just how much I rely on /root/Startup for so many things.

Above is a quote from @mikewalsh. He too seems to be able to get lots of things to start at boot up using /root/Startup so it looks as if its only me that can't.

Regards,

Ken.

[bigpup]

Does the script file have exec permissions?

[rockedge]

@bigpup

Screenshot_2021-12-16_12-02-17.png (433.94 KiB) Viewed 730 times

[bigpup]

Did not know if you wanted to go that SciFi, but it does look real good, does it not?

[fredx181]

You may want to try adding another script in /root/Startup to see if the startup mechanism works anyway for you.

Can you suggest one that you think would definitely work.

Yes, something like this:

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#!/bin/sh
echo "Startup works!" > /root/startupworks

Create in text-editor, put in Startup folder, save as, let's say "start_up" and make executable chmod +x /root/Startup/start_up
If there appears a file /root/startupworks with text "Startup works!" then it works, if not, you should go through the steps again of how to create the Startup mechanism, possibly you missed something then.

[fredx181]

Is there a run-as-weedog command?

Can you test attached 'run-as-user' ? (remove fake .gz, make executable and copy to /usr/local/bin)

run-as-user.gz

remove fake .gz, make executable and copy to /usr/local/bin

(2.8 KiB) Downloaded 32 times

It's modified run-as-spot but instead of spot it's using weedog user.
I had some success and some failure, e.g.
run-as-user octoxbps OK, no problems. EDIT: Nice find, btw, octoxbps !
Installed vlc with octoxbps, went fine, but next challenge: vlc won't run as root either, so did:
run-as-user vlc
Ok, vlc opens, but.. unfortunately no sound, perhaps has to do with pulseaudio that has to be started as weedog too ? don't know.

Btw, another thing, I logged in as weedog (did from tty2), to try if sound works (tried Parole, vlc), but.. NOT..., anyone can test that ?
Edit: how I did from tty2: Press ctrl+alt+f2 to get on tty2 > type weedog > enter > type password (= weedog) > enter

[rockedge]

@fredx181 I think you just need to add user weedog to the audio group
as root

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usermod -a -G audio weedog

or as weedog

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sudo usermod -a -G audio weedog

next fresh build from scratch on alpha5 will add the full user spot with a default password spot

[fredx181]

@fredx181 I think you just need to add user weedog to the audio group
as root

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usermod -a -G audio weedog

or as weedog

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sudo usermod -a -G audio weedog

next fresh build from scratch on alpha5 will add the full user spot with a default password spot

Yes, sure, sound works now ! Also I added weedog to some other groups: usermod -a -G audio,video,cdrom,disk weedog
Now also run-as-user vlc works with sound !

[rockedge]

@fredx181

To run VLC as root user:
in a terminal->

Code: Select all

sed -i 's/geteuid/getppid/' /usr/bin/vlc

Only need to do this once, until VLC is updated. Then apply again until next update.

[fredx181]

@fredx181

To run VLC as root user:
in a terminal->

Code: Select all

sed -i 's/geteuid/getppid/' /usr/bin/vlc

Only need to do this once, until VLC is updated. Then apply again until next update.

Yes, I know that, but never really liked it as is it's a dirty hack that won't persist if vlc is updated (as you said indeed).
The run-as-user method (or run-as-spot, if you created new build with spot inside) is more friendly IMO and can be used for other programs too, think of chrome, chromium (based) etc..

[rockedge]

true it's a hack and always in the long run (and short), run-as-spot or run-as-weedog are the much better idea. I've it quite successfully used run-as-spot in WDL-Void-jwm-rox builds from a while ago as well in Puppy Linux. Did some stacked commands (compounded) like a run-as-spot apulse firefox nicely in Bionic when firefox audio began it's weirdness. Just thought I'd mention it.

[keniv]

You may want to try adding another script in /root/Startup to see if the startup mechanism works anyway for you.

Can you suggest one that you think would definitely work.

Yes, something like this:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
echo "Startup works!" > /root/startupworks

Create in text-editor, put in Startup folder, save as, let's say "start_up" and make executable chmod +x /root/Startup/start_up
If there appears a file /root/startupworks with text "Startup works!" then it works, if not, you should go to the steps again of how to create the Startup mechanism, possibly you missed something then.

Thanks Fred,
As I am worried about running without a firewall I have stopped using the browser. Instead I opened the forum on my phone and manually copied the code. This idea fell apart when I could not type the hash symbol. Typing hash produces back slash but not vice versa. I could not find any symbol key that would type a hash. I had already setup the keyboard as a UK keyboard but this does not seem to be enough. The keyboard I have is an HP KB 0133 which is not in the list of keyboards. I don't remember ever having trouble setting up the keyboard to work properly. As an aside I also tried to move from double click to single click. It does not seem to matter how it's set it seems to require a double click. Anyway I opened Fossapup and made your "start_up" file and copied it to sda2. I then closed Fossapup and opened KLValpha3 and copied start_up from sda2 to /root/Startup then made it executable using

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chmod +x /root/Startup/start_up

I then rebooted KLValpha3, however, there was no file /root/startupworks with text "Startup works!" so it did not work. I had already checked the rest of your instructions when I was trying to get wiakwifi to start on boot up so I don't know whats wrong or what I'm missing. I've also had problems trying to delete some text files which I made so as I could transfer stuff between Fossapup and KLValpha3 as I was not using the browser. Told they could not be deleted because they did not exist! I have come to the conclusion that somebody, like myself, with very little knowledge/skill cannot usefully take part in this process. I will continue to follow the thread and may come back when we have a firewall which would make life easier. Thanks to you and the others who have tried to help me.

Regards,

Ken.

[wiak]

Octoxbps will not run logged in as root
SFS Load will not run logged in as user weedog.

I guess, because this is using more software coded for Void Linux.
Normal boot needs to be as user weedog.

I am pretty sure rockedge intends this distro to run by default as root user, just like most all other distros discussed on forum.

I believe what you say above has nothing per say to do with Void Linux - the DebianDogs are also fully multi-user capable and there is nothing different from Puppy when it comes to running applications as root user - some applications simply don't 'like' that and need special startup configs or workarounds.

For example, if you were to run xbps inside Puppy (which you can - it is available as a static compiled binary or can be compiled as rockedge has previously done on a Puppy sytem) I think you would find the exactly the same issue that, for example, Octoxbps would not run as root.

Certainly, many applications are being written by upstream developers that take the view that running as root is a security issue and thus make checks in their software to prevent them running as root. Chrome/Chromium and apps built using core parts of that are a good example of how tricky it becomes to run everything as root user; I'm not giving an opinion on that at all, just stating how it is. There is I am sure, however, nothing different about Void Packages to say Debian Packages in terms of whether they can run as root or not - octoxbps just happens to be one of the tricky ones. I don't know why they made it that way since xbps itself 'needs' to be run as root!!!

Funny thing is that running apps as user root seemed to be advantageous in that most everything just worked since root has permissions to do anything, but of course root does have 'dangerous' powers to delete or change files all over the system so forcing an app to be run as a normal user helps protect the system from root admin mistakes (because normal user doesn't have permissions over the whole system media and so on), but octoxbps given normal user controlled special rights to install but not proper root permissions (presumably because a malicious app being installed, which is from the Internet most usually, might be able to take over octoxbps processes and if running as true root user could do a lot of malicious damage to the system - installation is after all a dangerous activity in that you don't want a bad actor intervene with their own malware at that time instead).

Simpler reason than that though - most normal users do not have sudo permission on most Linux systems by default and thus could not use xbps itself and thus not install apps; the way octoxbps works allows normal users (without sudo rights) to install apps of their choice, so that is a big advantage.

On KLV, normal user spot (or weedog) can be made part of group allowed to use sudo; they can also be made part of a special 'wheel' group (this is standard Linux practice for multiuser permission setups) and as such not need to provide any passwords when doing admin work - that's how I set up my own systems.

[fredx181]

.... .... run as root or not - octoxbps just happens to be one of the tricky ones. I don't know why they made it that way since xbps itself 'needs' to be run as root!!!

Indeed very strange Someone must have made a mistake or...

[wiak]

@fredx181

To run VLC as root user:
in a terminal->

Code: Select all

sed -i 's/geteuid/getppid/' /usr/bin/vlc

Only need to do this once, until VLC is updated. Then apply again until next update.

I think Puppy must have had same problem trying to run VLC as root user did they not? And I guess above method is Puppy way of getting it to work. The put normal user into audio group method used by fredx181 would be the more 'correct' Linux way (Linux distros normally being designed for multiuser use). I suspect root user cannot, unfortunately, be made part of a group normally reserved for normal users that would allow root to run octoxbps though you never know without trying...!

[wiak]

@fredx181

To run VLC as root user:
in a terminal->

Code: Select all

sed -i 's/geteuid/getppid/' /usr/bin/vlc

Only need to do this once, until VLC is updated. Then apply again until next update.

Yes, I know that, but never really liked it as is it's a dirty hack that won't persist if vlc is updated (as you said indeed).
The run-as-user method (or run-as-spot, if you created new build with spot inside) is more friendly IMO and can be used for other programs too, think of chrome, chromium (based) etc..

I totally agree.

Good idea to create a spot user on next build I think rockedge since Puppy users expecting that name in their workarounds for similar issues maybe.

[wiak]

.... .... run as root or not - octoxbps just happens to be one of the tricky ones. I don't know why they made it that way since xbps itself 'needs' to be run as root!!!

Indeed very strange Someone must have made a mistake or...

I think what I later said is the likely reason Fred, since it does make sense:

Simpler reason than that though - most normal users do not have sudo permission on most Linux systems by default and thus could not use xbps itself and thus not install apps; the way octoxbps works allows normal users (without sudo rights) to install apps of their choice, so that is a big advantage.

A lot of posts crossing over at same time and last minute edits by me missed, sorry.

[rockedge]

@wiak

next fresh build from scratch on alpha5 will add the full user spot with a default password spot

[wiak]

This is what I normally use in build plug when making a WDL_Arch distro (be that for user spot or user weedog). Might work (or be close) to what you need here with KLV(?). Could probably temporarily just try this from the commandline (I haven't yet since on wrong system momentarily):

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# Give wheel group nopasswd sudo rights and create weedog as wheel group member
echo '%wheel ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL' | (VISUAL="tee -a" visudo) # wheel group added to sudo no password required
useradd -m -G wheel -s /bin/bash weedog  # weedog in wheel group so has elevated sudo permissions
printf "weedog\nweedog" | passwd weedog >/dev/null 2>&1 # Quietly set default weedog passwd to "weedog"
update-mime-database /home/weedog/.local/share/mime  # not sure if required
update-desktop-database -v /home/weedog/.local/share/applications  # not sure if required

Yeah, I'm not sure about these update mime and so on commands, but all worked in WDL_Arch build whether these commands did anything or not.

Probably important to add that I already arranged /etc/skel stuff and pulseaudio in the build plugin as follows:
Obviously, this next part will be very different since KLV using runit and WDL_Arch using systemd, but idea probably similar - just change for runit service requirements... easier said than done maybe Also, this second stuff may be hardly required or done in a different way already in your Void setups - since you are normally auto-logging in as root user and doing the pulseaudio bit there (with audio group for other users), whereas in WDL_Arch I often autologin as normal user (and only sometimes autologin as root).

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# Copy main configs to /etc/skel for all normal users later added
cp -af /root/. /etc/skel
mkdir -p /etc/skel/.config/systemd/user/default.target.wants /etc/skel/.config/systemd/user/sockets.target.wants
# enable systemd pulseaudio.service in /etc/skel for new users added 
ln -s /usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.service /etc/skel/.config/systemd/user/default.target.wants/pulseaudio.service
ln -s /usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.socket /etc/skel/.config/systemd/user/sockets.target.wants/pulseaudio.socket

[rockedge]

This is what works for me in the PLUG file at build or a script or on a terminal command line :

create user spot. When logged in as spot and the xfce4 desktop is started /home/spot will be populated with the default directories if they do not exist.

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# Give wheel group nopasswd sudo rights and create spot as wheel group member
echo '%wheel ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL' | (VISUAL="tee -a" visudo) # wheel group added to sudo no password required
useradd -m -G wheel -s /bin/bash spot  #spot in wheel group so has elevated sudo permissions
printf "spot\nspot\n" | passwd spot >/dev/null 2>&1 # Quietly set default spot

[wiak]

This is what works for me in the PLUG file at build or a script or on a terminal command line :

create user spot. When logged in as spot and the xfce4 desktop is started /home/spot will be populated with the default directories if they do not exist.

Code: Select all

# Give wheel group nopasswd sudo rights and create spot as wheel group member
echo '%wheel ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL' | (VISUAL="tee -a" visudo) # wheel group added to sudo no password required
useradd -m -G wheel -s /bin/bash spot  #spot in wheel group so has elevated sudo permissions
printf "spot\nspot\n" | passwd spot >/dev/null 2>&1 # Quietly set default spot

Yes, just tried it at terminal. Glad it works. I actually meant to refer to user 'spot' in previous post and had re-written it as above, but accidentally posted in the 'weedog' user variant...

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cat /etc/group | grep wheel

now shows users weedog and spot as part of that wheel group.

[wiak]

Just logged in to desktop as user spot and then used octoxbps to install my favourate hierarchical notepad app "cherrytree".

Thank goodness for that cos all my tech notes are in cherrytree format... as I've said before, cherrytree is 99% of my brain (memory).

It was a surprisingly small install (maybe I already installed sufficient dependencies or maybe KLV already had them).

[wiak]

Is there a run-as-weedog command?

Can you test attached 'run-as-user' ? (remove fake .gz, make executable and copy to /usr/local/bin)
run-as-user.gz
It's modified run-as-spot but instead of spot it's using weedog user.
I had some success and some failure, e.g.
run-as-user octoxbps OK, no problems. EDIT: Nice find, btw, octoxbps !
Installed vlc with octoxbps, went fine, but next challenge: vlc won't run as root either, so did:
run-as-user vlc
Ok, vlc opens, but.. unfortunately no sound, perhaps has to do with pulseaudio that has to be started as weedog too ? don't know.

Btw, another thing, I logged in as weedog (did from tty2), to try if sound works (tried Parole, vlc), but.. NOT..., anyone can test that ?
Edit: how I did from tty2: Press ctrl+alt+f2 to get on tty2 > type weedog > enter > type password (= weedog) > enter

That run-as-user method and script method to run apps as non-root user is fantastic. If you haven't downloaded that and followed the simple instructions Fred provided for use then I highly recommend it. I guess rockedge will be providing it ready to go in next build once his Internet connection is back up...

Is that from FatDog, prior to your modification Fred? If so, thanks also to James Budiono (jamesbond) and FatDog team since KLV is being build using forum community project components as this inclusion also illustrates. FatDog created lots of nice utilities as has DebianDog team (particularly fredx181).

Just tried run-as-user octoxbps (when logged in as root user): worked perfect!

I used it to install my favourite watch anything image viewer app called nomacs. Yes, I know, it is a huge app compared to the usual wee image viewer apps Puppyists generally use, qt5 libs and so on, but it plays anything webp, whatever and lots of fancy functionality - I'm afraid I can't help myself. Similarly I am a fan of okular for pdf manipulations now - really really really huge app but we use it in business because it has some table convert for spreadsheet use functionality that is unbelievable. I wouldn't use okular were it not for that need though. Older MasterPDFeditor is best tool for general pdf editing otherwise (but doesn't have that table capture to clipboard functionality). However, to be fair, okular can open tons of different readable file types - tons.

Of course I'm not advocating that massive apps such as these should be in KLV-airedale releases! Certainly not. But does demonstrate how well the package management system works - no issues despite the complexity and dependencies involved for such big applications. This system can be trimmed to Puppy size or used for enterprise computing work; no doubt lighter weight JWM/Rox and Openbox/tint2 variants will be released later - apart from the faster low-resource using desktop managers most of what is being developed for KLV-airedale will equally apply.

[bigpup]

Run-as-spot has been in Puppy Linux almost from the very start of the concept of even having spot user.
Not surprised it is is a lot of the operating systems on this forum.

I guess changing the run-as-spot script to be run-as-user is OK.

Just happy that there is now a run-as- in KLV-Airedale!!!

Just wonder if it should actually be a specific named user
spot
weedog
klvdog
ace
thor
rex
sam
rambo
watson
nova
star
oreo
zelda
taco
yoda
astro
spike
zed

[rockedge]

I have now a run-as-spot and run-as-weedog going. Logged in as root and using both I am using octoxbps as spot and palemoon as weedog while doing distro building as root. Nice experiment. Also using the CTRL-ALT-F2 (and CTRL-ALT-F1 to switch back) trick to be logged in a 2 different users 2 different desktops.......same machine.

All on a 2007 DELL VOSTRO 1500 laptop. Single core CPU, 798 M of RAM. Why because it connects to my cell phone easily via a $9.95 Wifi dongle from China.

So KLV-Airedale is performing really well on really new machines and doing quite well on some really old ones.

I would like a Wallpaper with a dark blue background that has an Airedale that appears to be jumping out of it. Like a Windoz stock background but the dog jumping out of the MicroPuppet window. This is a DESCRIPTION and not necessarily exactly what it should be based on. It's the idea.

I don't have the graphic talent to do it. Got the software and systems galore to do it...just not the know how to use it to the max.

[bigpup]

Well not exactly, but.
.

dog_jump_play.jpg (70.71 KiB) Viewed 681 times

[rockedge]

close and a good direction! Somehow blending the sci-fi with the dogs...hmmmmmmmm....always liked the Bionic pup.....

what if a "Borg" Airedale? I don't know exactly but I do like the springing Airedale but more of a side view like jumping diagonally out of the screen?

I kind of like this Sci-Fi background from bigpup as well.....how to blend the two?

Screenshot_2021-12-17_12-13-43.png (379.41 KiB) Viewed 661 times

[mikewalsh]

Now gone for a "cute-sy" look!! (All say "Ahhh...." )

Was trying for the 'Unity' look. I've stuck with the side "dock", but I never did like having the taskbar up top, so.....down the bottom it stays.

I know; it's too "icky" for words, ain't it??

Mike.

[peebee]

Another complimentary approach:
VoidPup32 ALPHA 17-Dec-21
viewtopic.php?p=44733#p44733