Next "Personal" technology frontier

[misko_2083]

It has no soul, so what it does depends on the purpose it's programmers task it with.

Let us suppose. But what kind of intelligence is this if it can't make decisions on its own? And more. Is it possible to consider a controlled robot (operator is hiding in the bushes with a remote control ), in fact, a robot?

The kind of intelligence capable of searching the best way to perform a task within the given parameters by means of repetition.
The remote controled robot is a robot too, with a simple design but stil a robot.
Mars rovers were remote controlled from Earth by receiving coordinates where to go.
But the software AI was bypassing the obstacles, rocks, ditches. It had a semi-autonomy.
What if humans aren't in fact humans (operator is hiding in the underground pushing buttons on a remote control)?
I'm not the best person to answer, but Backi knows that theory of operator very well.

[jamesbond]

One day those asteroids will be diverted to some poor countries
and the rich one's are going to invent a defence from such "defensive" systems to sell them.
Nothing personal in that technological terror, it's only business.

Sadly, you may right. It's called "protection racket" and it's every where around us, especially among those who can't defend themselves.

People are behaving irresponsible but really this home surveilance and privacy invasion tech are too scary.

Everything, brought to the logical conclusion, is scary, unless some sort objective morality is involved.

I'm not too familiar with the so called neuro-link or brain-to-machine tech but Elon Musk thinks it will be very personally attached to the many people's brains.
What is there more personal than inserting electrodes into brain.
Imagine you start thinking about cars and the virtual Tesla car dealer appears right next to you with words: "This brand new Tesla can be yours for ONLY $99,999"

It will not start like that. It will probably start like this:
"Brain pacemaker, improve your study performance?"
"Photographic memories?"
"Never forget anything ever again?"
All benefits with no downside.

Until it all turns to all downsides with no benefits.
But by then it's already too late.

People, what do YOU think about this? Can Sarah J. Connor find a soul in Cyberdyne Systems Model 101 ?

Come on Grey, you know better than that. We can't find souls in living, biological systems, so how can we expect to find anything there other than the dead, cold, silicon?

It has no soul, so what it does depends on the purpose it's programmers task it with.

And the purpose depends on those who creates it. It's not AI we should be afraid of, it's the people who creates (and controls) them. AI is just like a tool, it can be used for good or bad. Nuclear can be used to wipe out civilisations or can be used to power it. The only question we have to ask ourselves is - can we be trusted with that kind of power?

[Grey]

Come on Grey

OK. Let's go back to Space
A recent case. More or less "sane" article: https://www.sciencealert.com/a-chunk-of ... ce-station

And today cosmonauts and astronauts had to hide from a new threat. Russian cosmonauts Anton Shkaplerov and Pyotr Dubrov, as well as American astronaut Mark Vande Hei, took refuge in the Soyuz MS-19 spacecraft. A fragment of another satellite flew by and they returned to the station.

There are still 3 Americans and one German at the station. I do not know where they were, they probably temporarily closed in one of the compartments of the station.

It's good that so far the Progress ship's engines are working. Maybe soon people won't have to work there, but only hide

[misko_2083]

I'm not too familiar with the so called neuro-link or brain-to-machine tech but Elon Musk thinks it will be very personally attached to the many people's brains.
What is there more personal than inserting electrodes into brain.
Imagine you start thinking about cars and the virtual Tesla car dealer appears right next to you with words: "This brand new Tesla can be yours for ONLY $99,999"

It will not start like that. It will probably start like this:
"Brain pacemaker, improve your study performance?"
"Photographic memories?"
"Never forget anything ever again?"
All benefits with no downside.

Until it all turns to all downsides with no benefits.
But by then it's already too late.

That's how the internet started. Later turned out to be global surveillance.
And Google's "free" e-mail. Nothing is free there is always a catch.

Come on Grey

OK. Let's go back to Space

That's one hell of a professional deformation.
Grey, you appear like some sort of a rocket scientist.
There is a saying: "ко о чему, баба о уштипцима".
No matter what the subject is, grandma always talks about fritters. Her favourite subject.
Уштипци (lat. Uštipci)

[Grey]

That's one hell of a professional deformation.

I, jamesbond and Putin have already told you above that AI is bullshit And I'm worried about the people in orbit. And if something suddenly falls on the planet?
By the way, have you watched or remember the TV series Dead Like Me ? The main character was killed on June 27, 2003 (Mir drowned in 2001 ) by a toilet seat from the Mir space station, which was descending from orbit at that moment. Soviet postage stamp (this is not a toilet, but a Manned Maneuvering Unit ):

There is a saying: "ко о чему, баба о уштипцима".

We have it like this: "кто о чём, а вшивый о бане" (who is talking about what, and person with the lice is talking about the bath)

[jamesbond]

OK. Let's go back to Space

LOL Absolutely

A recent case. More or less "sane" article: https://www.sciencealert.com/a-chunk-of ... ce-station

Thanks for the link. It's a nice read.

And today cosmonauts and astronauts had to hide from a new threat.

This is not the same as the fragment of the Chinese satellite? Another one???

It's good that so far the Progress ship's engines are working. Maybe soon people won't have to work there, but only hide

Another alternative is to move to higher orbit. Any idea why the station has to be at 400km? Why not double it, or triple it (or any height, as long as we're out of the trajectories of these LEO trash)? It may take a while but I'm quite sure a few Progress engines attached to it can do the job.

Or - perhaps a new solar array which power an electromagnet against that of Earth's magnetic field can slowly push it up - although I'm not sure which will be more efficient, fuel-wise.

The only downside I can see is that going up might take a little longer, so those Dragon crew will have to hold their water (or bowel) a bit longer if another leakage happens ... but that's why they undergo astronout training, right ?

That's how the internet started. Later turned out to be global surveillance.
And Google's "free" e-mail. Nothing is free there is always a catch.

You have no argument from me

That's one hell of a professional deformation.

I, jamesbond and Putin have already told you above that AI is bullshit

Most of what people call "AI" today isn't AI at all. Over the years people have invented smart algorithms for recognising certain patterns, (voice recognition, computer vision, etc); and these algorithms can give the impression of "artificial intelligence". I was quite impressed myself when I learn that modern pocket cameras can recognise faces and smiles - until I see the algorithm. Same can be said for car number plate recognition, etc. Don't get me wrong, these are very clever algorithms, but they aren't even close to being "intelligent" when you know easily fool them if you know how the algorithm works.

The real "AI" is still the artificial neural network (ANN), a device that can learn "patterns" and later be used to "recognise" and classify objects based on the patterns that it recognised. As far as I know, not much progress since 1970s and 1980s. They have better and faster "learning" algorithms, and we do have faster computers today, but the problem faced back then still plagues us right now.

Basically, "learning" is the most difficult and time consuming phase of AI development; and all AI requires human help to learn (otherwise they will get stuck in a local minima or maxima and continously draw the wrong conclusion). That is, of course, in addition to massive computing power.

So while the "model" (the result of the AI learning) can be installed in portable devices (robots, androids, drones, etc), these devices won't be "self-learning" and "self-adapting" anytime soon. They're just as static as your phone: you need to install software update to "adapt".

But the main interest of AI is that it is self-learning and self-adapting. Otherwise, that the difference between AI and advanced statistics? In fact, I do think that most of what people call "AI" is nothing more than finely-tuned statistical algorithms ... But statistics doesn't sell, because everybody (thinks that they) know statistics. However, "AI" sounds cool, and hence, sells more

And I'm worried about the people in orbit. And if something suddenly falls on the planet?
By the way, have you watched or remember the TV series Dead Like Me ? The main character was killed on June 27, 2003 (Mir drowned in 2001 ) by a toilet seat from the Mir space station,

Wow. There is unlucky and then there is unlucky.
Didn't they do a controlled de-orbit of Mir?
Must be a loose components ...

There is a saying: "ко о чему, баба о уштипцима".

We have it like this: "кто о чём, а вшивый о бане" (who is talking about what, and person with the lice is talking about the bath)

I think in English we say is as "the pot calling the kettle black".
I don't know the equivalent of Misko's idiom in English, though, although I think I get what you mean

[Grey]

This is not the same as the fragment of the Chinese satellite? Another one???

Another and a third on the way. Antony Blinken has already accused a certain country (the name begins with R ) of testing missiles against satellites.

And when the other (country name begins with A ) SM-3 anti-missile destroyed the USA-193 military spacecraft at an altitude of 247 kilometers, it was for the sake of science and democracy. And the ASM-135 ASAT anti-satellite missile, launched from an F-15 fighter, shot down the Solwind scientific satellite at an altitude of 555 kilometers. More goodness

[jamesbond]

Another and a third on the way. Antony Blinken has already accused a certain country (the name begins with R ) of testing missiles against satellites.

And when the other (country name begins with A ) SM-3 anti-missile destroyed the USA-193 military spacecraft at an altitude of 247 kilometers, it was for the sake of science and democracy. And the ASM-135 ASAT anti-satellite missile, launched from an F-15 fighter, shot down the Solwind scientific satellite at an altitude of 555 kilometers. More goodness

I thought we're done with the cold war since we have democracies on both sides of the pond, but apparently the blame game never stops, hey
At this rate, do you think we'll be able to seed the galaxy before we extinguish ourselves?

[Grey]

democracies on both sides

Democracy is common, plus Christians here and there (yes, Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox, but Christ is common to all). It's good. The other thing is bad - plans for space are also common (tourism)

Three days ago, Roscosmos decided to make a suborbital spacecraft for tourist flights into "space". The ship can be used for space tourism and "high-altitude parachute jumps" The participants of the flight will be able to wear spacesuits "outside the sealed capsule, directly in open space." The ship will be able to stay in zero gravity for about three minutes. At the same time, the maximum speed of the ship during the descent down due to the design will not exceed 1 km/s.

It is assumed that space tourism will become available to a large number of people in the next 20-30 years. But they forgot to specify - for a large number of RICH people

Negative impact on the atmosphere due to frequent but useless flights? All sides don't care.

Prices in 20 years are still unknown Right now, the cost of a flight to the ISS is about $50 million.

[misko_2083]

There is a saying: "ко о чему, баба о уштипцима".

We have it like this: "кто о чём, а вшивый о бане" (who is talking about what, and person with the lice is talking about the bath)

I think in English we say is as "the pot calling the kettle black".
I don't know the equivalent of Misko's idiom in English, though, although I think I get what you mean

The meaning is like someone is talking about a subject they are always talking about, hence it is highly predictable - so what's granny talking about? Fritters again!
Or "вашљив о купању".
@Grey Бане?, the first association is a nickname for people named Бранимир.
But we have an archaic verb "бањати се" for having a bath.
The meaning ia the same as the verb "купати се".
Actually we usually have a couple of words for the one same thing.
The root is word бања which is a spa town. We have a lot of those spa settlements, some are from the time of ancient Rome.

democracies on both sides

Democracy is common,

The modern slave-owning countries with an illusion of democracy on all sides.
The truth is they all use tricks and force to make you do what the deciders have decided you must do.

Grey are you collecting postal stamps?
That one was probably the last one from the Soviet Union.
I have some space themed Soviet stamps from 60's, 70's and 80's.

[Grey]

Grey are you collecting postal stamps?

I've collected stamps in the past. There's still something left.

Most of the stamps I have are not Soviet, but Mongolian. Монгол Шуудан (Mongol Post). My uncle worked in Mongolia for a long time, so I had a lot of relevant stamps.

I liked that these stamps were of various shapes: triangular, rhombic, square, rectangular. They depicted many animals and cars.

But most of all there were stamps with dinosaurs (many dinosaur skeletons were found in Mongolia) and spacecraft (not very many astronauts were found in Mongolia ).

On these stamps you can see a lot of unique equipment that has already been destroyed. For example, Kosmonavt Yuriy Gagarin (Soviet space control-monitoring ship).

Here are 50 stamps on the theme of space:

[misko_2083]

Nice collection.
I used to collect them for some time.
Have stamps from all over the world.

[backi]

It`s about total Control.
The Pharmaceutical-Medical-Monetary Block already has something in the Pipeline, I'm quite sure.

Because who is supposed to monitor the "New World Order" (The "Beast System"-666), if not (AI)logarithms?
A small Chip and not a single Sheep is lost,....... so simple....... but also ingenious Tactic/Technologie.

[misko_2083]

It`s about total Control.
The Pharmaceutical-Medical-Monetary Block already has something in the Pipeline, I'm quite sure.

Because who is supposed to monitor the "New World Order" (The "Beast System"-666), if not (AI)logarithms?
A small Chip and not a single Sheep is lost,....... so simple....... but also ingenious Tactic/Technologie.

Backi we can just pay someone to take the vaccine instead of us.
Look at that Slovenian that received a record 23 shots of covid-19 vaccines for money in the name other people.

To receive the corona vaccine in Slovenia, it is enough to show a health insurance card with no photos.

[backi]

@misko_2083 wrote:

Backi we can just pay someone to take the vaccine instead of us.
Look at that Slovenian that received a record 23 shots of covid-19 vaccines for money in the name other people.

To receive the corona vaccine in Slovenia, it is enough to show a health insurance card with no photos.

This Kind of "Business" will be opted out.....sooner or later...if we are all finally "marked/chipped" with some Kind of nano Chips implemented/implanted into our Body..... chained/connected/enslaved permanently to the Blockchain (The Beast System)......which is the Goal....(wearing The "Mark of the Beast"---666.....)

Are Covid Passports and the sooner or later implemented/implanted (Nano) Chips the " Mark of the Beast"?

Do your own Research.

Wish you a nice Day!

[Grey]

just pay someone to take the vaccine instead of us.
Look at that Slovenian that received a record 23 shots of covid-19 vaccines for money in the name other people.

This method worked fine in 1984 By the way, did you not see this short issue of Yeralash (a humorous TV magazine) in your childhood-youth? This issue in 1984 could still be shown in Yugoslavia.

The essence there is exactly the same: a cunning pioneer decides to "become a capitalist" and for various "gifts" agrees to take vaccinations instead of all schoolchildren. At the same time, in the best traditions, he scares everyone, saying that the needle on the syringe is HUGE. Bottom line: everyone got sick (epidemic) except him, and he can't sit down because his ass is swollen:

[rcrsn51]

Do your own Research.

From where? The Facebook Journal of Medicine?

[backi]

@rcrsn51 wrote:

From where? The Facebook Journal of Medicine?

It seems Ignorance is Bliss.
I don`t know under which Rock you are living..........but.....have a look here:

From "Times of Israel":
https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-micr ... -remotely/

With microchip implant, doctors can administer meds remotely
Israeli pharmaceutical giant Teva is teaming up with a US tech firm in the first-ever deal to use biochips to deliver pharmaceutical dosages

Will microchip implants be the next big thing in Europe?
Excerpt:

Thousands of Swedes have been pioneering the use of futuristic microchips that are implanted under the skin of the hand.

The technology is used for everyday tasks like accessing your smartphone, opening the front door or setting an alarm.

Those behind the microchips — the size of a rice grain and implanted via a syringe — are working to access other parts of Europe.

https://www.euronews.com/next/2020/05/1 ... -in-europe

A lot more to find on the Web...... if you are able and willing to do your own Research.
Have a nice Day!

B.t.W:
I am not a Facebook User.

[misko_2083]

just pay someone to take the vaccine instead of us.
Look at that Slovenian that received a record 23 shots of covid-19 vaccines for money in the name other people.

This method worked fine in 1984 By the way, did you not see this short issue of Yeralash (a humorous TV magazine) in your childhood-youth? This issue in 1984 could still be shown in Yugoslavia.

The essence there is exactly the same: a cunning pioneer decides to "become a capitalist" and for various "gifts" agrees to take vaccinations instead of all schoolchildren. At the same time, in the best traditions, he scares everyone, saying that the needle on the syringe is HUGE. Bottom line: everyone got sick (epidemic) except him, and he can't sit down because his ass is swollen:

Thanks for sharing, I don't think I saw it before. There were only two channels available and Yugoslavia had own TV programs for kids.
The sketch depicts an old trick of the elite to use or create a problem and then offer a solution which always goes in their advantage.

@misko_2083 wrote:

Backi we can just pay someone to take the vaccine instead ocrissisf us.
Look at that Slovenian that received a record 23 shots of covid-19 vaccines for money in the name other people.
To receive the corona vaccine in Slovenia, it is enough to show a health insurance card with no photos.

This Kind of "Business" will be opted out.....sooner or later...if we are all finally "marked/chipped" with some Kind of nano Chips implemented/implanted into our Body..... chained/connected/enslaved permanently to the Blockchain (The Beast System)......which is the Goal....(wearing The "Mark of the Beast"---666.....)

Are Covid Passports and the sooner or later implemented/implanted (Nano) Chips the " Mark of the Beast"?

Do your own Research.

Wish you a nice Day!

@Backi you think some crisis will eventually result in implementation of a new financial system.
One would assume there would have to be a hyperinflation first to remove the old one and install a new one.

[backi]

@misko_2083 wrote:

@Backi you think some crisis will eventually result in implementation of a new financial system.

Yes ....(asymmetrical Warfare) among others .....this is what Covid---Vaccines---- implemented/Implanted Chips is/are about......in my humble Opinion. .....this is what is meant (approximately) with "The Beast System".

Regards!

[Grey]

There were only two channels available and Yugoslavia had own TV programs for kids.

In my childhood and youth, I also had only 2 channels on TV Nevertheless, I clearly remember the excellent Yugoslavian cartoon Чудесна Шума (Fantasy Forest or Чудесный Лес). I don't remember where it was made, in Belgrade or Zagreb.

I remember I had a "brain explosion" from this cartoon. The American cartoon FernGully: The Last Rainforest (Valley of Ferns in Russia) came out later, which means that the Fantasy Forest is in the first place for me from the cartoons "about ecology"

The evil Cactus King and his Halberds fought against the kind Palette artist and his animal friends... A squad of hedgehogs, a fox (Lily?!), a beaver, an athlete bear... And the big executioner looks like a robot!

I think I'll watch it today. I haven't watched the full version from beginning to end for years... mmmm... 25-30 years have passed?!

Чудесна шума.jpg (99.59 KiB) Viewed 1589 times

[misko_2083]

25-30 years have passed?!

"The Elm-Chanted Forest" 35 years from release, the second part was released in 1990.

[Grey]

the second part was released in 1990.

Thanks for the tip I didn't even know about the sequel. Either he failed to repeat the success of the first part, or he just came out at the wrong time (1990).

"Forest" is in at least 4 translations into Russian and one of them is "the same old" dubbing from childhood. This is on the largest Russian torrent portal.

And "Hat" is only in one translation, amateur (one person reads the text awkwardly). It's good that a girl from Macedonia and a guy from Serbia helped make it (+ subtitles).

Not wonder I didn't know about the "Hat". By the way, there is an opinion that the second part is suspiciously similar in some moments to... Star Wars

[misko_2083]

the second part was released in 1990.

Thanks for the tip I didn't even know about the sequel. Either he failed to repeat the success of the first part, or he just came out at the wrong time (1990).

"Forest" is in at least 4 translations into Russian and one of them is "the same old" dubbing from childhood. This is on the largest Russian torrent portal.

And "Hat" is only in one translation, amateur (one person reads the text awkwardly). It's good that a girl from Macedonia and a guy from Serbia helped make it (+ subtitles).

The mushroomy power baby
It was a long time ago but I remember the Emperor Frostkill (Car Mrazomor) song in Magician's Hat.
Had those cartoons on VHS.

By the way, there is an opinion that the second part is suspiciously similar in some moments to... Star Wars

Do other people's opinions really matter?
Here's one definition from vukajlija.com https://vukajlija.com/misljenje/92453

Opinion

Opinion is like an ass - everyone has it.
And not only does he have it, but he also has the need to take off his pants and wave the same in front of others.
Thus, the debates look like a square full of butt-naked people who demand attention and acceptance,
but, as is the case with debates, they usually end with putting on their underpants
when they see that all this is useless and that everyone is looking at their own ass.

[jamesbond]

I love this thread. It started as the next breakthrough PC/tablet/smartphone/related technology, but ended up talking about space, androids, AI, and stamps and now cartoon movies (not that I mind ).

And the best of it, is that there is no bickering or name calling or chest-thumping. We're here just for the fun of it.

Carry on, lads. You all have got my approval I will butt in again when I see something that catches my eyes and I've got something fun to say.

[Grey]

when I see something that catches my eyes

And how do you like the combination of Space and graffiti ?
In the spring of this year, several guys made their way (of course illegally) to the territory of the Baikonur cosmodrome. And they put inscriptions on the Buran spacecraft stored there. This is the ship version 1.02. The first ship (Blizzard=Буран=1.01, which flew into space) was destroyed when the roof collapsed in the test building in 2002. Spaceships of the third 2.01 (Storm=Буря) series began to be created, but were never completed (collapse of the USSR).

What was written on the preserved 1.02? Different inscriptions. But the most interesting one is this:
"Before climbing to the stars, Humanity needs to learn how to live on Earth!"

Buran_graffiti.jpg (60.8 KiB) Viewed 1406 times

[jamesbond]

And how do you like the combination of Space and graffiti ?

Sure!

"Before climbing to the stars, Humanity needs to learn how to live on Earth!"

Yeah, that's a false dichotomy, unfortunately. "Climbing to the stars" and "learn how to live on Earth" goes hand in hand. They're both important. Focusing in one or the other ends up no good.

I think the guys who wrote meant that we shouldn't fire rockets until we've solved all humanity starvation problem (or climate change for that matter), but the same people forget that major technological contribution that came from the effort of climbing to the stars, which we enjoy today without even thinking (turns out, the same tech we use for climbing the stars and preservation of cosmonaut's life is also useful on Earth!).

Not to say that when one is up high there in space, one will have a different view of Earth (e.g. when we're up there and looking at the blue marble against the cosmic dark sky, we'll end up more appreciative of the only home humanity ever has - and hopefully that turns to actions of trying to preserve the environment).

If we do it wisely, we'll can do both.

But of course if we're trying to put ourselves in Kessler prison, or trying to lock ourselves out from the science that makes it all possible (Astronomy Group Says Starlink and Other Satellite Constellations Could Threaten Science), I wouldn't exactly call it wise.

---------

Backtracking a little bit:

Democracy is common, plus Christians here and there (yes, Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox, but Christ is common to all). It's good.

I would say, the thing is, there are a lot of people who call themselves as Christians but don't live according to teachings of Christ. Otherwise how can we really explain the animosity?

Negative impact on the atmosphere due to frequent but useless flights? All sides don't care.

Some smartasses will probably scold me by saying that this isn't a problem, since rockets burn LOX and LH, the only by product is water. However:
1. Water (or to be more precise, steam) is a greenhouse gas,
2. Where does those LOX and LH come from?
3. Not all rockets burn LOX and LH, some burns LOX and ... guess what, kerosene Never heard of a rocket that burns green-sourced ethanol, though

It is assumed that space tourism will become available to a large number of people in the next 20-30 years. But they forgot to specify - for a large number of RICH people

LOL. Some of these people becomes philanthropist when they get old, because they learn they can't take everything with them. Some, however, try to reach for immortality instead. What do you think of "Ghost in the Shell"? Is it utopian or dystopian? Are we ever able to get "there"?

The modern slave-owning countries with an illusion of democracy on all sides.
The truth is they all use tricks and force to make you do what the deciders have decided you must do.

Indeed. It's a never-ending cycle. Somebody told me that no republic or democracy lasted more than 300 years. It almost always falls back to a form of dictatorship (be it monarchy, theocracy, dictatorship itself, etc). I'm not sure how true it its, but looking at a historical example: the French overthrew their king on 1793. On 1804 Napoleon was declared as the "Emperor of the French" if wikipedia is to believed. That's only 11 years ....

Grey are you collecting postal stamps?
That one was probably the last one from the Soviet Union.
I have some space themed Soviet stamps from 60's, 70's and 80's.

I used to collect stamps too. But I lost it all when I moved house

[misko_2083]

The modern slave-owning countries with an illusion of democracy on all sides.
The truth is they all use tricks and force to make you do what the deciders have decided you must do.

Indeed. It's a never-ending cycle. Somebody told me that no republic or democracy lasted more than 300 years. It almost always falls back to a form of dictatorship (be it monarchy, theocracy, dictatorship itself, etc). I'm not sure how true it its, but looking at a historical example: the French overthrew their king on 1793. On 1804 Napoleon was declared as the "Emperor of the French" if wikipedia is to believed. That's only 11 years ....

New paint over the eyes of the people as we say, "smearing" the eyes and diverting the public's attention.
Was it Plato who thought that democracy is one system in the cycle?

[Clarity]

... Was it Plato ...

Some accounts attribute Aristotle.

[Grey]

Aristotle

Was it Plato

Yes, this topic is very "unexpected". Plato, Aristotle... Who's next, Socrates? I wanted to talk about space again, but I won't do it yet