Which Puppy version for '97 Toshiba laptop?

[Spright]

Hello! I'm a total Puppy noob.

I was surprised to see a plethora of versions on the Download page. Which one should I choose?

I chose the first one, and when I try to boot from a live CD it says "This kernel requires the following features not present on the CPU: pae cmov".

My laptop: an old Toshiba 230CX from 1997 with Windows 98.

Which version is the right for me? All I want to do is to rescue some files from the HD by copying them to a USB stick. Windows 98 needs drivers in order to access the USB stick.

Do you think Puppy will recognize the USB stick out of the box? And will Puppy be able to see the FAT Windows files on the HD?

Thanks a lot!

[6502coder]

Looks like you have a Pentium MMX, 233MHz or thereabouts.

Since all you want to do is save files off your hard drive, an old Puppy will do just fine. I'd suggest Puppy 4.1.2 Retro, which you can get here:

https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/pup ... monkey.iso

For further info about this Puppy, see here:

https://412collection.neocities.org/os.html

Yes, Puppy will be able to read your Windows files. Once you get to the desktop, you will see an icon representing your Windows partition. Clcik on this to mount the drive, and a file manager window will open showing your Windows files.

[OscarTalks]

Hello and welcome,
Since you only want to use Puppy to rescue files and since the hardware is very old, probably the best approach would be to use an older Puppy which was designed more for use with older hardware. I take it that you have been able to download the Puppy .iso and burn it to a CD and then boot the CD in the old laptop?

There are all the old Puppies still available in the archives, but one that you could try is Wary Puppy. Use the wary-5.5.iso file from here:-
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/wary-5.5/
A slightly later one would be Precise Retro. Use the precise-5.7.1-retro.iso file from here:-
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/precise-5.7.1/

I would expect Puppy to be able to read and move the files on the HDD if it is working. I would also expect Puppy to recognise the USB stick and be able to write to it. The ports may be only USB-1.1 and not USB-2, so file transfer may be slower, but it should work.

[Spright]

Unfortunately both versions failed.

Puppy 4.1.2 got stuck on "Loading kernel modules".

Puppy 5.5 got stuck on "puppy_wary_5.5.sfs not found. Dropping out to initial-ramdisk console."

Just to be sure: I downloaded the .iso files on Windows, burnt an image on a CD, then booted from the CD on the old Toshiba. The laptop got stuck, with the CD "idle-reading" on and on for hours with nothing happening. The OS didn't load.

I'm suspecting that the problem is with the Toshiba, since TWO live CDs failed...? But Windows 98 on that laptop works just fine.

Any suggestions?

[williwaw]

suggestions include

can you confirm the cds are bootable on a different older computer, as to rule out the cd reader before trouble shooting boot failures?
or consider just burning the files to CD with W98 if the optical drive can write

physically remove the hd and use an pata to usb adapter to read the files on another computer

[mikewalsh]

Yknow, personally I'd be extremely surprised if even the oldest Pups will run on that old box.

It's the instruction sets again. This thing has MMX only. No SSE, no SSE2. The oldest Pentiums I've ever heard of running Puppy are the P3s.....and this thing predates even those.

Maybe a 2-series Puppy, though I wouldn't like to say. At the time when Puppy 1 was released, AFAIK SSE2s already commonly existed in the marketplace.....

Mike.

[baldronicus]

Hi @Spright . I think I can vaguely recall running 2.14X by ttuuxxx on a Pentium 2 laptop a long time ago. The laptop is no longer with me, so I cannot confirm. It was also only a test run, and I didn't pursue using the laptop much, but I think it worked. 2.14X might still be available from smokey01.com, but I am not sure. I don't know if that might fall within the range of the instruction set consideration that @mikewalsh describes.

Maybe TeenPup or LegacyOS might work, but I am not sure if they might have been more Pentium 3 orientated (I simply can't remember their ranges).

Maybe @ally might have archived all of the above, and some other earlier pups?

I'm a bit worried that I could just be setting you up for a series of burning sessions that go nowhere.
[Edit- Only thought of it later- I don't know about the early Toshiba laptops, but it could have a fixed adapter fitting on the end of the drive that might require Torx, or other specialist types of screwdrivers, to remove it. Given the age, it might also be fragile and, probably, irreplaceable. Overall, it might be better to not follow this path. Hence, please ignore the following unless the drive can be easily accessed, you have an IDE/PATA to USB adapter of some description that you can use, and the drive is not fitted with any specialised connector (some/all of which might be unlikely).] If you can both access the hard drive, and have access to an adapter such as @williwaw describes, then that might be the simplest path.
Thanks.

[ally]

https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_214X

https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_teenpup

https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Legacy_OS

https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Series2

https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Series1

https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_xwoaf_pup

https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux ... Mar08_2007

ps - maybe try and assembly language os like kolibri or menuetos

kolibri is ridiculously fast

http://www.menuetos.net/M32.htm

http://wiki.kolibrios.org/index.php?tit ... setlang=en

[JASpup]

The classic old-but-not-very-old Puppy is 4.31. I have yet to boot it.

I have a 98 desktop that works best with Lucid 5.28.

Memory matters. Your laptop default has little. Adjustments can be made.

Puppy can read FAT USB.

Your Puppy 5.5 error might be fixable. If an .sfs module cannot be found it can be references in the boot configuration file.

[wizard]

@Spright

Did a test on a Intel P1-233mhz (MMX only) using known good CD's:

Puppy 2.14 = fail, this would indicate that any Pup newer than 2.14 will also fail.
Puppy 1.08 = OK, slow booting, recognizes USB ports

@ally
Do you have 1.08 in your collection?

wizard

[Keef]

Back in 2008 my first dedicated Puppy laptop was a Compaq Armada 3500. Pentium 2 @ 300mhz and 192mb ram (64 + 128). I mainly used MeanPup on it, but I'm sure other 2 series pups ran on it, albeit a little slower. I know I also tried this version of Dynebolic : http://distro.ibiblio.org/dynebolic.

[ally]

@wizard

see above under 1 series

[6502coder]

...The oldest Pentiums I've ever heard of running Puppy are the P3s.....and this thing predates even those.

I'm running Puppy 4.1.2 Retro on a Compaq Armada 1700: Pentium II (yes, P2), 233 Mhz, with a mere 96 MB RAM. Standard frugal install. Runs flawlessly. Dual-boots with the original Win95.
And a slightly newer Sony machine with a P2, 300 MHz, 192 MB RAM happily runs Wary. So yeah, P2s can definitely run the classic Pups.

[Keef]

The next one I had was a 1750. Although not in the original specs, they could handle 256mb in one of the two (128mb) ram slots. Think that was 300 or 350mhz. Can't remember what Pups I tried, but probably still 2 (or 3, which was a fave) series.

[Spright]

Thank y'all for the fascinating discussion.

My Live CDs booted perfectly on a newer PC, meaning probably that my Toshiba couldn't handle those versions. Gee, computers sure have gone a long way since 1997... I had this misconception about Puppy, that even the current version could run on an 1960s IBM. I guess not.

Out of curiously: does anyone use Puppy on a really strong PC, just because they think it's the best distro?

Anyway, I tore the laptop apart with some violence and I now have the HD, intact and with an exposed IDE connection. I ordered a USB adaptor for 8 bucks, will see what happens.

Thanks again!

[JASpup]

Out of curiously: does anyone use Puppy on a really strong PC, just because they think it's the best distro?

Yes

https://sourceforge.net/projects/xenialpup64-with-xfce/

When you boot this LIVE on a USB, you can remove it once you see the desktop. Ask around to see if any non-Puppy users can do that.

[mikeslr]

Although my current Desktop came with Windows 7, it could easily run Windows 10. I hunted for a '7' because I didn't want to have to deal with the UEFI boot-crap now built-into computers. [What I really think of UEFI, https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtop ... 79#p859079, https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtop ... 17#p859517]. It could also run any version of Linux including --from experience as I was curious-- Linux Kodachi, https://www.digi77.com/linux-kodachi/.
I run Puppys. Currently Bionicpup64 is my 'daily driver'; but, as it only required another folder, and re-running grub2config, viewtopic.php?p=29703#p29703 I can boot into Fossapup64 [and a couple other Puppys] any time I want.
Working with Puppys is fun. And its community is the best, bar none. With one exception, I can run some application to do anything that interests me. The exception is being able to run Dragon Naturally Speaking under Wine from a Puppy. [But I haven't tried in a couple of years].
Jaspup wrote that he could run Xenialpup64-with xfce "LIVE on a USB, you can remove it once you see the desktop." That can be done with any recent Puppy. I don't know of any method a malcontent can permanently infect an operating system which isn't there. Of course, the 'Achilles' heel' to this method of security is 'Don't leave the Key in your shirt-pocket when you run the it thru a wash 'n dry cycle. I've done that too.

[mikewalsh]

Out of curiously: does anyone use Puppy on a really strong PC, just because they think it's the best distro?

Oh, yes....

Quad-core Pentium Gold @ 3.7 GHz, 32GB DDR4, 5 TB+ storage, Nvidia GPU. Came with Win10, which immediately got exorcised with extreme prejudice.....then replaced with half-a-dozen Puppies of various vintages.

Can't beat Puppy. On a "strong" machine, it paws don't touch the ground, it's that fast. I know from experience, having had a couple of old, slow rigs (both 15+ yrs old) before getting this one 18 months ago.....and even there, performance was respectable.

Mike.

[6502coder]

@Spright
My apologies for steering you wrong: I thought that the Pentium MMX was roughly contemporary with the Celeron, and therefore newer than the Pentium II. I didn't realize just how ancient the Pentium MMX really is. Bad job on my part for not doing the proper research.

Regarding your latest question, I do run BionicPup64 on a two-year-old HP Ryzen 3 laptop in preference to the Win10 crap it came installed with. (Well, okay...the Ryzen 3 is "really strong" at least compared to my other laptops.)

[amethyst]

Instead of booting with the cd try to do a manual install of an old puppy (I recommend Puppy 412) and make a quick dual-boot system by adding a relay grub loader for the Puppy. Add the grub entry to windows boot.ini file. Then you can boot the Puppy from Harddisk.

[ally]

@Spright

yep, puppy as a daily driver since ~2004, current running a lenovo w520 i7 but an older T21 comes out for a play every now and then

[mikewalsh]

@6502coder ;-

@Spright
My apologies for steering you wrong: I thought that the Pentium MMX was roughly contemporary with the Celeron, and therefore newer than the Pentium II. I didn't realize just how ancient the Pentium MMX really is. Bad job on my part for not doing the proper research.

Actually, there's nothing in it. The MMX is a wee bit older, though not by much.

The first MMX appears to have been launched at the beginning of 1997, in Jan:-

https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Pentium/ ... 03166.html

.....whereas the first P2 was released in the middle of that year, sometime in May:-

https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Pentium- ... 33256.html

Both came with MMX instructions, so if your P2 will run Puppies, by rights I reckon the MMX ought to as well.....although the P2 did have nearly double the number of transistors (7.5 million as against 4.5 for the MMX).

Mike.