How to install Puppy in a 2001 Dell laptop with a broken DVD drive? (Solved)

[Flash]

The laptop is a Dell Inspiron 2650, Model No PP04L, with a whopping 360 MB of RAM or so. It weighs nearly 7 lbs or 3.2 kg. It boots Windows XP and the battery holds a charge. It has a floppy disk drive but I have no floppy disks. The BIOS offers to boot from HDD, DVD, floppy, Ethernet and a few other things I don't recognize -- but not USB. It does have a USB port, probably USB 1.1. The DVD ROM drive makes noises but doesn't seem to be able to read a DVD or a CD.

I have no use for the laptop, but if a Puppy can be installed, I could give it to someone. Is there a Puppy that would work well with so little RAM, and how would I install it?

[bigpup]

Try using the Lick installer program running in Windows XP.
https://github.com/noryb009/lick
Read carefully the info on using it.
May have to use it by command line interface.
There is info on how to do it.

Maybe Precise Light
viewtopic.php?t=94

after the install of Puppy and getting it running.
I think Windows XP could be deleted, but it may be better to let it stay installed, and duel boot.
Could just delete all the junk in Windows XP to get some storage space free.

[wizard]

@Flash

According to the web the 2650 will have a Intel P4 or maybe a Celeron. The USB is 1.1 so it would be really slooooow to boot. Bigpup's recommendation for Precise Lite is good. One of the ways to get Puppy onto the hdd is to extract the files from the ISO onto a usb and then copy that to a puppy folder on the hdd. It's pretty easy to configure XP to dual boot with Puppy, let me know if you need details.

wizard

[Flash]

Thanks, guys. I'll tinker with it some and then let you know.

[JASpup]

I would assume the need for a Windows multiboot utility roughly capable as G4D and would look at EasyBCD or Grub2Win first for Tahrpup and nocopy.

https://www.geckoandfly.com/32417/dual- ... ows-linux/

[wizard]

@JASpup
@Flash

The boot managers in your link are far more sophisticated than required for a XP/Puppy dual boot on a bios hdd. Windows XP has a far simpler boot manager system and no partitioning is needed. Here's an overview:

-boot XP
-create a c:\puppy folder
-copy the puppy boot files into c:\puppy
-copy two grub files into c:\
-edit the file c:\boot.ini to include the grub loader

That's it, and can be done with the limitations of the computer in question.

wizard

[rockedge]

I agree with wizard. I have a DELL INSPIRON 1505e that dual boots with Windows XP and multiple Puppy's and others. The intial boot is by Grub4Dos which will chain load the Window's boot. All one one partition. I think way back when I just ran Grub4Dos and installed it then went back and modified the menu.lst Windows selection stanza to chain load +1

[JASpup]

@Wiz57 so the Windows bootloader can call, say, the Xenial splash screen (Tahr doesn't have one). I do not think I have ever manually edited boot.ini, but it looks familiar.

There was a time when that is what I wanted to do, but I didn't know it was possible.

The reason is the risk of overwriting the Windows boot and the elusive and esoteric means of recovering it. That is why I always boot Linux from USB, even if the distro is on an internal partition.

If we can boot Puppy on a Windows boot partition just by editing a text file, that is an advance.

I just scanned my 32-bit Win 7 partition for boot.ini and it does not appear to exist, but I remember seeing boot management options in a utility, msconfig? I'll have to check.

[wizard]

@JASpup

With the above method, XP's bootloader chainloads grub, which boots puppy. It DOES NOT WORK on any Windows newer than XP.

wizard

[mikeslr]

Flash, before you get deep into the weeds, I'd suggest that while running windows you check to make sure that the CPU supports the SSE2 instruction set. There's a free tool linked from this post, https://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral ... upports-it
If the computer doesn't support sse2, functional web-browsers will be few, and moribund.
If you still think a computer which no or limited internet capabilities is worth having, you might want to consider John Biles' LegacyOS, https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtop ... 77#p529877 still available thanks to ally, https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Legacy_OS: a really beautiful OS with many useful applications.

[JASpup]

With the above method, XP's bootloader chainloads grub, which boots puppy. It DOES NOT WORK on any Windows newer than XP.

OK, two questions:

1. Do you use an alternative method of booting Linux with the bootloader in newer Windows? Other than XP I have 7 & 10.

2. Here is the entire boot.ini on my XP:

Code: Select all

[boot loader]
timeout=60
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

What would a Xenialpup entry on the same partition look like?

[wizard]

Good call @mikeslr

If the cpu is a P4 or a mobile celeron it will have SSE2.

wizard

[Barkingmad]

Hello

re. No option for USB boot.
Something I've seen on a couple machines that sort of age is that the USB boot option only appears in the BIOS if a USB drive is connected at power up. eg plug pen drive in, press power button, enter BIOS and low USB drive is there in the list of boot drives.

Sorry if you are well aware of this but it had me running round in circles the first few time I tried to USB boot my P4 eara box.
Will

[wizard]

@JASpup
@Flash

See this Howto for dual boot setup

viewtopic.php?t=4446

jaspup, for newer versions of Windows you can use EASYBCD to accomplish the same thing. EASYBCD does not alter the hdd boot sector.

wizard

[JASpup]

Something I've seen on a couple machines that sort of age is that the USB boot option only appears in the BIOS if a USB drive is connected at power up.

Extra bizarre info I wouldn't have imagined, but I suppose BIOS is dynamically sensitive to other hardware attachments, so why not?

I wonder if anyone kept a list of BIOS/machines where this is applicable, or is it all trial and error?

I have esoteric problems with Puppy on (1) old, (2) desktops. They don't want to dual-boot, experience kernel panic and sundry problems I've rarely seen on laptops and newer machines. One coincidental difference between the old desktops and laptops is USB boot functionality (desktops offer no USB BIOS boot).

[JASpup]

jaspup, for newer versions of Windows you can use EASYBCD to accomplish the same thing. EASYBCD does not alter the hdd boot sector.

Suffice to conclude EASYBCD is doing something we can't do manually?

[wizard]

@JASpup
Yes

[JASpup]

@wizard that makes me more cautious.

[Flash]

Yay! Problem solved! Well, I got Linux installed and booted anyway.

First, at @mikeslr's suggestion, I downloaded cpu-z and, at @bigpup's suggestion, Precise Light. I opened the Precise .iso and put everything that was in it, plus the .iso and cpu-z, on a USB flash drive which I plugged into the old Dell laptop. When I turned the laptop on and pressed F2 for the BIOS, the BIOS didn't offer to boot from USB. So it could only boot into Windows XP.

Cpu-z said the laptop has SSE and SSE2, so I continued. Precise Light includes the Lick installer. All I had to do was open the Lick folder and click on the Windows executable that I found. Lick installed Precise Light and configured the boot loader, whatever it is. When I rebooted the laptop, it gave the option of booting Windows or Linux. I chose Linux and walla, up came Precise Light.

After tinkering around with it for a while, getting connected to the Internet and then finding that the browser wouldn't work (probably because of the limited RAM), the battery was getting low so I tried to shut down. It wouldn't shut down, either with or without saving the session.

I shut the lid, to turn off the display so the battery would charge, then left it for the night. It's sitting there now, waiting for me to tell it what to do.

[williams2]

Usually you can reboot even if it won't poweroff.

You could try killing X by pressing ctrl+alt+backspace
then type poweroff or reboot or press ctrl+alt+del

if you can reboot, when you get to the boot manager offering to boot Windows or Puppy,
you can give the power button a normal, quick press to power off the machine.

In any case, you should be able to force the machine to power off by pressing and holding the power button for 5 to 10 seconds. It's best to unmount first file systems (partitions) that you might have mounted.
Forcing a power off might cause corruption in mounted file systems, but probably won't.

Avoid forcing Windows to shut down that way, it is much more likely to corrupt the file system than Puppy.

[user1111]

The laptop is a Dell Inspiron 2650, Model No PP04L, with a whopping 360 MB of RAM or so. It weighs nearly 7 lbs or 3.2 kg. It boots Windows XP and the battery holds a charge. It has a floppy disk drive but I have no floppy disks. The BIOS offers to boot from HDD, DVD, floppy, Ethernet and a few other things I don't recognize -- but not USB. It does have a USB port, probably USB 1.1. The DVD ROM drive makes noises but doesn't seem to be able to read a DVD or a CD.

I have no use for the laptop, but if a Puppy can be installed, I could give it to someone. Is there a Puppy that would work well with so little RAM, and how would I install it?

Having another machine that has PXE boot installed/running usually enables you to boot from that using the Ethernet option. No HDD, CD/DVD, USB, floppy required

The serving system can enable any other (or same) Puppy system to be booted, so for a low ram system just select a version with a low footprint.

[mikewalsh]

Coupla misconceptions here, I think.

Cannae be a 2001 machine. According to Dell themselves, the "legacy" Inspiron 2650 - Dell recycle model numbers over & again as the years pass - uses the Mobile Pentium 4-M. Not the Pentium M - with the Banias/Dothan nightmare of needing to make the CPU report the fact that it's deliberately hidden the PAE flag.

No, this was the mobile version of the bog-standard desktop P4. And these didn't come onto the market till early 2003....

---------------
@ruffers:-

Cute idea, this PXE booting. I assume in this setup the old banger will essentially control a Puppy or some other OS running on a remote machine, yes?

Umm.....how's that going to help Flash get rid of this machine? Yes, it would keep the 2650 useful.....but to sell it, or give it away like that, wouldn't you have to give away a 2nd machine with it?

I may have got hold of the wrong end of the stick here. I'm quite willing to be corrected on this one!

Mike.

[Flash]

Okay, you got me there, I don't know where I got 2001. The laptop could be several years younger than that, perhaps 2003 or so. The last BIOS update is from May of 2004. There is a 2002 zdnet review of the 2650 still online. It does have a 1.7 Ghz mobile P4, according to cpu-z. The maximum RAM it can handle appears to be 512 MB, so I couldn't add enough to make much difference. I'll make a swap partition and see if that helps.

[wizard]

@Flash

Don't forget to make a nice big swap file to help that low ram. You didn't say what cpu you found, but on my P4 2.0ghz with 512mb ram laptop I can run Slacko 6.3 or Stretch 7.5 with a little more effort. It quickly runs out of gas with any amount of application load such as browsers. The single core P4 just doesn't have enough power for modern browsers and any newer pups just need lots more ram and a dual core cpu.

wizard

[mikeslr]

Flash, you posted on another thread --can't find the post-- that you might want to wipe XP and just use a Puppy if there was one that would function on a computer with only IIRC 384 Mbs of RAM.
jamesbond posted on the 'old forum' about running dpup-stretch (in a virtual environment, no less) with only 256 Mbs of RAM. foxpup found the post and I copied it here, viewtopic.php?p=1320#p1320.

Inspired by jamesbond, while exploring the effects of 'stripping' to create a 'bare-bones' Puppy, I created a remaster of radky's Busterpup. It ran on my Asus 701SD which only has 418 Mbs of RAM. The remaster is still available, linked from this post: viewtopic.php?t=692.
[The post indicated that I intended to remove it from mediafire. Ideas fly bye. Actually doing something requires an effort. And mediafire isn't complaining ].
The post may suggest some applications you could use. But it will also point out that the real problem with only a little RAM is that web-browsers are RAM-hogs. Disregarding caching and buffering, pupsys-info reported that the Asus still had 325 MB Free RAM on bootup. But:

"Closing that and starting palemoon, pup-sysinfo reported
Actual Used RAM: 177 MB Used - (buffers + cached)
Actual Free RAM: 241 MB Free + (buffers + cached)

Closing that and starting Mike Walsh’s Seamonkey 2.46 portable, viewtopic.php?p=2206#p2206,
pup-sysinfo reported
Actual Used RAM: 151 MB Used - (buffers + cached)
Actual Free RAM: 267 MB Free + (buffers + cached)

Entering “Cats Images” into a google-search in seamonkey pup-sysinfo reported
Actual Used RAM: 408 MB Used - (buffers + cached)
Actual Free RAM: 10 MB Free + (buffers + cached).

Moreover, it was also reported that 8 Mbs of the 377 swap has also been used. It should also be noted that it took about 3 minutes to load the web-page; and after it loaded it took over a minute for pup-sysinfo to complete and display its report."

I wouldn't be too quick to remove XP. It wasn't a bad operating system. Functional web-browsers may not exist; and if they do are security risks. But there are many programs for it. Many of those programs have been published as window-portables. (These require no RAM when not in use). Most of those will run under Puppys using Wine. The portable-wine versions require almost no RAM when not in use (probably less than 1 mb, consisting of links to the external).

If it didn't require an effort, I'd experiment with bionicpup32. I have no reason to believe that in practice it would require more RAM than debian-based Puppys.

[rcrsn51]

The fastest way to free up RAM is to boot with the "pfix=nocopy" argument in your menu.lst entry.

[mikeslr]

@ rcrsn51, in my exploration of the remastered Busterpup I may have employed that boot-command. I was aware of it. But don't have a clear memory.
Even so, even using that command there's a limit to what can be achieved. But your post is a good suggestion as to how to setup a low-RAM computer.

[rcrsn51]

Even so, even using that command there's a limit to what can be achieved.

Exactly. Which is why reviving these old machines with the intent of donating them to someone is ultimately a waste of time.

[Flash]

Usually you can reboot even if it won't poweroff.

You could try killing X by pressing ctrl+alt+backspace
then type poweroff or reboot or press ctrl+alt+del

if you can reboot, when you get to the boot manager offering to boot Windows or Puppy,
you can give the power button a normal, quick press to power off the machine.

In any case, you should be able to force the machine to power off by pressing and holding the power button for 5 to 10 seconds.

I did ctrl+alt+backspace, then tried poweroff and reboot. Both of them returned "command not found" That explains why Precise Light wouldn't turn off.

So I forced the power off by holding the power button in.

Is there any way to add those commands? Or is there another Puppy that might work and how would I replace Precise Light?

[Flash]

Exactly. Which is why reviving these old machines with the intent of donating them to someone is ultimately a waste of time.

I knew that before I started. That laptop is obsolete in every way and nobody would have any use for it. Mostly I couldn't resist tinkering with it, since it still worked.