Icons & the Desktop.....creating a workflow aesthetic?

[MochiMoppel]

And one thing I just figured out in ROX is that if you open an enter path dialogue, it can be left open all the time and dual used as an address bar - path entry tool.

Yes, it's neat and makes it easy to jump to files in a long directory listing by just entering a single letter. But leaving it open comes with a huge disadvantage: It disables another ROX feature which I call "Speeddials" (see here) and which I use a lot.

[geo_c]

And one thing I just figured out in ROX is that if you open an enter path dialogue, it can be left open all the time and dual used as an address bar - path entry tool.

Yes, it's neat and makes it easy to jump to files in a long directory listing by just entering a single letter. But leaving it open comes with a huge disadvantage: It disables another ROX feature which I call "Speeddials" (see here) and which I use a lot.

Slick! I'm going to check this out!

[geo_c]

@MochiMoppel

I'm using this and it is very fine indeed! It should be a standard puppy utility, though it might not be compatible with every distro.

It's probably somewhere in the archived threads, but is it possible to edit the ROX bookmarks from the speeddials menu, or does that still need to be done in the ROX dialogue?

If using speeddials as a launcher, where would I go to save window sizes and position, and is possible to open directories in the current active ROX window rather than opening a new one?

thanks, I really appreciate your work.
~geo

[MochiMoppel]

@MochiMoppel

I'm using this and it is very fine indeed!

I assume that with "this" you mean SpeedDials 2.0, my pimped up bookmarks viewer. I didn't use it much, so just recently I removed all functions that I don't need and added new ones that I missed. Certainly nothing that fits into the category "Eye Candy" since my personal SpeedDials 3.2 comes without buttons, menu, title bar or - sorry - icons.

It's probably somewhere in the archived threads, but is it possible to edit the ROX bookmarks from the speeddials menu, or does that still need to be done in the ROX dialogue?

All different bookmark flavors need to be managed in their native application. SpeedDial is a pure viewer. The added ability to launch windows is more a gimmick

If using speeddials as a launcher, where would I go to save window sizes and position

Save positions of the launched ROX windows? That would be the job of the window manager. But why would you want to do that? Sounds impractical.

and is possible to open directories in the current active ROX window rather than opening a new one?

Of course, that's how ROX Group Selections work. You activate any ROX window and press one of the number buttons. It would be possible to simulate this behavior by clicking on an item in the SpeedDials list so that the launched window will be fixed and only the contents will change, but what's the point? Speeddials for mouse lovers?

[geo_c]

and is possible to open directories in the current active ROX window rather than opening a new one?

Of course, that's how ROX Group Selections work. You activate any ROX window and press one of the number buttons. It would be possible to simulate this behavior by clicking on an item in the SpeedDials list so that the launched window will be fixed and only the contents will change, but what's the point? Speeddials for mouse lovers?

Well, you have a point. I sort of came to that conclusion, YET, it might be nice to have speeddials window left open and see bookmarks from ROX, GTK, and a number button list simultaneously, which of course you have given it the ability to do. One thing that I find annoying about ROX is the way windows pop open everywhich way. Two of the reasons I use XFE are the fixed position and the ablity to custom tailor the color theme. It's consistent. Still I think ROX is a very powerful file manager. I like ROX. With most ROX windows I tend to almost maximize them and leave them open. I have the re-size function set to off in options, but it doesn't always seem to play out that way.

You have pointed out the -- what is it? SRC file? I'll have to go back and look at that.

~geo

[MochiMoppel]

One thing that I find annoying about ROX is the way windows pop open everywhich way.

"We have a remedy"
Who? - Never mind if this doesn't ring a bell...

Maybe you find a remedy in this old thread. I started this because I have the same problem with ROX-Filer and I use the final version of the discussed script daily. Keeps my desktops clean.

[geo_c]

Maybe you find a remedy in this old thread. I started this because I have the same problem with ROX-Filer and I use the final version of the discussed script daily. Keeps my desktops clean.

Well the first thing I did after skimming through the thread a bit is check to see if I have wmctrl installed, so I entered; wmctrl -h and now I'm really intrigued. Like the -c option says: Close the window gracefully. So I'm guessing this wmctrl command is built for scripting. But I think I might play around in terminal and see if I can control windows on the desktop with it.

~geo

[geo_c]

@MochiMoppel Well, I played around a little with the command, then copied all 6 scripts from the thread. I'll start using them, especially at shut down.

thanks much!
~geo

[geo_c]

Maybe you find a remedy in this old thread. I started this because I have the same problem with ROX-Filer and I use the final version of the discussed script daily. Keeps my desktops clean.

Great work!, so here's a little layout with a ROX scripts window on the main work display, allowing for file management between rox and xfe. One advantage I find with xfe is the interface is more friendly to working with files with long names.

It seems to me that with wmctrl it would be possible to write a script that opens a ROX window with pre-set directory/window-placement and size, and expand that to open a set of ROX filer windows as workspaces for specific tasks. But as far I can tell, the wmctrl utility is designed for already open windows. So the script would need to open windows first then call wmctrl to set their placement and dimensions.

~geo

[MochiMoppel]

here's a little layout with a ROX scripts window on the main work display, allowing for file management between rox and xfe.

Hard to see. So the little window top right is ROX, with button bar off screen?

One advantage I find with xfe is the interface is more friendly to working with files with long names.

???
Are your ROX windows set to "Icons View"? If so you may have a point. Setting ROX to "List View" is the very first thing I do whenever I boot into a pristine Puppy. I simply can't work with Icons View. In List View the Name column automatically expands to the width of the longest file name.

It seems to me that with wmctrl it would be possible to write a script that opens a ROX window with pre-set directory/window-placement and size, and expand that to open a set of ROX filer windows as workspaces for specific tasks.

Possible. What I'm doing now is write a script that creates a ROX "master window" that serves as the main window for newly opened directories. Target is to have a maximum of only 2 ROX windows on any given desktop. Let's see how this works out.

So the script would need to open windows first then call wmctrl to set their placement and dimensions.

Correct.

[geo_c]

@MochiMoppel

I always use list view. That little ROX sidebar window is a brand new thing I came up with, and actually it's also in list view with details pushed off the edge of the window. I think the reason I say XFE works well with long file names is because the window size can be set, and therefore I set it to accommodate long filenames. When they're short, the XFE window just has a lot of black space. I set XFE so the details are off the edge of the window, and if I need them I use the scroll bars, slide the fields over into the window, or just hit the maximize button.

You're correct, I moved the ROX scrollbar off the side of the screen, and I have the menu buttons turned off. Just using right click for everything, or key bindings. I've been doing that sort of thing with various windows for awhile. It works! Gets rid of stuff I'm not using. I can forgo the scrollbar on that, shall we call it a 'utility window?' because I have a middle wheel on my mouse. This utility window is a quick browser, launcher, place to access bookmarks or the speeddial keys. I put the scripts folder on the speeddial number 0, which allows me to go right to the scripts and choose any of the close window options.

I named the script commands beginning with ca standing for close all. So we have:

• ca-app closes all application windows on all desks
  ca-appOR closes all application windows on current desk OR all desks
  ca-dsk closes all windows on all desks
  ca-rox closes all ROX windows
  ca-roxc closes all ROX windows on current desk
  ca-roxm closes all minimized windows

I think I kept all these functions straight when I grabbed the code off of the old thread. I tried them out, and they're really cool. I can minimize windows, and if I don't need them, speeddial 0 in the utility window, click ca-roxm.

I actually have this kind of purist vision of a theme. You might be able to see that I am emulating it with XFE and LibreWolf on the above screenshot. I'm trying to go for only colored text floating on a black field. Sort of the look of text based system. We musicians get weird about stuff like that sometimes. Me perhaps more than most.

I'm glad I least comprehend enough command line to understand what you're doing with these scripts, and I wish I was fluent enough to write them myself. There are so many conventions to the language which I'm just not knowledgeable about. I'm talking about the basics of regular expressions and so forth. I've read tutorials here and there, and tried a few things, but it's a bit overwhelming.

Also, if you want to see the screenshot better, I think if you click on it you'll be redirected to the post images website where it's quick to hit the download button and see it your image viewer.

~geo

[geo_c]

Taking cues from the recent 'Standard Launcher' thread, I've been using a new ROX filer launcher system. It involves directories with launch icons in which the windows are sized to 'pinboard' strips. They are just standard windows although the title bars are invisible. With a grab of the edge of the window, the ROX filer can be fanned out and used more like a standard file manager. So I find this system to be highly efficient in that I also keep an XFE window constantly open for managing documents, and backups, and so forth, while having two ROX windows available on the edges of the screen for the additional functionality, launching, universal drag & drop, as well as bookmarks & speed dials. I also like the way the ROX 'enter path' dialog works.

The workflow is enhanced by careful window sizing and placement. The first thing I do after booting up is open these 3 file manager windows, along with a librewolf browser to view all relevant doc formats from XFE, so librewolf serves as web browser as well as a document viewer for XFE. The desktop on the large 'work monitor' of my dual monitor system looks like this:

When opening an application, window size and placement allow switching between filer windows, browser, and apps by simply clicking on the top or bottom edges of the screen. The JWM taskbar is located on the primary laptop monitor as opposed to this 'work monitor.' So any other system functions or applications can be operated from there, and windows can also be switched with the iconified windows in the JWM taskbar if my mouse orientation is in that particular direction to begin with.

Below is a an RSS feeder with the ROX launcher window strip on the left and a script launcher window on the right, with XFE and librewolf menus visible above the RSS feeder. If one of those is chosen, the RSS feeder can be accessed quickly again by clicking the bottom edge of the screen, as the other windows are sized with a hair of space left on bottom. I get a lot done this way.

[mikewalsh]

@geo_c :-

As we said in t'other thread, it's a highly customized 'personal' solution. Those of us who enjoy playing wi' this stuff will come up with many unique set-ups.....and, again, it serves to show how useful the JWM/ROX combo can really be, in addition to just how flexible the standard components are with regard to just what you can do with them.....

Sweet set-up, mate. Now that I like.....especially the concept of those 'pinboard strips'. Neat ! (It's a bit like the 'dual-taskbar' look of the GNOME 2 desktop, 'cept turned on its side...)

Keep up the good work..!

Mike.

[MochiMoppel]

It involves directories with launch icons in which the windows are sized to 'pinboard' strips.

So your ROX-Filer windows are masquerading as ROX panels. Turning those fake panels into a "fanned out" window with more normal ROX-Filer display (visible title bar is essential, list view is preferable ) and then resizing it back to a window strip sounds like a lot of work.

When opening an application, window size and placement allow switching between filer windows, browser, and apps by simply clicking on the top or bottom edges of the screen.

That's the part I don't understand. When you do your careful setup of windows, your screen is covered with application windows, leaving small strips at top and bottom to reach the underlying pinboard, right? When you now launch an application from your vertical ROX-Filer strips the application will be opened on top of your setup, making it partly inaccesible. How would clicking on the top or bottom edges of the screen prevent that? And one more question: Are your setup windows all sticky, i.e. shown on all virtual desktops? I just wonder how you make this carefully crafted setup accessible on more than 1 desktop.

[geo_c]

So your ROX-Filer windows are masquerading as ROX panels. Turning those fake panels into a "fanned out" window with more normal ROX-Filer display (visible title bar is essential, list view is preferable ) and then resizing it back to a window strip sounds like a lot of work.

Actually, I've found the title bar is not essential for me. If I need to reference my address quickly, I just press the '/' key and navigate with the 'enter path' bar. I also have used the speed-dials and bookmarks extensively, editing the ROX bookmark.xml manually, and creating all the locations I need. I use list view with bigger icons. I simply grab the side of the window and fan it out, use bookmarks or speed-dials to open my locations and right click for all other menu operations. So I have no menus or title bars and it doesn't slow me down a bit. In fact, I would say that because I put the work into the bookmarks and speed-dials, and utilize the 'enter path' dialogue, it's actually a lot zippier.

When opening an application, window size and placement allow switching between filer windows, browser, and apps by simply clicking on the top or bottom edges of the screen.

That's the part I don't understand. When you do your careful setup of windows, your screen is covered with application windows, leaving small strips at top and bottom to reach the underlying pinboard, right? When you now launch an application from your vertical ROX-Filer strips the application will be opened on top of your setup, making it partly inaccesible. How would clicking on the top or bottom edges of the screen prevent that? And one more question: Are your setup windows all sticky, i.e. shown on all virtual desktops? I just wonder how you make this carefully crafted setup accessible on more than 1 desktop.

Well it depends on the application. Some of the applications remember window postion and size, so I put them in the 'application space' between the rox strips and with top of the window below XFE and the librewolf browser/file-viewer. So I click on the top of the screen over the filers or browser to manage files and view docs, browse the web etc, and click on the bottom of the screen to see the application. I also am using dual monitors, so some of my applications, like email and notecase, grsync, etc open on the laptop monitor. That's why I call this secondary monitor the 'work monitor.' It's big, vibrant display with this window sizing/positioning allows me to switch between windows quickly.

A sample task for my daily work would be:
1) Edit a musical score in Musescore
2) Open up a scheduling website and upload it.
3) Email a notification to my bandmates.
4) Upload a zipfile of my music library on dropbox.

So with this setup, from the ROX launcher strip I open the Musescore window which is set to allow the XFE, ROX and LibreWolf menus to show on top (though ROX has no menus) while Musescore is very minutely exposed on the bottom. I can click on the top of the screen to see XFE, find the associated file and double click to open up in Musescore. Edit and save my document. Click on top to see LibreWolf and XFE again, drag the file from XFE to the upload field on the website. Launch my email from the ROX launcher (which opens on the laptop display, but sometimes I put in the same space as musescore, in that case I might use the JWM tray to switch between those two application windows, though everything else is still accessible with the edge clicking method, or there's always alt-tab.) I send my email. Then fan out the ROX window and speed-dial to my sheet music library to zip the file using a ROX right-click. Then upload with libre-wolf.

One of the reasons this works so well, is that I use XFE associations to open documents and files, while still keeping the 'system associations' available in ROX, all a click and a right-click away.

I use two desktops, and rarely need the second one with this setup. I have made the ROX strip sticky in the past. But I haven't felt the need to do it. I'll experiment with that a little.

[geo_c]

@MochiMoppel

Yeah, sticky is NICE! Now I sticky the strips!

When I want to ROX OUT I'll just Alt-2 over to the ROX strips and fan them out and file away!

[geo_c]

@mikewalsh

Now the next phase! I've got to make a Walshified background grid with thin outlines of where everything goes, maybe with graphically pleasing descriptions. I'll screenshot the setup and use layers in gimp to compose my background.

[MochiMoppel]

When I want to ROX OUT I'll just Alt-2 over to the ROX strips and fan them out and file away!

I tried your "ROX strips". Not for everyone, but they have their charm and some advantages, easy setup being one of them. I understand now why you like them. But how did you set up the strip on the left side? I wasn't able to construct a window without file names and scrollbar.

[geo_c]

I can't get rid of the scroll bar, but my XFE window covers it when the strip isn't active. Well I made this easy and made myself a baby start up script:

Code: Select all

rox /root/my-applications/bin/
wmctrl -r my-applications/bin -e 0,1366,3,78,1068
rox /root/my-applications/bin/launch
wmctrl -r bin/launch -e 0,3234,24,75,1068
/usr/bin/xfe
wmctrl -r Xfe -e 0,1430,24,803,1062

I did this last night, and this morning I booted the system and it worked nicely. What I couldn't get to work was opening LibreWolf which is an appimage. It would not open until I closed the ROX windows, then out of nowhere, the LibreWolf window would pop up. I tried putting LibreWolf first in the script, then I got the same thing in reverse. The ROX windows wouldn't open until I closed the LibreWolf window.

I tried like this:

Code: Select all

rox /root/my-applications/bin/
wmctrl -r my-applications/bin -e 0,1366,3,78,1068
rox /root/my-applications/bin/launch
wmctrl -r bin/launch -e 0,3234,24,75,1068
/usr/bin/xfe
wmctrl -r Xfe -e 0,1430,24,803,1062/root/my-applications/bin/launch/libre
wmctrl -r LibreWolf -e 0,2232,15,1000,1060

At the moment I am pasting this code with my Geany window that sits in the application space, switching windows with the bottom and top clicks.

[MochiMoppel]

I can't get rid of the scroll bar, but my XFE window covers it when the strip isn't active.

And how do you get rid of the file names?

[Edit] Ahhh, I see. You cover them too or minimize the width.
　
　

I tried putting LibreWolf first in the script, then I got the same thing in reverse. The ROX windows wouldn't open until I closed the LibreWolf window

Try
/root/my-applications/bin/launch/libre &
　
　

I booted the system and it worked nicely

And the result looks like in your screenshot? I thought that you shift the right "ROX strip" up until titlebar/buttonbar/menu move outside of the screen area, making them invisible. No? None of your wmctrl commands do that (though they could), so what do I miss?

[geo_c]

I can't get rid of the scroll bar, but my XFE window covers it when the strip isn't active.

And how do you get rid of the file names?

[Edit] Ahhh, I see. You cover them too or minimize the width.

I open the window with the script and the width keeps the filenames covered, but sometimes changing directories opens up the filenames again by expanding the window to the right. That is still in development.
　　

I tried putting LibreWolf first in the script, then I got the same thing in reverse. The ROX windows wouldn't open until I closed the LibreWolf window

Try
/root/my-applications/bin/launch/libre &

I'll try that with Libre and see if it works, but suddenly I seem to be having an issue with Xfe opening up way too low. I tried using '1' as the y coordinate, but it still comes out too low on the screen. I don't recall that being the case Saturday morning when I tried it and posted right before I went camping. I returned about an hour ago. Now Xfe is acting a little strange that way.

I also changed the Rox y coordinates to '1'. They both open at the top. My method has been to place everything and run wmctrl -lG in the terminal to get a list of coordinates and dimensions, then place those coordinates in the script. It's been a bit of trial and error. Also I need to check the Rox manual to see if I can open those strips with large icons in the list view, because they open with my default list option which is small icons. It's nice that both those windows maintain size and position when a change to 'bigger icons' with a right click display command.
　　

I booted the system and it worked nicely

And the result looks like in your screenshot? I thought that you shift the right "ROX strip" up until titlebar/buttonbar/menu move outside of the screen area, making them invisible. No? None of your wmctrl commands do that (though they could), so what do I miss?
[/quote]

Well I have made all my title bars transparent and the minimum height allowed in JWM window manager which is 16 with no menus in ROX. So the title bars are invisible and small, but still there. Actually that space is nice to activate the window without accidentally running something. So the answer is yes, it comes out looking like the screenshot with a bit of space for maneuvering.

You seem to understand what I'm going for, so if you know how to open those Rox windows more effectively, I'm all ears!

Let me try the libre line in the script and get back with the current code.

[MochiMoppel]

sometimes changing directories opens up the filenames again by expanding the window to the right.

ROX options -> Filer windows -> Never automatically resize

[geo_c]

sometimes changing directories opens up the filenames again by expanding the window to the right.

ROX options -> Filer windows -> Never automatically resize

Yes I always run ROX with the 'never resize' option. But I get it sometimes anyway.

I've spent quite a bit of time fiddling with things. I added another ROX filer window on the other monitor. I made a special background with thin border lines and extra puppy graphics, @mikewalsh style, though not his style at all, more my minimalist thing.

However it currently takes 3 scripts for me to do it properly. I think it's a timing issue. LibreWolf still halts everything if it's included in a master script. And Xfe doesn't resize if the wmctrl command is in the same script, or if scripts are started in sequence by the previous one. It all works fine if I run them manually. So my three scripts are below, and they yield a desktop just like the screenshot!

plaunch

Code: Select all

rox /root/my-launch
wmctrl -r my-launch -e 0,967,15,390,732
rox /root/my-applications/bin/
wmctrl -r my-applications/bin -e 0,1371,-16,71,1070
rox /root/my-applications/bin/launch/
wmctrl -r bin/launch -e 0,3234,-20,75,1067
/usr/bin/xfe

plibre

Code: Select all

/root/my-applications/bin/launch/libre

pwinset

Code: Select all

wmctrl -r LibreWolf -e 0,2233,-16,990,1062
wmctrl -r Xfe -e 0,1425,-16,806,1062

So I think if I can figure out some more scripting language to delay the commands, or ask for user input prompt, or run a command after the previous one is complete, then I could put everything in one script or set of scripts all in the startup directory and have my nicely layed out work space at boot-up.

As it is, the first plaunch opens up a directory window with the three scripts layed out in order, and I click the other two, and good to go.

[geo_c]

Primary Laptop Monitor empty desk

Secondary Work Monitor empty desk

Primary Laptop Monitor after running launch scripts

Secondary Work Monitor after running launch scripts

[MochiMoppel]

May indeed be a timing issue.
Forget your wmctrl for a moment and try to open all your ROX and application windows in one script.
If this works, add a sleep n command with generous n seconds, followed by all necessary wmctrl commands.

It's hard to figure out which is which in your screenshots. Also not knowing your screen resolution I *assume* that

Code: Select all

wmctrl -r my-applications/bin -e 0,1371,-16,71,1070

positions the leftmost strip on your secondary screen. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[geo_c]

May indeed be a timing issue.
Forget your wmctrl for a moment and try to open all your ROX and application windows in one script.
If this works, add a sleep n command with generous n seconds, followed by all necessary wmctrl commands.

It's hard to figure out which is which in your screenshots. Also not knowing your screen resolution I *assume* that

Code: Select all

wmctrl -r my-applications/bin -e 0,1371,-16,71,1070

positions the leftmost strip on your secondary screen. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sleep command, yes that's what I was referring to, I didn't remember what it was called though.

You are correct, that window is the upper left second monitor. And the ROX windows open just fine along with Xfe. It's when it gets to re-sizing Xfe, opening and re-sizing Libre that the script hangs. So adding the sleep command after opening Xfe and once again after opening Libre might do the trick.

[geo_c]

So far not having much luck with the sleep command @MochiMoppel. I get the seconds of pause but the same glitch. I've tried the pause at different points in the script and switch around the opening order, in particular Xfe and Libre, but it basically comes out the same. I'm beginning to think it has to do with Xfe not being 100% JWM, is that a thing? I mean it seems that when Xfe is installed it sort of creates a stripped down xfce element or something. But I probably have that wrong. I realize that doesn't account for Libre's behavior, but I find it odd that a separate execution script of wmctrl works for both of those applications, but not in the same script back to back with run commands. It's almost as if opening those applications causes an exit or abort of the script, but even that isn't exactly logical, because as soon as the ROX windows are closed, POW!, up comes the LibreWolf window. And that's consistent.

But I did reorder the initial script like this:

Code: Select all

rox /root/my-launch
rox /root/my-applications/bin/
rox /root/my-applications/bin/launch/

wmctrl -r my-launch -e 0,967,15,390,732
wmctrl -r my-applications/bin -e 0,1371,-16,71,1070
wmctrl -r bin/launch -e 0,3234,-20,75,1067

/usr/bin/xfe

[williams2]

you can wait for a window to open using xdotool

Maybe wmctrl can do that too?

Like this:

Code: Select all

rox /root/my-launch
xdotool search --sync --name "/root/my-launch"
rox /root/my-applications/bin/
xdotool search --sync --name "/root/my-applications/bin"
rox /root/my-applications/bin/launch/
xdotool search --sync --name "/root/my-applications/bin/launch"
# then maybe a sleep instruction to wait for rox to finish auto resizing
sleep 10

[geo_c]

you can wait for a window to open using xdotool

Maybe wmctrl can do that too?

Like this:

Code: Select all

rox /root/my-launch
xdotool search --sync --name "/root/my-launch"
rox /root/my-applications/bin/
xdotool search --sync --name "/root/my-applications/bin"
rox /root/my-applications/bin/launch/
xdotool search --sync --name "/root/my-applications/bin/launch"
# then maybe a sleep instruction to wait for rox to finish auto resizing
sleep 10

Well that's cool. Now I'm going to be up a couple more hours playing around with this tool. Yeah, that makes sense, instead of just waiting, it looks for the name of the window which should be open. I don't think the hangup comes from ROX, because all the ROX windows open up and resize almost instantaneously, then XFE opens, but it won't resize when a wmctrl command follows. So same thing with Libre, so maybe with xdotool the script will search then initiate the next command.

[MochiMoppel]

Keep it simple and systematic. What happens when you reduce your script to

Code: Select all

rox /root/my-launch
/usr/bin/xfe
/root/my-applications/bin/launch/libre

Do all 3 windows appear? Try to find the combination that does work and then gradually add commands until you get to the point where is doesn't work anymore. That's where the analysis can begin.

I assume that libre and/or xfe are symlinks and that they point to wrapper scripts, which start the applications with an exec command. This would explain why no other commands thereafter have an effect until the started application is closed.