Best cheap laptop for Puppy?

[Texaspilot]

Hey guys, I am looking for a cheap laptop that will run well with puppy, or some other light distro. The main use will be for me to do some scanning, printing and web surfing, as well as continuing my linux learning saga, as well as to give my son something he can start messing with (under supervision) as well. Not looking for heavy duty, just cheap and will run fast (the most important thing being cheap) with some flavor of puppy on it. Thanks in advance for any recommendations.

[bigpup]

If you are talking about a new laptop.
HP makes some called Stream that come with Windows 10s.
If you look around you can find a 14" one for around $200-250 US.
All will have an internal emmc drive 32GB, 64GB, etc..... and 4GB memory.
All will be using some version of a Intel Celeron processor that is duel core. (N3000, 4000, 5000, series)
Being a normal X86 computer, it is fully supported by Puppy Linux.

Delete Windows 10s and only have a version of Puppy Linux installed frugally. (frugal is just the name, it is still the complete Puppy OS, just installed in a special way)
Makes a great Puppy Linux laptop.
Puppy will only need around 500MB of space on the internal drive.

If storage space is an issue on the internal drive.
Can always plug in a micro USB drive, of any size, and micro USB drives, stick out of side of laptop, very little.
Or plug a SD card into the SD card reader.

[JASpup]

Ditto bigpup... mostly.

I was looking at that series too.

I would keep Windows 10, opting out of S mode, and would run Puppy on removable media. I still need my Windows printer utility and you might too.

Might check it out!

[s243a]

Ditto bigpup... mostly.

I was looking at that series too.

I would keep Windows 10, opting out of S mode, and would run Puppy on removable media. I still need my Windows printer utility and you might too.

Might check it out!

If one wants to run puppy on a USB device then for good performance it should be USB 3.0 or later. USB 2.0 is becoming too slow for bloated websites like facebook. Puppy can get around this I/O speed issue to a degree by using ram for a changes folder and at times even load the sfs files to ram.

This has limits though. IIRC, only the sfs file on the original ISO are copied to ram and the save folder is not copied to ram. Also since the save folder is not compressed, more I/O will be needed to copy the files from it to ram then if the files were incorporated into an sfs file.

I'm working on a script to run a browser in ram. See post:

Draft: Run Browser in Ram

[Clarity]

I have multiple grandkids who are in school along with many nieces-nephews in HS/colleges. As well, I am at 2 local universities for various reasons from time to time.

Many oldtimers will erupt in an uproar at this suggestion, but if you take a moment and observe them, you will easily see why I share the following.

In my observation, they all prefer something that they can touch, "ON-SCREEN". So, I would never purchase any laptop that was not a touchscreen laptop for any kid below the age of 21 (beer-drinking age).

This past Christmas, I purchased Lenovo Chromebook Duets for each grandkid. They, today, walk around with them and have discarded the keyboards. They do everything without it, including their math+Science workload.

For the past 2 years, I have taught and advised ALL seniors to get a Chromebook as well. The seniors, My family, & my grandkids have NOT approached me, EVER, since their Chromebook purchase for help OF ANY KIND.

This summer, I will be instructing my grandkids on how to boot their Chromebooks into Puppy LInux. This will be in addition to the in-built Debian that their Chromebooks come standard with. As such it will start them on their way to being able to make and code their way into their future.

I am recommending Chromebooks here because they are cheap, stable, responsive, comes with a ton of storage, and has the ability for YOU to manage what they do: Family functionality is there for you: control while minimizing oversight.

Further, one can easily boot a PUP on the platform.

Unlike Windows & Macs, not one of anyone who has gotten a Chromebook has bothered to ask me a question about the machine, the apps, the performance, or anything associated with the use. Whew! (the machines and its 24x7 support have made me irrelevant)

As the purchaser, your decision will take into account the processor. My personal one (touchscreen Acer) that I have used for past 4 years has a Celeron. The kids have a MediaTek. And the manufacturers also are making AMD processors. For the school work and personal use that the family students do, these low powered choices are perfectly matched as these Chromebooks are speedy. I run the base OS, its Android apps, Linux-Unix apps, as well as run Debian from time to time on my Chromebook. It will be excellent to get the kids started this summer on coding and running Linux apps. And at the end of the summer I should have them advance enough to boot an alternative; namely Puppy Linux. (Google is expected to be adding a "new" Virtual machine function via this Summer of Code. If so, I can have the kids boot and run Puppy like I do, Debian.)

One of the most important factors in my decision was the warranty!

Any Laptop you purchase, today, comes with an OS. So this purchase is no different. And to boot Puppy Linux, you will need to dual boot or 'trash and replace' the OS that comes with it.

This is MY experience. Investigate for yourself.
P.S. I love Puppy Linux and run it on all other units of need.

[JASpup]

You've a project.

3.0 is important for modern computing, but imo Puppy os doesn't need it.

I never run Facebook in Pale Moon, but if I did, both the browser and setting files (cache, etc.) would be in ram.

My browsing bottlenecks are bandwidth (which varies dramatically by external events, wi-fi vs. ethernet, and esoteric browser-specific handicaps revealed by diagnostic services), and CPU. It doesn't appear browser handicaps are storage-media related, but of course all ram would be faster.

Ergo, the only choices I can make are browser, ethernet, and upgrading the machine for a faster CPU.

My small screen Gateway Intel Atom laptop has my favorite keyboard, but it's a hecka lot slower than my 64 desktop. For that reason I deliberately choose slow most of the time.

The laptop series we're talking about here would be a big improvement at a low price. I suspect its keyboard quality somewhere in-between. I'm just too attached to this old banger.

If one wants to run puppy on a USB device then for good performance it should be USB 3.0 or later. USB 2.0 is becoming too slow for bloated websites like facebook. Puppy can get around this I/O speed issue to a degree by using ram for a changes folder and at times even load the sfs files to ram.

This has limits though. IIRC, only the sfs file on the original ISO are copied to ram and the save folder is not copied to ram. Also since the save folder is not compressed, more I/O will be needed to copy the files from it to ram then if the files were incorporated into an sfs file.

I'm working on a script to run a browser in ram. See post:

Draft: Run Browser in Ram

[JASpup]

ChromeOS is about making money with cloud computing.

Google is basically doing what Apple did in the 80s - pushing their machines on the education market. Young people can't see the big picture.

I would consider a dual boot, and touch screen advice makes sense.

Any Laptop you purchase, today, comes with an OS. So this purchase is no different. And to boot Puppy Linux, you will need to dual boot or 'trash and replace' the OS that comes with it.

[ally]

thinkpads

[p310don]

Best value laptop I use for Puppy was found in the bin. That doesn't necessarily mean to go dumpster diving (although I did), but if you can get your hands on a second hand laptop that is less than 5 years old, it will absolutely scream with Puppy on it.

[Feek]

thinkpads

I totally agree. Buying my Thinkpad was the best step I could have taken 8.5 years ago. Puppies run great on it. However, these computers are not among the cheapest...

[backi]

Agree with p310don :

but if you can get your hands on a second hand laptop that is less than 5 years old, it will absolutely scream with Puppy on it.

This is a good Idea.

Before...... i used an old Toshiba (xxxsomething) 1 Gig ram more than 15 Years old.......a real Pain in the Ass.Frustrating Experience and waste of a lot of Time.

Made a bargain with a refurbished Dell Precision M6600 ---17 Inches Monitor (Hd Graphic)----8 gig Ram----2,6 GHZ(up to 3.10 GHZ) .Intel Dual core- i 5 vPro Laptop/Workstation.
More than enough for me.
Did cost me 300 Euros...(new it even cost more than 1500 Bucks).
Bought a cheap 2o Euro 125 Gigbytes SSD and put it in one free Slot.A Hardisk (with Windows was anyway installed) for storing/backupping my Stuff....Do Use Windows extremly seldom....

Use this SSD most only as my Booting Device with Debian/Fossa/Bionic Dog frugal installed on it.
Compared to my Toshiba Oldtimer ......it was like changing from a Donkey Cart to a Ferrari.
Wow ....what a Difference.....it flies like an Eagle.

I am a happy Camper now .......
Regret that i did not made this Deal earlier.
It ain't worth the Trouble using ( to old) under-powered Hardware....in my Opinion.
You can get really top Hardware in Abundance for a fair Price as second Hand Stuff ...or refurbished.......else they often will end up on the Trash or just settling up Dust somewhere.
Never ever would buy "new" Laptop/Desktop again.

[Texaspilot]

Thanks for the advice. I may just start looking for a used laptop. Probably makes the most sense. Ive got puppy on my wife’s old acer with atom processor, and it is reasonable even on that ancient thing. My only concern with a chromebook, or used for that matter is privacy if there is a virus on the old one. Google, on the other hand, i dont trust..,

[bigpup]

ChromeBooks are OK, if you are willing to do what may be needed to get Puppy Linux working on it.
There are so many different ChromeBooks and what is needed, is not the same on all.
May be a little easier, on the very newest ChromeBooks.

Getting Puppy Linux to boot from a USB drive or SD card, plugged into a ChromeBook, is not very hard.
Depends on the bios firmware it is using, but it is simple steps you may need to do.

Totally replacing the the OS, on the internal drive, and only having Puppy on it, again depends on the bios firmware.
To get total control of all features, is a little harder with Puppy. This really depends on what Puppy version you are going to use.

I have a HP 14 ChromeBook totally made into a Puppy only laptop.
Works great, but it was not a simple swap out of the operating system.

This is info for ChromeBooks:
viewtopic.php?f=156&t=431

[mouldy]

Watch out on used chromebooks, if they are from school or business where they were locked down (managed) to keep kids and employees from tampering or using them for unapproved activities, they may not gotten properly liberated when resold. You cant unlock them yourself unless they are like first generation, maybe second generation. You would have to get previous owner that had administration/root powers to do this. This how shall I say is unlikely if you are buying from say ebay. Ebay sellers usually buy in bulk in varying condition and then resell with a markup. So check if it can go into development mode before buying a used one. If it wont, then its still managed.

The late model HP Stream (win10 version) and similar competitors with 4GB RAM and preferably a 64GB eMMC are good bet. With Puppy or other smaller linux even the 32GB eMMC is ok depending on your needs. Windows fills this with its continuous updates in less than a year. Watch out for bad battery on these, its EXPENSIVE and a hassle to replace.

Now if you want cheap-cheap, look for oldest 2 core laptops that still function, there were some that originally had XP/Vista. Most, not all, 2 core can do at least 4GB RAM. Even linux software is getting RAM hungry anymore. Oh Puppy can boot fine on far less, but try opening more than a few tabs in modern browser.... Be aware Intel made CoreDuo processors that are two core but can only run a 32bit system. Intell Core2Duo can do 64bit. These are still fine but linux is moving away from 32bit. As point of interest, Intel also made some hyperthreaded single core processors that can run 64bit system. I have an old desktop like this. Its slow booting cause you are asking a single core processor to do the work of a dual core processor. But once booted they do ok. Its my dedicated tax software computer. Usually only booted once a year. This was a marketing gimmick back in the day, though really it does work and will boot a 64bit system. It originally had XP, but when tax software started needing later version of windows, I installed an unactivated version win10, it does fine, I could care less if I can change desktop wallpaper.... and I blocked it phoning home for updates.

It comes down to what your particular needs are. Lot old computer with maxed out RAM and a small SSD are still usable, though I personally wouldnt buy a single core processor computer. But if you dumpster dive or somebody gives you one out of their attic, hey nothing to lose trying it. You will find the early dual core computers are just as cheap. Oh and you find one, before using it check fan and clean out the air duct. Reseat the heatsink with new thermal goo. This maintenance is almost never done and will be difference in longevity. Oh and while you have it opened up you might want to replace the CMOS battery. It will be obvious this needs to be done if date is way off in bios. But honest the batteries are cheap and on many laptops its painful to open whole thing up just to replace these. A few laptops, especially the business ones made this trivial. But lot of them its anything but trivial to get access.

Oh and if you care about portability, most likely older laptops will have a marginal battery. Some laptops its really cheap to replace battery , some its EXPENSIVE. If its important to you CHECK BEFORE YOU BUY. Modern laptops have went to internal flat batteries where you have to take case apart to get to it. And you will find these are NOT CHEAP. That HP Stream mentioned, a replacement battery, just the battery will be over $50.

Oh and try to avoid the tablet with keyboard kind of netbook/cloudbook. These tend to require a working battery, one with charge in order to boot, even if you have it plugged in. Big hint this is a problem is if you look at the charger and its 5V. Most regular laptops are 19V with some 16V. And very few 12V (usually only really old laptops). Oh and Dells will put you through hell if they detect a non-Dell power supply. Maybe some others like that by now. They want to force you to buy spare batteries and chargers from THEM at highly inflated prices. The older Dells like this you could turn off this nonsense in bios. Not sure on newer ones. Oh and usually even if you get warning this battery wont charge, usually it will, but again they may have started putting more teeth into this scare tactic. You just have to try it and find out unfortunately.

[JASpup]

The late model HP Stream (win10 version) and similar competitors with 4GB RAM and preferably a 64GB eMMC are good bet. With Puppy or other smaller linux even the 32GB eMMC is ok depending on your needs. Windows fills this with its continuous updates in less than a year. Watch out for bad battery on these, its EXPENSIVE and a hassle to replace.

[snip]

Oh and if you care about portability, most likely older laptops will have a marginal battery. Some laptops its really cheap to replace battery , some its EXPENSIVE. If its important to you CHECK BEFORE YOU BUY. Modern laptops have went to internal flat batteries where you have to take case apart to get to it. And you will find these are NOT CHEAP. That HP Stream mentioned, a replacement battery, just the battery will be over $50.

Batteries can be the #1 reason to avoid a used laptop. New ones seem to requiring condition. Chemistry.

I'm screaming right now on my fast machine, but my usual old banger has a battery I didn't even use before it went dead.

[williwaw]

thinkpads

:)

:thumbup2: I totally agree. Buying my Thinkpad was the best step I could have taken 8.5 years ago. Puppies run great on it. However, these computers are not among the cheapest...

T series thinkpads seem to hold up well

[bark-woof-fetch]

I'm running 10+ Firefox tabs in RAM on a 2010 Asus ultrabook, 6GB RAM Celeron SU2300 @ 1.20GHz dino. 9 cell battery spectacular btw, easily 5-6 hours on it still, fast charging as well

The fan will fire up during video playback, otherwise fairly quiet.

Agree in general on the Chromebooks, had the lenovo n20p for a while, flip over touch screen hinge, not the nicest display quality but super leightweight and fanless and cheap. Being used as a kid school laptop now by school kid #3.

Agree on touchscreen also in particular for anything with media apps, both for rough input (without digitizer) and hands-on settings like photo and audio editing parameters on knobs, sliders, etc.

My criterias for another would be:

1. display quality, glare/mat, 720p to 1080p, inbetween is fine

2. fan noise, TDP and PSU wattage (depending on off-grid req. usage)

3. battery capacity, charging time, replacement price

4. keyboard quality, odd layouts, dead keys, replacement options (can be re-ordered in OS ofc)

5. disk and RAM upgrade options

6. USB ports (minimum 2) and speed, if you don't mind slightly slower boot and session saves USB 2 is perfectly fine

[Dingo]

T series thinkpads seem to hold up well

I have a series L thinkpad (lenovo thinkpad L440) and I have a strange issue with Xenialpup 64 7.5 CE. As written here:
viewtopic.php?p=16388#p16388
Every 64 bit browser that is either based on chromium or on Vivaldi, shows blurred images, while with the same puppy version (Xenialpup 7.5 CE, 32 bit) the same browsers, in their 32 bit build, shows images clear an crisp

So, it is either something weird with my Intel HD4600 integrated graphic card and 64 bit version of Xenialpup, either some other issue

[JASpup]

I have a series L thinkpad (lenovo thinkpad L440) and I have a strange issue with Xenialpup 64 7.5 CE. As written here:
viewtopic.php?p=16388#p16388
Every 64 bit browser that is either based on chromium or on Vivaldi, shows blurred images, while with the same puppy version (Xenialpup 7.5 CE, 32 bit) the same browsers, in their 32 bit build, shows images clear an crisp

So, it is either something weird with my Intel HD4600 integrated graphic card and 64 bit version of Xenialpup, either some other issue

Vivaldi is also Chromium-based. It's just the only one they morphed into a sexy Italian.

What does a j-peg look like in Viewnior?

[amethyst]

T series thinkpads seem to hold up well

I have a series L thinkpad (lenovo thinkpad L440) and I have a strange issue with Xenialpup 64 7.5 CE. As written here:
viewtopic.php?p=16388#p16388
Every 64 bit browser that is either based on chromium or on Vivaldi, shows blurred images, while with the same puppy version (Xenialpup 7.5 CE, 32 bit) the same browsers, in their 32 bit build, shows images clear an crisp

So, it is either something weird with my Intel HD4600 integrated graphic card and 64 bit version of Xenialpup, either some other issue

Did you check if the 2 systems booted with the same assigned graphics driver?

[Dingo]

Did you check if the 2 systems booted with the same assigned graphics driver?

Where do logs are stored so I can compare?

[amethyst]

Did you check if the 2 systems booted with the same assigned graphics driver?

Where do logs are stored so I can compare?

Run Pup-SysInfo from menu > Devices > Display

[Dingo]

@amethyst it seems they use the very same driver, so the fault is not here if I am right

xenialpup64 7.5

Code: Select all

Display Specifications:
• Monitor VertRefresh: 60.00 times/s
• Screen Dimensions: 1366x768 pixels (361x203 millimeters)
• Screen Depth: 24 bits (planes)

Xorg Startup Log (/var/log/Xorg.0.log):
• Xorg Driver in use: intel
• Loaded Modules: dbe dri2 fbdevhw glx kbd mouse present synaptics
• X.Org version: 1.18.4

OpenGL 2D/3D Rendering:
• Direct Rendering: Yes
• Vendor: Intel Open Source Technology Center
• Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel(R) Haswell Mobile 
• Version: 3.0 Mesa 17.0.7

VGA controller [0300]: Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:0416] (rev 06)
• Kernel Driver: i915
• Memory Used by Driver: 1050.39 KB
• Path: /lib/modules/4.9.58/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915.ko
• Description: Intel Graphics
• Video RAM: 256M

Xenialpup 32 bit

Code: Select all

Display Specifications:
• Monitor VertRefresh: 60.00 times/s
• Screen Dimensions: 1366x768 pixels (361x203 millimeters)
• Screen Depth: 24 bits (planes)

Xorg Startup Log (/var/log/Xorg.0.log):
• Xorg Driver in use: intel
• Loaded Modules: dbe dri2 fbdevhw glx kbd mouse present synaptics
• X.Org version: 1.18.4

OpenGL 2D/3D Rendering:
• Direct Rendering: Yes
• Vendor: Intel Open Source Technology Center
• Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel(R) Haswell Mobile x86/MMX/SSE2
• Version: 3.0 Mesa 17.0.7

VGA controller [0300]: Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:0416] (rev 06)
• Kernel Driver: i915
• Memory Used by Driver: 834.61 KB
• Path: /lib/modules/4.1.30/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915.ko
• Description: Intel Graphics
• Video RAM: 256M

Code: Select all

▶—— Video Hardware Report ——◀

▶ VIDEO CARD:

VGA controller: Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 06) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
Subsystem: Lenovo Device 501e
Flags: bus master, fast device select, latency 0
Interrupt Request (IRQ): 26
Memory at f0000000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4M]
Memory at e0000000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M]
I/O ports at 5000 [size=64]
Expansion ROM at <unassigned> [disabled]
--
Kernel Driver:  i915
Kernel modules: i915
Memory Used:    834.61 KB
Path:           /lib/modules/4.1.30/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915.ko
Description:    Intel Graphics
Dependencies:   drm_kms_helper, drm, i2c-algo-bit
Used by:        3

--
Direct Rendering: Yes
OpenGL Vendor: Intel Open Source Technology Center
OpenGL Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel(R) Haswell Mobile x86/MMX/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 3.0 Mesa 17.0.7

▶ X-SERVER SCREEN INFORMATION:

Name of display:  :0
Version number:  11.0
Vendor string:  The X.Org Foundation
Vendor release number:  11804000
X.Org version: 1.18.4
Number of extensions:  28
  BIG-REQUESTS
  Composite
  DAMAGE
  DOUBLE-BUFFER
  DPMS
  DRI2
  GLX
  Generic Event Extension
  MIT-SCREEN-SAVER
  MIT-SHM
  Present
  RANDR
  RECORD
  RENDER
  SECURITY
  SGI-GLX
  SHAPE
  SYNC
  X-Resource
  XC-MISC
  XFIXES
  XFree86-DGA
  XFree86-VidModeExtension
  XINERAMA
  XInputExtension
  XKEYBOARD
  XTEST
  XVideo
Default screen number:  0
Number of screens:  1

Screen #0:
  dimensions:  1366x768 pixels (361x203 millimeters)
  resolution:  96x96 dots per inch
  depths (7):  24, 1, 4, 8, 15, 16, 32
  root window id:  0xd7
  depth of root window:  24 planes

[amethyst]

If everything else (besides the specific browser) displays correctly, it's probably a software (browser) problem. I don't use the browsers you do so can't assist further in that regard.

[Dingo]

If everything else (besides the specific browser) displays correctly, it's probably a software (browser) problem. I don't use the browsers you do so can't assist further in that regard.

Palemoon works fine in xenialpup64

[bigpup]

It is not good to high jack a topic.

This is a topic on, what cheap laptop for Puppy Linux, do you people know about.

[wizard]

I have installed puppy dpup stretch 7.5rc5 and fossapup64 9.5 on probably a dozen used laptops. HP, Lenovo, Compaq, and Dell, The oldest was a Dell D620 from 2006, installed fossapup64, runs very fast. In the US these are easy to find and not expensive. Here are some tips on buying:

--Only consider dual core with 64 bit cpu, Intel or AMD, you can look up on the web
--avoid any model with nvidia graphics, all manufacturers had overheating and board failures with those chips
--get at least 2gb of ram, you can purchase additional ram on ebay if needed, cost is reasonable
--Wipe the hard drive and re-partition (gparted) using a bootable puppy cd or usb, this erases anything bad that came with the drive

New batteries for these older models sell on ebay for $10-$15 US.

These computers are not light weight or as sleek as the new models, but their power certainly runs puppy very well.

wizard

[Grey]

--avoid any model with nvidia graphics, all manufacturers had overheating and board failures with those chips

Heh. Smells like a conspiracy theory. Nvidia is 100% defective, and at this time Intel and AMD have grown wings and the whole team in white clothes... (ღ˘⌣˘ღ)

[JASpup]

--get at least 2gb of ram, you can purchase additional ram on ebay if needed, cost is reasonable

This forum runs fine with 2gb (32 Chrome) with a couple accessory apps, but anything new less than four wouldn't be useful to me these days.

I can't read my local paper and barley navigate mobile Zuckedworld with 2gb machines.

[mikewalsh]

Well, now....

I'm not really the best one to give advice on this subject. Always been a desktop man, always will be......far more scope for upgrading!

The old Compaq desktop I inherited from my younger sis when XP went EOL gave 6 years of trouble-free computing, running with 3 GB DDR1 RAM. When it finally expired January last year, I went for a new one; an HP Pavilion with a dual-core (with H/T = 4-core) Pentium Gold G5400 @ 3.7 GHz. Came with 4 GB OOTB; this immediately went to 8 GB, then over the course of last year first upgraded to 16 GB, then 32 GB. Not really a Puppy box anymore, though you'll not catch me running anything else.

Puppy's feet don't touch the ground on this thing! It FLIES.

I still have the only laptop we ever had; an ancient Dell Inspiron 1100 that's nearly 20 yrs old. P4, 1.5 GB DDR1.....bit like watching paint dry, really, but still keeps going.....been upgraded so far it's own mother wouldn't recognise it by now, including an IDE/PATA 64 GB SSD. Best keyboard I've ever come across, though I spilt half a cup of coffee down the right-hand side a few years ago, and it's never really recovered. Replacement units can be had, but they are going for ridiculous amounts. Shame, really.

------------------

I second mouldy's advice about the Core2Duos. These have always worked well with Linux of any flavour, and there's still any number of Dell Latitudes about with these CPUs. They make very good Puppy boxes, from what I understand.

Mike.