Pale Moon 'portable' browsers - 32- & 64-bit

[amethyst]

Thanks, Mike. I can confirm that the update of that file did the trick.

[amethyst]

@amethyst
I expect Mike will correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's got more to do with what I have added to Racy. I'm replying from a phone just now but later this afternoon I'll list what's added if that would be of interest to you.

Regards,

Ken.

Okay. No, it's fine. I couldn't get the very latest running with Precise so that's why I asked. I'm still using a version which is just a few months old so no need for a change really.

[mikewalsh]

@amethyst :-

When it began 'playing-up', a few releases back, I noticed 'libstdc++.so.6' was mentioned in the terminal readout.

I know Tobin over at Moonchild Productions had been upgrading their build-system. I also know Steve Pusser compiles/builds this in OpenSuse. I haven't got a clue how OpenSuse (or Tobin's CentOS) relate to our 'buntu/Slackware bases, release for release. All I know is that, with some experimenting, Xenial 7.5's 'libstdc++.so.6' seemed to do the trick, so for now that's what I'm using...

I remembered watchdog using this trick for something greengeek & I were tring out a few years back, so I 'boned up' on how it was accomplished at that time. The same 'workaround' still does the trick, I'm pleased to say.

(This 'tweaking' is an on-going process. It'll never come to an end, but at least small, comprehensible 'tweaks' I can handle..! And I don't expect too many problems over the next several releases, since Tobin says he's sticking with this upgraded build-system for the forseeable future...

Yeah, and I've heard sparrows fart before now..!)

We shall see.

Mike.

[keniv]

@amethyst
OK, Glad you've still got a pretty up to date version running on Precise.

Ken.

[amethyst]

@amethyst
OK, Glad you've still got a pretty up to date version running on Precise.

Ken.

Got the latest running, just needed the file mike was talking about. Ripped it from Bionic.

[amethyst]

@mikewalsh - Then I broke Pupdial because I deleted the previous version 5 of that file. Had to add the version 5 again, but everything (well at least the dialup and the latest Palemoon) works now. So I suppose as we go along that file will propably have to be updated again as newer Palemoon versions surface.

[keniv]

Got the latest running, just needed the file mike was talking about. Ripped it from Bionic.

Good, glad to hear it works in another older puppy.

Ken.

[amethyst]

The latest Seamonkey also works after adding that file.

[mikewalsh]

You can be sure of one thing, of that I'm certain. Despite the vehement protestations from both the Pale Moon & SeaMonkey camps, about how they have their own visions and philosophy, etc., etc., I can almost guarantee they keep an eagle eye on each other's 'projects', as well as those of other 'zilla-based browsers.

These guys aren't daft. They all have a fairly good idea of how kernel development & GNU tool development is going, and will be more aware than most as to when things will need upgrading.....AND why.

Almost certainly this (and other items) will need upgrading again at some point, going forwards. It's a case of "when", NOT "if".

It may be time for me to put together another 'glibc-tweaked' portable of Pale Moon, sometime soon.....another great workaround for which we have watchdog to thank.

Mike.

[amethyst]

You can be sure of one thing, of that I'm certain. Despite the vehement protestations from both the Pale Moon & SeaMonkey camps, about how they have their own visions and philosophy, etc., etc., I can almost guarantee they keep an eagle eye on each other's 'projects', as well as those of other 'zilla-based browsers.

These guys aren't daft. They all have a fairly good idea of how kernel development & GNU tool development is going, and will be more aware than most as to when things will need upgrading.....AND why.

Almost certainly this (and other items) will need upgrading again at some point, going forwards. It's a case of "when", NOT "if".

It may be time for me to put together another 'glibc-tweaked' portable of Pale Moon, sometime soon.....another great workaround for which we have watchdog to thank.

Mike.

I've just checked with the standard issue of Precise 571. Installed a glibc2.20.pet which I had in my "library" (about 2MB), updated that libstdc6 file (there was an older libstdc6 which I removed). Latest Palemoon works. So for Palemoon at least, very easy to get working which is quite impressive.

[mikewalsh]

@amethyst:-

I'm glad somebody is able to test that out. I can no longer do so; due to the UEFI on this Pavilion mid-tower desktop, I can't run anything earlier than Tahrpup.....the sodding BIOS simply won't LET me..!

Mike.

[amethyst]

That's of course for the very latest Palemoon. I know that up to version 28.16 (which really is only a few months old) runs OOTB with the standard Precise 571 without any tweaking needed at all. So, Palemoon in general seems to be a good choice for older Puppys as far as getting it working at least.

[amethyst]

@amethyst:-

I'm glad somebody is able to test that out. I can no longer do so; due to the UEFI on this Pavilion mid-tower desktop, I can't run anything earlier than Tahrpup.....the sodding BIOS simply won't LET me..!

Mike.

Could be kernel/firmware related. If you are able to run Tahr, chances are good that you may be able to run Racy and Precise with Tahr's kernel (that's what I do anyhow).

[keniv]

I've just checked with the standard issue of Precise 571. Installed a glibc2.20.pet which I had in my "library" (about 2MB), updated that libstdc6 file (there was an older libstdc6 which I removed). Latest Palemoon works. So for Palemoon at least, very easy to get working which is quite impressive.

I've got the glibc2.20.pet installed in Racy. I've also got libstdc++.so.6 from portable palemoon. I have another copy of libstdc++.so.6 in /usr/lib/ which is older. I guess it came from the palemoon-28.7.1-glibc219tweak.pet I was using. I guess this might explain why it's working in my version of Racy.

Ken.

[mikewalsh]

@amethyst:-

I'm glad somebody is able to test that out. I can no longer do so; due to the UEFI on this Pavilion mid-tower desktop, I can't run anything earlier than Tahrpup.....the sodding BIOS simply won't LET me..!

Mike.

Could be kernel/firmware related. If you are able to run Tahr, chances are good that you may be able to run Racy and Precise with Tahr's kernel (that's what I do anyhow).

Nah, it's not kernel-related, unfortunately. It's at the BIOS level; whenever I try to boot an older Puppy, it always fails with "looking for VESA BIOS extensions". This thing uses UEFI, not a traditional BIOS; those extensions simply don't exist on my hardware. Stat.

Mike.

[amethyst]

I've just checked with the standard issue of Precise 571. Installed a glibc2.20.pet which I had in my "library" (about 2MB), updated that libstdc6 file (there was an older libstdc6 which I removed). Latest Palemoon works. So for Palemoon at least, very easy to get working which is quite impressive.

I've got the glibc2.20.pet installed in Racy. I've also got libstdc++.so.6 from portable palemoon. I have another copy of libstdc++.so.6 in /usr/lib/ which is older. I guess it came from the palemoon-28.7.1-glibc219tweak.pet I was using. I guess this might explain why it's working in my version of Racy.

Ken.

I used the same updates with Racy but I put it in a bdrv. So the bdrv basically contains the contents of the glibc2.20.pet and the new libstdc6 file (and it's shortcut file). I've removed the old libstdc6 files but I don't think it's necessary. Latest Palemoon runs fine. Time to dust of my 65MB Racy Puppy and play with it a bit.

[amethyst]

Okay, so for fun I ripped glibc2.27 from Bionic with one of my utilities, packaged it with the addition of the new libstdc6 files as an additional drive. Works with Racy and latest Palemoon running smoothly. It may be possible to run other newer versions of applications on Racy with this upgrade although I haven't explored it. I can upload the package if anyone is interested, it's about 4MB.

[keniv]

@amethyst
Glad you got this working with Racy in a different way. I like the portable as I can use one install with three pups. Is a bdrv similar to an advr or a zdvr that loads at boot up. I've been told what I'm about to ask would be very difficult so please excuse me if this is a stupid question but could what you've done work with Lucid 5287? I don't know whether Lucid can work with a bdvr. Perhaps it's too old. Also if you're now going to use Racy I've found this site useful though you may already know it.
https://racypup.netlify.app/

Ken.

[amethyst]

@amethyst
Glad you got this working with Racy in a different way. I like the portable as I can use one install with three pups. Is a bdrv similar to an advr or a zdvr that loads at boot up. I've been told what I'm about to ask would be very difficult so please excuse me if this is a stupid question but could what you've done work with Lucid 5287? I don't know whether Lucid can work with a bdvr. Perhaps it's too old. Also if you're now going to use Racy I've found this site useful though you may already know it.
https://racypup.netlify.app/

Ken.

The upgrade is packaged as an sfs and booted as an additional drive. Yes, a bdrv is like an adrv and boots "on top" of the base sfs (has preference to). The base sfs has preference to the zdrv. The adrv and ydrv have been introduced with Tahr Puppy if I'm not mistaken so it has only been available since then. To add even more additional drives like a bdrv requires modification of initrd.gz. For the general user it will probably be better to release the glibc upgrade as a .pet so it can be installed. The result will be similar to booting it as an additional drive. Don't know if it would work with Lucid which is even older than Racy (if you installed it as a .pet). No, the additional drives won't work with Lucid. My Racy runs with the Tahr kernel so that I have the additional drives capabilities. Yes, I'm aware of the Racy site and have contributed some stuff there in the past.

[keniv]

@amethyst

The upgrade is packaged as an sfs and booted as an additional drive

I think this makes it similar to the portable version in that it could be used in more than one 32 bit puppy with a single install. I'm not surprised there's doubt about whether it would work with Lucid but I thought it was worth asking.

Thanks again,

Ken.

[amethyst]

@amethyst

The upgrade is packaged as an sfs and booted as an additional drive

I think this makes it similar to the portable version in that it could be used in more than one 32 bit puppy with a single install. I'm not surprised there's doubt about whether it would work with Lucid but I thought it was worth asking.

Thanks again,

Ken.

You don't need a portable version to use the same version (and configuration) for more than one Puppy. For instance Palemoon packaged as an sfs > load the sfs and run Palemoon > move the .moonchild productions folder from /root to your linux partition (location of your choice) > symlink the folder back to /root. Now all you need to do when using another Puppy to use the same configuration > load the Palemoon sfs > symlink the .moonchild productions folder from your linux partition to /root of your running Puppy BEFORE RUNNING PALEMOON > run Palemoon. You only need to do the symlinking once provided that you save your session changes after the first time you did the symlinking.

[amethyst]

There may still be some confusion about what is needed to get the latest Palemoon running on an old Puppy like Racy. I have seen some huge upgrade packages for download which is unnecessary. So I made a .pet (3MB) to include the necessary. Download link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wAHAKE ... sp=sharing

[keniv]

There may still be some confusion about what is needed to get the latest Palemoon running on an old Puppy like Racy. I have seen some huge upgrade packages for download which is unnecessary. So I made a .pet (3MB) to include the necessary. Download link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wAHAKE ... sp=sharing

OK, to try this in Lucid 5287 I made a new clean save file. I then downloaded and installed your .pet from your link. I download and installed palemoon_2.9.0-1.gtk2_i386.deb from the link given earlier in this thread. However, it did not work. Below is the output from running in a terminal.

Code: Select all

# /usr/share/applications/palemoon.desktop
-sh: /usr/share/applications/palemoon.desktop: Permission denied
# 

Not sure why I get "Permission denied" in puppy when running as root. Any ideas as to where to go from here?

Regards,

Ken.

[amethyst]

@keniv - does it run when you just type 'palemoon' in terminal? I see the desktop file has an array of switches. Also make sure that there are no previous instances of Palemoon. Other than that I don't know. Lucid is OLD, may need more dependencies or it just may be a bridge too far and that's it. Works for me with Racy and Precise.

[keniv]

@amethyst

does it run when you just type 'palemoon' in terminal?

Here's what I get.

Code: Select all

# palemoon
XPCOMGlueLoad error for file /usr/lib/palemoon/libxul.so:
libxcb-shm.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Couldn't load XPCOM.

In the version of Lucid I have running palemoon 28.9.02 I can find these files. Please see attached images. In image pfind-1 libxcb-shm.so.0 is shown as a symbolic link to libxcb-shm.so.0.0.0. I could copy these files over to the the clean save file I'm using to run your .pet and the palemoon .deb but I think this might turn into a dependencies chase or as you say

or it just may be a bridge too far and that's it.

.
I might try copying these file over but I think if that doesn't work I'll give up.

Regards,

Ken.

[amethyst]

Major changes have taken place with Palemoon since version 28.17 onwards. Your old glibc2.19 is too old for the latest version and it seems you are missing dependencies. I think you are stuck, move on to a newer Puppy if you want to use the latest Palemoon. Racy is probably the oldest Puppy to run the new version.

[keniv]

@amethyst

move on to a newer Puppy if you want to use the latest Palemoon.

Yes have already done this with some 64 bit pups as well as a dog but I have to admit I still like Racy and Lucid so it was worth a try. I'm quite pleased, not to say surprised, that it can be got to work in Racy as I still use it.

Regards,

Ken.

[mikewalsh]

Major changes have taken place with Palemoon since version 28.17 onwards. Your old glibc2.19 is too old for the latest version and it seems you are missing dependencies. I think you are stuck, move on to a newer Puppy if you want to use the latest Palemoon. Racy is probably the oldest Puppy to run the new version.

Mm. I tend to agree.

Glibc and libstdc++ development tend to keep pace with each other, so given that the libstdc++.so.6 from Xenial 7.5 is functioning okay, I would "guesstimate" that the newest versions are probably being compiled under glibc 2.23/2.24. It adds up.

(At the same time, though, I still find myself agreeing with Ken. Older Pups ARE great fun to play around with, there's no getting away from that..!)

I'd love to resurrect Darry's 'Phoenix' take on 4.3.1 (that's a FUN Puppy), but on this hardware..? Uhh....nope; ain't going to happen, I'm afraid...

(*damn..!*)

Mike.

[keniv]

@mikewalsh

(At the same time, though, I still find myself agreeing with Ken. Older Pups are still great fun to play around with, there's no getting away from that..!)

I also think they're easier to use in many ways though I admit this might be a lot to do with familiarity. In my quest to update myself and find a modern puppy I like I've tried a number of 64 bit pups and two 32 bit. My favourite of all of these is DpupStretch a 32bit pup. My second favourite is another 32 bit pup. Of course this is not really a solution as it does not get me away from the issue of up to date 32 bit browsers. I have a feeling that at least some of the 64 bit pups are more for the expert and less for someone who would class themselves as a user like myself. However, as a saving grace, I do quite like BusterDog 64 bit so all is not lost. Just my tuppence worth.

Ken.

[mikewalsh]

@keniv :-

I'll be honest, I have been "playing around" with it in Lucid this afternoon. (I fired ye anciente Dell up for the job, creating a new USB install of Lucid for the purpose.) I discovered the lack of the libxcb items myself.

I'd created a 2.27 glibc 'upgrade' a while back - borrowed from UPupBB - but even with the appropriate libstdc++ built-in, and a glibc-tweaked version of Palemoon knocked together, it still wasn't having it; kept coming up with a segfault, and the old 'XPCom glue-load' error. Also kept mentioning that it in fact wanted Glibc-2.28 as a minimum.....

I don't know of any 32-bit Puppy that's using newer than 2.27.

I think, Ken, the only way you'll get the newest Palemoon running issue-free in Lucid is to do it the way I did, year before last.....doubtless Nic (amethyst) will disagree with me.....but I think running it from a newer, 'chrooted' Puppy is the simplest method for doing so without aggravation (because it'll have all matching, newer components).

How much RAM does your Lucid machine have? 2 GB? 4 GB? (4 GB would be better, because with a chroot you're essentially running one Puppy inside another; like a VM, but without a VM's complications). And you could run the 'chroot' from a flashdrive...!

Just an idea, like.

Mike.