Installing Puppy on a new modern compputer; many questions...

[MrAccident]

Right now there's 1 problem; but I anticipate one - every step of the way. :-J
I want to use a USB-drive for the first time to install. In this page http://puppylinux.com/install.html there's a link to this tutorial https://www.toolbox.com/tech/how-to/blo ... nd-030915/ where it says to put cd ~/Downloads command in Terminal, where "Downloads" is the folder where the ISO file is.
So here's my result (I tried with and without "/" in the end):

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 root# cd ~/mnt/sda5/BionicPup/
bash: cd: /root/mnt/sda5/BionicPup/: No such file or directory
root# cd ~/mnt/sda5/BionicPup
bash: cd: /root/mnt/sda5/BionicPup: No such file or directory

[Jafadmin]

Try:

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 root# cd /mnt/sda5/BionicPup/

No '~'

[taersh]

This

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~/mnt/sda5/BionicPup/

exactly means

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/root/mnt/sda5/BionicPup/

as

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~

is the short form for

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/root

or even

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$HOME

[bigpup]

Try installing to a USB by using one of the installer programs shown in this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=156&t=157

[MrAccident]

OK, actually worked pretty smoothly so far.
Now I want to format the drive to ext4 with GParted; for frugal install. I want to allocate 10GB to Puppy, and the rest to files. My question is - is there something else I should allocate space to? I remember there was something else; maybe instead of RAM memory, if that is not enough. BTW - it's on a new computer, with 8GB RAM instead of the 2GB now.

[bigpup]

General statements make it hard to understand what you have done and what you want to do.

OK, actually worked pretty smoothly so far.

What specifically worked??

Now I want to format the drive to ext4 with GParted;

What drive??

BTW - it's on a new computer, with 8GB RAM instead of the 2GB now.

What is on the new computer??

Specific answers will follow, when we specifically understand what you are trying to do.

You are our eyes.
We only know and understand what you tell us!

[MrAccident]

bigpup:

What specifically worked??

Writing the ISO file to USB-drive, and booting to it.

What drive??

The drive of the new computer.

What is on the new computer??

The drive I want to format, divide to 2 virtual drives: one for Puppy, and the other for other things.
So the only thing I want to know at this stage ― is whether with GParted - to allocate space for something other than the 2 virtual drives. P.S. - I remembered I allocated space for something called swap files; so do I need that, or something else?

[bigpup]

We need to know if this 8GB memory computer has UEFI or legacy bios?
Make and model will tell us or year made?

Is Puppy Linux the only operating system that will be on the computer?

whether with GParted - to allocate space for something other than the 2 virtual drives.

Maybe you are just getting terminology wrong.
This indicates you are using some version of virtual computer software?
If yes.

There is a much easier way to install Puppy alongside another operating system.

Again answers to above questions can allow us to give you better info.

If computer has 8GB of memory.
A swap partition of swap file is not needed by Puppy Linux.
Unless you are going to be doing some very, very, very, high memory demanding stuff.
Normal software, run in Puppy, is hardly using more than 1GB of memory, unless you have a lot of programs running.
Even then, it may push up to using 3 or 4 GB of memory.

[MrAccident]

bigpup:
The computer - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002 ... 3f6ablBNhY I chose "1TB NVMe SSD" and "8GB DDR4 RAM"
BionicPup-64 will be the only OS.

virtual drives... Maybe..getting terminology wrong

Maybe it's called "virtual partitions", or just "partitions"; for instance - now I have one physical drive, and sda1 where Puppy is installed, and sda5 where all my files are.. so I want the same.
So I understand that 8GB of memory ― is enough. The only heavy thing I can think of ― is Krita. Haven't tried yet ― but I think that the paintings will be rather simple. So I won't make a swap space.

[MrAccident]

Another problem. When clicking "Puppy Installer", then on "Universal Installer" ― I get the message:

UEFI is not supported. This is useful only if you want to install to a drive which will not be booted on this machine.

Does this mean - I can't install on this machine? If so - I can only boot from the USB-drive, and I can save the OS files on the machine?

[bigpup]

why are you going to use Bionicpup on this computer?
The newest Puppy version Fossapup64 9.5 would be much better to use.

Puppy Installer", then on "Universal Installer" ― I get the message:
UEFI is not supported. This is useful only if you want to install to a drive which will not be booted on this machine.

It is saying the Puppy Universal Installer is not setup to do installs on UEFI computers.

WE now have an installer that can install to UEFI computers and setup the correct boot loader for them.
Frugalpup Installer.
http://www.fishprogs.software/puppy/fru ... index.html

You can download and load it into the Bionicpup you boot from the USB.
Frugalpup Installer is packaged as a sfs.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/qd0iegdk ... 0.sfs/file
Download to /mnt/home
Load it by using the program sfs-load-on-the-fly
After being loaded.
It will have a entry in menu->Setup to run it by.
Just use the main Frugalpup program to do everything with.
The puppy button does installs.
The boot button installs the boot loader.

So you do the Puppy frugal install.
Then you install a boot loader to boot it.

now I have one physical drive, and sda1 where Puppy is installed, and sda5 where all my files are.. so I want the same.

If you are sure you do not want to keep Windows 10 on the internal drive.
Totally only have Puppy Linux on it.

I think I know already how the drive is setup.
So you could use it as is and maybe make some partition adjustments on the end of the drive.
If you could tell us exactly what is on the internal drive for partitions and their format.
We can go from there.
Gparted program can give you the info.

If you want to totally start over fresh.
Boot with the Bionicpup USB.
Run Gparted program choosing the internal drive as the drive to work on.
MAKE VERY SURE THIS IS THE DRIVE YOU SELECT. This is going to delete everything on drive.
Select device->Create partition table.
Choose GPT
Now start making partitions.
1st one a small 300MB in size, formatted fat 32, flagged boot. (this will be the boot partition and the boot loader goes on it)
(this is a UEFI requirement to have this small fat32 partition as a boot partition)

The rest of the drive you can partition and format as you like.
but I suggest making the second partition 100GB and formatting it ext 3 or 4. (do Puppy frugal installs on it)
with a 1TB drive do make several additional partitions, using up all the unallocated space.

So, with this drive setup.
Use frugalpup installer to do frugal installs of Puppy to the second partition or any of the other partitions.
Install the UEFI boot loader to the small first partition. That is all that goes on this first partition, the boot loader.

Here is some info on using Frugalpup Installer:

Run Frugalpup Installer main program.
On the main window are selection buttons.
Select the Puppy button, to do the install.
Go through install process, selecting to install to the ext formatted partition.
Note:
When selecting the partition to install to.
A window pops up, giving option to make a directory, to put the frugal install in.
I make this directory and usually name it, the name of the Puppy version.
Carefully read that windows info.
Press enter, makes the directory, not the OK button.
complete the install.

When it gets back to the main Frugalpup window.
Select the boot button.
Select the location of the frugal install, on the internal drive.
Select the 1st small 300MB partition on the drive, as location to install the boot loader. (may need to scroll the selection window)
Select the boot loader type.
UEFI

The UEFI will also install the needed files, to support secure boot enabled in UEFI.

When you first boot the internal drive, on a UEFI computer, with secure boot enabled.
A process will start, to allow you to install the Puppy security key, to the computer.
It will add this Puppy key, to the other ones, loaded on the computer.

[Clarity]

@bigpup provides some excellent guidance for use of a NEW PC. I would encourage use of it as you start to get comfortable with PUPPY Linux on your new PC.

I feel his 1st sentence-paragraph in the prior post is an ESPECIALLY important 1st consideration for ANY new 64bit PC. Taking that advice, I would proceed with his machine-level guidance info.

Hope this provides a level of comfort to your progress.

[Jafadmin]

@bigpup provides some excellent guidance for use of a NEW PC. I would encourage use of it as you start to get comfortable with PUPPY Linux on your new PC.

I feel his 1st sentence-paragraph in the prior post is an ESPECIALLY important 1st consideration for ANY new 64bit PC. Taking that advice, I would proceed with his machine-level guidance info.

Hope this provides a level of comfort to your progress.

Fossapup is ok to play with, but I don't use "systemd" OS's for serious work.

[mikeslr]

Your choice of Bionicpup was a good one. But when posting always be specific. Bionicpup64 is not the same as Bionicpup32.
Puppys are 'binary compatible' to some operating system published by some major distro, most often one by Ubuntu, debian, or slackware. Binary compatible does not mean identical. It only means that significant, foundation binaries of a particular operating system were employed and that via Puppy Package Manager access is provided to the repositories of that operating system. Between the foundation binaries and applications a user might run --e.g. firefox, abiword, gimp-- are infrastructure applications: libraries/dependencies. Puppys' infrastructure is often unique to Puppys. And the infrastructure used by the operating system whose binaries Puppys have employed may be absent.
As a result, although Puppy Package Manager provides access to the repo of its binary-compatible distros repositories, applications installed from those repositories may not run OOTB. [Puppy Package Manager is good, but not perfect. And pkg-cli, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 649#985531 is even better once you've mastered it].
To get an application to be functional or fully functional may take both effort and knowledge. It may take some time before the Dev who published the Puppy or a User to compile or build a fully functional application and make it available.
Fossapup is developing into a very capable operating system. It is already fine for most common daily tasks and has some advantages over older Puppys in that it can run the most recent applications such as Ungoogled-Chromium, viewtopic.php?p=11080#p11080. But Fossapup still has some rough-edges. For day-to-day operations I prefer Bionicpup64 which, by now, is very polished.
One of Puppys' great advantages over other operating systems is that Puppys run as Frugal install: they only need their own folders, not an entire partition. Each Puppy, even when fully fleshed-out, rarely requires more than 4 Gbs of 'Storage Space'. And frugal Puppies can make use not only of AppImages but of SFSes; many of which can be shared by two or more Puppies.
You don't have to choose between Fossapup and Bionicpup. You can run both.

[MrAccident]

Thanks Mike. I'll try FossaPup. I don't need many external programs; and the ones I do - are mostly well known. If everything will work - I'll stay with it.

[MrAccident]

Can't boot. I went through the installation process, and there didn't seem to be a problem or uncertainty.
I created the 300MB fat32 partition (name - nvme0n1p1), and another ext4 (name - nvme0n1p2). The folder with FossaPup was created on nvme0n1p2 and it's 398MB.
In FrugalPup, after clicking Boot button ― it says

Select the partition containing Puppy frugal install(s):

I choose the folder. Then it asks to select the fat32 partition, and I select it.

After rebooting ― I get to the screen where I need to select the Puppy to load; and when I click on it ― I get the message:

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file error '/grub/x86_64-eti/squashfs.mod not found
error file '/mnt/nvme0n1p2/vmlinuz not found
Loading initrd.gz
error: you need to load the kernel first.

I see the file "vmlinuz"; but '/grub/x86_64-eti/squashfs.mod - I don't see anywhere; even the folders.

[bigpup]

I have never seen that error message.

This computer is just messing with you!

In FrugalPup, after clicking Boot button ― it says

Select the partition containing Puppy frugal install(s):

I choose the folder.

Does that say you picked the partition the folder is on or the folder?
You need to select the partition the Fossapup folder is on.

What boot loader type did you select to use?
Should need to use the UEFI one.

Did you completely delete everything on the drive and start fresh making all new partitions?
Nothing is on the drive from other operating systems.
I am wondering if some old boot files are on it?

[MrAccident]

bigpup -

Does that say you picked the partition the folder is on or the folder?

First I needed to choose the partition, then the FossaPup folder in it.

What boot loader type... use the UEFI.

Yes UEFI; I think it was the only one available; it was written in small letters - "uefi".

Did you completely delete everything on the drive and start fresh making all new partitions?

Yes, I used Device -> Create partition table -> gpt.

I am wondering if some old boot files are on it?

In GParted - I've also put "boot" flag on the fat32 partition.

I used the native FrugalPup program in FossaPup.
I booted into USB - and looked at the partitions and folders ― and what the error-message says is missing (folder x86_64-eti, and in it the file squashfs.mod) - seems to be missing.

[MrAccident]

In the beginning of the installation process ― it says "select the source type", and the options are something like: ISO, Zip, Folder, This. I chose "This".

[mikewalsh]

@MrAccident :-

Jeez; this is getting kinda silly. This thread is wandering around in circles, and not getting anywhere. I'm sorry to say it, but your tendency to "waffle" is not helping, either..!

Time to get things back on track, I think.

I, too, am using my first ever UEFI machine. It took me all of about 2 hours to figure out what needed changing, and to wipe Windoze out of the way, and get my first of many Puppies running on it.

Bigpup is right about one thing; the need for that small FAT32 partition.

--------------------------------------
MrAccident:-

Two questions, if I may?

1. Why are you insisting on ext4? Ext4 is a staple requirement for mainstream Linux distros, because GRUB2 demands it. This is Puppy; we don't use GRUB2, and 64-bit Puppies have a known problem with ext4. Ext3 will work fine for your requirements.

2. What's all this about "my files are on sda5, and I want the same..." ? The same WHAT? Sda5 is going to be a logical partition, doing things the traditional way....and no, I can't for the life of me see the need for GPT, either. Why can't you use sda2, 3 or 4? If you need to edit stuff to re-point in a different direction, so be it; it's one of those things that sometimes need doing, unfortunately.

IF you were wanting to run Puppy alongside a mainstream Linux distro or Windoze, I could understand it; that's what Windoze or mainstream distro bootloaders seem to expect; GPT, UEFI "shims", and all the rest of it.

Myself, I run Puppies on this new HP tower using the UEFI BIOS 'Legacy' option, MBR partitioning, and Grub4DOS. The only concessions are that wee FAT32 partition right at the beginning.....and modified Grub4DOS menu.lst entries, courtesy of what @rcrsn51 published on the old Murga forum as part of his 'Debian-Stretch-Live' starter-kit. These use UUID partition identification, and the pdrv= parameter.

Okay, I guess this IS something of a 'hybrid' solution.......but it WORKS. And running ONLY Puppies makes it a lot simpler, of course.

If you would like, I can post an example of my 'modified' menu.lst entries. And this is installed by the conventional 'Grub4DOS Bootloader Config' tool.

Entirely up to you, of course.

(*shrug*)

Mike.

[rcrsn51]

Ext4 is a staple requirement for mainstream Linux distros, because GRUB2 demands it.

Not true.

[bigpup]

Have you changed any settings in the UEFI setup?
Like secure boot disable.
Enable legacy boot or enable CSM.

In the beginning of the installation process ― it says "select the source type", and the options are something like: ISO, Zip, Folder, This. I chose "This".

Try selecting iso for source type.

Have the Puppy version iso you want to install located where you can find it.

Select this iso for the source type.

It will have a way to tell Frugalpup Installer, this is the iso, and where the iso is located.

The iso of the Puppy version will have everything needed in it.

Also try to reinstall the uefi boot loader, on the first small partition, formatted fat32, and flagged boot.

[MrAccident]

mikewalsh:

Why are you insisting on ext4?

I read some article ― and it said it's better. :-J

Ext3 will work fine

No problem; but just one question ― will it work better for Puppy \ the system, AND for the regular files I use; or only for Puppy?

What's all this about...sda5...

I simply meant ― to have 2 partitions: for Puppy AND other files. But then I decided - it'll be better to use 1 partition for both; so never mind that.

bigpup - OK, I'll reinstall from ISO. I just want to get the answer about - ext4 OR ext3; and one partition for Puppy & other files or 2 with the different file-systems?

[bigpup]

Partitioning is up to you.

The only thing for sure.
1st partition small 300MB, formatted fat32, flagged boot.
Put boot loader on this small partition.
This is a UEFI standards partition setup, for what the UEFI wants to see, for where the boot loader is located.

A ext 3 or 4 formatted partition is best for Puppy frugal installs.
That gives ability to make the Puppy save a folder.

Some older Puppy versions had issues with ext 4 formats, because some of their older programs, where missing code to fully support ext 4.
That should be fixed, on any Puppy series 6 or newer versions.
Using ext 3 format, just makes sure there is no chance of a problem, with any Puppy or older programs, you may try to install and use.

I am wondering if your boot problem, could be the problem with some computers, with internal SSD, emmc, and SD card drives.
Some computers, no problems.
But others, give Puppies boot process problems, with drives not being identified and mounted, before the boot process tries to look for needed boot files, on them.
This is being worked on to fix, but the fix has to be added to a Puppy version, that does not have it.
It is some code changes to the init file.
So far, no new Puppy version is released with fix, already in it.
This is where the problem is being worked on:
viewtopic.php?p=7862#p7862

[MrAccident]

Problem solved. From my experience with this type of things ― I thought that the problem may lie in the name of the folder ― "FossaPup-64 9.5". I already noticed there are sometimes problems renaming files with dots in the name, in Puppy. So I just named it FossaPup ― and it worked. There should be a warning somewhere; especially that you told me that a good idea is to name the folder by the version name.
So it's installed now.
Thank you all.

[mikewalsh]

Problem solved. From my experience with this type of things ― I thought that the problem may lie in the name of the folder ― "FossaPup-64 9.5". I already noticed there are sometimes problems renaming files with dots in the name, in Puppy. So I just named it FossaPup ― and it worked. There should be a warning somewhere; especially that you told me that a good idea is to name the folder by the version name.
So it's installed now.
Thank you all.

Heh. Y'know, I was wondering about this myself last night, but got sidetracked & never asked about it.

We always say, when naming sub-directories, etc, that it needs to have a "unique name". So it does. But the abiding principle of K.I.S.S remains; the simpler you can make it, the better not only for you, but for the hardware.....there's less chance of either of you making mistakes!

So:- There's no real need for ".", "-", "_", "#", "~".......or even extraneous spaces, come to that. You can give each Pup a detailed, descriptive name in the Boot Menu - you can go MAD here if you want! - but the actual sub-directory name of Puppy's "home", in the file system........you want to keep THAT as simple as possible.

Just goes to prove - as so often with 'puters, regardless of OS - that it only takes one wrong item of punctuation, one additional space, extra period, comma or semi-colon (or lack of such), for everything to come grinding to an abrupt halt. And until you've found it, and corrected it, there isn't a snowflake's chance in hell it's going to work.....

Mike.

[MrAccident]

mikewalsh:

So:- There's no real need for ".", "-", "_", "#", "~".......or even extraneous spaces

Oh really? Too bad.. I wanted to name it "•*´¨`*•.¸¸.•*´¨`*•.¸*•.¸♥¸.•*• ₊°✧︡ ˗ ˏ ˋ ❤ˎˊ ˗ Puppy ˏˋ ❤ˎˊ ˗ ✧︡ °₊•¸.•*´*•.¸¸.•*´¨`*•.¸¸.•*´¨`*•".

Yeah, I also had this intuition earlier, but... ignored it. :-\

[MrAccident]

Is there CherryTree available for FossaPup? If no ― a good alternative, that is normally in Puppy's repositories (although - I already spent alot of time - working on main titles with links to other titles :-/).

[rcrsn51]

I thought that the problem may lie in the name of the folder ― "FossaPup-64 9.5".

The problem was with the space in the middle.