How to install FossaPup64 and have my Save file on the same usb stick? (SOLVED)

[jaylcee]

SOLVED: see post #2 (Thank you Bigpup)

Hello,

I came back to Puppy after a few years break and wanted to make good old a self-contained installation but can't find a way to do it. Back in the days, I would install the iso file on a USB stick on Windows 7 through Rufus or Unetbootin, boot with Puppy Tahr and just create a Save file on the same USB stick before the first shutdown, all that without even thinking about it.

But now, I tried to install FossaPup64 under Ubuntu 20.04 on my new computer through Startup Disk Creator/DD/MKUSB. The installation formats my USB stick to ISO 9660 and I can't save the Save file on it after my first boot. I am not a Linux specialist and tried all I could do with my limited means, like trying to install from inside FossaPup64 to another fat32 USB stick but nothing will work out and it seems to complicated to be the right thing anyway.

What can I do to have my installation AND my Save file on the same stick?

Thank you.

[bigpup]

formats my USB stick to ISO 9660

That is the problem.
Do not use that program to do the install.
The USB needs to be formatted fat32 so it has a file system on it that is writable.

Use one of these installer programs:
viewtopic.php?f=156&t=157

Also look at the info about the pmedia= entry in the boot loader menu config file.

If the USB of Fossapup boots to working desktop.
You have another USB stick you can use.
Use the program Frugalpup Installer that is in Fossapup to do an install on the other USB.

This is what I do.

Use Gparted program.
Setup the USB stick with 2 partitions.
First one, small 300MB, fat32 format, flagged boot. (location for boot loader files, boot partition)
Rest of drive, whatever other partition(s), but one ext3 or 4 format. (location to put frugal installs)
(this is UEFI standard requirement, and some computers, look for a fat32 partition, for boot loader files)

Run Frugalpup Installer main program.
On the main window are selection buttons.
Select the Puppy button, to do the install.
Go through install process, selecting to install to the ext formatted partition.
Note:
When selecting the partition to install to.
A window pops up, giving option to make a directory, to put the frugal install in.
I make this directory and usually name it, the name of the Puppy version.
Carefully read that windows info.
Press enter, makes the directory, not the OK button.
complete the install.

When it gets back to the main Frugalpup window.
Select the boot button.
Select the location of the frugal install, on the USB stick.
Select the small 300MB partition on the USB stick, as location to install the boot loader. (may need to scroll the selection window)
Select the boot loader type.
UEFI
mbr ->legacy bios boot
both

You can install the UEFI for UEFI computers, mbr for legacy bios computers, or both, to boot anything.

The UEFI will also install the needed files, to support secure boot enabled in UEFI.

When you first boot the USB stick, on a UEFI computer, with secure boot enabled.
A process will start, to allow you to install the Puppy security key, to the computer.
It will add this Puppy key, to the other ones, loaded on the computer.

Note:
Not all UEFI computers are the same, for booting from a USB stick.
Some may require secure boot disabled, CSM enabled, or legacy boot enabled, to be able to boot from a USB stick.
So, for those computers.
The mbr boot loader will work, because the UEFI bios, is basically in, legacy bios operation.

To put more frugal installs on the same USB stick.
Do the complete Frugalpup Installer process again, for the new Puppy version.
When you run the boot loader install.
It will make entries, for all installs it finds, on the USB drive.

[jaylcee]

Thank you very much for your detailed reply Bigpup.

I try all the installers except Rufus and it seems that the boot menu of my ACER Timeline P2410 will not detect a usb stick formatted in FAT32, only ISO9660 The "secure boot" is already disabled and I don't have a Legacy option.

The problem seems to happen a lot with Acer users willing to boot from usb and there is never a right answer to that. Some even say it is made on purpose by ACER.

Any further thoughts on the problem please?

[bigpup]

How exactly are you booting to try and get it to select the USB to boot from?
You do what?
You see what?

If you have a manual for the computer the info on how to do it should be in it.

I tried a search for how to boot USB from a ACER Timeline P2410.
That does not seem to be a model name that comes up.
Are you sure it is not some other model?
Acer Travelmate p2410 maybe???

This may be a computer that does not have full support for USB booting, or USB booting at all.
If it has a CD/DVD drive.
Burn the Fossapup iso image on the CD.
Boot with that.
You can save to the internal hard drive.
When you boot the CD. It will find the save on the hard drive and use it.

[mikewalsh]

@jaylcee :-

Umm; getting a wee bit confused here, unfortunately....

The "Timeline" is in fact an Aspire 'special edition', and dates back to 2008:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_Aspire_Timeline

The P2410, on the other hand, is actually from the 'Travelmate' series.....but this series spans from right back in 1997, all the way up as far as 2012!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_TravelMate

So; which one IS it? Have you got a more detailed model number for it.....because although we can track down all sorts of things, without that as a starting-point we're kinda stuffed, y'know?

It appears there's at least a dozen or more "P2410"s, built with quite a varied range of hardware.....and a number of different BIOS implementations. This is part of why we DO need an exact model number; it's the only way to try & navigate the maze..! Acer/ASUS, in particular amongst Taiwanese firms, churn these things out by the bucketload, and are constantly modifying/changing/altering designs and specifications whenever they feel like it; it's not unusual to have 3 or 4 variations of the same item 'in-market' at the same time! Which just confuses everybody.....

Linux is a bit more 'picky' than Windows, too; you don't really install drivers.....the kernel takes care of all that for you, but you do have to have the right kernel that supports your hardware. As time passes, newer kernel releases will support more & more new hardware, but they also begin to drop support for older items, too....

Mike.

[jaylcee]

Hello Guys,

thank you very much for your replies and sorry for providing you with the wrong piece of information. The Laptop is indeed an ACER Travelmate P2410-G2-M-5260.

[mikeslr]

Just thinking out-load. Have no way to explore this.

After a USB-drive is 'entirely' formatted as ISO 9660, can that drive be resized? Recipe: create two USB-Fossapup64's, boot into one, plug in the other and resize (shrink) its drive creating unallocated >then Linux Ext3 partition which you can later select for your SaveFile/Folder.

Other thought, since I was just looking at that thread: Have you tried SuperGRUB2? viewtopic.php?f=156&t=387.

[jaylcee]

Thanks Mikeslr, I am having a look at it.

How exactly are you booting to try and get it to select the USB to boot from?
You do what?
You see what?

if my usb stick installation of Puppy is in fat32, I don't see the usb stick in the boot menu and can't boot from it but when the very same usb stick is in ISO9660, I can see it and boot from it.

[mikewalsh]

Y'know, it sounds like the exact same issue I had with the old Compaq tower.

Prior to the Athlon X2 dual-core 'upgrade' - when I HAD to update the BIOS to handle the dual-cores - the original BIOS had no problems seeing, and booting from FAT32. After the BIOS update - the recommended one for that mobo - never again would that machine see FAT32 as a bootable medium.

Definitely sounds like a BIOS issue to me. Question: does the TravelMate have an old-style BIOS.....or is it cursed with UEFI? AFAIK, this business of needing to boot from FAT32 is a UEFI requirement.....the older BIOS wouldn't need to do this. You could set Pup up in an ext3 partition, and the bootloader would live there, too...

Mike.

[bigpup]

if my usb stick installation of Puppy is in fat32, I don't see the usb stick in the boot menu and can't boot from it but when the very same usb stick is in ISO9660, I can see it and boot from it.

I think you have computer that only boots from a CD or internal hard drive.
usb stick is in ISO9660
That is the format a CD uses.
So the computer sees it because it thinks it is an external CD.

If you boot with this USB and try to save.
Will it offer to save to the internal hard drive?
If yes.
That may be what you will have to do.

[mikeslr]

I previously raised the question of whether ISO9660 drives/partitions can be resized (shrunk). The answer is "Yes. But", https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... -usb-stick, the but being "Not with gparted or parted..." You'd have to "use modern versions of fdisk and lsblk." The above post goes into details, even provides a recipe which doesn't look particularly 'newbie friendly'.
Frankly, bigpup's last suggestion makes the most sense. Puppies still support SaveFiles on Fat32 and ntfs partitions. Reasons for needing a SaveFile as large as 2 Gbs are few and far between; over 4 Gbs extremely rare. See my post here about keeping stuff out of your SaveFile, viewtopic.php?f=151&t=444. And once you have a SaveFile*, you can use the Save2SFS component of the nicOS-suite, viewtopic.php?p=12983#p12983 to convert it to an 'y' drive --Fossapup64 already employs an 'adrv'-- then move the 'ydrv' adjacent to your puppy_fossaPup64_9.5.sfs on your USB-Stick and operate either without a SaveFile, or start fleshing out a new one.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
* Correction: You don't even need to first create a SaveFile. See this post: viewtopic.php?p=16630#p16630

[puddlemoon]

So here is a script from fatdog originally, I got it from DDog.
I knew I had seen it somewhere when I saw this post then I had a need myself....

This will make available the unused space of the ISO9660 formatted usb.

Download the script, remove fake .gz and make sure it is executable.
Open a terminal from the directory you put the script, and being certain of your drive and that it is unmounted, run the script with:

e.g. " ./fix-usb.sh /dev/sdb "

It will ask which fs type you want to use and after prompt you to issue another command, from a list, to create the fs in the space made. (I ignore the message that iso signature may remain)

e.g. " mkfs -t ext4 /dev/sdb3

I tested it on a couple just now as it had been a while, both made a 3rd partition on a hybrid iso
so ended up with Vfat for boot, ISO9660 for system an ext4 for data while gparted still shows one ISO9660

very handy indeed

[bigpup]

That is a very good script for what it does.
Thanks for info about it.

However, jaylcee says his computer will not see a fat32 format.
So a Vfat partition for boot is not going to work.

mikesir, that is some very good info on making a save into a ydrv sfs.
If I understand correctly all the Puppy SFS files are on a partition formatted iso9660.
You can not add anything to it.
It is read only format.

this computer is old pre-USB drive booting, made before booting from USB was an option.
If the USB is formatted in the iso9660 format.
It sees the USB, because that format makes it appear to the computer as a CD.
The computer does have option to boot from a CD.

[mikeslr]

...
mikesir, that is some very good info on making a save into a ydrv sfs.
If I understand correctly all the Puppy SFS files are on a partition formatted iso9660.
You can not add anything to it.
It is read only format...

Thanks, bigpup. The information is even better now that amethyst has clarified that it is NOT even necessary to first create a SaveFile. [I've edited the post to point to amethyst's instructions]. The limitations of jaylcee's computer add complications, but it may still be possible to end up with everything on the USB-Stick, unless an optional SaveFile is desired.

To accomplish that you'd have to first build a new ISO which --along with the files of the original ISO-- contains the ydrv.sfs created using the Save2SFS tool. From a running Puppy Left-Click (mount) the original ISO. Copy its contents AND the newly created ydrv.sfs into an appropriately named folder --maybe my_fossapup64-9.5. [To create a folder, Right-Click an empty space and select New>Directory, give it a name]. Fossapup may already have the dir2iso tool available in it's Right-Click menu. If so, just Right-Clicking the folder should display it. If not, Fossapup may have ISOMaster or something similar available on its Multimedia SubMenu. [Sorry, not currently running Fossapup and don't remember]. And if neither of those are available, shinobar's no-arch dir2iso pet, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 748#638748, can be installed and used.

Once there's a new ISO it can be used the same way the original was to 'burn' it to a USB-Key.

[puddlemoon]

Just for clarity... the fix-usb script still shows the drive as ISO9660, as it did before the operation, but with one extra partition.

Screenshot(6).png (41.2 KiB) Viewed 1189 times

[jaylcee]

if my usb stick installation of Puppy is in fat32, I don't see the usb stick in the boot menu and can't boot from it but when the very same usb stick is in ISO9660, I can see it and boot from it.

I think you have computer that only boots from a CD or internal hard drive.
usb stick is in ISO9660
That is the format a CD uses.
So the computer sees it because it thinks it is an external CD.

Hello there and thank you very much for helping.

this is the very first thing I thought when I noticed that my computer would boot from a usb stick in ISO9660 while not even detecting the same usb stick in FAT32 but I just could not believe it. Why in the world would a computer not offer the option to boot from USB? (It is no old computer, I bought it new in 2019 and my previous laptop I bought in 2009 would boot from usb it for instance)

And yes, Puppy detects my HDD and propose me to save my SAVE file there but that is no self-contained portable install anymore, which is for me the whole point of having Puppy.

I'll try the others options evoked in this thread, even though it seems a bit beyond my capacities. Thank you and have a nice day guys.

[rcrsn51]

Why in the world would a computer not offer the option to boot from USB? (It is no old computer, I bought it new in 2019 and my previous laptop I bought in 2009 would boot from usb it for instance)

Your 2019 computer has UEFI firmware, so it expects that any boot device will have the matching UEFI structure. Your fossapup ISO has this structure, but an old BIOS-structured flash drive (possibly using the Grub4Dos bootloader) will not.

There are two ways to deal with this situation:
1. If possible, put the UEFI firmware in Legacy Mode. But that is not a guaranteed solution.
2. Make a UEFI-compatible flash drive. This procedure is well-documented around the forum.

[bigpup]

The clue they do not tell you until pages into the topic
If this is a 2019 UEFI computer.
Go into the UEFI setup.
Look for anything about enabling USB booting.
My UEFI needs that enabled.

[mikeslr]

Just a follow-up to bigpup's and rcrsn51's posts. I think what they have in mind is the employment of the frugalpup-installer. See my post here, viewtopic.php?p=1588#p1588 which links to bigpup's detailed instructions, and other documentation.

Unfortunately, the frugalpup-installer is only available under Puppies. Unless I'm mistaken --always a possibility I've had to learn to live with-- what you'd have to do is use FossaPup64 -- which may have Frugalpup-installer builtin (not sure, I'm not currently running FossaPup64) or SFS loaded-- running from one USB-port to build a 2nd FossaPup64 on a 2nd USB-Key.

[jaylcee]

Hello there,

after days and weeks of trying to understand why the heck my Bios/Uefi would refuse to boot from FAT32, I just accepted it and used a frugal install on a second USB stick, following Bigpup's method. It worked perfectly. The only thing I noticed was that Puppy Frugal Install did not leave me the choice about the Boot loader type and choose UEFI for me.

Do you know how to get "both" (UEFI+mbr ->legacy bios boot)?

Thank you so much anyway for your help everybody, it feels good to be back to Puppy.

[bigpup]

Do you know how to get "both" (UEFI+mbr ->legacy bios boot)?

I assume you are asking about using Frugalpup Installer and installing the boot loader.

What partition table is on the USB drive?
Use the Gparted program to look at the drive.
In view select device information.
Is it GPT or msdos partition table?

You are saying you never see the window that lists boot loader options to install?

[jaylcee]

What partition table is on the USB drive?
Use the Gparted program to look at the drive.
In view select device information.
Is it GPT or msdos partition table?

You are saying you never see the window that lists boot loader options to install?

Gparted says GPT. Shall I change something?

And no, the Puppy Install v20 doesn't ask me what kind of boot mode I want.

Thanks for all.

[bigpup]

GPT partition table is why it only offers UEFI boot loader.
The mbr legacy bios boot loader used is Grub4dos, and it can not be installed on a GPT setup drive.
There is no place to put the mbr part of Grub4dos boot loader.

If you redo the drives partition table choosing to make it msdos.
Frugalpup Installer, boot installer, should give you option to install UEFI, mbr (legacy bios), or both.

Understand changing the partition table deletes everything on the drive.
Will have to remake partitions and format.
Start over completely fresh.

Just to make sure you understand doing this with Gparted program.
Drive has to be unmounted.
Gparted->Device->Create partition table
Make partition table msdos.
Make partitions and format them.