Frugal install of Fossadog64 on fat32 flash drive slowww when using savefile

[Makarovnik]

I did a frugal install of fossadog64 on fat32 flash drive. It works fine until i use my savefile. Now it runs really really slowww. Menus are extremely slow and browser pretty slow and useless. Dont load the savefile and everything is fast again.

You might ask why fat32? Becuase i can boot uefi that way. Ext filesystem i must boot legacy which confuses my wife.

When i frugal install on ext and boot legacy with savefile on same drive it works great? Everything fast.

I'm wondering if i could boot uefi with fossadog main files: vmllinuz, initrd1.xz, 01-filesystem.squashfs and k-5.4.0-53-generic.squashfs and my EFI/boot on the first (fat32) partition and run my working directory and savefolder rather than savefile on a second (ext) partition?

I know I'm making it complicated. Thats what i do.

[puddlemoon]

hey there.
You can boot with fat32 and save on ext4. I use the label option.. so label the ext partition using gparted then add,
changes=LABEL:label/path/to-save
recently discovered this reading the porteus cheatcodes.

Could also add, "changes=EXIT:/path/to-changes.dat" to the fat32 install to make your changes only written once at exit..
That should speed things up as well.

[foxpup]

I'm wondering if i could boot uefi with fossadog main files: vmllinuz, initrd1.xz, 01-filesystem.squashfs and k-5.4.0-53-generic.squashfs and my EFI/boot on the first (fat32) partition and run my working directory and savefolder rather than savefile on a second (ext) partition?

Yes you can.
In fact, you only need a small fat32 boot/esp partition (100-500M) for the boot stuff (/EFI/boot and probably /BOOT/grub and a grub.cfg somewhere).
All the rest can be on ext3/ext4 partitions.

[Clarity]

If you feel a need to maintain a Frugal install the guidance is fine.

BUT, there is NO NEED to do a Frugal. FossaDog was updated last year to boot directly from its ISO and save-session whereever you want in a format of your choice (i.e. folder/file).

The simple instructions I used is here for all the modern PUPs/DOGs on either BIOS of UEFI PCs.

This post intents to merely be a little helpful and eliminate some of the inherent problems of Frugal storage management that can occur.

[Makarovnik]

You cannot boot from an iso and create a savefile because iso is always mounted read only. You can not create a savefolder because the partition must be ext and the iso is of course iso9660.

[Makarovnik]

So what I did this time was format USB with two partitions. First fat32, second ext2. I extracted the fossadog64 and copied folders: EFI, boot, casper and grub.cfg to the fat32 partition.

I booted the USB drive uefi and again, everything was good and fast. I made some small changes and shut down. This time I chose to use a savefolder on the second (ext2) partition.

I restarted and chose to load my savefolder. Just like previous test the system was sluggish, really bad.

This is my conclusion: if you use either a savefile or a savefolder you will have very poor performance if you are running on fat32. Even if the savefolder or savefile is on ext filesytem. Everything must be on ext filesytem. I did not try the test running from ram. I can say that if I run everything in ext, the system is fast even if I don't copy to ram.

Ultimately I must run only ext and boot legacy until I find a way to modify bootx64.efi to boot an ext filesytem.

Thanks everyone for the input. I was asking for something that cannot be done with the system as is. My fault.

[foxpup]

I am not used to the dogs, but it should be similar as for Puppys:

First suggestion:
Have you put the system files initrd.gz, vmlinuz and all the .sfs files on the ext2 partition? Usually I put them together in 1 directory.
You can leave EFI, boot (casper ?) and grub.cfg on the fat32 partition?
It is possible you have to make some changes in the grub.cfg.

Once you are booted, whether from mbr/ext or from fat32 (EFI), I do not expect that the way you have booted makes any difference.
So it looks that the combination of system files on fat32 and pupsave on ext (different filesystems) causes the sluggishness.
I do not know that should be an issue, but it could be.
Or maybe something else is going on with te pupsave.
So can you try what happens if you put pupsave and systemfiles together on ext?
That is my first suggestion.

Also, can you try if you have the same with an install of a Puppy or another Dog?
You can use fossapup and for the install on the flash you can use frugalpup.
Is there any Puppy/Dog configuration with pupsave that does run smoothly on your machine?
That's a second suggestion.

Third is some questions.
What machine do you have? CPU? graphic card? maybe harddisk type?
It could be something with the kernel or drivers.

[Makarovnik]

My experience with puppy is it runs fine with savefile even on fat32. It will freak out and start hanging if the savefile is not on the same partition as your home folder (initrd).

[Clarity]

You cannot boot from an iso and create a savefile because iso is always mounted read only. You can not create a savefolder because the partition must be ext and the iso is of course iso9660.

I am not sure I follow this comment.

From ALL of my 2020-2021 use of SG2D to boot any of those PUPs/DOGs while sessions are saved as per the case known to Puppy users, I boot, run as expected, and save-session as expected to local media. There has never been an option from a booted PUP/DOG to attempt to save-session to an ISO9660 unit or media. Puppy technology is NOT designed that way.

Can you explain "how" you did that from your PC, please? I am merely curious how you arrived at that observation.

Thanks.

[Makarovnik]

Sure. I'm in Linux mint. I download fossadog64.iso. I used mkusb to burn iso to USB flash drive. I boot the flash drive. When I logout>shut down I'm asked if I want to create a savefile. I choose yes. So far this is EXACTLY the way puppy works.

Now here is the difference between puppy and dog.

When I choose yes to create savefile on puppy it actually creates a savefile.2fs inside the iso9660 on the flash drive. On dog it does not. But it does try because the flash drive lights up briefly and dog reports the savefile was created. But when I look for it, it's not there. If you look at my post under ubuntudogs>bionicdog64 not creating savefile you can see more. You will also see a response telling me it might be because isos are mounted read only. Which makes sense.

However something about the way puppy works with it's savefile it allows it to write to a read only iso9660.

I also thought it was common knowledge that you cannot use a savefolder on non ext (ie fat32) filesystem. Only a savefile will work with non ext (ie fat32). Maybe I'm wrong about that.

[Makarovnik]

You can DEFINITELY burn a puppy iso to USB flash (iso9660) and and save changes to it. When I look at the drive in gparted it shows it as format iso9660. When I look at it after creating a savefile I can see the pupsave.2fs in there. Somehow​ puppy is able to create this mini filesystem inside the iso9660. Now maybe it's not really a iso9660 but that's how it shows up gparted.

Just try this: burn a fossupup64 to flash drive. Then look at the flash drive in gparted. Notice the format is iso9660.

Boot it up and make changes. Shut down. You will be asked to create pupsave file. Do it. Then shutdown. Reboot it. Your changes will be loaded as overlay filesystem. Save a test doc on mnt/something. Shut down puppy. Start up another os and stick the drive in. You will see your test doc. Look at the drive in gparted. It will show as iso 9660. How does it do that?

[rcrsn51]

You will be asked to create pupsave file.

Where?

[TerryH]

You can DEFINITELY burn a puppy iso to USB flash (iso9660) and and save changes to it. When I look at the drive in gparted it shows it as format iso9660. When I look at it after creating a savefile I can see the pupsave.2fs in there. Somehow​ puppy is able to create this mini filesystem inside the iso9660. Now maybe it's not really a iso9660 but that's how it shows up gparted.

Just try this: burn a fossupup64 to flash drive. Then look at the flash drive in gparted. Notice the format is iso9660.

Boot it up and make changes. Shut down. You will be asked to create pupsave file. Do it. Then shutdown. Reboot it. Your changes will be loaded as overlay filesystem. Save a test doc on mnt/something. Shut down puppy. Start up another os and stick the drive in. You will see your test doc. Look at the drive in gparted. It will show as iso 9660. How does it do that?

So I tried it. I used DD to write fossapup64 to a 2GB USB drive. When I view with gparted I see the whole dive showing as ISO9660, no separate partitions show. After booting it, did first run setup then shutdown. Apart from the internal partitions, it showed sdb2 9MB with 1MB free. I selected sdb2 and then clicked through to complete shutdown. It appeared to complete. I then booted and the first run setup was run again. I couldn't see anything to show where a savefile had actually been created.

I gave up at this point, as I have very little experience other than doing manual frugal installs, as in the 12 years I've been doing installs with puppy I've done installs a couple of times using dd and used frugalpup installer once.

[Makarovnik]

My mistake. As @TerryH has proved, puppy offers to create savefile on that iso9660 (puppy shows it as sdb2 vfat partition) and it says it is creating the savefile (0 bytes in size) but obviously nothing happens. I will talk to my wife about spanking me, hard.

There is still the problem of slow performance when doing frugal install on fat32 while using a savefile.

[rcrsn51]

The vfat partition you are seeing is the EFI System Partition that is part of all UEFI-compatible ISOs. It contains the bootloader code required by a UEFI system. It is NOT an appropriate place to put a save file/folder.

A better strategy is to make a general-purpose bootable flash drive and frugal-install the contents of the ISO onto it.