Wayland is becoming the 2021 replacement for XORG

Clarity · Post by **Clarity** » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:50 am

I am convinced, like any new change that occurs, people (users-devs alike) are going to object! This is normal as I have seen objections to new stuff ALL MY LIFE. Whether its cars (Tesla) or PCs (32b vs 64b) or ... ; objections are expected.

But, this has promise and will bring about improvements in application speeds as well as changing improvements to visual audio behaviors in our PCs for us.

This video will help YOU understand what and how Wayland will improve our lives as we march into our future. In fact in just a few years we wont be making decisions about whether we like this or not as the hardware manufacturers have already addressed it.

It appears that the earliest stable PUP which can/will take advantage of this improvement will be a stable Debian based PUP.

Enjoy

Edited: The thread's title only

Clarity · Post by **Clarity** » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:23 pm

Fedora 33 is a "Wayland" based distro. And it is STABLE and responsive.

This future is showing up in present day.

s243a · Post by **s243a** » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:27 pm

Clarity wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:23 pm
Fedora 33 is a "Wayland" based distro. And it is STABLE and responsive.

This future is showing up in present day.

So then if someone wants to experiment with wayland, then perhaps a fedora puppy might be an interesting project. That said, I like the philosophy of Xorg where only what needs to be changed is changed (Maximum stability). Also I've heard some reports where distros shifting to wayland hasn't worked out as well as hoped. I think puppy also has (or should have) a preference for stability, so I see no reason to rush injto the wayland way.

Clarity · Post by **Clarity** » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:33 pm

Clarity 3 days ago wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:50 am
...
This video will help YOU understand ...

The manufacturer's & open-source development are making these decisions.

Clarity · Post by **Clarity** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:44 am

Wayland is, now, about to become mainstream.

Ubuntu will move, by default, too. Many more Linux distros will follow as nVidia is now on-board the Wayland train of hardware vendors.

Wayland has seen tremendous development and support over the past 10 years.

Better viewing-audio experiences for our benefit.

Post by **wiak** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:23 am

Clarity wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:44 am
Wayland is, now, about to become mainstream.

Ubuntu will move, by default, too.

Yes, this will probably be a nightmare for a while. Bring it on - better get started on it sooner rather than later.

Bang goes Openbox... maybe use:

https://github.com/johanmalm/labwc

I don't like, however:

It is in early development, so expect bugs and missing features.

though for now at least it may be useful that it will:

Be light-weight, small and fast
Have the look and feel of openbox albeit with a smaller feature set
...
Optionally support xwayland
Parse openbox config files (rc.xml, autostart, environment)
...
Support root-menu and parse menu.xml
but not so good: (very simple implementation - no submenus, separators or titles)

and looks like doesn't support Pipe-menus or Multiple-desktops(!) but maybe I don't understand what "out of scope" means... well, I don't.

Maybe I'll stick with Xorg for this year at least - things always settle down, and sometimes it is better to wait till the dust settles. But certainly Wayland does seem to be the future, and like anything new (e.g. systemd) there is going to be a fair amount of resistance and particularly from those who are 'comfortable' with what has been used for decades... That resistance is always understandable (let's face it, change means a lot of work and so many new tricks for us poor old dogs to learn) but my philosophy is ultimately: go with the flow.

Aside from the window manager considerations I still have to ponder, in WeeDogLinux_Arch64 I guess I could experiment with non-Xwayland pure Wayland/Weston right now:

https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comm ... d_on_arch/

Wayland is just the protocol. Weston is a graphical environment that uses Wayland. By installing X and Gnome, you will also get the Wayland package, but you can use Weston completely without X.

Just pacman -S weston, exit X if it is running and run "weston".

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/wa ... quirements
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Weston

Post by **wiak** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:59 am

Considering the Puppy-type utility apps, a lot is going to change (but, thank goodness, WeeDogLinux uses a simple plugin build system):

I have grave doubts about gtkdialog, but what would I know...?... GTK3 can work, so maybe ok???... But if everything needs somewhat re-written, I question using gtkdialog for that anyway.

https://github.com/swaywm/sway/wiki/Run ... er-wayland

https://github.com/swaywm/sway/wiki/i3- ... ternatives

s243a · Post by **s243a** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:47 pm

wiak wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:59 am
Considering the Puppy-type utility apps, a lot is going to change (but, thank goodness, WeeDogLinux uses a simple plugin build system):

I have grave doubts about gtkdialog, but what would I know...?... GTK3 can work, so maybe ok???... But if everything needs somewhat re-written, I question using gtkdialog for that anyway.

https://github.com/swaywm/sway/wiki/Run ... er-wayland

https://github.com/swaywm/sway/wiki/i3- ... ternatives

That's a lot of changes!

Post by **rockedge** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:45 pm

@wiak
I just compiled gtkdialog for WeeDogXX-Void. Used the one from here -> https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/gtkdialog

I need it for mm_view and turns out it works great. Void no longer has it in their repos and it and it's dependencies as was, broke xbps updating. So it has to be uninstalled to restore the system to working 100%. Attempts to reinstall it after the system update by just copying a binary failed.

Compiling worked, MM_view works and now the xbps-install update functions also as expected.

Post by **wiak** » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:33 am

You are off-topic rockedge

Clarity · Post by **Clarity** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:27 pm

This post is NOT any attempt to change in PUPs.

YET, we SHOULD be aware of the benefits that are occurring in both video and audio that has become so prevalent in what we do today, than ever before.

Distrowatch has published this on what Fedora is now doing that is a game-changer for there community. Read a brief 1 paragraph, here.

This will become our future as the TV-monitor-homeuse increases. Other mainstreams are already pursuing.

Post by **wiak** » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:42 am

Will be easy to modify WeeDogLinux variants to use Wayland if the upstream repo supports that (which would mean upstream repo apps also supporting Wayland). Standard WDL_Void build, for example, starts from a simple core of busybox + upstream_package_manager (being xbps). Then it is built up to fulldesktop via a simple plugin script (such as rockedge makes for WDL_Void32). Debian-based standard WDL variants start from simple debootstrap - again it is built up to full desktop via simple plugin script that can be modified in geany... WDL_Arch builds are equally moldable.

6502coder · Post by **6502coder** » Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:53 am

For another point of view, there is this article by Dedoimedo:

https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/wayland-2021.html

To be clear: all this stuff is WAY over my head, so even if I had an opinion on Wayland it wouldn't be worth sharing. Where I do agree with Dedoimedo is that I care more about functionality than about maintainability. If "new" is functionally worse than "old," then I'm sticking with "old." If I enjoyed having "new" break what used to work in "old" without providing a substitute that was at least as usable, I'd be a Microsoft user.

mistfire · Post by **mistfire** » Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:14 am

However Wayland still doesn't support EGL unlike Xorg does. Also it was a nightmare change for Puppy Community. It may took a long time for transition especially the Puppy was designed for Xorg

Clarity · Post by **Clarity** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:57 pm

Wayland NEWS as Puppy (and the world) continues its march in improvements for both old & new PCs.

Clarity · Post by **Clarity** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:01 am

This is posted to assist member understanding of a central reason "Why..." WoofCE has been moving the needle in Puppy Linux.

Distrowatch is reporting this for Fedora. The message applies equally to Puppy Linux

"Recent updates in NVIDIA proprietary driver allow Xwayland to benefit from hardware acceleration and X11 applications can have their rendering hardware accelerated. That allowed to enable Wayland sessions even when the NVIDIA proprietary driver is used, but keeping Xorg the default in that case. This proposal is to make Wayland by default with newer versions of the NVIDIA proprietary driver to remain consistent with other drivers."

All 64bit PCs benefit from this video's step forward.

FYI

dimkr · Post by **dimkr** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:19 am

mistfire wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:14 am
However Wayland still doesn't support EGL unlike Xorg does. Also it was a nightmare change for Puppy Community. It may took a long time for transition especially the Puppy was designed for Xorg

It doesn't have to be a nightmare - in fact, X already works pretty well under Wayland - see https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... nd-Support. Vanilla Dpup has automatic fallback to X.Org, and it's transparent for the user (except, maybe, a small ~5 second delay in the first boot).

"Proper" Wayland support is work-in-progress but it's maturing quickly, and I think it won't take many months to publish a beta-quality Puppy with a pure Wayland desktop.

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