Bionicpup32: 2nd Nvidia s-video monitor Black & White (Solved)

[Jeff-X]

Hi everybody. Thanks for all the puppy's and helpful info!

I have run into an error that I cannot solve in Bionicpup32.
Here goes...

I am successfully using Bionicpup32-bit. It even loads my Nvidia Geforce FX
5500 in my old Dell Optiplex GX280 with 4 GB ram installed. This video card
has VGA and S-Video outs.

Here's the problem. The S-Video output + older TV.
The VGA works great but the S-video TV starts out in Color while in Bios and
any other OS, but when Bionicpup32 loads video drivers all of the colors go
black and white only.

I get color in Slackopup 533, Windows, etc...

Other than this BUG the Bionicpup32 is working great!
Once the desktop loads it stays in black and white. Tried a newer TV and
there is color but not older Tvs and VCRs to be clear what we're talking
about.

When I load the Gears to check 3D it works fine, just without color. Whole OS
works great.

It makes this old Dell very useful, but I need to second monitor.
I've tried the two Nvidia drivers. They completely fail.
I've tried the ones under petpackages on distro.ibliblio/puppy/bionic...
Complete failures. I also tried all of the Nouveau packages in package
manager. All of these send me back to black screen with choice of xorwizard,
set driver, reset driver to default etc..

Seems the Nouveau driver is doing the job!!! almost. So it must be some
simple setting somewhere.

I've messed around in xorg.conf to no avail as well...
Strange that this problem does not exist in old Slackopup 533. BOTH screens
work and in color!!!
Just can't use the rest of the Slackopup 533 OS as it is outdated.
Best I could figure, the Slackopup is using Vesa. So I tried switching to
Vesa in Bionicpup32.

I confirmed that It did in fact change to Vesa, but it was still ALSO using
Nouveau in the Open GL and still black and white second screen.
I hate to give up on a Puppy solution for this PC. Your OSes are the best. I

even tried some distros off dirstrowatch, that suck. LOL
I have to use a 32 bit puppy unless I buy a 64-bit processor. So Bionic32

seems like the way to go except for this bug.
Thanks for any help.

[bigpup]

Try getting the Nvidia driver and installing it.
It should work better than the nouveau driver.
How to do it:
viewtopic.php?f=97&t=123
Just carefully follow the steps and take your time to make sure you do it correctly.

Bionicpup32 does not keep stuff in the official main Puppy repository.
It's devx and kernel sources sfs's here:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... cpup32.htm

[Jeff-X]

Thank you so much, but unfortunately, though I did follow your

instructions and the instructions on the post you linked to,

to the letter, and though I had very high hopes! ...I winded

up at the black screen of the on-board graphics chip screen

with the choice of xorgwizard, set driver, resolution or set

xorg.conf to default. ...and nothing worked at all which I

guess means it killed my save file. Luckily I have a backup

and I saved all the needed files you told me to get.
So I turned the program on and it said to press it's restart

computer now button so it could unload nouveau and then start

the process but it failed.

Yes, I got the 2 sfs files from the link you gave me.
Yes, they were both placed into mnt/home.
Yes, I downloaded the correct Nvidia run file and placed it in

mnt/home as well.
I then installed the getnvidia program. It looked impressive.
So what went wrong?
It's the same thing I have been experiencing.
By the way, I downloaded the newest file from Nvidia for my

hardware that claims to have fixed all issues.
Do I now take them one at a time from newest to oldest until I

get lucky? ...maybe? ...and just keep deleting savefiles and

recopying the backup over each time it fails or is there a

better method?

Thanks so much! I feel like I'm getting warmer! LOL

[Jeff-X]

Hey I should also mention I DID load-on-the-fly the 2 SFS files as instructed.
I also did as instructed and attempt to unload Nouveau driver by going to command prompt. The only option I saw was to reset driver to Vesa. Then I attempted to confirm it changed it to Vesa and the report said Vesa was the running driver. However, it ALSO shows Nouveau GL acceleration, but then when I let the Getnvidia program run, it reboots the computer and it goes back to the black screen with choice of xorgwizard, set driver, resolution or set xorg.conf to default. ...and nothing worked at all.

So dead in the water again. Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks again!

[mikewalsh]

@Jeff-X :-

I'm going to take a stab in the dark here.

I don't think the issue is the Puppy in use, or NVidia drivers, or anything like that. I think your problem is down to that S-Video port....and kernel support (or lack of).

Although S-Video wasn't formally ratified as a 'standard' until 1987, in one form or another it had been around since the advent of the very early Atari games consoles, back in the late 1970s. This isn't just 'old' technology; by the standards of the tech world, this is 'dinosaur' technology.

While the Linux kernel has always attempted to provide driver support for as many old devices & standards as is feasible, there comes a point in time when they simply HAVE to start dropping support for some older tech, in order to make way for support for the floods of new tech constantly coming on to the market.

Over that same time-frame, my guess is that the in-kernel 'nouveau' driver has evolved, too.....like as not dropping support for the 'S-Video' standard. The same probably applies to the official NVidia driver.

My guess is that whatever kernel you were using in Slacko 533 - probably late 2-series, or perhaps very early 3-series - the in-kernel 'nouveau' driver would at that time have probably still been supporting S-Video. We're now up to the 5-series; well into it, in fact.....and the 6-series kernel is looming on the horizon.

Frankly, it's a miracle your card is still working at all, since there's rumours about VGA support being dropped before long.....The only solution, really, is to use an older kernel. Experimentation would be needed to show at what point during kernel development support was finally dropped for that standard.

Mike.

[Jeff-X]

Thanks for replying Mike & Bigpup. I feel like this is just a

driver conflict. I don't think the Nouveau driver is actually

being fully unloaded. Every Nvidia driver *.pet I've used and

gotten elsewhere has taken me to the black screen ON ONBOARD

VIDEO and leaving my Nvidia Tv's with a blank screen.
However, if I do nothing, Bionicpup32 loads up just fine with

Nouvea other than the weird fade to black and white bug.
It does not make since that Nvidia's own driver fails,

especially considering I just followed Bigpup's instructions

and even that driver failed. So it seems like just some dumb

thing. Some conflict somewhere or a simple seting.

To your point Mike and thank you for replying, my Nvidia

card's manufacture date, I will copy and paste "March 2004.

The GeForce FX 5500 was a graphics card by NVIDIA, launched in

March 2004. Built on the 150 nm process, and based on the NV34

B1 graphics processor, in its FX 5500 variant, the card

supports DirectX 9.0a."
So yes, pretty old, but not 1980s or 1970s tech by a long

shot. It was officially the 2000s when it first went into

production. You do make a logical point though! Considering I

just attempted to use Nvidia's own driver and the Bioinicpyp32

kernel what could the problem be? The Kernel perhaps?
I'd hate to think is the case. Puppy has always been all about

running older hardware and amazing us how well it runs with

LESS and on old left for dead hardware! ...and by the way,

this is still exactly what Bionicpup32 is doing. I can burn it

to disc and set my bios to boot from CD and POW! It starts,

runs my video and audio and everything else!!!
The ONLY dumb little problem is, the second screen is in black

and white. Even dumber, even my Dell bios gives a color screen

on it.
Trust me, Puppy CAN do this. It's not a dinosaur issue. It is

something simple like it always is.
Usually I can always figure out these bugs by myself. This is

the first time I've ever reached out on the forum since I

couldn't find anyone else asking the same question and a

resolution to this problem.
I did however see some other folks complaining about this

happening on the old archive but there was no answer to it.

Not even a reply. I forget what the URL was.
It's a silly bug. I can plug in a new TV to this port. The

cable is S-video on one end that plugs into the Nvidia card

and the other end is RCA. So I can plug this RCA end into a

newer TV if it has the RCA input of course, and it works like

a champ, BUT here's where the problem is, *when I plug it into

an older TV or VCR, yes dinosaur tech, it renders black and

white, ALTHOUGH BIOS GIVES COLOR! ...and ALTHOUGH Slackopup

533 renders color! ...and ALTHOUGH WinXP renders color!

etc...
So the problem is in Bionicpup32 somewhere. Isn't it?
Nevertheless I will try, try again using older and older

Nvidia drivers and if that fails too I'll try older and older

kernels as you suggest Mike.
Unless you all have a quicker, better idea.

Thank you sooo much for the help. Greatly appreciated

[mikewalsh]

@Jeff-X :-

Mm. You may be right, in fact. It may just be something in Bionicpup itself.

That's not to say that peebee and 666philb haven't done their usual amazing jobs on the 32-bit & 64-bit releases respectively, but even Canonical, the folks behind Bionic Beaver, admitted that they made some major "cock-ups" with that particular release. I was never able to run Bionicpup64 with any degree of reliability on this machine, due to every combination of the various Network wizards never being able to hold a connection for longer than the current session. Every time I went to re-boot, there it went....."dropped-out" again, entailing many frustrating minutes of messing about to re-establish a connection once more!

We tried pretty much everything, but nothing seemed to work. I prefer to run Ethernet, always have, although this new Pavilion tower is one of the current breed where they're beginning to fit wireless chips into desktops, in addition to Ethernet. We did eventually obtain success; Ozsouth did some research - and a lot of digging-around - and eventually unearthed the source code for the wireless chipset in this thing. He compiled me a driver for it; I ran some tests over a short period of time, and eventually came to the conclusion that it re-connected reliably every time. That driver module is now included in the most recent 'point' release Phil put out for Bionicpup64, so we achieved something in the end!

(It's one of those weird 'combo' chipsets; runs both wireless AND Bluetooth, and forums all over the net have been full of folks who've had issues with these things ever since they came onto the market a few years ago.)

Curiously, Bionic is the only Puppy I've ever had this trouble with. Every other Pup has simply connected straight away, and been as good as gold. Perhaps that's what it will take; somebody digging out the right source code, and getting a kernel driver module compiled for you....

Go figure.

Mike. )

[Jeff-X]

I hope it's not that severe. I'm thinking it's just Nouveau is hardheaded and won't truly unload.
I see someone else has come to the same conclusion as me:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=102102
quote:

"The problem with installing the nvidia driver is the

nouveau driver. Nvidia won't install if nouveau is running.

There seems to be a glitch that you can't run a plain vesa,

unaccelerated driver, it always forces the nouveau on you,

which makes nvidia not work."
This is what I see happening as well. I leave the desktop via

command prompt and type in xorgwizard and then I select a

different driver, which of course is Vesa. Then it returns to

desktop and when I confirm what driver is loaded it does

report Vesa is running, but it ALSO says Nouveau is running

the acceleration! So Nouveau is not unloading right? It's a

driver conflict right? So how do I force it to stop running

nouveau? ...or am I barking up the wrong tree here?
Thanks everybody

[bigpup]

By the way, I downloaded the newest file from Nvidia for my

hardware that claims to have fixed all issues.
Do I now take them one at a time from newest to oldest until I

get lucky? ...maybe?

The newest driver Nvidia recommends is best.

DO Not Have More Than One Nvidia Driver Installed.

The processes in Puppy, for selecting driver to use, will not know which one to use.

Assuming you got the correct Nvidia driver run package.
You got it compiled and installed.

In the process when it reboots and goes to Xorgwizard.
You will probably need to type in Nvidia in the driver selection slot.
It will not be in the list of drivers.
Set a good resolution.
Complete Xorgwizard.
At the prompt.
Enter xwin.
That should get to working desktop and using the Nvidia driver.

[bigpup]

When you run Getnvidia program.
Does it have all listed items marked with OK, before you go with the final steps of compiling the driver?
If an item is not marked OK.
That needs to be done before you can compile driver.

Screenshot.jpg (33.41 KiB) Viewed 1093 times

[Jeff-X]

Hey Bigpup thanks so much.

No my Getnvidia screen says:
Space -OK
devx - OK
Kernel - OK
No nouveau - PROBLEM (exact words I'm not sure, but it's still

loaded)

Then there are instructions that Nvidia conflicts with Nouveau

and I'll have to reboot and uload Nouveau and this window

supplies a BUTTON at the bottom of the screen that says

something like "Reboot now".
So first time around I just loaded in the Nvidia .run file in

the space provided and clicked the reboot button.
The result is, it kicks me over to my ONBOARD chip instead of

the nvidia card and the two TVs on the NMvidia card are blank

but I have th screen on the onboard chip monitor to choose

xorgwizard, reset driver, resolution, type in driver which I

tried typing "nvidia" one time. nothing. So then I chose Vesa

from the list. Nothing as well. Then I tried reset sorg.conf

to default. That didn't even work.
So back to the old drawing board.
I delete my savefile and copy my backup back in and reboot.
Then I Googled how to force stop nouveau driver and found this

guy's website and instructions about Puppy:
http://www.lightofdawn.org/wiki/wiki.cg ... aDriverSFS

He says,
"(Puppy Linux only) Because of a bug, you need to delete /tmp

and re-create it. Run the command

rm -f /tmp; mkdir /tmp

Create the blacklist file to stop nouveau from being loaded:

echo "blacklist nouveau" > /etc/modprobe.d/nouveau.conf"

So I did what he said in this segment of his instructions.
Then I went back to your instructions and setup everything

again to run Getnvidia, and got the same old thing about

nouveau being an issue. So I exited to commandpromt and chose

Vesa. I then confirmed vesa was running in the report

generated in Puppy once I got back to desktop, but it oddly

mentions nouveau as well running acceleration? Not sure...
Nevertheless, when I fire up Getnvidia it's the same old

thing.
I click the reboot button provided to reboot and shut down

nouveau, but what happens is the screens go blank once it

reboots and kicks everything over to onboard screen again.

Sorry for being a pain my friend. Maybe this will be helpful

for other folks in the future thogh. Right?
ty ty ty ty !!!

[Jeff-X]

Latest attempt. I found this from here http://murga-

linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=102102

"The problem with installing the nvidia driver is the nouveau

driver. Nvidia won't install if nouveau is running. There

seems to be a glitch that you can't run a plain vesa,

unaccelerated driver, it always forces the nouveau on you,

which makes nvidia not work.

You can work around this issue by using the boot option

nouveau.modeset=0 This keeps the nouveau driver from being

used. After bootup you can unload the nouveau driver by typing

rmmod nouveau in a terminal."

The result was, the computer won't boot exactly as before when

I clicked "reboot computer" in the Getnvida app.
Apparently without nouveau it won't boot at all and sends me

to onboard card and no choice of using Vesa or anything else

in xorgwizard will get it to boot.
So then, fix=nox and do it the hard way by typing stuff the

old text way?

[Jeff-X]

*or* can I create an SFS or PET file without having to install at that moment and not requiring nouveau to be unloaded right then, and then instead install without graphical desktop via pfix=nox,nouveau.modeset=0?
Then install the PET or SFS from there somehow?

[Jeff-X]

@bigpup and Mike, So since our previous conversation I've all sorts of
bright ideas and suggestions.
The most success I've had so far is almost installing nvidia

from
commandline directly using only the nvidia*.run file without

graphical desktop and with nouveau blacklisted and also by

using the getnvidia as well from commandline without graphical

desktop and nouveau blacklisted.

getnvidia runs and everything shows as OK except it claims

there is no NVIDIA*.run file when in fact I have several of

them sitting right there in /mnt/home with various names. I

have the file there as it's original name and I copied it as

simply NVIDIA.run and I have the tar gz version as well of the

same exact driver, hoping it would see something at least...

IF I were in the desktop version of the Getnvidia program I'd

use the browse tool to select the Nvidia*.run file, ***but

even from there it initially says there's no Nvidia source

file .run and even after I select it it still shows the red

writing bitching about it.

FYI, each time I try this I always begin with a fresh save

file from backups. There's no monkey business going on here.

No other Nvidia installs or whatever are present. It's a clean

savefile.
Any idea what's going on here?

By the way my previous hurdle was to make noueau shut the heck

up. Mission accomplished !!!
All I had to do was blacklist it via

system>boot>modules>blacklist.
I am learning but It will not boot to desktop now at all once

I blacklist it, BUT it does allow Getnvidia to give me the OK

on the nouveau issue, and everything else is OK status as well

but it says the Nvidia package is not present when It most

definitely is right there.

I've been banging my head over this all night and again this

morning.

Hmm do I need to chmod +x NVIDIA*.run file at commandline?
I'll try that right now.'
Off I go to delete save file from /mnt/home, then replace it

with fresh one, reboot, sfs_load the two sfs files, install

Getnvideo again, blacklist nouveau, reboot and since there

will be no desktop and commandline will appear on onboard

display, I'll hunch down in the floor with my wireless

keyboard ad type in cd /mnt/home>chmod +x NVIDIA.run and the

I'll type getnvidia

Cya on the next episode of Jeff-X tries to figure out how to

install Nvidia driver on Bionicpup32.
Laterz

[bigpup]

No my Getnvidia screen says:
Space -OK
devx - OK
Kernel - OK
No nouveau - PROBLEM (exact words I'm not sure, but it's still

loaded)

Then there are instructions that Nvidia conflicts with Nouveau

and I'll have to reboot and uload Nouveau and this window

supplies a BUTTON at the bottom of the screen that says

something like "Reboot now".

That reboot now is suppose to reboot the computer and unload the nouveau driver.

Start Getnvidia again and it should show OK for the nouveau line.

If you placed the nvidia driver run package file in /mnt/home
To navigate to it and place it in the input slot.
Click on the search button.
Navigate to file system /mnt/home
Should see the Nvidia run file to select.

Note:
Before tying this again.
look in Puppy Package Manager(PPM)
PPM->Uninstall.
If you have any Nvidia drivers listed.
Uninstall them.

Do this with only the computers monitor hooked up.
When you get the Nvidia driver being used.
You can hook up the second monitor/TV.

I am assuming this computer only has the Nvidia graphics card to supply graphics.
If it has some other internal graphics hardware.
Go into the computers bios and disable that.
So only the Nvidia card can supply graphics.

[Jeff-X]

Hey bigpup. You said,

I am assuming this computer only has the Nvidia graphics card to supply graphics. If it has some other internal graphics hardware. Go into the computers bios and disable that. So only the Nvidia card can supply graphics.

*No, it has onboard chip as well. Bios has only selection for auto or onboard graphics. It is set to auto. It's working correctly though. It only kicks it to the onboard chip/screen when nouveau is unloaded becauae Vesa fails to run the NVIDIA, but Vesa runs this NVIDIA card fine in Slackopup32 "533".
So something is wrong with the Vesa that won't boot this hardware in Bionicpup32 because someone broke something way back when Nouveau was deployed on us all.

So to be clear I understand your thinking, i'd think the same thoughts if I were in your position, but it's the Nouveau/Vesa/kernel which is broken, not the user and not the computer. I am loading a new fresh save file every time. Why? Because running Getnvidia makes my save file unusable, as it's only recource is to use Vesa, which is broken. So when it fails to run my hardware with Vesa, which is broken, it auto sends the screen to the onboard chip/monitor instead showing me only the X prompt. I tak advantage of that and type in Getnidia. It shows the no nouveau issue is good to go with an OK. Everything OK in fact except it won't load the .run file because since I'm not at the desktop with the nifty browse button I can't select it. I tried Getnvidia -help and --help and I tried Getnvidia followed by the .run file name just guessing at how to select the .run file from X black screen prompt but couldn't find a solution.
Do you know how to select the .run file from X command line prompt? If so maybe that's the solution.
I realize it would have to be running on the NVIDIA card and not the onboard chip, but if I simply did a no graphical desktop boot I will be at the X prompt and can run Getnvidia from there is there's a way to select the .run from that console !!!! <----!!!! THAT would be the shiznit.
Alternatively are there instructions posted somewhere howto install NVIDIA-*.run AT X PROMPT without Getnvidia? Thanks in advance for either.

Everything you said is pretty much what I was expecting the program getnvidia to do the first time I ran it. I thought, wow, somebody has figured all of this out and built an app that does it all for you. Awesome! Well I'm sure that is the case for some puppys but not Bionicpup32, not the newest slacko32 7.0 and not for xenialpup32.
Here's why or better said here's what I've discovered the hard way. older slackopup32 "533" boots right up perfectly and it shows no nouveu anywhere at all. What driver is running you ask? Vesa. the video even works pretty good but I don't think there is any acceleration running but forget bout that part for a second and focus on what I'm communicating to you. Slacko 533 boots this motherboard and the geforce fx 5500 wthout any issues. HOWEVER once they started forcing nouveau and to their credit nouveau is SUPPOSED TO BE the open source driver developed specifically for NVIDIA AND NOTHING BUT NVIDIA but in reality Vesa driver already did a better job in the first place.
So now, even though Xenialpup32 is my goto OS for puppy, but I can't use it because when you select new driver at XORGWIZARD promt it does not actually change it to Vesa. It still loads nouveau AND IF YOU BLCKLIST NOUVEAU Vesa will not work at all.
Dude. Somebody BROKE Vesa. Period and they are continuing to use that broken code in all puppys ever since that change was made. Mark my word on this. So what can be done then? Use a kernel from slackopup 533?
Looks like Mike kind of hit the nail on the head and you are exactly right too bigpup, but because the damn this is broken it just ain't gunna work the way it SHOULD work.

So as far as I have gotten is to get ALL of the "OK"s to light up on getnvidia app while in the X prompt screen, except for the very last one showing it has not found the NVIDIA-*.run file
That's when I gave up and said hell just just focus on nouveau since it's forced on me, but hell let's focus on Vesa if there's a way to fix it, but as of now, Vesa if BROKEN.
Vesa is broken in at least Xenialpup 7.5 32-bit, Bionicpup 8.0 32-bit and Slackopup 7.0 32-bit and there are probably others with this same broken Vesa driver issue.
This is the WHY of our question "why isn't Getnvidia" working right?" BECAUSE when it unloads Nouveau there's no place to goto except for for X command prompt screen.
So my attempt was just type in Getnvidia. It tries to work but it won't load the .run file for other strange reason. I can run the .run file without Getnvidia via bash. It looks good until the very end when it reports it could not build the kernel driver. So i'm sure this is why you good folks and shinobar made the Getnvidia app.
I've been using Xenialpup for a very long time. the only reason I am not trying to use it on THIS PC is when it boots Xenialpup the actual desktop screen once loaded flashes on and off and on and off, over and over at about the same rate as a car turning signal. In addition to this behavior it also goes black and white on second screen exactly when kernel modules are loaded during boot time just like Bionicpup and so does the newest Slacko32 7.0...
So I put my old Bionicpup32 disk in and sure enough it loaded right up, except that during boot right when it says loading kernel modules the second screens pretty purple and green text that is being rendered by the bios with no problem suddenly goes black and white at that point forward and stays that way.
It is ALSO right at the moment when the kernel modules are loaded that the everything goes dark when I blacklist nouveau or when Getnvidia prevents it from loading nouveau.
In both of these two examples what should happen is Vesa should kick in and work like it did back in the slackopup 533 days well before nouveau was implemented and deployed on us all. LOL
Can I downgrade my Vesa version somehow? Can I get an older version of THAT?
Vesa/nouveau is the problem here. Something has been broken for a long time, yall just didn't know it until now.
You're welcome! haha
Thanks bigpup and everybody. Me loves me puppys messes and all.
Later

[bigpup]

About trying to compile and install the Nvidia driver into Bionicpup32.
I am going to guess you have been trying to use the NVIDIA-Linux-x86-173.14.39-pkg1.run or similar.
This is a catch 22 thing.
That driver is so old, that the stuff it is wanting to use to compile, is no longer in Puppy Linux or is so new a version, that the driver compiling does not see it.
To get into Bionicpup, what the driver compiling is looking for, is going to be a big hunting trip into Linux software.
Not really something you want to get into doing, if it can be done at all.

[Jeff-X]

**** PROBLEM SOLVED ****

At Puppy boot menu press the Tab key on your keyboard and add an additional space right after the word vmlinuz and type in the following:
nouveau.tv_norm=NTSC-M
Followed by another space and leaving the rest of the sequence intact.
Press the Enter key and Puppy will now boot up and your monitors and TVs will all operate as they should have in the first place.
e.g.
.linux vmlinuz nouveau.tv_norm=NTSC-M pmedia=cd initd=initd.gz

This will fix your Nvidia + Nouveau TV output rolling screens and black and white screens for older TVs, VCRs and older devices in general I suspect.
Why you ask? Well, NTSC is the video standard commonly used in North America and most of South America.
However PAL, which is the DEFAULT setting in Nouveau, is the video standard which is popular in most of Europe and Asia.
Nouveau is the French word for "New".
So the developers who chose PAL as the default in Nouveau I'm guessing speak French and live in France or another European country and all their TVs, even the old ones, are all PAL video standard.

So hey kids, lets's get this issue published somewhere so guys like me don't have to spend 4 days trying to figure out how to get their TV plugged into Nvidia hardware using the Nouveau driver, which is quite common in tons of Linux distributions mind you, TO FREAKING WORK RIGHT!

Publish this somewhere please guys.

Anyway, the parameter is "tv_norm" without the quotes.

In my example I used NTSC-M

Here is the list of choices you could use from https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/KernelM ... eters.html which lists all Nouveau kernel module parameters.

Default TV norm. Default is PAL. Valid values: PAL, PAL-M, PAL-N, PAL-Nc, NTSC-M, NTSC-J, hd480i, hd480p, hd576i, hd576p, hd720p, hd1080i.

I've tested both NTSC-M and NTSC-J and both render color and stop the rolling screen of the old television/VCR.

bigpup, I've seen you around for many years helping folks with Puppy and I'm sure your posts have helped me many times as well over the years. Thank you! I see you even researched which driver I needed to be using. Thank you and Mike and Barry K and everybody for making Linux fun to use!!! Me loves me Puppys, messes and all.

I told ya it would be some simple setting somewhere. It ALWAYS is!
It just took me longer to find it than usual this time.

The goal was to get color to my black and white second s-video Nvidia Geforce FX 5500. Problem SOLVED!

I'm done for now.
Hopefully this will help someone else who is still using old hardware and old TVs and VCRs and so on.

IF and when I do get the Nvidia driver to work too, I'll add it as a reply here. Oh yeah and bigpup remember the .run file wasn't being found in /mnt/home? I copied it to /root and it found it just fine.
So root root it is! Whatever. Let's post that to the instructions too then right? Just add in if it is not found place it in /root even though it's within the save file system.

So anyways thanks again and please post this somewhere not so cluttered and concise to the point please sir. Would ya?

Everybody use your heads. Think for yourself. This covid thing. Stay safe ok?

Bye for now

Jeff-X

[bigpup]

jeff-x,
Glad you found an answer to the problem and fixed it.
You need to be the person to make a how to topic for this fix.
You understand it better than we do.
Suggest you put it here:
viewforum.php?f=148
Board index->House Training Instructional HOW-TO Section-> Graphics/Video

About finding stuff in /mnt/home
There is no reason why you had any problem finding stuff placed there.
Something you had to be doing wrong.
Usually in the input search windows. You have to navigate to file system and /mnt/home.
You will see home directory, before you navigate to /mnt/
That is not the same home as /mnt/home
Puppy has two home directories, located in different places in the file system, and totally different directories.

Screenshot(1).jpg (60.6 KiB) Viewed 1040 times

Running Fossapup64 9.5. I just compiled a Nvidia 455 driver, with the driver run package located in /mnt/home, using getnvidia program to do it.
I also tried to compile the Nvidia 173 driver in Bionicpup32 8.0, using getnvidia, with the driver run package located in /mnt/home.
Had no problem finding the driver package, but as I already stated, it would not completely compile.

Thanks for the information about nouveau.
I learned something!

[bigpup]

If you are booting Puppy installed on a drive that can be written to. Not a CD/DVD.
You can edit the entry in the boot loader config file, to add nouveau.tv_norm=NTSC-M
Then when you boot and select that boot menu entry. The command is already there and will be used.
The boot loader config file depends on the boot loader being used.
It will be one of these files:
grub.cfg
syslinux.cfg
menu.lst
isolinux.cfg
Open in a text editor to make changes.

[Jeff-X]

It's true though about the /root and /mnt/home. I mean suspend your disbelief but it is true I know the difference between /home aka /root and /mnt/home and these files have all been sitting in /mnt/home and browse did find the file just fine while at desktop but it still didn't "load". meaning it still reports it "not found". I just copied it last night to /root for kicks and giggles and to my amazement when I fired up getnvida it found it.
I don't know why but it's a fact and I have made peace with it .
Where I got stuck on installing the driver in my case is that once I click the reboot computer button and it unloads nouveau Vesa won't load the Nvidia hardware at all. Not even for an X command prompt. The screen goes blank and I can't do it from the onboard chip because Nvidia hardware must be in use while it compiles and installs the hardware.So this would not happen in Slackopup32 533; Vesa runs it like a champ in Slackopup32 533.
**** Somebody BROKE Vesa when Nouveau was deployed upon Puppy ****
Nevertheless, nouveau is working correctly now.

So Nouveau is actually fine here. It is Vesa that is stopping Getnvidia app from operating correctly. If could repair Vesa I could install Nvidia via the Getnvidia app, but because it IS broken this is the whole reason it will not work.

I'll get an itch to get nivida driver loaded on a separate save file eventually.
If you don't believe me about the root root I'll make GIF or a video. hehehe
It's pretty crazy.
Could all this strange behavior be because I am booting from CD/DVD? the Vesa isn't loading from save file maybe? *** and *** the /mnt/home thing as well???
Nevertheless it is a fact and I have made peace with it.

On the how to for getting nouveau to American NTSC, yeah, imagine that, all these folks using European PAL and don't even know it.

Good point about saving nouveau.tv_norm=NTSC-M to the boot loader file.
I'll put that in there as well, even though with this computer, it won't boot from usb even with newest bios update. So I have use cd/dvd and type it in.

Good chatting with you and thanks again all and thanks for your patience!

Laterz

[bigpup]

Good point about saving nouveau.tv_norm=NTSC-M to the boot loader file.
I'll put that in there as well, even though with this computer, it won't boot from usb even with newest bios update. So I have use cd/dvd and type it in.

You could use the program menu->Multimedia-> ISOmaster iso file editor
Use it to edit the boot loader config files in the Bionicpup32 iso.
Have it make a new Bionicpup32 iso with the edited files in it.
Use that new Bionicpup32 iso to burn a new CD/DVD

When you have the program showing the contents of the original iso.
You can right click on the bootloader config file (grub.cfg) and select edit.
May have to go into isomasters options and tell it what editor to use.

[Jeff-X]

Awesome. I was wondering if that could be done. I see there is

a nouveau.conf file as well. I tried editing that that several

times and once I was sure it was having no effect after

several edits and restarts I tried applying the line to the

boot screen which worked. So if we could get the nouveau.conf

to work as well you folks could change all future puppies to

NTSC and I could add it to my newly burned Bionicpup32 CD.
ya know the developers of nouveau did a good job and can't

blame them for choosing Pal since it's the standard where they

come from. Their TVs, VCRs and everything but it would have

been nice if it was a major headline for folks using the

driver in kernels and such.

All I tried was the line tv_norm=NTSC-M and some other

choices.
I'll try instead the entire line I put into the puppy's boot

screen.
Maybe that's the ticket.

Thanks for showing me how to make the custom CD/DVD bigpup
Thanks for all the education on Getnvidia too even though

there are issues with Vesa preventing it's completion.
Oh and a little while ago I ran into Firefox bug with Bionic.

No sound. LOL
I was just reading some instructions you were giving someone

else a year or so ago...

Thank you!
Later

[bigpup]

it won't boot from usb even with newest bios update. So I have use cd/dvd

The clue about /mnt/home
The filesystem has no /mnt/home until you make a save and boot using it.
So, if you boot not using the save, there is no /mnt/home.

[amethyst]

it won't boot from usb even with newest bios update. So I have use cd/dvd

The clue about /mnt/home
The filesystem has no /mnt/home until you make a save and boot using it.
So, if you boot not using the save, there is no /mnt/home.

Do the new Puppys still have /mnt/home as symbolic link to /initrd/mnt/dev_save when using a savefile/folder? I don't use new puppys nor a savefile/folder but last time I checked I couldn't find any reference to /mnt/home, it's just /initrd/mnt/dev_save now it seems.

Edit: Okay just checked with Bionic to satisfy my curiosity. The partition with the save file is indeed called/named /initrd/mnt/dev_save (unlike the older puppys where it was called /mnt/home) but the /mnt/home link is still there when checking in /mnt of the system. So the /mnt/home link seems superfluous then (and dare I say confusing for new users). This is with a harddrive partition so don't know if different with a usb flashdrive.

[mikewalsh]

@Jeff-X :-

Everything you said is pretty much what I was expecting the program getnvidia to do the first time I ran it. I thought, wow, somebody has figured all of this out and built an app that does it all for you. Awesome! Well I'm sure that is the case for some puppys but not Bionicpup32, not the newest slacko32 7.0 and not for xenialpup32.

Mm. I've just installed the most recent 32-bit Nvidia driver (390.138) for my GeForce GT 710 under Xenialpup 32-bit. Like you, I too get the "no RUN file found" thing before re-booting.....but upon re-booting, and after the screen has settled down under the VESA driver (and GetNvidia starts up), it then gives me a solid line of "OK"s.....good to go.Drop out to the command prompt, type in "getnvidia", and.....off she goes, and does her thing. Re-start "X" with "xwin", and there we are with the Nvidia driver up-and-running.

You don't see that solid line of "OK"s until AFTER re-booting. Won't your Nvidia card display at all under VESA? It certainly should.

This HP Pavilion tower is running a dual-core w/HT (like a quad-core, really) Pentium Gold G5400 @3.7 GHz. It has a built-in Intel UHD610 GPU, but it won't use it unless I physically swap the HDMI lead over to the in-built GPU's port on the back. While the GT 710 is plugged-in to the PCI-e slot, the onboard GPU is disabled. This is probably controlled from the UEFI/BIOS, although I've never actually bothered to check; since it's behaving as expected, I belong to the school of thought that says "Leave well alone"..!

The only reason I'm using a separate card is because the onboard GPU poaches system RAM to use as VRAM, and this way it uses its own 2 GB of GDDR5 VRAM.....leaving me with all my system RAM for Puppy's use instead. The GT 710 is no better than the UHD 610; similar number of shader cores, pixel pipelines, ROPS, etc, and running roughly the same clock & memory speeds. It's all about "resource allocation" for me.

Mike.

[bigpup]

Okay just checked with Bionic to satisfy my curiosity. The partition with the save file is indeed called/named /initrd/mnt/dev_save (unlike the older puppys where it was called /mnt/home)

That got corrected back to being /mnt/home in the newer Puppy versions.
Is /mnt/home in Fossapup64 9.5
/mnt/home is still a symbolic link to /initrd/mnt/dev_save.
But in Rox, it shows as /mnt/home (the name of the symbolic link) not the link target, as it got changed to in Bionicpup and some others.

[Jeff-X]

Good news. I mentioned that my favorite Puppy is Xenialpup

because all of my apps work. I like Bionic and I LOVE

Fossapup. I run Fossapup on a 2 year old Lenovo Laptop that

NOTHING would run on except the win10 that I immediately

formatted and erased. I couldn't get any of the popular newer

Linux distros to work at all until I found, of all things

EasyOS. Good old Barry K comes through as usual and sure

enough it worked but would not operate the touch pad. Then

Fossapup came out and it is PERFECT for that laptop.

Everything works hardware wise, but Xenialpup does everything

I need software wise *on a 32-bit machine* so far anyway until

it's "end of life". Anyway, as I mentioned I went with Bionic

because Xenial had worse hardware problems than Bionic seemed

to have. It had a black and white 2nd TV screen too AND it

kept blinking on and off at about the rate of a car turning signal.

I had a suspicion that it was due to the Bios of the computer

only having selection for "Onboard" video or "Auto". Meaning

you can't exactly turn the onboard video completely off. Even

though Bionic did not have any issue with this bios setting I

went with my gut and sure enough it occurred to me that I read

something Bigpup wrote to somebody in I think 2015 or so when

Bigpup wrote that not only can you disable NOUVEAU with

nouveau.modeset=0 but you can also disable INTEL with i915.modeset=0.

So I typed in the kernel module parameter:
i915.modeset=0 nouveau.tv_norm=NTSC-M ...at the boot screen,

and as I write this reply I am using this computer running Xenialpup through

rdesktop on my win8.1 laptop on my main display of Xenialpup/Nvidia card

while we're watching Let's Make a Deal through the other display

without a glitch or even a flicker.

This machine I'm using is a Dell Optiplex gx280 with 300ghz processor 32-bit,

4GB ram and a 400 bus and course the Nvidia Geforce FX 5500 graphics card

with VGA and S-Video outputs.

No more rolling screen on 2nd display and no more black and white!!!
Awesome!

I suppose a how-to should be done on the Xenialpup board as well as the

Bionic...

Thanks helping all those folks on the boards Bigpup. It helped me.

I would have never have thought there was a param to disable the onboard

chip as well. I thought the nouveau param was nouveau specific but I see now

it's a "KERNEL module parameter" Very cool.

Heya amethyst, yes I have been using a save file but thanks for your help!
Heya Mike thank you too but in my case when Getnvidia unloads Nouveau driver Vesa fails to work and I never get back to the desktop ever again. I end up at the X black screen command prompt. I then type in getnvidia but it failed.
I might be able to now though that I know how to kill the onboard video via i915.modeset=0 Bigpup knew this he just forgot he knew it
Thanks bro.

Thanks again and again and Laterz