Firefox issue with active field and focus indicator (highlight)

[Governor]

Scenerio:
I right click (in internet browser) on the file, choose download, select a destination folder. So far so good.
When I attempt to change the file name, I get a search box instead. The filename is highlighted, but the focus has shifted someplace else.
When the filename is highlighted, that is where the focus ought to be. IMO, if the focus is moved, the filename should not continue to be highlighted.
However, since a user is in the middle of saving a file, the focus (if temporarily changed) should return to the highlighted filename so the filename can be changed.
Thoughts?

[bigpup]

What specific browser?

Are you trying to change the name before the browser does the download?
If the browser is setup to ask where to save.
When it pops up the location choosing selection screen.
The name of the file will be highlighted.
All the browsers I use, will let you change the name, but you need to do the name change, and then select location to download it to.

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If you are trying to change the name in a file manager.
What file manager?

Is the file completely download to the location you choose to store it?

What size is the file you download?

No action should be able to do, until a file is completely downloaded.
It is not a complete file, until it is completely downloaded, and written to a location on a storage device.

[Governor]

What specific browser?

Are you trying to change the name before the browser does the download?
If the browser is setup to ask where to save.
When it pops up the location choosing selection screen.
The name of the file will be highlighted.
All the browsers I use, will let you change the name, but you need to do the name change, and then select location to download it to.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are trying to change the name in a file manager.
What file manager?

Is the file completely download to the location you choose to store it?

What size is the file you download?

No action should be able to do, until a file is completely downloaded.
It is not a complete file, until it is completely downloaded, and written to a location on a storage device.

In Firefox 128.5.2esr (64-bit).
AFAIK, a user is normally allowed to change the filename when downloading. If I need to change the destination folder, I can then no longer change the filename (unless I first click on the filename), even though the filename is highlighted. When a filename is highlighted, it means (or should mean) that is where the focus is and the filename can be changed immediately.

[N97]

FF128.5.2 is supposed to be a windows 11 fix. Try the latest 128.6.0
No D/L issues here, pick the location first, then rename with dbl-click.

[bigpup]

I am using Firefox 128.6.0esr 64bit

It does as I think governor is saying.

Sorry but this is an issue you need to post to Firefox.

I told you the way it works is to first change the name and then choose location to download to.

Choosing location first and then trying to change the name.
Firefox does keep the name highlighted, but at this point it should not.

It is a bug in Firefox, making you think because it is still highlighted, it is selected to take action on it.

[Governor]

I am using Firefox 128.6.0esr 64bit

It does as I think governor is saying.

Sorry but this is an issue you need to post to Firefox.

I told you the way it works is to first change the name and then choose location to download to.

Choosing location first and then trying to change the name.
Firefox does keep the name highlighted, but at this point it should not.

It is a bug in Firefox, making you think because it is still highlighted, it is selected to take action on it.

Yes, that's it. Sorry I said Rox, I was a little confused. I was thinking FF was partially using the file manager of the OS, I didn't realize FF has a complete file manager of its own.

[Governor]

What specific browser?

Are you trying to change the name before the browser does the download?
If the browser is setup to ask where to save.
When it pops up the location choosing selection screen.
The name of the file will be highlighted.

All the browsers I use, will let you change the name, but you need to do the name change, and then select location to download it to.

8<---snip
But that is not how things work in real life. When I download a file, I must first find which folder is appropriate and available, and/or create a new folder.

[mikewalsh]

In Firefox 128.5.2esr (64-bit).
AFAIK, a user is normally allowed to change the filename when downloading. If I need to change the destination folder, I can then no longer change the filename (unless I first click on the filename), even though the filename is highlighted. When a filename is highlighted, it means (or should mean) that is where the focus is and the filename can be changed immediately.

Well; Ok.....fair comment, I suppose.

However:-

In my experience, I.....along with many people I know (despite that the file-chooser will allow it) tend to always save downloads to a fixed location, and THEN move them on from there (if needed). I don't know TOO many folks that constantly & endlessly change the direction they send downloads in.

Maybe it's your way of doing things that is messing things up. The way you say do things sounds incredibly disorganized to me.....almost as though you react to things purely on "the spur of the moment". Do you organize your files in any way at all?

Remember something else, too. Puppy may have USED ROX for over 20 years.....but at the end of the day, it's no use bitching at US about it, because it's NOT 'our' project. We don't maintain it.

Mike.

[geo_c]

In Firefox 128.5.2esr (64-bit).
AFAIK, a user is normally allowed to change the filename when downloading. If I need to change the destination folder, I can then no longer change the filename (unless I first click on the filename), even though the filename is highlighted. When a filename is highlighted, it means (or should mean) that is where the focus is and the filename can be changed immediately.

Well; Ok.....fair comment, I suppose.

However:-

In my experience, I.....along with many people I know (despite that the file-chooser will allow it) tend to always save downloads to a fixed location, and THEN move them on from there (if needed). I don't know TOO many folks that constantly & endlessly change the direction they send downloads in.

Maybe it's your way of doing things that is messing things up. The way you say do things sounds incredibly disorganized to me.....almost as though you react to things purely on "the spur of the moment". Do you organize your files in any way at all?

Remember something else, too. Puppy may have USED ROX for over 20 years.....but at the end of the day, it's no use bitching at US about it, because it's NOT 'our' project. We don't maintain it.

Mike.

Don't know about Rox, or Firefox, but I have noticed the same kind of annoying operations with GTK3-4.

It has to do with opening a folder to save a file from any application using GTK. This may have something to do with what you're experiencing with Firefox which should be using GTK, right?

[Governor]

In Firefox 128.5.2esr (64-bit).
AFAIK, a user is normally allowed to change the filename when downloading. If I need to change the destination folder, I can then no longer change the filename (unless I first click on the filename), even though the filename is highlighted. When a filename is highlighted, it means (or should mean) that is where the focus is and the filename can be changed immediately.

Well; Ok.....fair comment, I suppose.

However:-

In my experience, I.....along with many people I know (despite that the file-chooser will allow it) tend to always save downloads to a fixed location, and THEN move them on from there (if needed). I don't know TOO many folks that constantly & endlessly change the direction they send downloads in.

Maybe it's your way of doing things that is messing things up. The way you say do things sounds incredibly disorganized to me.....almost as though you react to things purely on "the spur of the moment". Do you organize your files in any way at all?

Remember something else, too. Puppy may have USED ROX for over 20 years.....but at the end of the day, it's no use bitching at US about it, because it's NOT 'our' project. We don't maintain it.

Mike.

This behavior is a major annoyance, and I stand corrected, it is a FF issue, not a Rox issue.
BTW, please don't blame the user for GUI design flaws.

If a user has several files with similar names, they may need to check existing filenames to determine how the new file should be named before actually naming it.
A user may need to check which folders he has and create a new folder, in which case the focus will also not be on the highlighted file about to be downloaded.
I believe it is an accepted standard that a highlighted filename in a dialog box indicates where some action is supposed to take place.

Since you brought it up, and if I understand you correctly.... Why does Puppy use programs that Puppy coders have no control over, and is that a good idea?
How can one create a coherent and cohesive OS if there are a hodgepodge of programs and apps created independently by dozens of different programmers, each with their own concepts of how tasks should be done, and each with their own ideas of how options should be presented to the user?
Do you know who maintains Rox; is it abandoned software? I am not to stir up trouble, nope, not at all. I am asking because I am trying to understand,
Thanks!

[Wiz57]

In Firefox 128.5.2esr (64-bit).
AFAIK, a user is normally allowed to change the filename when downloading. If I need to change the destination folder, I can then no longer change the filename (unless I first click on the filename), even though the filename is highlighted. When a filename is highlighted, it means (or should mean) that is where the focus is and the filename can be changed immediately.

Well; Ok.....fair comment, I suppose.

However:-

In my experience, I.....along with many people I know (despite that the file-chooser will allow it) tend to always save downloads to a fixed location, and THEN move them on from there (if needed). I don't know TOO many folks that constantly & endlessly change the direction they send downloads in.

Maybe it's your way of doing things that is messing things up. The way you say do things sounds incredibly disorganized to me.....almost as though you react to things purely on "the spur of the moment". Do you organize your files in any way at all?

Remember something else, too. Puppy may have USED ROX for over 20 years.....but at the end of the day, it's no use bitching at US about it, because it's NOT 'our' project. We don't maintain it.

Mike.

This behavior is a major annoyance, and I stand corrected, it is a FF issue, not a Rox issue.
BTW, please don't blame the user for GUI design flaws.

If a user has several files with similar names, they may need to check existing filenames to determine how the new file should be named before actually naming it.
A user may need to check which folders he has and create a new folder, in which case the focus will also not be on the highlighted file about to be downloaded.
I believe it is an accepted standard that a highlighted filename in a dialog box indicates where some action is supposed to take place.

Since you brought it up, and if I understand you correctly.... Why does Puppy use programs that Puppy coders have no control over, and is that a good idea?
How can one create a coherent and cohesive OS if there are a hodgepodge of programs and apps created independently by dozens of different programmers, each with their own concepts of how tasks should be done, and each with their own ideas of how options should be presented to the user?
Do you know who maintains Rox; is it abandoned software? I am not to stir up trouble, nope, not at all. I am asking because I am trying to understand,
Thanks!

WHAT???? Not even Microsoft, Apple, Google, Samsung etc ad infinitum ONLY use software coded "in house"! Would you blame Apple if a MacOS user browsing the web with Google Chrome had difficulties? NO...you aim it at Chrome. If in MS Windows a user has an issue with IrfanView (just as an example, as IrfanView is one of my favs, hehe) does that mean the problem is in Windows, since they don't develop IrfanView in house.
As for Rox, I don't use it much as I prefer PCManFM for file management. All Linux distros are a "hodgepodge" of programs and applications...as is Apple MacOS/iOS, MS Windows, Google Android/ChromeOS.

[Governor]

8<---snip

WHAT???? Not even Microsoft, Apple, Google, Samsung etc ad infinitum ONLY use software coded "in house"! Would you blame Apple if a MacOS user browsing the web with Google Chrome had difficulties? NO...you aim it at Chrome. If in MS Windows a user has an issue with IrfanView (just as an example, as IrfanView is one of my favs, hehe) does that mean the problem is in Windows, since they don't develop IrfanView in house.
As for Rox, I don't use it much as I prefer PCManFM for file management. All Linux distros are a "hodgepodge" of programs and applications...as is Apple MacOS/iOS, MS Windows, Google Android/ChromeOS.

Yes but there is a big difference when professional PAID programmers at software companies work on projects. They must meet requirements set forth by the company, and they have specific goals and deadlines. What I see is a loosely knit group of Linux geeks, ie. developers/programmers (and enthusiasts) who generally do whatever they feel like doing with little consensus, and it is basically every man for himself.

As things are now, I see no vision or goal for Puppy except to remain a hobby OS among core users. I always seek to make things better, that is my nature and apparently, I can't help it. If the Puppy is to attract more users, then there must be a consolidated vision which includes a real determination to make the OS user-friendly for ordinary non-geek computer users.

@dimkr explained it well:
"Most of these developers are amateurs (not professional developers who either work or worked in the field) or professionals that don't do their hobby development with the same quality standards as the development work they do for living. You can call it 'professionally developed' but it's an empty statement because none of the processes, roles, etc' are actually there."
https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 53#p140453

[geo_c]

As things are now, I see no vision or goal for Puppy except to remain a hobby OS among core users. I always seek to make things better, that is my nature and apparently, I can't help it. If the Puppy is to attract more users, then there must be a consolidated vision which includes a real determination to make the OS user-friendly for ordinary non-geek computer users.

I hear you saying that the puppy community should grab the open source code from Firefox (not Rox, you should probably determine to fix your error in the original post and subject line) and fix the firefox file-save gui to your liking.

I am hearing you correctly?

[fredx181]

As things are now, I see no vision or goal for Puppy except to remain a hobby OS among core users. I always seek to make things better, that is my nature and apparently, I can't help it. If the Puppy is to attract more users, then there must be a consolidated vision which includes a real determination to make the OS user-friendly for ordinary non-geek computer users.

I can go with you up to a certain point, yes, some things need to be improved, but in this case you are wrong IMO.
The 'bug' you describe is not specially a Puppy thing (as said already by others) but a more general Linux thing (or better called, a Firefox/GTK thing).
Not sure, but I guess, with Firefox on e.g. Ubuntu it's the same.

EDIT: edited subject title now to "Firefox issue with active field and focus indicator (highlight)"

[Governor]

As things are now, I see no vision or goal for Puppy except to remain a hobby OS among core users. I always seek to make things better, that is my nature and apparently, I can't help it. If the Puppy is to attract more users, then there must be a consolidated vision which includes a real determination to make the OS user-friendly for ordinary non-geek computer users.

I hear you saying that the puppy community should grab the open source code from Firefox (not Rox, you should probably determine to fix your error in the original post and subject line) and fix the firefox file-save gui to your liking.

I am hearing you correctly?

No, I am not suggesting that. As pointed out, it is a Firefox issue.

[Governor]

As things are now, I see no vision or goal for Puppy except to remain a hobby OS among core users. I always seek to make things better, that is my nature and apparently, I can't help it. If the Puppy is to attract more users, then there must be a consolidated vision which includes a real determination to make the OS user-friendly for ordinary non-geek computer users.

I can go with you up to a certain point, yes, some things need to be improved, but in this case you are wrong IMO.
The 'bug' you describe is not specially a Puppy thing (as said already by others) but a more general Linux thing (or better called, a Firefox/GTK thing).
Not sure, but I guess, with Firefox on e.g. Ubuntu it's the same.

EDIT: edited subject title now to "Firefox issue with active field and focus indicator (highlight)"

Yes, my mistake, it is a Firefox issue. Thanks for correcting the subject line.

[williwaw]

I always seek to make things better, that is my nature and apparently, I can't help it.

some folks are working on pupsave backup things , but you seem to have left the room. have you made a github account and read the tutorial?

[geo_c]

Since you brought it up, and if I understand you correctly.... Why does Puppy use programs that Puppy coders have no control over, and is that a good idea?

8<---snip

WHAT???? Not even Microsoft, Apple, Google, Samsung etc ad infinitum ONLY use software coded "in house"! Would you blame Apple if a MacOS user browsing the web with Google Chrome had difficulties? NO...you aim it at Chrome. ... All Linux distros are a "hodgepodge" of programs and applications...as is Apple MacOS/iOS, MS Windows, Google Android/ChromeOS.

Yes but there is a big difference when professional PAID programmers at software companies work on projects. They must meet requirements set forth by the company, and they have specific goals and deadlines. What I see is a loosely knit group of Linux geeks, ie. developers/programmers (and enthusiasts) who generally do whatever they feel like doing with little consensus, and it.

I hear you saying that the puppy community should grab the open source code from Firefox (not Rox, you should probably determine to fix your error in the original post and subject line) and fix the firefox file-save gui to your liking.

I am hearing you correctly?

No, I am not suggesting that. As pointed out, it is a Firefox issue.

The above posts do seem to suggest that. They seem to possess a certain change of subject matter, or go off topic, especially the "8<---snip" part, which I'm still trying to figure out.

[MochiMoppel]

Yes, my mistake, it is a Firefox issue.

It is not a particular Firefox issue either. Try the "Save As" dialog in Geany, Leafpad, LibreOffice, LibreWolf .... and the list goes on. Looks familiar? It's a GTK3 issue.

Don't know about Rox, or Firefox, but I have noticed the same kind of annoying operations with GTK3-4.

GTK2 did a better job. In my elderly Pale Moon and my ancient Opera 12 the highlighting would not disappear, but the color would change to a light gray, indicating that the object lost focus. When activating one of the folders in the left "Places" pane, there could be in total 3 items in the dialog that are highlighted, but at any given time only 1 of them could have the full color of a focused item. This made it possible toTab or Shift+Tab between objects and always know where the focus it. It appears that keyboard operation is less and less a consideration when designing user interfaces.

Maybe GTK4 will bring back the GTK2 behavior:

Clicking on the file list will move the focus, but the selected part of the entry remains blue, making it look like the keyboard focus is still there. This has been changed in gtk4 and libadwaita though which now change the selection color to gray when not in focus.

[bigpup]

In Firefox 128.6.0esr 64 bit

I found it will do this.

Select a file to download.

If set to ask it opens a save selection screen.

Click on save and the save to window pops up.

If you select to create a folder to put it in and make that folder.

The file name is still highlighted and you can rename it by using the keyboard.

It seems this making a folder, when done, releases control back to the highlighted file name.

[MochiMoppel]

It seems this making a folder, when done, releases control back to the highlighted file name.

Only if you create a new folder in the presented download folder and only as long as you haven't selected or opened any folder that may exist in the folder list.

[dimkr]

@dimkr explained it well:

What I meant is, be the change that you want to see. If you can and want to improve something in Puppy, go ahead and do that, including the part where you convince developers to incorporate your changes in their distros. Puppy will become better and more 'professional' if you do a good job, and it will remain exactly the way it is (or worse, because unmaintained software breaks at some point) if you wait for others to do this for you.

[bigpup]

So the answer is first change the name and then select where it is going to be stored.

Until maybe Firefox does a fix to make it work differently.

[MochiMoppel]

Until maybe Firefox does a fix to make it work differently.

Once again: It is not a Firefox issue and there is nothing Firefox can do about it!

[bigpup]

OK.

So it is a GTK version thing or needed fix in GTK.

I tried it in some other browsers and seeing the same issue, if you select location to download to, and then try to change the name of what you are downloading.

But this does work.

Change the name and then select the download location.

sometimes it is just learning how the program works and not how you want it to work.