How to create a bootable SD card using Fossapup?

[bigpup]

That download problem was probably the repository server was down.
They do work on it sometimes.
It is at the University of North Carolina, US.
Those computer technology students all the time messing with it.

[bigpup]

when you start a fossapup session do you always have to manually connect (click on the connect icon). I though that once it was set up it would always automatically connect but I have noticed at time when I use a web browser and attempt to open a web site I get reminded that I am not connected.

If you are booted using the save and you saved your network setup.
The network connection should be using the setup you made.
Could be your internet providers issue.
Buggy driver.
Buggy hardware.
A lot of things could be causing this.
If it is WIFI, local interference.

Need to make a new topic if you want to try and figure it out.

[bigpup]

Did you ever get around to actually making a bootable SD card install?

[jarnie]

Thanks again bigpup.

I am now of the opinion that there is some problem with that PC that only affects usage with fossapup and the kernel.

I did exactly what you suggested THREE times and each time after doing everything as listed then at the end typed xwin at the prompt and pressed the enter key the screen went black for a short time then it displayed 'digital' then 'analogue' top left of screen as if it was connected to the PC but was searching for a digital or analogue signal then after a while the screen went completely blank. The PC was still operating and I had to press and hold the power up button to force it to power down so I never got a chance to save and reboot.

Remember that originally I never had a problem booting up using the nvidia card (and fossapup) and then I seemed to have problems with the PC as the BIOS settings became wrong (eg boot order etc) and I downloaded the latest BIOS motherboard version and reflashed the BIOS and then reset the CMOS settings. That fixed the PC to enable Windows to boot but fossapup then would not boot using the nvidia graphics card.
It's got to be a problem with the PC although it works ok with fatdog and fossapup no kernel.
Just what is the kernel and what is it there for?

I think it's time to forget it and I will either plug the monitor into the onboard graphics socket or select - no kernel from the boot menu. After all I only use that PC to test stuff and as a stand by PC.

I put aside setting up a boot SD card with partitions to enable it to be shared with Windows while I concentrated on the problem of not being able to boot fossapup using the nvidia card and will now get back to completing that setup.

Never had any issues with my isp and don't really know if the PC also now has connection problems using Windows as I hardly ever use the PC and only started to use it again to 'test' fossapup. I am using it to 'have a look' at fossapup and also to created the bootable SD card with partitions. It used to be my 'normal' PC until I got a faster one a year ago and so it is now sitting there just in case and/or to test stuff to prevent mucking up my 'normal' PC.

I will let you know soon how I got on with the SD card but don't expect to have any issues.

Thanks again

[jarnie]

I have decided to get a lend of my daughter's OLD PC (she just upgraded) and if it has a graphics card I will put it into my old PC and see if that makes any difference.
I had already looked in my box of 'treasures' for an old graphics card to try but I didn't have one.

Also I thought I would see if installation of nvidia 340 might solve this problem so I installed it and then immediately selected system>nvidia x server settings (there aren't any other nvidia apps in any menu) and it started but with an error displayed as follows -
You do not appear to be using the nvidia x driver. Please edit your X configuration file (just run 'nvidia-xconfig' as root, and restart the x server)

Does this have anything to do with installing the nvidia driver? Seeing the word 'server' makes me think of windows servers and don't know how it is used within linux and therefore have no idea if I should be setting it up or not.
If I do need ruin 'nvidia x server settings' then what do I need to do ie how do I run 'nvidia-xconfog' as root?

Thanks

[jarnie]

Something else I noted since manually setting to video driver to nvidia using xorgwizard during a fossapup64 9.6 no X boot.
I could not boot using fossapup64 9.6 no kernel.
I then did the exercise using xorgwizard to set the video driver to nouveau and 'no kernel' worked again.
Just reporting.

[bigpup]

The problems you are having seem to be very strange.
Fossapup64 9.5 is usually very good at just working.

If you install a Nvidia driver and you want to try a different Nvidia driver.
You must uninstall the first one by using Puppy Package Manager(PPM) uninstall.
Then install the other Nvidia driver.
Only Have One Nvidia Driver Installed.
The setup programs in Puppy do not know which driver you are asking to use, if there is more than one Nvidia driver installed.

If using Nvidia X server settings gave you a message the Nvidia driver is not being used.
Assuming you did actually get the Nvidia driver installed.
You did something wrong when you did what I said using Xorgwizard.

The thing is.
If you post stuff telling what is happening.
You do what?
You see what?
It is easy to spot something not correctly done.
Like when using Xorgwizard.
I do this.
I see this.
I then do this.
I see this.
Etc.....

[bigpup]

Remember that originally I never had a problem booting up using the nvidia card (and fossapup) and then I seemed to have problems with the PC as the BIOS settings became wrong (eg boot order etc) and I downloaded the latest BIOS motherboard version and reflashed the BIOS and then reset the CMOS settings. That fixed the PC to enable Windows to boot but fossapup then would not boot using the nvidia graphics card.

You are 100% sure you got the correct bios version?
Has the cmos battery ever been changed?
If it is more than 5 years old. It is probably needing to be changed.
The cmos battery is the button battery on the motherboard, someplace.

Go into the bios settings and see if it has anything dealing with graphics hardware and settings for it.
I would be guessing what may be there for settings.
Anything that would seem to affect using the Nvidia card.
Usually any settings that can be set to auto will usually work OK.

[bigpup]

It's got to be a problem with the PC although it works ok with fatdog and fossapup no kernel.
Just what is the kernel and what is it there for?

You are always using the Linux kernel.
That is the main part of the OS.

The Linux® kernel is the main component of a Linux operating system (OS) and is the core interface between a computer's hardware and its processes. It communicates between the 2, managing resources as efficiently as possible.

The kernel nomodeset is just an option for how the kernel is using graphics hardware.

What is Nomodeset in Linux?
Adding the nomodeset parameter instructs the kernel to not load video drivers and use BIOS modes instead until X is loaded.

Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) is a method for setting display resolution and depth in the kernel space rather than user space.
The Linux kernel's implementation of KMS enables native resolution in the framebuffer and allows for instant console (tty) switching.
KMS also enables newer technologies (such as DRI2) which will help reduce artifacts and increase 3D performance, even kernel space power-saving

It gets a little weedy, but basically KMS is the new way to do display as computer boots, if the graphics hardware and driver supports it.

[bigpup]

Please edit your X configuration file (just run 'nvidia-xconfig' as root, and restart the x server)

An X server is a program in the X Window System that runs on local machines (i.e., the computers used directly by users) and handles all access to the graphics cards, display screens and input devices (typically a keyboard and mouse) on those computers

.
That process I told you for using Xorgwizard is the Puppy program for doing what nvidia-xconfig does.
You are setting up the graphics settings for x server.

[jarnie]

Thanks
I will not answer any of your questions as I have FIXED the problem while checking all the CMOS settings (which you suggested).
Even though I had initial Display first set to PCIe slot I found that Intel Processor Graphics was set to enabled. I changed that to DISABLED and now fossapup boots correctly.
Obviously the m/b was outputting to BOTH the onboard graphics and the nvida card.
NOW this did NOT affect WINDOWS booting up but obviously Fossapup64 doesn't like it.
Also obviously it must have originally been disabled (when initially I had no problems) but when the PC did all those strange things (boot order changed without me doing anything causing Windows not to boot as it was booting from the wrong drive) I selected LOAD OPTIMISED CMOS settings ( the only load option available) and that set INtel Processor Graphics to enabled.

What an ordeal and you stuck by me which I am grateful for.

OK to get back to the original reason for the creation of this thread. I am stumped. Obviously I have a lot to learn about how fossapup and infact how Linux works BUT when I run Frugalpup it 'asks' for the location of the iso file (which I have on the bootable usb stick and I can see it when I select the drive at the bottom of the pinboard (screen). It opens an unknown location (unknown to me) and I can't work out how to navigate to the usb memory stick. I have found how to change 'drive' using Terminal 'mode' but that doesn't help me here.
Help please.

[williwaw]

in the file browser brought up by frugalpup, go up to the top level directory and look for sde1 (or whatever) in /mnt.

this is the directory where devices are mounted, so the usb icon in the lower left needs to be active (mounted)

[jarnie]

Thanks williwaw,
I tried that but sde1 (yes I only have the boot usb stick inserted) does not display. I wondered if perhaps I need to manually 'mount' it so ran pMount which seems to indicate that it is mounted but still it doesn't appear.
Wow this Linux is not very intuitive.
What do I need to do?

[williwaw]

use rox to navigate to the iso to verify if you can see the iso @ /mnt/sde1

then restart frugalpup in case the usb was not mounted when you began it the first time

screenshot of the iso in rox would help

[jarnie]

Thanks I have found it.
I was expecting to see an entry named sde1. I now find it is HOME. Easy once you have done it once and then know.
Once again I ask would having a Linux manual (there doesn't seem to be one for fossapup) eg Linux in easy steps, The Complete Reference (to) Linux etc.

[williwaw]

windows lists filesystems under devices, c: , d: etc being the top level

with linux everything is a "file" devices can be found in /dev, but when in use their filesystems are mounted somewhere in the linux filesystem. typically under /mnt (puppy) or /media (some distros) you could mount a device filesystem anywhere in the os filesystem you wanted. I found it easiest to learn my way around by accessing rox by the icon in the upper left. that is the filesystem as it exists while booted.

[jarnie]

Thanks williwaw
I feel that short 'tutorial' will go a long way to help me navigate the devices, folders, files in ROX.

[bigpup]

I have FIXED the problem while checking all the CMOS settings (which you suggested).
Even though I had initial Display first set to PCIe slot I found that Intel Processor Graphics was set to enabled. I changed that to DISABLED and now fossapup boots correctly.

Very Good!!!!!
I guess you have a motherboard that will not auto switch from Intel integrated graphics to a added graphics card.
Always seems the answer is a simple one.
My fault I did not warn you to check this.
Yes, Puppy only likes one graphics hardware at a time enabled.
Well, you learned some different ways to boot Puppy Linux and why these optional booting methods are in the boot menu.

Learning the file system layout is really something you just need to work with and learn as you do.
/mnt/home in Puppy is the place where Puppy is installed, the partition it is located in. Usually a frugal install.
Puppy has drive icons on the lower left desktop.
Click on one to mount it.
To the file system it is in /mnt/
Those desktop drive icons are a quick way to mont or unmont a drive.
Click on to mount.
Click on the small symbol upper right on the drive icon to unmount.
Right click on drive icon and select from the right click menu.

Puppy is all about you making choices on what happens.

The Linux file system is explained here:
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/l ... asics.html
Puppy Linux uses this basically, but has some things located the Puppy way.
These are the main Puppy differences from standard Linux file system.
/home ->this is used differently in Puppy. Puppy is single user you which is root user.
/mnt/home
/root ->usually shown as ~ the main (home) directory of you the root user.
Best way to see what is in them is to navigate to them and see.

[jarnie]

Thanks very much bigpup.
I will add your 'stuff' to my ever growing text file containing hints and how to do.

Now it's time to finish off creating the partitioned bootable usb memory stick and start trying out and putting to use your and williwaw's 'tuition'.

It's been in my blood for many many years to not give up easily when trying to solve PC problems and also debug faulty software and I have in the past debugged 'hooks' written to work (which didn't work correctly) with SAP (software for the management of business processes) when I used to work in the IT industry.

[jarnie]

SUCCESS
I have created the partitioned bootable usb stick and booted up successfully
I did notice some changes though.
In the Boot Menu (from the BIOS after pressing F12 key during POST) the name of the usb stick was not displayed as I was familiary with (eg sandisk ..).
There were the following extra options
Generic-Compact flash 1.01
Generic-USB3.0 CRW sd1.00
Generic-USB3.0 CRW sd1.00 (yes two the same)
I chose the first one of the last 2 as it included sd1.

The fossapup boot menu was very different. Not as many options, GRUB at the top (I have seen reference to GRUB before and have a little idea what it is) and the menu looked similar to the menu on pre UEFI PC BIOS setting screens eg mbr.

Later I tried selecting the second one thinking it might boot as UEFI but it resulted in Windows booting.

I then tested with Windows to ensure I can use the 3rd partition. It displayed the first partition sde1 and the first usb drive and the third partition as the next usb drive. I was hoping the I could use the third partition as the first drive letter used and wonder if I rename the drive letter in Windows would it prevent fossapup booting correctly?

It it would I will just put up with that and reinstall software on my small laptop to install to the second partition drive letter.

[williwaw]

bios = Basic Input Output System, a rudimentry "os", windows and linux all see the disc different and will assign different names to the partitions.

I expect windows to not even see your linux partition, so if you have 2 fat32 partitions. that what windows will report.

[jarnie]

Thanks for that info which I suspected would be the case.

I am 'poking' around to learn more about how the linux file system works and at times I cannot find the partitions on my SSD bootable card.
I select FILE (icon on the pinboard)
then selected the up arrow
then selected the mnt folder but neither sde1, sde2 or sde3 was listed. HOME was listed and when opened contained the files in sde2.
I ran Pmount but that didn't make any difference.
BUT when I rebooted it was there.
Is this another one of those 'things' you sometimes have to repeat to get to work?

[TerryH]

Thanks for that info which I suspected would be the case.

I am 'poking' around to learn more about how the linux file system works and at times I cannot find the partitions on my SSD bootable card.
I select FILE (icon on the pinboard)
then selected the up arrow
then selected the mnt folder but neither sde1, sde2 or sde3 was listed. HOME was listed and when opened contained the files in sde2.
I ran Pmount but that didn't make any difference.
BUT when I rebooted it was there.
Is this another one of those 'things' you sometimes have to repeat to get to work?

The partitions you have mentioned (apart from sde2) only have an entry in /mnt directory following them being mounted. In the screenshot I have included, you will notice that /mnt/home is a link to another directory /initrd/mnt/dev_save. This is the mount point for the partition containing the root of the currently running puppy. Clicking on the unmounted partitions I have will mount the partitions creating an entry in /mnt directory.

[jarnie]

Thanks,
I understand about those 3 partitions and that the 1st and 3rd are fat32 and the 2nd an ext partition which is not 'seen' by windows.
What I am stating is that I could NOT see sde1 even after I used pmount and closed FILE and then selected (ran) it again. It wasn't until I actually shut down the PC and restarted it before I could see sde1 and so wondered if FILE was like PPM in that it sometimes has to be run twice.

Now I am attempting to boot my laptop using the SD card I set up. Unfortunately my laptop (bios) only allows to boot using UEFI or LEGACY. Using legacy I can't boot to Windows and selecting uefi I can't boot using the SD card. I am hoping this is because when I set up the SD card from fossapup I selected BOTH (boot type) instead of UEFI. I will redo the SD card tomorrow.

[Jafadmin]

You must determine if your computer BIOS supports booting from an SD card. If there is no option for it in your BIOS "boot" menu, then you will not be able to boot the SD card from the built-in SD card reader. This is not an OS limitation. It is a hardware limitation.

That said, if you put the SD card into a USB card reader, it should boot just like any other USB drive since your computer's BIOS almost certainly supports booting from USB.

https://www.amazon.com/Reader-JSAUX-Mem ... 79&sr=8-18

[bigpup]

A drive partition is not going to show up in Rox file manager until it is mounted.
Use the desktop drive icons to first mount the partition.
Left click on the drive icon.
It should auto start Rox showing the contents of it.

To Linux filesystem, the partition will be located at /mnt/ when it is mounted.

If you mount or unmount a partition while Rox is running.
If you navigate to /mnt/
Click on the refresh icon on the Rox window.
That should update the /mnt/ directory as to what is mounted or unmounted.

[jarnie]

I didn't know that.
I (incorrectly) assumed that because a friend of mine with an older laptop can boot from SD that I could as well.
Having said that if I set the boot 'mode' to Legacy I CAN boot from the SD card so I am now assuming that if I create a bootable SD card with UEFI it will boot the laptop with boot type set to UEFI. I will be checking that out a bit later.

[bigpup]

Not necessarily.
Some computer bios's will not allow booting from some devices, unless you set it to legacy mode.

I have one that will not even see USB drives as bootable devices if it is set to UEFI.
In legacy mode it sees every drive as a possible bootable device.

Manufactures have some options for how they want their UEFI to work with external drives.

This UEFI stuff gets weedy, sometimes, with what works and how it does work.

[jarnie]

Thanks bigpup.
I will re create the SD with 3 partitioned using UEFI and see what happens.
If no go then I will use get one of those miniature usb memory sticks and create it as a fossapup bootable device (which I have done in the past with a full size usb stick). I can leave the miniature usb plugged in all the time for when the laptop 'goes to bed' in its travel case. I won't have any free usb ports then (one for the wireless mouse and one for the miniature usb memory stick) which probably won't be a problem.

[mikewalsh]

@jarnie :-

As bigpup has said, even after all these years there's still no real standardization for how manufacturers do (or don't!) decide to layout the operation of UEFI firmware on their machines. From what I remember, most of the older BIOS utilities were written/coded & supplied by third-party projects.

UEFI, on the other hand, gives a great deal of latitude to device manufacturers because, although still held within a chip on the motherboard, that particular chip is re-writable by anyone with the appropriate 'access' code. Older BIOS could also be re-written, in some cases, although it was more common for BIOS chips to be 'socketed' & removable from the motherboard......and thus replaceable by pre-written replacement chips if required.

One of the requirements for the UEFI standard - probably the only one adhered to by all - is that UEFI chips be permanently fixed to the motherboard. So any modifications HAVE to be performed 'in-situ'.

I've never yet come across any set-up where you can boot BIOS & UEFI devices from a common menu without having to at least go into the UEFI software to make that switch from UEFI to 'legacy' (or back).....even if you only do so from the 'Quick Menu' that many have available.

Mike.